VM120 Clone

[pommyphil]

4 Four Jaw 125mm Self Centering Lathe Chuck M33 Scroll Metal Mount Turning Wood | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/322486859479?ul_noapp=true)

Looks like only 33X3.5mm. Has anyone seen one ?

Phil

[Paul39]

Toward the bottom of the ebay page it talks about turning down the backing plate to fit the chuck. This makes me think they are not building to a standard. The machining on the side of the chuck jaw in the close up looks a little rough. That doesn't really matter there, but may or may not be indicative of how well the rest of the chuck is made.

I have a Penn State Industries chuck I bought barely used for $50, made in China, but has given me years of good service. I have three Oneway chucks, which I understand are number two in quality behind Vicmarc. The PSI chuck does as well, but I don't use it or the Oneways 40 hours a week.

How much cheaper than a used Vicmarc in good working condition?

Maybe an organization or group of turners could pitch some $$ together, shuck it apart and give an opinion.

I have seen a Sorby chuck that was directly threaded for 33 X 3.5

[NeilS]

Looks like only 33X3.5mm. Has anyone seen one ?



Thanks Phil for raising that option.

33X3.5mm is a more common woodturning lathe spindle thread size in Europe. 30X3.5mm is more common here. I've forgotten what thread size the VM and Nova chucks have to take their inserts, but if not 33X3.5mm then getting an insert for that chuck to fit your lathe may pose an additional challenge.

I would be inclined to look at the Gary Pye GP100 (with or without jaws) for the same price and with an insert included. The jaw compatibility is another plus for that chuck. I've not used one myself, but I've not heard any complaints on the forum about those. Someone with a GP100 may like to comment on its quality.



Stay sharp!

Neil

[jamesmcjim]

hi phil and neil
i brought the gp100with the 50mm jaws and insert at xmass. seems to good value have only used it about 20 to 30 times.only complaint i have was no grub screw to keep insert in chuck when taking off spindle so need spanner to suite insert ,or locktite insert into chuck.
cheers jim

[pommyphil]

Thanks for that Jim and welcome.

No Neil, not thinking of buying one, just curious. I've got a dozen or so chucks, mostly Vicmarc. I culled all the Novas but kept a couple of GPW which I think are a better chuck than Nova.

My lathes are 30X3.5mm and a normal insert would be impossible with only 3mm to play with. VM100 inserts are 40mm and VM120 are around 45mm. Cheers Phil

[NeilS]

No Neil, not thinking of buying one, just curious.

I thought that might be the case, Jim. My comments were more for any newcomers that might not be aware of some of the issues.

I've got a dozen or so chucks (me too, of various persuasions), mostly Vicmarc. I culled all the Novas but kept a couple of GPW which I think are a better chuck than Nova.

And, I expect better than those ones on eBay. They are 5"/125mm, so not the same size as the GP100, but the extra size may not be an indication that they can safely hold more than the GP100.

My lathes are 30X3.5mm and a normal insert would be impossible with only 3mm to play with. VM100 inserts are 40mm and VM120 are around 45mm. Cheers Phil

Yes, I was thinking more for those that might have a 1" x 8tpi spindle. But, getting an insert to fit may be a problem for them.

And, as for the wording on the eBay add that read:

...you will need to turn the shoulder down. To match the back of the lathe chuck to make the chuck & back plate more concentric with the lathe spindle.

... like Paul, those words rang loud warning bells for me.

Last thought is the compatibility of that chuck with VM and Nova jaws, or any others with a good range. For me the range of jaws that fit are an important consideration when buying chucks.

But, if anyone is brave enough to try one then, like Phil, I will be interested to hear how it works out.

[dr4g0nfly]

I have 2, quite heavily used for a couple of years and no complaints so far.

They take the SuperNova, VM and Sorby Jaw sets as well.

[hughie]

I use several of the early SN2 x 125mm and a couple of Titan x 125mm and they are my preference in chucks. Looking at this and looking at my lathe I dont really see the need to remove the shoulder and I am not sure why you would need to do so. Unless the shoulder is out of square, which would call into question whole manufacture of the chuck as to concentricity etc.
I think I would really need to see it first hand to make any real comment with confidence. I note that Dragonfly has a couple of them and made no mention of the need to turn down the shoulder or any other modification for that matter.


I have 2, quite heavily used for a couple of years and no complaints so far.
They take the SuperNova, VM and Sorby Jaw sets as well.

Looking at the title one would suspect the vendor is neither a wood turner or engineer but rather an entrepreneur. If this is so I would call into question some of the comments about machining the chuck. After all who would design and sell a chuck to a woodworker that needs an engineering lathe to modify it ?? As a sales concept, it beggars belief.
Ok I have just sent a question to vendor about the chuck, we shall see what transpires :)

[hughie]

Well I got answer, no answer to my question as to why anybody would need to machine the back of the chucks. Ok the reply came from China and the vendor appears to be based there. By the sounds of it has limited command of English and I would say less of wood turning.

[Fumbler]

Higher, I got the same response when I asked them to explain the need to machine the shoulder. He just replied with a cut and paste of the description. I may get a friend of mine to send a request in Chinese to get a better understanding. Will let you all know of the response.

[Paul39]

Well I got answer, no answer to my question as to why anybody would need to machine the back of the chucks. Ok the reply came from China and the vendor appears to be based there. By the sounds of it has limited command of English and I would say less of wood turning.

Standard practice on metal working lathe chucks new to your lathe is to screw the carefully cleaned backing plate on to the carefully cleaned and lightly oiled spindle, take light cut on the face to flatten, and another series of light cuts on the edge so it will fit tightly into the recess of the chuck.

With a three jaw scroll chuck we are looking for .002 inch total indicated runout or less. (TIR) To test your chuck you put a piece of ground rod in the chuck and put a dial indicator on the rod, rotate by hand and see how much the needle moves. .002 TIR is a VERY good three jaw chuck.

For more accuracy one uses a four jaw with each jaw adjusted independently.

Most timber will move more than .010 while you are having a cup of tea.

I expect the above vendor sells mostly metal working stuff and is not familiar with woodworking.

[chambezio]

The link that I have put up is for a 100mm 4 jaw chuck that Pen State Industries have on sale at the moment https://www.pennstateind.com/store/economy-4-jaw-chucks.html

Included is a set of bowl jaws all for 90 bucks + post. The photo is not good enough to answer specific questions but to me, it looks like it could be a design similar to early Teknatool chucks. I have bought some stuff from them over the last couple of years and they are pretty good with postage too.

Disclaimer....I am only a customer and have no ties to them at all.

[smiife]

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/economy-4-jaw-chucks.html[/URL]

Included is a set of bowl jaws all for 90 bucks + post. The photo is not good enough to answer specific questions but to me, it looks like it could be a design similar to early Teknatool chucks. I have bought some stuff from them over the last couple of years and they are pretty good with postage too.

Disclaimer....I am only a customer and have no ties to them at all.

Hi rod , seems like a good deal , but I think the postage is a killer......
The same as the chuck $90.00 ! :o:o:o

[Mobyturns]

I'm a firm believer that you only get the quality that you pay for. Sure a genuine bargain comes along every now and then, but you have to ask yourself "why is a new item so cheap?"

Sure the first part of the answer is that is manufactured off shore in a country with cheap labour relative to ours. Then there is the issues of cheaper materials, perhaps a few cost saving short cuts in other areas like tolerances in machining, fit, finish, hardening and the nicities of bur removal etc. Of course they don't do any R&D, only knock off anothers designs so lower overheads. Nor will they be about to support the product in the future or to honour any warranties. How about is it really a faithful copy? I have seen some dodgy machining of scrolls in cheap chucks and lots of swarf left in the internals.

If you can live with that then the knock offs may be suitable for you.

[hughie]

I'm a firm believer that you only get the quality that you pay for. Sure a genuine bargain comes along every now and then, but you have to ask yourself "why is a new item so cheap?"

Sure the first part of the answer is that is manufactured off shore in a country with cheap labour relative to ours. Then there is the issues of cheaper materials, perhaps a few cost saving short cuts in other areas like tolerances in machining, fit, finish, hardening and the nicities of bur removal etc. Of course they don't do any R&D, only knock off anothers designs so lower overheads. Nor will they be about to support the product in the future or to honour any warranties. How about is it really a faithful copy? I have seen some dodgy machining of scrolls in cheap chucks and lots of swarf left in the internals.

If you can live with that then the knock offs may be suitable for you.

Having written to the vendor for clarification on a few points and received several answers. Its obvious the vendor is a middleman who has no idea of what he/she is selling. Have look at some of the text under the heading of Features



Clamping quickly improve work efficiency
Reduce labor intensity to enhance corporate image ??
Simple structure easy to install
No need to use supplies investment in one step ??
Clamping force wide clamping range
High clamping accuracy Long service life
Security, reliability and strong


In all reality, this may well be the best chuck to stay away from. Because if you do have a problem, the English language factor will be against you and the vendor's total lack of knowledge on woodturning and engineering as well. As Moby points out all this and tyranny of distance it ain't likely the warranty will hold any water.

Caveat Emptor