Disposal of a lifetimes aggregation of tools

[Mobyturns]

The eventuality of life has hit home for some friends so I have offered to assist with the disposal of a local turners tools, accessories, project kits and machinery. The family have decided time to move on and wish to maintain privacy and a low profile through the sale process.


So I'm asking for a few tips and opinions on how to market the items, a guide to pricing the tools, and how to realize a fair return for them and potential purchasers. I'm personally interested in purchasing some items, however the remainder we wish tidy up & to dispose through the wood turning forums.


Generally the tools, chucks and accessories are all high quality but in need of some TLC as they have not been used in a number of years due to extended illness. A few tips on how to efficiently "renovate" and restore tools and chucks showing light surface rust would also be appreciated.


Robert Sorby is the predominate brand in the tool racks, with many tools and sets still in original packaging, though somewhat dusty etc, Most were gifts to the turner with many appearing unused. Sets include thread chasers, hollowing sets, spiralling tools, live centre kits etc.


Among the collection are eccentric chucks, and some very obscure items such as an RS3000 a Thompson-Oram designed Ornamental Turning Device circa 1995 which is a micro processor controlled OT cutting accessory to fit standard lathes. I will have a look at it to see if it is still a going concern. I have no idea of its original purchase price, or if it is a collectable or now simply dated IT based scrap.


A respected turner has given some advice to dispose of the collection as a singe lot of tools & accessories, with the machinery as separate items. The machinery is mostly spoken for so not really any issue. In my experience few purchasers are willing to offer a fair price for a bulk lot.


Typically we are thinking that for tools & sets in generally good condition with soiled packaging - about 50% of current RRP, then discounting for wear & condition for used tools.


Then there is the wood stash ......... some great blanks and a lot of firewood! At least we have a taker for the firewood.


TIA for your advice and guidance

Warning - be careful if Googling the RS3000 - there are a couple of links to very dubious sites with malware issues.

[Oddy]

A few tips on how to efficiently "renovate" and restore tools and chucks showing light surface rust would also be appreciated.
A great way to remove rust is with phosphoric acid. Its sold under various brands at car stores like Super Cheap Auto or Repco. One brand I know is "Rust Converter". Small stuff you can just soak in a tub of it, larger stuff like cast iron machinery tables you can wipe it on liberally.

[george mavridis]

Have a chat to Flidersia, he has been disposing of tools & supplies of a fellow woodturner over the past year or so. He will have advice abd tips plus what he found difficult about the process.

[truckjohn]

I wouldn't make any committment to "restore" tools. Its very time consuming and you may not get any return for it anyway.

I think I would make logical "packages" and put as much as possible on Ebay. Make it go away as fast as possible. The only caveat is to avoid competing with yourself... Dont offer 2 of the same thing in the same period. Wait a week or 2 and run the next lot.

Often - there is a very small local following for specialized stuff like this. Doing it on Ebay can give you a huge market... Even bigger if you are willing to ship international.

[hughie]

I agree with bulk quotes they do not take into account individual pieces worth and or quality. My experience is that such quotes driven by the 'quick buck'. The real issue is setting a price on each piece. The Ebay option although slow it will give a better return, but it is time consuming.

[Oddy]

Gumtree is a decent alternative to eBay these days also - ebay+PayPal have become very greedy with their fees.

[BobL]

I've dealt with about a dozen of these situations usually as a favour to friends and family, plus a similar number of deceased estate circumstances though the mens shed.

I agree about the following
- "for tools & sets in generally good condition with soiled packaging - about 50% of current RRP, then discounting for wear & condition for used tools."
- "I wouldn't make any committment to "restore" tools [or machines]. Its very time consuming and you may not get any return for it anyway."

The later often raises unrealistic expectations and then disappointment when/if returns are not envisaged.
A certain mens shed got caught out with this after making a commitment to a deceased estate situation. The shedders involved invested a large amount of time for very low returns to the estate.

Light surface rust can be taken off with steel wool and then the items can be lightly oiled and wrapped in cloth. I wouldn't be getting into Phosphoric acid level restoration as this would require "full disassembly-treatment-careful washing", which would not be worth the trouble.

One area of difficulty is if the person or relatives knows what the items cost (i.e. prices on boxes)and then expect unrealistic returns.
After a couple of sour events I began to generally play down expectations and if better than expected returns were obtained then it's a much nicer outcome.
Make it clear that although you will try for the "50% of current RRP, then discounting for wear & condition for used tools", but this may not happen.

I've cut right down on doing this sort of thing because I find selling stuff on gumtree and eBay a general PITA.

Good luck.

[woodPixel]

For my restorations, I use the kaatcher power blaster, a soak in SupaCheapAuto degreaser (buy in 5L bottles, it's amazing) then soak overnight in EvapoRust.

The results are amazing. By not washing the EvapoRust off, leaving it to simply dry, leaves a film that protects against future rust.

I agree with BobL though. Pre-restoration before sale is a lot of work. I did a few planes for a friend and I don't think it added a cent to their sales. It may have made them *sell* however, but it was just my guess that it didn't help the price. I saw the same with a train set collection.

Personally, I collect antique tin robots and restoration absolutely kills the price.

If I were to sell, I'd DEFINATELY give this forum first crack at it. I'm amazed the forum owners don't soup the sales section up. Then I'd sell on Gumtree. eBay is a hideous waste of time.

[BobL]

If I were to sell, I'd DEFINATELY give this forum first crack at it. I'm amazed the forum owners don't soup the sales section up. Then I'd sell on Gumtree. eBay is a hideous waste of time.

To be honest I have been a bit disappointed with selling, or even giving things away, through the forum. Some of this is it's WA with a small population base. I find gumtree has lot of time wasters too.

[justonething]

The argument about whether de-rusting increase the value of the tools is a bit like if renovations increase the value of a property. The common wisdom is that renovations increase the value of the property by the cost of materials but not the labour that is involved. What hasn't been mentioned is the marketability. What cleaning up/renovation does is it increases the reach of the tools/house to the potential buyers who are a bit new to the market place and who would be drawn to the purchase because of the better perception.

For de-rusting, I'd definitely recommend electrolysis. It's minimal cost and minimal involvement of your own time and its very easy to setup (http://www.htpaa.org.au/resources/rust-removal). The only thing to watch out for is hydrogen embrittlement which can be taken care of by baking it in the oven for a little while.

Having said that, cleaning up tools doesn't seem to be all that popular among ebay or gumtree advertisers. I think that's because of the inability of the buyer to clearly see the actual condition of the items for sale other than a rough idea and so it doesn't seem to make much difference in price.

But on any HPTAA sales, I notice the professionals always have their items nicely fettled and displayed.

It might be a good idea to list them on the market place, then gumtree and then ebay. And finally at swap meets.

[China]

Re de rusting if it is only surface rust you will not gain anything re sale by cleaning things up, if the rust severe i.e. pitted the the same applies the time you spend soaking brushing and cleaning will not reflect in increased price, better off just to sell them as they are, as mentioned above be realistic in pricing

[Mobyturns]

Thanks guys, your thoughts pretty much reflect mine. The chucks I will probably service but the tools will get a light going over only. My time is valuable to me & offering to sell the stuff will consume enough of it without looking for more work.

The family do know its purchase price, well some do, so I have been saying that 50% of RRP is the max they could hope for.

[crowie]

May not apply here but bumped into an old friend today in town who has started collecting and cleaning old tool with a 1:9 or 1:10 solution of Molasses and water bring the steel back to almost original condition and all the rust gone.

He even commented that the old company etching became clearly visible.

To remove rust from tools without using caustic chemicals, mix 1 part molasses with 9 parts water in a container, then soak the rusty items in it for between several days and two weeks.
The solution breaks down the rust and holds it in suspension.

[Bohdan]

Molasses will also remove paint and galvanizing very successfully.

[Christos]

Just my thoughts on the bulk offer option as I don't believe that this will bring a fair price. It limits the number of people who might be interested in all the tools.

[Mobyturns]

Just my thoughts on the bulk offer option as I don't believe that this will bring a fair price. It limits the number of people who might be interested in all the tools.

Agreed, especially since there are some high ticket specialist items in the lot. Considering options at the moment, probably will offer them in smaller logical lots. I still have to get a handle on what is hidden in the many hidey holes.

[Paul39]

When buying stuff for the shed, I'm a bottom feeder. With that said, I'm willing to pay 2/3 to 3/4 price of new for new in box stuff. 1/2 price of new for good working serviceable and 1/4 for ugly but working.

I have several lathes, band saws, chucks, and around 100 gouges, center sets, grinders, jigs, fixtures, etc. I bought one chuck and one bowl gouge new.

A user of tools will not be put off buying slightly rusted gouges, etc. A quick shine up with some oil and 0000 steel wool and off to work. Someone who wants new and pretty will not buy used anyway.

I would not spend a lot of time cleaning and shining. Get a new 75mm polyester paint brush and dust off the stuff outside or in front of a dust hood, arrange is logical sets and be done.

One way to look at the situation is to figure; will one hour of my time at my regular pay increase the value of what I am selling by more than that amount.

It is good of you to help dispose of the shed full. Turners and woodies are mostly caring, generous people.

[Flindersia]

hi Geoff,
I have done this twice this past couple of years; once as a favour to someone who was very generous to me and once as a favour to a friend of the family. Neither person I was selling on behalf of was particularly motivated by the money generated, instead their motivation was getting the gear back into the hands of those that could put it to use which made the process a lot easier for me. I think BobL has it pretty right in his commentary. Gumtree tends to be full of time wasters, scammers and resellers with the odd genuine buyer thrown in. Personally I found the market place on this forum the best but the stuff needs to be cheap. Most of the items I sold were less than 1/2 price for tooling simply because it's so common and available these days. Primo quality stuff will bring more. I never wasted time cleaning prior to sale, far preferring to sell as is and let the buyer profit from any time committed to restoration of items. And remember, the biggest time waster of all is packaging and posting items to buyers. This is a process I hopelessly underestimated and is the main reason I would think twice prior to taking something like this on again. Hope this helps in some small way.
Regards.

[Mobyturns]

Thanks Flindersia, after today I can see where you are coming from. I have assisted in two other disposals / clean-ups but neither were anywhere near this scale.

The family is overwhelmed by the enormity of the clean up, must admit so am I. Years of accumulated stuff - most of it JUNK! In half an hour I had filled a wheelie bin with cr@p, and that isn't even noticeable.

One son (non woodie) has spent over a week of his leave to come home to Tville rationalizing the wood stash. What is left is what he though was useable blanks & billets. Still a lot of firewood in there, and it is not easy to tell them that. Far easier to just park a trailer beside the shed and chuck most of it in there now rather than muck about for weeks trying to sell the unsaleable then dump it.

A fair proportion of the tools are / were quality tools brands, mostly Robert Sorby, but many on inspection are carbon steel tools - almost no saleable value now.

So fellow wood turners do your families a big favour and throw out the cr@p now before you become incapacitated or cark it!

[BobL]

So fellow wood turners do your families a big favour and throw out the cr@p now before you become incapacitated or cark it!

When my son left home he left a huge mess behind in his room. My comeback is I am going to leave a bigger mess behind for him to clean up.

[Mobyturns]

When my son left home he left a huge mess behind in his room. My comeback is I am going to leave a bigger mess behind for him to clean up.

Bob you have a good point there, :D

Must be a Gen Y thing about the sons rooms :rolleyes:

[wheelinround]

So fellow wood turners do your families a big favour and throw out the cr@p now before you become incapacitated or cark it!

All 3 of my kids reckon all I have is crap its strange tho that when it needs fixing, they need tools they don't have they all tend to come to dad as he'll do it, have some tool to do it or can make a tool to do it.

The problem is over the past 30 years we all have changed values the throw away buy a new one attitude, if its broken, looks shabby, isn't the latest gadget on the market or in the latest magazine they don't want to know about it.

All three know that I respect my dad's tools although they have not been well cared for by me (by that I have not damaged destroyed just neglected them by not keeping them in better condition) thats about to change as I now have the room to restore and leave on a bench while doing other projects.

Then we have the issues of those who head off to Uni or higher education or jobs away from tools because we/they want to better. Strange how many I see who have even PHD's and down (not including those of us who have worked iwth tools most of our lives) have taken up the challenge and find solace in the shed!!!!

The term crap!!! is different to many of us as my dad and others his age would say "One man trash is another mans gold" just look at all the tool restorations, machine restorations going on. I go to markets and see rusty old tools of all sorts some sell for $$$ some for C and they can be exactly the same tool in same condition.

Moby I hope all goes well with it all. I recall that fellows workshop and life work of models sold off with a notice put up on here some time back it was sad to see and if I recall it was SiL who had the task.

I know tools I have some are quite old some cheap and nasty but our fathers and myself bought what has now become top quality collectables made for a price to last a life time and more. Many new high quality tools and price to match will die long before those.

[dai sensei]

I have cleaned out a few friends and my father's workshops that have passed, the latest being Gawdelpus's stuff. It is a huge job but I found selling individually or in groups was they way to go. When I say group, like a lathe with many accessories associated with the lathe, or a trolley filled with various tools that have a common use.

If you can get 50% you are doing well, unfortunately the widows sometimes know what was paid for things and have that unrealistic expectations of getting it back, or have have no idea and venerable to getting ripped off.

[Chris Parks]

Thanks Flindersia, after today I can see where you are coming from. I have assisted in two other disposals / clean-ups but neither were anywhere near this scale.

The family is overwhelmed by the enormity of the clean up, must admit so am I. Years of accumulated stuff - most of it JUNK! In half an hour I had filled a wheelie bin with cr@p, and that isn't even noticeable.

One son (non woodie) has spent over a week of his leave to come home to Tville rationalizing the wood stash. What is left is what he though was useable blanks & billets. Still a lot of firewood in there, and it is not easy to tell them that. Far easier to just park a trailer beside the shed and chuck most of it in there now rather than muck about for weeks trying to sell the unsaleable then dump it.

A fair proportion of the tools are / were quality tools brands, mostly Robert Sorby, but many on inspection are carbon steel tools - almost no saleable value now.

So fellow wood turners do your families a big favour and throw out the cr@p now before you become incapacitated or cark it!

I did the trailer thing three times and I haven't a clue what I threw out and missed none of it. I now have a no crap work shop that has a very nice collection of tools and machinery and still my son says he doesn't know what he is going to do with all the crap in when I am gone. Part of that crap is two Hammer machines BTW. I think I will surprise him and sell it before then and when he wants to do something there will be no tools to do it with. Is that cutting my nose off to spite my face?

[ian]

yes

[Mobyturns]

Now here is a bit of woodturning history that I though to be a very unlikely find in Townsville FNQ. Its a Robert Sorby RS3000 Ornamental Turning Device. Designed by Martin Thompson-Oram and marketed by Sorby in the mid 1990's for just a couple of years.

The device is quite unique as an ornamental turner as the work piece rotates and the cutter reciprocates back and forth at high speed to create the patterns.

A magnet attached to the lathe spindle acts as a reference for a sensor and the micro processer controls the cutter in accordance with user defined parameters for, the pattern, number of elements to the pattern, from 6 to 24, the pattern offset and length of cutter stroke. The user controls the alignment and placement of the cutter "frame."

The cutter is actuated by a solenoid controlled by the microprocessor. In the photo from top left - box of cutters; the cutter assy / solenoid plus spiral lead ; tool post with hose clamp height stop; cutter frame that fits to a horizontal flat plate tool rest which is missing (similar to a Sorby modular tool rest box platform); various tool posts; power leads and sensor plus lead; and the microprocessor unit.

The unit is fully operational as I had set it all up, set the parameters, then turned on the lathe at a belt setting of 570rpm ( Nova 3000 8 speed lathe). The reciprocating cutter works, but I could not make any trial cuts due the missing flat cutter tool rest. The missing item is merely a flat plate with one threaded hole for the modular tool posts, similar to a Sorby modular tool rest box platform, and could be quickly manufactured by any competent fitter & turner. I took over my Sorby box platform to trial however it is only slightly thicker than the missing item so would not fit into the machined slot.