3 reno problems

[Tiger]

Dear all,

I have 3 projects that I would like to start in the next few days as I've got some time off work.

As I mentioned previously, we would like to extend our pergola. At the moment, there is a shade sail which is not that effective when it rains :( . I have included a photo to show the beam and how it is joined to the uprights. I would like to safely join on to what's already there without compromising the existing pergola. The addition would only be about 1.5 by about 3 metres.

Project 2 has me baffled :confused: . A number of the rooms (not just the bathroom) in our houses have small amounts of mildew in them usually at the bottom of the window sills. I have looked underneath and there are some small patches of water but I can't see where the water could be coming from.

The last project shows how not to construct something:eek: . The water pipe runs about 100 ml of the ground. I would like to use the space underneath the house to store things but as you can see it would be difficult to make up some sort of door that would easily open and close. Opening the trap door into the space under the house is also difficult because it runs into the ducted heating hoses.

I've attached pictures to better explain the situation and I would genuinely appreciate any advice on these matters

[Eastie]

Project 1 - have a look at the pergola & deck book by Alan Staines and see if what you are proposing is simple and will not affect the structural integrity of the existing structures.
Project 2 - quite normal in houses these days that are well sealed (which offers higher energy efficiency). The problem can arise in cooler climates in bedrooms as much as bathrooms from a lack of fresh air changes during the night when water vapor from expired air condenses on the cooler glass/aluminium allowing spores to settle and grow.
Project 3 - you could re-run the water pipe in poly and route it elsewhere (run it under the house or bury it). As for the ducts - flexible duct is easy to extend and re-route given you have some space under the house.

[Tiger]

Thanks, Eastie for your comments.

Project 1 I have looked at the book by Staines (actually bought it) but like most of his stuff it's hard to understand and lacks real detail. Did you have a particular page in mind?

Project 2, Your anaylsis could well be right, do you know of any solutions?

Project 3, Can you tell me a bit more about running the pipe in poly ie what diameter? I am no plumber but if I need to swap from gal pipe to something else, I will. I was hoping not to have to do any plumbing but the gal pipe is looking a little rusty.

[jimc]

For option 3...

I would suggest you repalce the old gal pipe all the way to the meter in 19mm or old school 3/4 inch copper or poly pipe. It is not too difficult to do just make sure you bury it at least 300-400mm deep. You don't want to put a garden fork through it at later date!

cheers

[Tiger]

Jim,

Thanks for the advice. How difficult would it be to replace the gal pipe with copper pipe? I suppose it's one of those jobs that only plumbers are allowed to do. Not at home at the moment but pretty sure that the gal pipe is connected to the hot water system, don't know if that makes it any more difficult.

[Eastie]

Had the same mildew problem with aluminium windows in our last place - the best I could do was keep the bedroom windows open - between 1/2 to 1 inch to allow natural ventilation. It is'nt really that big of a problem so clean it off with a mould killer a couple of times a year. As for the book - if you've read through the book and can't come up with a solution I suggest you get someone in to design for you.

[gsouth]

We had a similar mould problem - found mainly it was caused by condensation on the windows that then heated up and created a nice little environment for spores.
Solution - ventilation and air movement.
Mould typically grows best in environments with little to no air flow - even people moving around a house causes enough air movement - think of the smell of a house that's been sitting for a while with noone in it.

I would crack the window open and let the air flow, or another suggestion I had from an 'expert' when we were looking was to put vents that cycled air into the floor cavity or the ceiling cavity or to outside - the kind with 12v fans - you put them on a timer. This helps create air movement.

[Tiger]

We have tried the window opening trick and we have ducted heating which is on everyday between March and October so you'd reckon there would be plenty of airflow.

I should mention (and it probably wasn't clear in my first post) that the dampness/water was in some areas under the house not in the house itself. We can't see where the water is coming from, there's not much there and I don't know if it has any relevance.

[Trav]

Tiger

Prob 1: The book by Staines really is the best resource around. I don't have it in front of me, but you need to read the bit about the spans allowable between posts. I would expect that, if your pergola was built correctly in the first place, that you could expand the pergola to the other side of the post the same width as is already there. ie if there is a 3 m span between posts, you could probably go three metres out from the post.

Tke staines book is a little complicated, but you really need to know this stuff if you are building a deck or pergola. It is not uncommon, for example, for a strong wind to rip a pergola (or more likely a shade sail) right out of the wall if it s not done right. If you weren't going to put a roof over it, you could probably fudge it, but with a roof, they will catch the wind and can rip, for example, you fascia board right off the roof.

Like Eastie said, if the book makes no sense to you, perhaps get someone to come and design it for you. But persist with the book because once you work it out, it is easy to use. I made a deck based solely on that book - it took me a while to design it, but everything worked well.

Prob 2: I use ducted gas heating though winter and we never have mildew problems. But our humidity is probably lower than most areas. The problem, as others have correctly identified, is that there is not enough air movement. The moisture in the air near the window condenses (because it is colder near the window) and forms a fog on the window and then dribbles down to the bottom eventually.

The best way to fix it is to ensure you have air movement. Don't sleep with the bedroom door closed if you can help it and try and keep one window open a bit. Another option is to put a vent in the ceiling up into the roof cavity - you see them in bathrooms pretty regularly. You can buy the vents from bunnings for about 20 bucks.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Trav

[Tiger]

Trav, thanks for the suggestions.

Proj 1, I understand the allowable spans etc. I built the pergola in the first place, checked the codes, applied for a building permit and built it. At the time, we were strapped for funds and that is why now we wish to extend it. The Staines book is one of only a few books around and it covers spans and thicknessess etc. but is not a great diy book, you are right you do need some prior knowledge. In my opinion, you'd struggle to build anything with the Staines books as they rely on ordinary illustrations and lack detail but there isn't much around so I have bought most of them. The question with the pergola is can I cut away where the beam is now and add a smaller beam to the same post? This attached smaller beam would then be supported by another post further on.

Proj 2, I am going to look at those vents and try them out.

[Trav]

Tiger

I think I understand what you mean.

I think the rule of thumb is that you should not house out more than 1/2 of the thickness of the post. ie. if you want to have two bits of timber bolted to the one post (one on the front and one on the back), you house out 1/4 on each side.

If you were going to use that post, I would be more inclined to use a lap joint. ie if the post is 90x90, and the joist 140x90, you'd take a piece off the existing joist that is 90x70 (ie the width of the post and half the height of the joist) from either the top or the bottom. The new joist would have the inverse. Then use a bolt through each joist and the post.

I didn't explain it well, but you might know what I mean. If not, I'll try and explain it better. :confused:

Others may have better ideas.

Trav

[jimc]

I have replaced a heap of gal piping with copper (cold and hot). I used flared fittings which makes life very easy, although more expensive than silver solder fittings, they will do the same job.

My suggestion is to replace the pipe all the way back to the main cold water source and replace as much gal pipe as possible. You will notice a heck of a difference in water pressure.

Word of advice DO NOT BUY PLUMBING FITTINGS AT BUNNINGS. I bought all my parts at Tradelink in Syndal...and press them on price. Most parts I bought where 1/5th the cost Bunnings had, and they were far superior fittings.

Just remember...heaps of teflon tape on all threads and if you want to go overboard...use some gas fitters paste as well on the thread and flare.

Its just like a big Mecano set, only you dont want it to leak!

[Tiger]

Trav and Jim,

You're right, I wouldn't house out more than half the joint, only thing is the coach bolt is right through the middle of the post, if I attach the other beam to it the coach bolt will be sitting toward the end of the post rather than through the middle but maybe that doesn't matter.

Jim, my experience with Bunnies is like yours, don't buy fittings there if you can avoid it. However, having another look at the situation I think the pipe may be a gas pipe not water as I thought. Most of the pipe is underground so you cannot clearly see where it starts but I now strongly suspect that it's gas. Are they the same as changing water pipes ----------- if you turn the gas off or do I need to call a plumber?

[Ianab]

Problem 2 - common on this side of the Tasman - Hi humidity and all.
One of those portable de-humidifiers will help to reduce the condensation. When I moved into this house I actually had MOSS growing on the aluminium windows in the bathroom!! Now I just leave the D/H on with the humidistat set in the middle of the range and it keeps the whole house dryer :)

Ian

[Tiger]

Would you need a dehumidifier in every room as we have this problem in 4 or 5 rooms? Wouldn't this get expensive?

[Ianab]

Would you need a dehumidifier in every room as we have this problem in 4 or 5 rooms? Wouldn't this get expensive?

I only use one.. it goes in the kitchen/ living room at night and during the day it's outside the bedrooms / bathroom at the other end of the house. I still get some condensation, but it's much reduced
Putting in extra vents will help if you have dry air outside, I dont.. it's often 80-90% humidity outside so I'd just be sucking in more water.
Ian

[Tiger]

Ianab,

How much would a dehumidifier like yours cost?

[kiwigeo]

Ianab,

How much would a dehumidifier like yours cost?

Tiger,

Check out this site for GTP brand dehumidifiers:

http://www.antidamp.com.au/frame_d.html

Ive just ordered the DH24 model for my workshop here in Adelaide...cost $1100 and they picked up freight costs from Sydney to Adelaide. The other models are a bit cheaper but have lower moisture removal rates.

The best machines are made by Mitsubishi but theyve stopped importing them into the country. A questionable move as the machines are in high demand.

Cheers

Martin

[Tiger]

[QUOTE=kiwigeo]Tiger,

Check out this site for GTP brand dehumidifiers:

http://www.antidamp.com.au/frame_d.html

Ive just ordered the DH24 model for my workshop here in Adelaide...cost $1100 and they picked up freight costs from Sydney to Adelaide. The other models are a bit cheaper but have lower moisture removal rates.

Mmm Martin, and you bought that for your workshop:eek: , I can see we come from different ends of the spectrum, I'm at the poor end. I don't think I'd mind if there's mildew in the workshop because I know my wife's not going to say "can't you fix that, I'm tired of cleaning that up every week". If I have a lazy $1000 hanging around I started fantasizing about my next big tool, but thank you for your advice, it will be carefully considered ;) .

[spartan]

Does the staines pergola book have any info on gable roofs....I have a layout similar to the one that is pictured by tiger (just longer), and i want to convert it to a gable roof line.

[kiwigeo]

[QUOTE=kiwigeo]Tiger,


Mmm Martin, and you bought that for your workshop:eek: , I can see we come from different ends of the spectrum, I'm at the poor end. I don't think I'd mind if there's mildew in the workshop because I know my wife's not going to say "can't you fix that, I'm tired of cleaning that up every week". If I have a lazy $1000 hanging around I started fantasizing about my next big tool, but thank you for your advice, it will be carefully considered ;) .

Tiger, yes it sounds excessive but I dont have kids and my wife works so we have a bit more spare cash than the average person.

In the workshop Im building guitars and humidity is an issue.....need to keep it below that of the environment the guitar will eventually end up working in.....it reduces the chance of me seeing instruments boomerang back for repairs.

Note I quoted the most expensive GTP machine....there are two smaller machines in the range which are a bit cheaper. Occasionally youll see dehumidifiers advertised on Ebay. Another option is to pick one up in NZ if youre over that way....dehumidifiers seem to be the big thing over there at present and you see alot of good second hand machines on sale there at reasonable prices.

Cheers

Martin

[jimc]

You mentioned the pipe heads toward your hot water heater. The side connection of the unit should be clearly marked if it is natural gas.

Do not play around with gas piping unless you are really keen....get a plumber.

[Ianab]

Ianab,

How much would a dehumidifier like yours cost?

The really flash ones like kiwigeo is talking about can set you back $1000, but you can get a good smaller unit for under $500 and I think I paid about $350 for my Taiwanese 'Brandname of the Month' unit. The smaller ones are less powerfull (remove less water per hour) and have less flashing lights and buttons, but still do the job.

http://www.retravision.com.au/apps/shop/productBrowse.asp?category=1333

Cheers

Ian

[Auspiciousdna]

Firstly Prop the bigger beam up and unbolt it, then cut the beam down the line of the bolt holes. It looks as you have enough room there to butt another beam up to it, do the same to the pitching plate, the rest you can figure out.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Secondly See if you have weep holes in the brick work under the window, if not put some in, if so, see if their blocked with mortar. If this doesn’t work I can’t help you! <o:p></o:p>

Thirdly Just make the dwarf wall access door to swing over the pipe. I can’t tell from the pic!<o:p></o:p>

[kiwigeo]

The really flash ones like kiwigeo is talking about can set you back $1000, but you can get a good smaller unit for under $500 and I think I paid about $350 for my Taiwanese 'Brandname of the Month' unit. The smaller ones are less powerfull (remove less water per hour) and have less flashing lights and buttons, but still do the job.



Good advice there Ian. The cheaper machines are probably ideal for Tigers purposes. I need pretty tight control on humidity levels (40-50% constant) so am tied to models with an accurate and variable humidistat control. Also need machines that can be left running around the clock and with an external drain.

I note that Retravision have the Mitsubishi model on their website.....if theyve got any left in stock grab one....theyre not being imported any more and theyre one of the best machines around.

[Tiger]

Firstly Prop the bigger beam up and unbolt it, then cut the beam down the line of the bolt holes. It looks as you have enough room there to butt another beam up to it, do the same to the pitching plate, the rest you can figure out.ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>

Secondly See if you have weep holes in the brick work under the window, if not put some in, if so, see if their blocked with mortar. If this doesn’t work I can’t help you! <O:p></O:p>

Thirdly Just make the dwarf wall access door to swing over the pipe. I can’t tell from the pic!<O:p></O:p>

1. That beam is supporting a lot of weight, suppose I'll get some acro props to hold the weight up or is there an easier way?

2. The weep holes are there about every 1.5 m but I did notice that we have large windows, maybe more of these weep holes are needed. Also noticed that the room that is probably most affected has a weep hole that is very rusty whereas the others aren't, not sure what that means. Some of the weep holes had about a 20% blockage of mortar but some were obsucred a bit by the floor bearers.

3. Did think of that but the door would run into the row of bricks that are on the bottom sill of the window.

[Trav]

Perhaps you should get under the house and see if there is any moisture there. It should be really dry under there. If not, you may have problems with moisture that go beyond a bit of mildew on the window frames.

Trav

[Tiger]

Perhaps you should get under the house and see if there is any moisture there. It should be really dry under there. If not, you may have problems with moisture that go beyond a bit of mildew on the window frames.

Trav

I do spend a bit of time under the house especially when my mother in law visits, take my tools down there, pretend to be busy and as she is beginning to leave (I know because I can hear most of the conversations from down there), I'll come up.

There is a bit of moisture but I can't work out where it's coming from, it could be run-off from the side of the house but not sure. A plumber looked at it once and shrugged his shoulders. Anyone know how to identify the source of the moisture and what it could be.

[Auspiciousdna]

Very rusty sounds like you getting very wet were the rust is.Do you have eaves?

[Tiger]

Yes we have eaves. The house has a hip roof with eaves all the way around. There is only one weep hole that is very rusty, the rest are in reasonable condition.

[Auspiciousdna]

It could be no flashing or weep ho;es over the window or you don’t have an ant-pooling fibro and the end of the rafters, it could be heaps of things I would check them all.
Try taking some titles of the roof to look in between the wall cavity to see if you have flashing over the window, it's not a easy thing to pin point<O:p</O:p


A dehumidifier only fixes the symptoms not the problem.
All I know there should not be moisture like you have inside the windows, if you can't find why I get someone in like a damp expert cause that crap ain't good for you. I hope this helps

[kiwigeo]

I do spend a bit of time under the house especially when my mother in law visits, take my tools down there, pretend to be busy and as she is beginning to leave (I know because I can hear most of the conversations from down there), I'll come up.



Well there you are..there's the source of all that moisture. Its the cold sweat you break out into as soon as you learn your MIL is on the way for a visit.

One trick I learnt from my Japanese wife that you can try.....if you leave an upturned broom in your entranceway it drives away unwelcome visitors. Believe it or not it does seem to work. When visitors ask you why youve got an upturned broom in your entranceway...you tell them why its there...and they leave.

[Tiger]

Auspicious, sorry my terminology is not what it should be. I have confused weep holes with those ventilators ie those thin metal grids that measure about 150 by 150. I have just looked up weep holes in a book, I wasn't sure what they were. Don't know if this makes a difference to your analysis.

Kiwigeo, an upturned broom won't scare my mother in law away, she has ridden many an upturned broom in her time. Maybe though I could use the upturned broom to support the pergola while I add the other beam.....

[Auspiciousdna]

Weep holes are mortar that has been left out in between bricks to let any water out that might get into the cavity from around the windows at the bottom and water that could get in from above the window, mainly from rain soaking the bricks and then water will run down the inside of the brick onto the flashing over the window and be let out of the weep holes. (if you have flashing) sometime things like this are left out by mistake the water could run onto the window frame and run down the sides of the window inside the cavity


Usually 3 or 4 holes top and bottom




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[Tiger]

Thanks, Auspicious, I'll have a look tomorrow to see if I have any weep holes, from memory I think they're there.

[Tiger]

Can now confirm that the gal pipe is definitely a gas pipe. Any thoughts on replacing this sort of pipe. Is it safe to work with if you bleed the gas, and how would you do this? I would be replacing it with 3/4 inch copper pipe.

[Trav]

Some things are not worth doing yourself. IMHO this is one of them. You can do all the prep work yourself, but get a plumber gasfitter in to actually change it over. I think your house insurance would, for example, be void if this work led to a problem either now or in the future.

Cheers

Trav

[jimc]

As I said earlier...if its gas...get a plumber.

Leaking water is not as dangerous as leaking gas!

[Sturdee]

Can now confirm that the gal pipe is definitely a gas pipe. Any thoughts on replacing this sort of pipe. Is it safe to work with if you bleed the gas, and how would you do this? I would be replacing it with 3/4 inch copper pipe.


Tony, as said before get a plumber to change gas pipes.

Even I will not touch gas lines for if you stuff it up you'll blow your house up. Water pipes is different. :D


Peter.

[Tiger]

I take your advice boys regarding the gas fitting, although after some more digging around it's only a short piece of rusted galvanised pipe which is connected at both ends by simple t junctions. I won't do this job for the reasons you've mentioned but unless there was a spark at a point where there was a gas leak, there shouldn't be a problem I would assume. This might seem like a naive question, but what could go wrong with changing the pipe if you followed simple precautions and checked that the changeover pipe was free of any leaks?