Oneida Supplier in Aus?

[Dalegarth]

I have recently upgraded my table saw and really need to do something to improve my dust collection. My plan was to buy a Dust Deputy XL, which has 6" diameter inlet and outlets, take the motor and blower housing from my Jet 2 HP dust collector and mount it on top of the cyclone, and exhaust it straight out the side of the shed.

I think it should work reasonably well, but I have had trouble sourcing a cyclone - Carbatec, while they are Oneida's agents in Australia, don't carry the unit, and Oneida in the US haven't bothered replying to any of my emails. I would assume freight from the US for something of that size would be a bit pricey as well.

Can anyone steer me in the right direction to an Australian supplier of something similar? I can't really stretch the budget to a Clearvue or similar at this stage, so will have persevere with modifying the Jet to improve the system at this stage.


Cheers
Matt

[Chris Parks]

Carbatec, while they are Oneida's agents in Australia, don't carry the unit, and Oneida in the US haven't bothered replying to any of my emails.

I would take that as great big hint of what to expect from Oneida if I were you. Sometimes it is best to just pick up a phone and ring the company, a single phone conversation can eliminate a month of back and forth emails.

[BobL]

Whether you use a cyclone or filter bags depends on how committed you are at maintaining maximum air flow through a system,.

If you use a 3rd party cyclone on a 2HP DC you will lose 20-25% of the flow IMMEDIATELY.
This is equivalent to starting off with the filter bags already partially blocked.

Given that even a modified 2HP has less than adequate performance to begin with this means you will simply not capture sufficient fine dust being generated at source which means a shed will be continually contaminated with fine dust.

At least with clean filter you start off with a chance of the max possible flow.

The problem is compounded on a TS where suction has to be split between the cabinet and the the OH guard.

I still contend you are far better of not using a cyclone and cleaning bags on a regular system. If you have a spare bit of cash, think about getting pleated filters as they have less resistance and will maintain higher air flows for longer.

To separate dust effectively and to have minimal resistance the cyclone has to be well designed and made, and accurately matched to a DC impeller/motor. It's not just a matter of any cyclone (A) attached to any impeller/motor (B). Combining A+B on vacuum cleaner system is far more feasible because Vacs operate at much higher pressure so if they lose some pressure it does not affect the air flow as much.

More important than both is locating or venting the DC outside

[QC Inspector]

Bob he isn't going to use filters at all so only the cyclone losses to consider. "....take the motor and blower housing from my Jet 2 HP dust collector and mount it on top of the cyclone, and exhaust it straight out the side of the shed."

Matt if you are handy you could make your own cyclone to Bill Pentz's plans (http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/build_cyclone.cfm#Instructions) of whatever sheet material you like, metal, plastic or even bendy plywood. It is sized for bigger motor/fans than your 2hp but you would be ready if you ever got bigger and if you mod your 2hp ago Bob's sticky it'll be as good as anything else your going to be able to get in that size range.

There was a Kiwi that made fibreglass cyclones to Bill's design. You could see if he could make one for you.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f200/fibreglass-cyclone-project-173794?highlight=fibreglass+cyclone
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f200/busting-cyclone-myths-207846?highlight=fibreglass+cyclone

Pete

[BobL]

Bob he isn't going to use filters at all so only the cyclone losses to consider. "....take the motor and blower housing from my Jet 2 HP dust collector and mount it on top of the cyclone, and exhaust it straight out the side of the shed."

Yep I got that , but clean filters are still less restrictive than an aftermarket cyclone.
Filter plus cyclone is even more restrictive.

From BP's Static Calc - pressure losses in "inches of water column".

Std separator 4.5"
Cyclones; 3 - 4.5", even the CV is 2.25"
Filters; Std bag =2.5", 5 micron bag = 1" pleated filters depend on areas = from 0.5 to 0.2"
Multiple bags are added in parallel so two 5 micron bags will have 0.5" loss.

The question is how long does it take to reach 4.5" of losses?
This depends what you are doing and for how long you do it.
Being a "lite Wood worker" it usually take me between 3 and 6 months to lose 2.5" of pressure and I don't usually let it get that far anyway,.
OTOH start thicknessing a trailer load of hardwood and you will lose 4.5" of pressure very quickly.
Turners (especially newbies) generally make a lot of dust so they have a good reason to use a cyclone

[tonzeyd]

Hi Matt,

I've gone down this route and have concluded that by the time you've attached all your ducting etc that 2hp is insufficient to control dust, especially as a central unit, if you've got space to move the extractor around and connect it directly to the tool then you might have sufficient extraction.

Plus when you add a cyclone to your dust extractor it becomes bulky/heavy to drag around when you need to be mobile for whatever reason.

If on the other hand you choose to continue down the cyclone route, contact your local sheet metal worker, give them bill pentz plans and they can make one up for you. I've contacted a few guys in WA and depending on the dimensions of what you're after quotes are around the $1k mark for something designed for a 2hp unit.

[BobL]

Hi Matt,
I've gone down this route and have concluded that by the time you've attached all your ducting etc that 2hp is insufficient to control dust, especially as a central unit, if you've got space to move the extractor around and connect it directly to the tool then you might have sufficient extraction.

I would most definitely not recommend moving a DC around inside the shed. The single most important thing that can be done on DIY systems is to locate or debt the DC outside because all DCs, especially those that are moved around, leak fine dust. I have tested around 20 DCs in various sheds and the leakiest ones are usually those that are moved around.


If on the other hand you choose to continue down the cyclone route, contact your local sheet metal worker, give them bill pentz plans and they can make one up for you. I've contacted a few guys in WA and depending on the dimensions of what you're after quotes are around the $1k mark for something designed for a 2hp unit.

I'm not sure of the merits of putting a BP cyclone on a standard 2HP 12" blower. These impellers only generate about 8" of WC so by the time the 2.5" of WC for the BP cyclone design is factored in there's relatively little pressure left to move air. Others will dispute this but I would start with at least a 14" impeller and a 3HP boosted to 3600 RPM using a VFD. This is why the Standard ClearVue models use 15 and 16" impellers and 4 HP motors.

[Dalegarth]

Thanks for the comments guys. I guess I still have a bit more research/saving to do. I may invest in a pleated filter as a cheaper short term option, but my aim is to get things working well enough to justify running some permanent 6" ducting to my machines - running the flexible line to each machine as I need it is wearing thin. Time is a big issue, so I really want to make sure I get it right the first time!

[BobL]

Thanks for the comments guys. I guess I still have a bit more research/saving to do. I may invest in a pleated filter as a cheaper short term option, but my aim is to get things working well enough to justify running some permanent 6" ducting to my machines - running the flexible line to each machine as I need it is wearing thin. Time is a big issue, so I really want to make sure I get it right the first time! How big is your shed - or how far apart are machines? A 2HP only cope effectively with machines located at relatively short distances (3m) away from the DC and given the DC should be vented or located outside a shed, that means the DC will normally be up against one wall of the shed. When vertical ducting is are taken into account this usually means it can only cover machines within a small area on one side of a shed.