Gestalt 4th July 2017, 07:30 PM Hi guys, I just bought a replacement tipped blade from ebay for my Ryobi compound mitre saw. It's a Toolstorm brand, 254 mm diameter with 60 teeth. It looks OK, but the cut has a lot to be desired. I'm only cutting small section Tassy Oak.The saw itself has done a lot of work and is quite old, but the slides still seem good.
I'm just wondering if tipped blades vary in quality. Thanks for any advice.
elanjacobs 4th July 2017, 08:36 PM Blades absolutely vary in quality and the difference between a cheap one and a good one is miles apart.
I believe the technical term for brands like Toolstorm (and most anything else out of China) is "gahhhhbage". Go to a proper tool shop and buy yourself something half decent from a real brand.
Prle77 4th July 2017, 09:33 PM agree with elanjacobs...
the difference between a good blade and a cheap blade is huge...
I was given a cheapie blade for my tablesaw.. straight away upon mounting it and starting the saw i've seen one main problem.. blade wobbled.. and no it is not my arbour or saw as I'm using other blades.. (like CMT ones) and no wobble ..
another cheap blade was causing excessive tearouts.. (same number of teeth as its CMT equivalent) but with CMT (or better ones.. ) Now I've been mentioning CMT few times here not because of any preference.. It is just that those ones are the ones I've been using and comparing against much cheaper brands i've used...There are better blades than CMT but they are more expensive and at this stage out of my budget...
At the end of the day it is definitely worth spending bit extra and getting the blade that will give you good cuts and last quite a while (with a bit of care)
Rod Gilbert 4th July 2017, 10:00 PM Definitely worth buying better quality blades the difference is slight but it makes a huge difference to the cut if you can live with a bit of waver in the blade go for the cheaper option but if you want repeatable clean cuts pay the extra if you are trying to get good miter's straight of the saw or nice tight fitting joints pay the extra it is well worth it.
Regards Rod.
safari 4th July 2017, 10:39 PM I bought a Diablo 60 tooth blade for my scms from Mitre 10 and was surprised at the quality of the cut. I don't use this saw much so went for a middle of the road blade.
Might be worth a look.
safari 4th July 2017, 10:59 PM Just had a look at the Toolstorm website. Looks like you may have got the two pack set for$39.99. A blade that costs only $20 is definitely not going to give a quality cut.
cava 4th July 2017, 11:01 PM What are the better brands to buy, and where is the best place (read cheapest) to get them?
Damienol 4th July 2017, 11:08 PM Freud is my preferred brand for a lot of things that they make, saw blades, router bits, sandpaper etc. The good news is that Bunnings actually stock some if their stuff
elanjacobs 4th July 2017, 11:18 PM What are the better brands to buy, and where is the best place (read cheapest) to get them?
I always say Leitz, Leuco or Dimar; industrial grade with a price to match, but the cut is beyond comparison.
We currently have a Dewalt zero-rake on the drop saw at work which I would definitely recommend. Irwin blades (Bunnings) are decent too.
Chris Parks 5th July 2017, 01:10 AM Henry Bros supplied me with a new blade and when I got it I found it was made in China and I said a few appropriate words about Chinese rubbish but decided to try it anyway. It is by far the best blade I have ever tried on a mitre saw bar none so I guess you can't judge a book by its cover.
rob streeper 5th July 2017, 06:35 AM I've found that all of the big box blades benefit from sharpening. Like a lot of people I'd accumulated a stack of dull carbide tipped circular saw blades over the years. I scared up a Foley sharpener last year and the re-sharpened blades perform better than they did when new.
Robson Valley 5th July 2017, 06:59 AM There's a gang of retired farmers here in the city who set up a tool repair shop. Bearings, motors, worn out parts, those sorts of things.
They sharpen TC saw blades for $15 each. Lock the blade down, push the button and watch. I can't tool up and have the experience for $15.00.
In most instances, what I get for saw blades depends on how much I pay. Very few bargains.
Gestalt 5th July 2017, 07:59 AM Just had a look at the Toolstorm website. Looks like you may have got the two pack set for$39.99. A blade that costs only $20 is definitely not going to give a quality cut.
Yes, it was the two pack that I bought safari. I'll keep these blades for cutting firewood (and I've been doing a lot of that lately). I reckon that's all they're good for.
I've never really had a lot to do with replacement blades in the past and now I've learnt a lot thanks to you guys. I'll chase up on a decent brand name.
Thanks for the help.
Eric
Gestalt 5th July 2017, 08:05 AM I
We currently have a Dewalt zero-rake on the drop saw at work which I would definitely recommend.
Can you specify the rake when buying blades? What would be the advantage of having zero rake?
Rod Gilbert 5th July 2017, 08:27 AM Hi Gestalt,
You can by blades with different rakes for different cutting jobs and materials. A negative rake blade is most commonly used for cutting aluminum and perspex. Blades for cutting melamine faced board are usually a slighter rake than those used for solid timber, I constantly get a very clean finish cut of my blades as I buy quality industrial blades Leuco and CMT they have thick sections of tungsten and can be sharpened many times which brings the cost back over the life of the blade as opposed to buying cheep quality and constantly replacing with the same the cost of sharpening is less than the cheep blade.
Regards Rod.
elanjacobs 5th July 2017, 08:47 AM It's not just rake that makes the difference, tooth profile is also a major factor. Positive rake triple chip is for coated board, but negative rake triple chip is for aluminum and hard plastics and neither of them should be used for timber because the tooth shape is wrong.
In general, you'll want a positive rake, alternate top bevel (ATB) for the best finish in timber.
Most consumer blades are well labelled with what they're meant for so you don't need to worry about the technical stuff unless you want to
cava 5th July 2017, 09:10 AM I always say Leitz, Leuco or Dimar; industrial grade with a price to match, but the cut is beyond comparison.
Where is the best place to get these Elan?
elanjacobs 5th July 2017, 09:19 AM Leitz and Leuco have online stores. We generally stick with Leuco and get them direct from the company sales rep, I don't know if they're available from other sources.
Gestalt 5th July 2017, 06:51 PM Leitz and Leuco have online stores. We generally stick with Leuco and get them direct from the company sales rep, I don't know if they're available from other sources.
That's great info Elan. Thanks.
I just had a look at the Leuco site and was amazed at the range of different types of blades they sell.
https://www.leuco.com/leuco/cms/EN/US/leuco/Circular_Saw_Blades
Should I be looking for a trimming, chop, sizing or nf type?
Boy, what a choice!!
Just goes to show how little I knew about blades!
elanjacobs 5th July 2017, 07:52 PM Trimming or sizing (NOT panel sizing) with "WS" tooth geometry look like they best suit drop saws. Chop is for automated docking saws, nf is for non-ferrous metals and panel sizing is mainly for beam saws and large stacks of board.
cava 5th July 2017, 11:16 PM I also looked at the Leuco site and am more confused than ever.
So the question is for the brains trust here, what should I go for in 12" size for a panel saw?
Most of my current and anticipated future work is in hardwood (eucalyptus, casuarina and acacia), with some pine thrown in for toys and very little in plywood/particle board.
Any advice appreciated.
elanjacobs 5th July 2017, 11:37 PM Our panel saw runs 300mm ATB 96T for both timber and board. Crosscuts are like glass, but it's way to many teeth for ripping; it works, but you have to really push the timber through. For ripping we run a 400mm ATB 48T and for deep ripping/resawing we run a 400mm ATB 32T and the finish off both blades is good enough to skip the thicknesser and go straight to the sander. Reducing the rpm for ripping also helps a lot if your saw has the option.
cava 5th July 2017, 11:54 PM Thanks Elan.
ATB?
Edit: Found out what ATB meant. Thanks Mobyturns.
Mobyturns 5th July 2017, 11:55 PM I have been using CMT, Freud/Diablo, Irwin, Makita and very recently purchased two DeWalt circular saw blades because of their ultra thin kerf design (Celtic knots etc). I mostly make cross cuts of quite small sections in a range of timbers and do a fair bit of ripping so I am looking for a glue quality joint straight off the saw. The CMT "Industrial Fine cut" in 80 tooth was my go to blade but I do not like the howl the blade makes. Now I tend to use the thin kerf 80 tooth Diablo it is not so noisy as the CMT and produces a better quality cut.
It is well worth the time to research and find the blade/s to suit your cutting preferences.
Saw Blade Glossary (http://www.carbideprocessors.com/pages/saw-blades/saw-blade-glossary.html)
Saw Blade Terminology | Central Saws (http://www.centralsaws.com.au/technical-safety)
I still haven't tried the De Walts due to a slight change of plans today - a dead bait freezer with very thawed contents - yuk!
Mobyturns 7th July 2017, 07:31 AM Well I managed to have a small play with the blades and do a comparison with the CMT, Freud/Diablo blades. As I said earlier I'm looking at two things, an excellent finish off the saw and a variety of kerf widths. I used QLD Silver Ash, Northern Silky Oak and standard clear pine as the test stock.
The Dewalts are both 60t one 2.2mm body stock and 216mm dia, the other 210mm 1.8mm stock, the CMT's 254mm 60 & 80 tooth "Industrial Fine Cut" 3.2mm & 2.5mm kerf, the Diablo 254mm 60T 2.5 mm kerf. I also use CMT's "Industrial Fine Cut" blades in other tooth counts and a thin kerf version however the 80T 3.2mm is my preferred blade.
The Diablo produces the best finish off the saw in both square and diagonal crosscuts, the CMT 80T in 3.2 & 2.5 kerfs, then the DeWalts, but all produce very acceptable results for my purposes. The effort on the saw drops very noticeably with the thinner kerfs and of course the smaller blade dia's. The difference between the Diablo and CMT's is not a lot however the Diablo easily wins out due to lower noise levels. The Dewalts offer a very reasonable cut for the price @ $49 & $39 where the Diablo is around $90 and the CMT's over $120. Surprisingly the CMT 3.5mm displayed the most blade wobble but then it has also seen a lot of use.
cava 1st December 2017, 04:51 PM Just about to take the plunge today on a Leuco blade and, out of left field, it was suggested that I try AKE blades from Germany.
Never heard of them before.
Has anyone used them, and what opinion is there of them?
elanjacobs 1st December 2017, 05:09 PM AKE is the German brand no one's heard of; it's all Leitz and Leuco.
When we upgraded our rip saw to a second hand Robland it came with an AKE 28T ATB blade. It's the only one I've used from them, but it's very nice.
damian 2nd December 2017, 08:34 AM Goodness, the maze of saw blade selection.
First you need to decided what you will be using it for, crosscuts rips or combos, and material. Then diameter and kerf.
Performance is determined by both tooth grind and blade flatness and construction. If your cheap blade runs true and doesn't buckle if it gets warm then a good sharpener may be able to improve your results signifigantly, so given you've bought a couple of blades it would be worth measuring runout and if acceptable taking them to a sharpening service.
My table saw came with a "green" crosscut blade. Never heard of them. The saw is taiwanese. The blade is fantastic and I've often tried to buy another. Quiet, remarkably accurate and gives a finish straight off the blade not only good enough for glue but requires no further work. I'm naughty and often use it for rips, with care.
I suppose you can fret over brands but I suspect if you buy a "name" brand blade you will get very good results. It's worth poking about on ebay etc as diablo for instance is sold in various places for various prices.
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_odkw=diablo+crosscut+saw+blade&LH_PrefLoc=2&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xdiablo+combination+saw+blade.TRS0&_nkw=diablo+combination+saw+blade&_sacat=0
If you have bottomless pockets you could always try a forester...
https://www.forrestblades.com
Made by elves and fairies in a magical cloud kingdom they not only perform the cut but set up your saw and make you a cup of tea... :D
cava 4th December 2017, 03:50 PM Well, I bought the AKE 300mm 72 ATB tooth blade today and it looks the goods, and should certainly be a step up from my 40 tooth combination blade.
The old 40 tooth blade is also being sharpened, and I will use it for more utilitarian and ripping jobs. But the AKE will be for more fine work.
Hopefully, time permitting, I will get to play with it over the next week or so.
Thanks all for the help in spending my money. :D
Chris Parks 4th December 2017, 06:34 PM Blades absolutely vary in quality and the difference between a cheap one and a good one is miles apart.
I believe the technical term for brands like Toolstorm (and most anything else out of China) is "gahhhhbage". Go to a proper tool shop and buy yourself something half decent from a real brand.
Normally I would agree with that except for one thing. I needed a blade for my small Makita mitre saw and being an odd size I rang Henry Bros and they had a blade. When I received it the brand was some unknown Chinese made thing which did not impress me at all but I had to give it a go before complaining. Put simply it is the single best blade I have used on any mitre saw so it goes to show you can't judge a book by its cover.
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