too cold to glue up

[doug3030]

What a waste of a morning.

I have a big glue-up to do and it is still too cold at nearly midday.

6.7 degrees outside and the chalk point of Titebond 3 is 8.3333 degrees.

Lucky I am not using Titebond 2 or it might not happen at all today.

How did I finish up living in Melbourne?

[blackjaffa]

Glue indoors or a heater for your workshop

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[doug3030]

Glue indoors or a heater for your workshop

It would take too long to set up a big enough space in the shed. I have a space set up on the back deck where it is usually about 15 degrees and sunny by now.

[doug3030]

I can't win! Its now afternoon and the temperature has DROPPED to 6.4.

[blackjaffa]

Move to the gold coast min of 20°

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[Gabriel]

If ya didn't live here Doug, what would you complain about? Melbourne is great weather at the moment - only lost 1 day this year to rain!! (Bad point to that - I haven't had any shed days coz I haven't been home early).

Glue up - is that serious work bench plans coming to fruition?

[doug3030]

Glue up - is that serious work bench plans coming to fruition?

Laminating up the main part of the benchtop.

[coffenup]

What a waste of a morning.

I have a big glue-up to do and it is still too cold at nearly midday.

6.7 degrees outside and the chalk point of Titebond 3 is 8.3333 degrees.

Lucky I am not using Titebond 2 or it might not happen at all today.

How did I finish up living in Melbourne?Because you car broke down in Melbourne due to the cold and it would not restart

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[elanjacobs]

Use polyurethane, it's not temperature sensitive.

[Chief Tiff]

How did I finish up living in Melbourne?

Punishment for something in a past life... :D

[doug3030]

Move to the gold coast min of 20°

I'd rather go back to Darwin thanks.


Use polyurethane, it's not temperature sensitive.

Polyurethane is too messy and besides I want the bench to outlast me.


Punishment for something in a past life... :D

No, probably in this life. Melbourne is ok when daylight saving is on.

Anyway, I just got home from a medical appointment and it's 12 degrees on the back deck.

I better go and get the glue on this bench top so I can do some joinery on it tomorrow, if it's not raining.

Cheers

Doug

[elanjacobs]

Once you get to know how much to use, PU isn't much messier than PVA. As for outlasting you, PU will be fine; it's waterproof, thermally stable to over 100° and resistant to most solvents except the really nasty ones (like MEK)

[AlexS]

A well-known timber company found out about gluing in low temperatures a few years ago. They decided they could finger-joint off-cuts to make longer 3x2s. Trouble was, the first lot they tried, they tried to make in Tumut in winter. The PVA glue wasn't the same quality as Titebond, & had a higher chalk point.

It seemed like a good idea at the time.

[doug3030]

Jazzy69 asked for pictures: :cool:

Here is the section I laminated up this afternoon. There are two similar sections that will be laminated together to form the main part of the top and a shorter section along with a doghole row to complete the top, less the endcaps, vises and tool tray.

here is the picture:

417573

There will not be any more pictures. I would have loved to have done a full bench build WIP in the Workbench subforum, but with the way things are currently done around here at the moment, I know that this would cause me more grief than it is worth.

For a long time I thought it was just me that was being affected but I am now aware of several other members who have quit the forum completely or just stopped posting.

If the situation improves I may reconsider. I am taking photos as I go along anyway fr my own benefit.

Hopefully the members in Melbourne can see the completed bench at my Open Shed Day in October. See http://www.woodworkforums.com/f303/doug3030s-shed-day-2017-a-214152.

Cheers

Doug

[doug3030]

Once you get to know how much to use, PU isn't much messier than PVA. As for outlasting you, PU will be fine; it's waterproof, thermally stable to over 100° and resistant to most solvents except the really nasty ones (like MEK)

Thanks for that Elan, but I researched glue along with everything else prior to commencing and have bought a 3.857 litre (1 gallon) bottle of Titebond III which should see the project through. I have done glueups three days straight and my hands are still white. A little bit of lanolin cream each evening stops them drying out and cracking. I probably should be doing that in the winter here anyway.

As for how much glue to use, with a gallon there I would rather slap it on and let it squeeze out and know that it is not dry than mess about trying to minimise squeezeout and finish up with a weak joint.

Cheers

Doug

[Gabriel]

Is this 'that' time when you can show off all your clamps and say 'i told you I needed them all'
I hope you change your mind on a Wip, or at least do one on file for yourself to pass onto the grandkids when they inherit your bench as I know you have/are/will be pouring your hear and soul into this project.... Sure, some people paint ceilings on chapels, but us woodies make work benches :)

[doug3030]

Is this 'that' time when you can show off all your clamps and say 'i told you I needed them all'

Maybe I have more clamps than you think :2tsup:

But still I am going to need a few longer ones that can reach the full length of the bench before too much longer. Will probably pick up some long pipes for the pipe clamp heads I have - or do I go out and buy four of he biggest K-body Besseys?


I hope you change your mind on a Wip, or at least do one on file for yourself to pass onto the grandkids when they inherit your bench as I know you have/are/will be pouring your hear and soul into this project.... Sure, some people paint ceilings on chapels, but us woodies make work benches :)

I would love to share the progress with my friends on the forum, but history shows that that process would likely be interfered with. While I respect that the forum is a privately owned resource not public property and the owner has the right to control the content, there are those who are empowered to uphold that right who are, shall we say, a little bit over-zealous and biased in the application of their duty. I do not wish to start another WIP only to have to tailor the content to suit the whim of one such person, or to have them edit my content to suit their own personal beliefs and opinions. As a former soldier with PTSD I do not need that aggravation as well.

Having said that, I would be delighted to show off the bench and discuss the build with my forum friends at my Open Shed Day or any other time they wish to drop in, by previous arrangement of course.

Cheers

Doug

[Gabriel]

Completely understand and will catch up sometime with a list of questions :)

Doubt you'll need them but I have 2 @ 1m k body clamps you're welcome to borrow if required.... Just keep it in mind.

[coffenup]

I'd rather go back to Darwin thanks.



Polyurethane is too messy and besides I want the bench to outlast me.



No, probably in this life. Melbourne is ok when daylight saving is on.

Anyway, I just got home from a medical appointment and it's 12 degrees on the back deck.

I better go and get the glue on this bench top so I can do some joinery on it tomorrow, if it's not raining.

Cheers

DougDoug 3030 you should try going to and from a doctors appointment on a mobility scooter when it's under 10deg then you will know what cold is

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[doug3030]

Completely understand and will catch up sometime with a list of questions :)

Doubt you'll need them but I have 2 @ 1m k body clamps you're welcome to borrow if required.... Just keep it in mind.

They may be just long enough to stretch over the benchtop and the shoulder vise, which my k-bodys are a bit short for, so thanks for the offer, I will bear it in mind. :2tsup:

Cheers

Doug

[doug3030]

Doug 3030 you should try going to and from a doctors appointment on a mobility scooter when it's under 10deg then you will know what cold is

In the 1990's when I was in the army living in Canberra I used to ride a pushbike to work at minus 8 degrees. I lived on top of a steep hill that you could do 80 km/h down without needing to pedal to keep warm for the first 800 metres. I think that qualifies for knowing what cold is. One day when I was in Canberra the maximum temperature for the day was minus 1. The sun never broke through the fog at all. Not a good glue-up day either.

[coffenup]

In the 1990's when I was in the army living in Canberra I used to ride a pushbike to work at minus 8 degrees. I lived on top of a steep hill that you could do 80 km/h down without needing to pedal to keep warm for the first 800 metres. I think that qualifies for knowing what cold is. One day when I was in Canberra the maximum temperature for the day was minus 1. The sun never broke through the fog at all. Not a good glue-up day either.Dorry

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[coffenup]

Dorry

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[Glider]

I use Titebond III as well as PU at Oberon with nary a problem. We had -13C a couple of weeks ago and some days max out at <5C. Alas, no heater in the shed.

All my glues are stored in an esky. If PVA glues freeze, the emulsified phase lumps up and never recovers. I can only use hide glue between October and April.

mick

[doug3030]

We had -13C a couple of weeks ago and some days max out at <5C. Alas, no heater in the shed.

All my glues are stored in an esky. If PVA glues freeze, the emulsified phase lumps up and never recovers. I can only use hide glue between October and April.

Not sure what the maximum will be today but at 9am today it was 2 degrees, compared to 5.7 yesterday at the same time. not looking good again.

If there was a bit of sunshine I could drag the jointer and thicknesser out into the sunshine and dress up some other parts, but that's not looking likely either.

The shed is a bit big for a heater to be very effective or economical when it is this cold outside. My bottle of Titebond III is in the (heated) loungeroom.

[rustynail]

A set of cheap, portable floodlights on a stand should solve your problem. Timber absorbs the heat and the glue dries in no time. I'm 20 metres below the snow line here, works fine for both gluing and spray finishing.

[doug3030]

A set of cheap, portable floodlights on a stand should solve your problem. Timber absorbs the heat and the glue dries in no time.

It only got up to 8 degrees today so no glue up happened.

RN, I have a cheap pair of portable floodlights, but I don't think they would help much. they are LED ones that were cheap because I got them just before Masters closed. Great for light in the shed and generally preferred for NOT generating heat.

Cheers

Doug

[Cornards]

Too cold in Melbourne...! You should live up here in Canberra! Anyway, sorry for not offering up any suggestions but I hope everything turned out alright.

[doug3030]

You should live up here in Canberra!

No I shouldn't. I have tried that.

Progress of some sort is being made every day.

Cheers

Doug

[Chief Tiff]

Hi Doug;

Do you have room for a greenhouse type enclosure? A simple skillion roofed wood-framed structure with acrylic/polycarbonate roofing material on the roof and sides; can be made to be easily dismantled into flat pack and stored behind the shed, only coming out on freezing winter days when you need a glue-up?

Probably a little bit overkill, but providing the sun is shining the temperature inside it will be much warmer than out.

[doug3030]

Probably a little bit overkill, but ...

Hi Chief, definitely overkill, I think. I started the thread in frustration of having a big glue-up to do and it coincided with a fairly rare long cold snap that was hampering progress.It's not normal for August.

Today the sun is shining and it is 14 degrees on the back deck. More like what I would expect.

I'm still not sure as to whether to blame the unusually cold weather on global warming or just normal unpredictable Melbourne weather.

Cheers

Doug

[A Duke]

Hi Doug,
At least with that many excuses, it is not your fault.
:wink:
Regards

[doug3030]

At least with that many excuses, it is not your fault. :wink:

If I had done the glue-up at a temperature below the chalk temperature of the glue and the joints failed, that would have been my fault. :oo:

I can't see how it has become a fault-finding exercise. I made a remark about blaming the weather but that is a variable that we have to work around, not an excuse. Not sure what you are getting at. :?

Despite the unavoidable setback the job is proceeding very nicely thanks. :wink:

Cheers

Doug :2tsup:

[Handyjack]

Just blame the politicians. They can stuff up any thing. Us voters can complain about the weather but the politicians do nothing about it!