Is this Waddi Wood?

[bdfairlie]

Several weeks ago a friend came to me with a nondescript looking piece of wood about 300mm long and 80 - 90mm in diameter and asked me whether I could turn her a pepper grinder from it. It was obviously the top portion of an old fence post. It was also HEAVY.
I agreed, and proceeded to turn a fairly standard pepper grinder. It was immediately obvious that this wood was HARD. But, using previous experience gained turning 100 year old red gum, I quickly found that it reacted very well to scraping, but tools still needed to be sharpened very frequently.
On completing the turning of the grinder, I began to wonder what this wood could be. A bit of investigation with Dr Google quickly showed that Waddi wood was a good candidate. And the source of my friends wood was consistent with this identification. But continued reeading showed just how rare this wood was - I couldn't find any photographs to compare it with!
So I thought I would tap into the collective wisdom of this forum to see whether you think that this could possibly be Waddi wood or, if not, what else it could be. Your thoughts and suggestions would be very welcome

Bruce

PS: I sanded and polished (EEE) the cut end of the off-cut top of the post just to show what the grain looks like. Fantastic isn't it. I had a go at counting growth rings but gave up and was satisfied with "a lot" - also consistent with a slow grower like waddi wood.

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[powderpost]

From the information and descriptions, it certainly looks like waddi, but cannot confirm this. It is similar to a known sample. If you want or need a definite answer, contact Jugo Illic, there will probably a fee for his services
Jim

[Gabriel]

I'd be asking where the fence was it came from, and offering to 'replace the old run down fence' and remove the 'waste' just for the cost of materials.
Any shots of the completed grinder?
Looks like lovely timber

[bdfairlie]

Here are a couple of photographs of the completed grinder. Has o be the heaviest grinder ever made!

I am delivering the grinder tomorrow so I will ask about the possibility of gaining access to the remaider of the fence.

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[dai sensei]

Nice job, end result looks great.

As to whether it is Waddy Wood, from the first photos I was thinking no (especially being a fence), but seeing the finished photos it could be. Can't say I have ever heard someone making a fence from it, but I guess cockies make fences from anything locally hard like acacias, and if the fence was constructed where it grows I guess it could well be given its age.

If the whole fence is from Waddy, yes a few of us would offer to replace it for them :rolleyes:. I'd be looking at adjacent properties too :U

ps what happened to the scraps? Even they could be cast up into something

[bdfairlie]

I spoke to provider of the wood today when I delivered the grinder. She says that it came from a private property in the right area for it to be Waddy wood. Sold to her as firewood! I have pleaded with her not to burn it! She says that some of it is fairly well rotted, but as you point out, even small bits would be worth rescuing.
She has some more and I am confident that I can get hold of at least some of it.
She asked me what she should do with the rest if it. I suggested that any number of wood turners would love to get hold of some, even in quite small bits (pen blanks?). How much interest is there, and how much do you think people might be willing to pay? Given what people are willing to pay for burls these days, I imagine it might be quite a lot!

[dai sensei]

I'd be interested in some but it would depend on the size and condition. I buy burl at $5-$15/kg could be a starting point I guess, or perhaps an auction of lots??

[Gabriel]

I'd put my hand up for some too..... And if it's in Vic I'm happy to help out with transportation or machining up sizes of that helps at all....

Would love to get my hands on some!!

[Bagmann]

Hi all, just to add an opinion, I have a friend who is a member of the wood collectors society and he has some waddy wood ( only a small piece mind you) and it has a very purple colour to its heart wood and distinctive yellow sap wood. The piece pictured appears to be more like gidgee, but I could be very wrong.

[WOODbTURNER]

Hi all, just to add an opinion, I have a friend who is a member of the wood collectors society and he has some waddy wood ( only a small piece mind you) and it has a very purple colour to its heart wood and distinctive yellow sap wood. The piece pictured appears to be more like gidgee, but I could be very wrong.

I was given some from south of Alice Springs, Old Andado Station awhile back and it also had a purple brown colour to it. It's where it gets its name from - Acacia Peuce and it is the hardest wood I have turned.

[Mobyturns]

I agree that it is unlikely to be Waddi Wood and more likely to be Gidgee.

Woodturners should be cautious in collecting or receiving specimens of Waddi Wood as it is listed under the EPBCA1999 as a "threatened species" and is also offered protections under NT & QLD environmental legislation. Cultural heritage legislation also comes into effect as stands of Waddi Wood have cultural significance to indigeneous groups in the endemic range of Acacia peuce. The NT govt has been fencing standa of waddi wood to prevent grazing cattle from foraging seedlings. Acacia peuce does not create a seed bank in the soil but relies upon annual seed production and rare extreme rainfall events to establish seedlings. Trees are believed to live to 500 years or more.

With the increasing threats to the long term survival of threatened populations the conservation groups and authorities are also using more sophisticated methods of monitoring threats. Beware!

[WOODbTURNER]

I agree that it is unlikely to be Waddi Wood and more likely to be Gidgee.

Woodturners should be cautious in collecting or receiving specimens of Waddi Wood as it is listed under the EPBCA1999 as a "threatened species" and is also offered protections under NT & QLD environmental legislation. Cultural heritage legislation also comes into effect as stands of Waddi Wood have cultural significance to indigeneous groups in the endemic range of Acacia peuce. The NT govt has been fencing standa of waddi wood to prevent grazing cattle from foraging seedlings. Acacia peuce does not create a seed bank in the soil but relies upon annual seed production and rare extreme rainfall events to establish seedlings. Trees are believed to live to 500 years or more.

With the increasing threats to the long term survival of threatened populations the conservation groups and authorities are also using more sophisticated methods of monitoring threats. Beware!

Moby I can assure you that the pieces I turned were legally collected.

[bdfairlie]

421509421508

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I apologise for not responding sooner but I have been overseas for several weeks.
On reviewing my original post, I realized that the photograph did not portray the true colour of this wood - I think the colour temperature was a bit off. So I re-photographed another piece, but this time with a sheet of white paper as background to ensure that I got the colours just right. The second picture is just a close up of the first in a (relatively unsucessful) attempt to show the end grain.

To those of you that thought the lack of purple colouration was a telling reason to doubt that this was waddywood, I think the new photograph may change your mind. In the flesh, this wood has a distinct purpleish brown colour to it.
Mobyturns; Bagmann: At first I tended to agree with you that this could well be a piece of gidgee. So I decided to try to get a measurement if the specific gravity of the wood. I machined an accurate cylinder (that you see in the photograph) that was just under 50 mm in diameter and a bit over 32 mm high. The culated volume of the cylinder was 62.02 cubic cm and it weighed 79.5 gm. This gives a specific gravity of 1.28. I estimate that the error in this measurement is plus or minus 0.02.
The Wood Database quotes the specific gravity at 12% moisture content as 1.43 for Waddiwood and 1.15 for Gidgee. There are a couple of reasons why my sample would have a lower specific gravity than that quoted: it includes several shakes and non-uniformities, and, while I have no way of measuring its moisture content, it is obviously extremely dry (as you might expect having been exposed to the climate of the Simpson desert as a fence post for many years).
On the basis of these measurements, I now doubt that it is Gidgee.

Having just about convinced myself that this was indeed Waddiwood, I moved on to the niceties of putting it up for sale. I am now well aware that Waddiwood is on the endangered list in the NT and on the vulnerable list for NSW (and QLD I think). It appears that to sell something on the endangered list, one must be able to establish where it came from and how it was obtained. While I am confident that this sample was obtained legally, I have no way of proving it! What does this mean if I now try to sell it?

Any suggestions wuld be very much appreciated.

[dai sensei]

Hmm, all I can see are 2 blurry photos

[bdfairlie]

Hi Dai

Do you mean that you can ONLY see two blurry photographs (no text) or that the photographs ar blurry? Either way I do not know what I can do to fix it - the post, including the photographs, appears fine on my monitor!

[dai sensei]

Hi Dai

Do you mean that you can ONLY see two blurry photographs (no text) or that the photographs ar blurry? Either way I do not know what I can do to fix it - the post, including the photographs, appears fine on my monitor!

I can see the text and photos on the screen, but both photos are blurry to me when I click to zoom in, so I can't see any detail nor can I see any purple.

[mummatoni]

Several weeks ago a friend came to me with a nondescript looking piece of wood about 300mm long and 80 - 90mm in diameter and asked me whether I could turn her a pepper grinder from it. It was obviously the top portion of an old fence post. It was also HEAVY.
I agreed, and proceeded to turn a fairly standard pepper grinder. It was immediately obvious that this wood was HARD. But, using previous experience gained turning 100 year old red gum, I quickly found that it reacted very well to scraping, but tools still needed to be sharpened very frequently.
On completing the turning of the grinder, I began to wonder what this wood could be. A bit of investigation with Dr Google quickly showed that Waddi wood was a good candidate. And the source of my friends wood was consistent with this identification. But continued reeading showed just how rare this wood was - I couldn't find any photographs to compare it with!
So I thought I would tap into the collective wisdom of this forum to see whether you think that this could possibly be Waddi wood or, if not, what else it could be. Your thoughts and suggestions would be very welcome

Bruce

PS: I sanded and polished (EEE) the cut end of the off-cut top of the post just to show what the grain looks like. Fantastic isn't it. I had a go at counting growth rings but gave up and was satisfied with "a lot" - also consistent with a slow grower like waddi wood.

417933417934417935Have no idea what waddees wood but coming from Winton and the fact was sold as firewood and for that alone I say your dealing with gidgee as can't beat that for firewood she a good heat for hours and hours and as you said hard as hobs as hell to turn.

keep on plugging away

[robyn2839]

yes I agree its gidgee waddy is dark purple,almost black in color,I get it around birdsville ,will see if I still have a photo

[robyn2839]

The Waddi tree (Acacia peuce) is found only in three locations in Australia. Updated <time class="relative undefined" datetime="Mon Sep 01 2014 11:13:32 GMT+1000 (AEST)" data-format="l" title="Mon 1 Sep 2014, 11:13am">1 Sep 2014, 11:13am</time>
Waddi tree populations have shrunk back to only three on the edges of the Simpson Desert.
Supplied: Desert Channels Group

[Longrass]

Hi BD,

I have really enjoyed reading this post and the photos. I am a Texas with a kee interest in the ironwoods. I have a block the densest America wood: black ironwood from Florida, and some Mexican Sanoran ironwood. Of course, lots of mesquite as well..but waddywood is indeed the densest.

I look forward to reading more about this species. Glad to be a new member to this forum!

Cheers,
Lon

[TTIT]

....As to whether it is Waddy Wood, from the first photos I was thinking no (especially being a fence), but seeing the finished photos it could be. Can't say I have ever heard someone making a fence from it, but I guess cockies make fences from anything locally hard like acacias, and if the fence was constructed where it grows I guess it could well be given its age................
I've got Waddi from 3 different trees out in the shed and none of them look anything like that :shrug:

The first piece I got came with the story that stockyards out that way were often made from Waddi and have been standing since the area was first settled. One of the cockies has supposed to have said that you can take as much as you like . . . as long as you replace it with railway-line - makes it a little difficult :;

[brainstrust]

I'd say def not waddi and also def it looks nice:)

[Euge]

The pics posted of the fence post do NOT look like waddywood to me. The most characteristic feature of this old wood is its very dark purple colour, not how it works, finishes etc. Nor does the grinder look like waddywood. (It could be another outback acacia (there are many and all dense hard with dark brown heartwoods, many fragrant. ... unlike waddywood.)

If fence post was from a remote waddywood area it could have been but going by its appearance I'd say not its not waddy wood. For pics of the real wood see below or Timber Forum

469873 469875

old Log cross section left & flat-sawn section on right both showing old heartwood

[Euge]

Hi all, just to add an opinion, I have a friend who is a member of the wood collectors society and he has some waddy wood ( only a small piece mind you) and it has a very purple colour to its heart wood and distinctive yellow sap wood. The piece pictured appears to be more like gidgee, but I could be very wrong.

As you say members of this society IWCS have authentic samples. (I've been an active member for 30 years and writer about desert woods and trees for that long too.)

Here below is a pic of a branch stub about 40mm dia showing heartwood, sapwood and bark. It was cut 20+ yrs ago and is authentic. The colur is distorted a bit

469886

[Euge]

421509421508

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I apologise for not responding sooner but I have been overseas for several weeks.
On reviewing my original post, I realized that the photograph did not portray the true colour of this wood - I think the colour temperature was a bit off. So I re-photographed another piece, but this time with a sheet of white paper as background to ensure that I got the colours just right. The second picture is just a close up of the first in a (relatively unsucessful) attempt to show the end grain.

To those of you that thought the lack of purple colouration was a telling reason to doubt that this was waddywood, I think the new photograph may change your mind. In the flesh, this wood has a distinct purpleish brown colour to it.
Mobyturns; Bagmann: At first I tended to agree with you that this could well be a piece of gidgee. So I decided to try to get a measurement if the specific gravity of the wood. I machined an accurate cylinder (that you see in the photograph) that was just under 50 mm in diameter and a bit over 32 mm high. The culated volume of the cylinder was 62.02 cubic cm and it weighed 79.5 gm. This gives a specific gravity of 1.28. I estimate that the error in this measurement is plus or minus 0.02.
The Wood Database quotes the specific gravity at 12% moisture content as 1.43 for Waddiwood and 1.15 for Gidgee. There are a couple of reasons why my sample would have a lower specific gravity than that quoted: it includes several shakes and non-uniformities, and, while I have no way of measuring its moisture content, it is obviously extremely dry (as you might expect having been exposed to the climate of the Simpson desert as a fence post for many years).
On the basis of these measurements, I now doubt that it is Gidgee.

Having just about convinced myself that this was indeed Waddiwood, I moved on to the niceties of putting it up for sale. I am now well aware that Waddiwood is on the endangered list in the NT and on the vulnerable list for NSW (and QLD I think). It appears that to sell something on the endangered list, one must be able to establish where it came from and how it was obtained. While I am confident that this sample was obtained legally, I have no way of proving it! What does this mean if I now try to sell it?

Any suggestions wuld be very much appreciated.


That wood colour shown above is much closer to what I know of this species, even though density is not quite high enough.
My measurements (on the block I showed) are about 1.42 g/cc.
The turned original fence post colour and shaker look nothing like it IMO. Colour is one of the most distinctive wood properties of this species.
Your contact should be able to confirm its origins etc