Shellac first time

[DaveVman]

As a beginner I was advised to start out with shellac. I had been using polyurethane or paint because that's what I had lying around. But I don't really like the polyurethane. It's good for hard wearing surfaces but not for everything.
I'm using the shellac on a small project that might be handled a lot. So far I'm impressed. I am wiping it on with a rag. It's working well.
I have only done 3 coats so far. How many coats should I do?
I do a coat and leave it at least overnight. However I suspect this isn't necessary. It seems to be touch dry in a few minutes.
How long should I let it dry between coats?

Thanks in advance.


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[Lyle]

I thought 24 hours but it depends on several factors as far as I know, temp, humidity, timber used on, age of shellac etc.
Will the shellac stand up to a lot of handling though? I had thought it too soft for that.
Photos??
Lyle.

[DaveVman]

I thought 24 hours but it depends on several factors as far as I know, temp, humidity, timber used on, age of shellac etc.
Will the shellac stand up to a lot of handling though? I had thought it too soft for that.
Photos??
Lyle.It's just 2 small candle holders. However I've noticed already the design is such that people can't resist picking them up to examine and run their fingers over them.
I'll get a photo but I wanted to finish them first.

I'm in SE QLD so it's humid and hot this time of year. I mixed the shellac the other month. After I wipe on the shellac its dry to the touch in a few minutes. Now I have 3 coats on I'm not really clear what another 24+ hours is going to do between coats. After the first coat, I'm not sanding between other coats because I can't feel or see any flaws in the finish.

Probably I'm doing it all wrong so happy to get advice.


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[Xanthorrhoeas]

It really depends on how thickly you are putting it on. Presuming that it is well-thinned coats then you do not need anywhere near 24 hours. I'm in Brisbane too and, when I polish I put the next coat on with the rubber as soon as it is touch dry - more like 5 minutes at most. Number of coats - well how much gloss do you want? It is better to put on more coats than less and then to control the gloss level by rubbing back with 0000 steel wool and waxing when the finish is dry - leave it at least 24 hours for that. Shellac hardens further over time and does become very hard wearing. Handling with fingers should be fine, especially if you have waxed well with a high Carnauba and other hard wax final finish (UBeaut's Traditional wax is my favourite but Balck Bison wax is good too - NOT beeswax, it stays sticky).

I have shellac finished items from 1800 through to the 1940s and all have stood the test of time.

[Xanthorrhoeas]

Sorry, I would put about 20 thin coats on and rub back between every 5.

[DaveVman]

Sorry, I would put about 20 thin coats on and rub back between every 5.A spindle sander, a track saw, a vice, a thicknesser and a dust collector.
I didn't think she would notice but I can hardly get inside the shed now so I'm pretty sure she's on to me.

Haha
I lie.
She's very supportive. She came with me and encourages me. In fact she suggested I buy a disc sander as well but I'll wait for that beast.

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[Enfield Guy]

You have some reference material to pick up from me Dave. Give me a ring tomorrow champ.

[fletty]

I recently did a shellac repair project (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f173/6-drawer-dresser-211942) ....but rushed it! There was a hot period just as I finished it and the shellac ‘blistered’ and it had to be redone :~!
A careful look showed me that all of the blisters had formed where the whole thickness was newly applied shellac. There were no blisters where I had added thickness to pre-existing shellac? What I THINK has happened is that the repairs back to bare timber started with a stain and I didn’t leave it long enough for the volatiles in the stain to escape/ draw off? When I applied the shellac, the volatiles still leaving the stain caused the blisters? SO, how long you leave each application of shellac probably also depends on what’s underneath. My current method is

If there is stain, leave it for 24 hours to fully draw
minimum time between applications of shellac is 2 hours
minimum time before applying wax on top of the shellac is 72 hours

It might be overkill but I don’t want the heartbreak of walking back into the shed and finding a restored piece with a bad case of measles again?
fletty

[DaveVman]

Unfortunately I don't have any wax but I should order some for the future.

I thought I was finished but I sprayed some other items with white enamel then put the final coat of shellac on these items. There was white paint on my gloves. End result was I got specks of white on the items I was shellacing. (is that a word?). So I sanded those off and I'll do another coat or 2 of shellac.

Only thing is I think I have more shellac in my rag than I do on the work pieces. So I think there must be a technique to learn.


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[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I thought I was finished but I sprayed some other items with white enamel then put the final coat of shellac on these items. There was white paint on my gloves. End result was I got specks of white on the items I was shellacing. (is that a word?). So I sanded those off and I'll do another coat or 2 of shellac.

If the last coat was very recent and the containant is in that coat, it is possible to simply wipe down the surface with a metho wetted cloth to gently remove the contaminated layer. This is a method I'd recomend practising on scrap pieces first, as it can also totally ruin the entire finish if you aren't careful.

It's not a method I'd recommend as common practise but it is one that has saved me face on occasion. :-


Only thing is I think I have more shellac in my rag than I do on the work pieces. So I think there must be a technique to learn

There are always new techniques to learn.


What I THINK has happened is that the repairs back to bare timber started with a stain and I didn’t leave it long enough for the volatiles in the stain to escape/ draw off?

I think you're probably right there Fletty... but isn't one of the first rules of finishing (if your applying coats of different products) to make damned sure that previous coats are 100% dry before proceeding? :wink:

When using Shellac I've found the application method really makes a huge difference to recoat times. I'm another who only waits 5 to 10 mins when dabbing on thin coats with a rubber and I can generally build up a good few 'coats worth' of an evening.

There have been times when I've applied relatively thick coats with a brush. Those I definitely leave overnight, if not longer, whether it's a flood coat for grain filler or just a cheap 'n hasty finish due to... 'production environment concerns.' :rolleyes:

[derekcohen]

I tend to use Ubeaut White Shellac (not sure where you'll find it. It is quite uncommon stuff :) ). Thin with metho, and rub on. It dries withing 30 seconds. Denib with grey mesh (about 400 grit), and do another coat immediately. The number of coats depends on what you wish to achieve. Shellac is fast.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Xanthorrhoeas]

The white shellac is a dewaxed product and available through all of Ubeaut's suppliers (No, I do not work for any of them) Carbatec, Carrols (CWS) etc. The UBeaut white shellac certainly gives less coloration than the brown or ruby etc. shellacs. Personally, I started with Australian antique furniture repairs and I love the brown button shellac that is very waxy. The high wax content mens a good bond with a final wax finish, I have found, as well as imparting a richness not seen with the white shellac. BUT, it is horses for courses, I recently finished a sideboard for my daughter with Hard Shellac (UBeaut's docs say it is based on the white shellac with cross-linking added for moisture and heat resistance). The primary reason is that Gen Y and their friends seem to be incapable of avoiding putting hot and wet glasses/cups/mugs on furniture so I sought to give the best protection I could while using a traditional finish.

[DaveVman]

Yes I got the shellac and solvent from Goods and Chattels. Always good to support a local mum and dad business.

It IS a brownish tint finish but I like that compared to the clear finishes I was doing. I suppose I might feel different if I had some beautiful grain and colour from some more valuable timber I wanted to highlight.

When applying by rag. Am I supposed to reuse the previously used part of the rag?

The rag goes hard when the shellac dries so I used a new section of the rag each time. However I'm sure I've put a lot more shellac into the rag than actually on the work pieces.

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