Struggling

[pkroeze]

Hi all,

If you just want to skip to the question it's in the last 2 lines.


The last few days I've finally got to spend a bit of time turning, it's my first attempt and to be honest I'm struggling.
Back a about fortnight I decided to do a bowl so I mounted a pine sacrificial block on my face plate and hot glued a small Tasmanian Blackwood blank to it. This is where the mistakes start

Mistake 1./ I started to do the inside of the bowl first, don't worry I didn't get very far, every time I started cutting I would get a catch

Mistake 2./ After quite a few catches, the bowl came flying off the face plate, thankfully not at me. At this point I put it away for a couple weeks. Lesson learned don't just attach 4 screws to the blank, attach all 8.


Returned to the project on Tuesday and decided that I would do the normal thing and do the bottom of the bowl instead as I hadn't taken all that much material off. The bowl gouge again gave me a couple of catches so I decided to switch to a scraper. Finally something I can control and make progress with :D.


I have watched a bunch of videos as well as read a book and a magazine on turning so I understand the techniques but I'm just not applying them well, but I'll practice.


Anyway the back of the bowl is done, it's only small maybe 100mm diameter 50mm deep. My question is how do I attach this bowl to my face plate? Hot gluing the bottom of the bowl to the sacrificial block doesn't seem safe unless I maybe turned a concave bit into it. All I have is a 100mm face-plate and a live centre.

[Nubsnstubs]

Maybe you should have made the bottom flat, turn the desired shape, then mount the bottom onto the face plate, hog out the inside, then make a jam chuck and turn off any unsightly stuff if you have the thickness.

Personally, I use a chuck and my Chuck Plate to turn a tenon and shape the outside, then remove the Chuck Plate and hog out the inside. When done, I use my Chuck Plate and a rim chuck to remove the tenon down to a small nub, 17mm/5/8" od, and the use my Tail Stock Steady to remove all traces of the nub while still between centers. I make it a habit to decorate all my bottoms, including putting finials if there is room. The bottom should look as good as the rest of the bowl. ........... Jerry (in Tucson) USA Wood Turning Tools | Tucson | WoodTurners WorkHolding Solutions (http://www.woodturnerstools.com)

[pkroeze]

Thanks nubsnstubs. I'll keep that in mind for the next one.

[Willy Nelson]

Hello PKROZE (must be from Tasmania :wink:)

I reckon you should look around and see if there is a wood turning club in your area. Attend and ensure that it suits you and if so, join. You will learns heaps from like minded people, plus it will open a lot of doors to other things.

Secondly, if you can afford to buy a chuck, then do so. There a lot of good chucks out there, but I reckon some of the best are Vicmarc.

Lastly, you may benefit from paying for some tuition. The benefits of 1 on 1 will see your turning improve heaps and should avoid all catches.

Hope this helps
Sincerely
Willy
Jarrahland

[Gary H]

I agree with Willy - if you can locate a local woodturning club it will make life a lot easier. Failing that, check out Mens Sheds Tasmania as there are two in your area and a good chance that their membership will include some wood turners.

Stay safe, and have fun,
Gary H

[DaveTTC]

It could be a combination of chisels not sharp enough amd trying to take too much off at once.

Keep us posted. I'll watxh this space

DaveTTC
The Turning Cowboy
Turning Wood Into Art

[pkroeze]

Righto thanks for the advice, I reckon I will visit a mens shed. I may be getting a chuck as a present soon but who knows. I reckon your right Dave, the chisels i'm using are borrowed and they needed a very comprehensive clean up, I also only hand sharpened them quickly as I don't have a bench grinder.

[Gassy]

I'd personally recommend starting off by turning between centres, that way the work piece is held pretty securely . I'd also recommend turning spindles (keep it fairly short, say under 30cm) to learn to use the tools as catches tend to have less force behind them due to a smaller radius work piece. Straight grain pine is fairly cheap and Bunnings here sells square stuff free of knots, perfect for practice as it's soft and mistakes are less terrifying. The Tas oak is also good practice wood but slightly more pricey.

The thing is though, learn to shave the wood before you try deeper cuts, i.e. imagine you're trying to shave whiskers off and go in very, very gently, there really should be very little force from the wood to your tool if you have the feed and angles right but those come with practice.

[artful bodger]

If you can watch someone who knows how to turn, it is probably the best way to learn.

[KBs PensNmore]

Another good suggestion would be to get yourself a grinder and then be taught how to sharpen your chisels, a blunt chisel is dangerous, and disheartening. DAMHIKT.
A SHARP chisel should peel of shavings like ribbons of a potato peeler at high speed, and a joy to use.
Catches are a real problem, watching YouTube clips doesn't really help, as I've yet to find a clip that is more informative than showy.
As others have mentioned, get some one on one training with someone WHO KNOWS what they're doing.
Have seen some Mens Shed carachters that THINK they know what they're doing, apart from teaching bad habits!!!!
Kryn

[jaybird]

Just a suggestion, when I started out and after about a year of reading tutorials and having a go I decided to to find somewhere to do a course in woodturning. I ended up doing a course with Neil at an old building in Newstead which put me on the right track and a year after this did another weekend course with Vic Wood who brushed up on my new skills and set me on a course to be able to turn some good work. Both of these cured a huge amount of frustration which otherwise might have seen me throw the chisels in the corner of the shed. I guess the moral of the story if see if you can find someone who really knows what they doing and get their help, it can save many hours of anquish and failures.
Cheers

[Sturdee]

Have seen some Men's Shed characters that THINK they know what they're doing, apart from teaching bad habits!!!!
Kryn

Fully agree with that Kryn, I have seen some terrible teaching habits at Men's sheds, not woodturning but other types of woodwork.

Go to a wood turning club instead.

Peter.

[Treecycle]

Try watching this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBNAkRe9bxw) video by one of our own and you might see some things in there that help you out.

[pkroeze]

Thanks all for the advice, I'll take it on board.

[Gassy]

Catches are a real problem, watching YouTube clips doesn't really help, as I've yet to find a clip that is more informative than showy.
Kryn

The series by Stuart Batty on Vimeo is excellent. He explains grain well, and explains catches in a way that helped me understand what was going on - basically an unsupported edge is being engaged into the wood causing the tool to move/rotate and dig in. With a supported edge the force is always directly down into the tool rest.
https://vimeo.com/woodturning

[smiife]

There is a series by Stuart Batty on Vimeo is excellent. He explains grain well, and explains catches in a way that helped me understand what was going on - basically an unsupported edge is being engaged into the wood causing the tool to move/rotate and dig in. With a supported edge the force is always directly down into the tool rest.
https://vimeo.com/woodturning

Hi gassy , stuart batty Is very good , tried the link it doesn, t seem to connect
to any videos ? Maybe I am doing something wrong !

[pommyphil]

Just try a search on Youtube for Stewart Batty, and Allan Batty while your at it.:) Phil

[Lidcombe]

Try this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMVGankeK0I
I think vimeo link is shown in this youtube. Good stuff!!
I have watched this 4 or five times ( no kidding ) and they have been a great help to me.

[Fumbler]

my first bowl was done whilst I had a book open behind the lathe, id done quite a lot of successful spindle turning before I attempted a bowl, which still amazes me as the chuck wouldn't seat properly and wobbled, anyway im drifting, the book I was referring to was this book (much to my stupidity my local library used to sell old boos that never got borrowed, but as I kept borrowing it, it never came on sale).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Two-One-Woodturning-Phil-Irons/dp/1840922435

Anyway its a good book, and shows lots of techniques.

Lastly, i wouldn't use pine for a waste block (unless being held by a chuck, even then I'd be nervous), it splits too easily. anyway many might disagree with me.

[Lidcombe]

1. Always wear a face-shield and safety glasses. Voice of experience. I use and Armadillo face-shield. ( I cleaned the front of the shield , then put on a 7" tablet screen protector,: the viewing area is protected and the screen protector can be easily replaced.
2. I also wear an "Air-Shield" dust mask ( from carbitec )
3. Use sharp tools. To sharpen a blunt tool should only take a couple of seconds on a grinder. You are not reshaping the tool, just refreshing the edge, zip-zip any your done. For $20 I made a set of gigs to fir may 35 year old 6" bench grinder.
4. I learned a lot from watching Stewart Batty, he seemed to tale sense to me. I made up a word doc on the seven fundamentals ( now pdf ) attached.
5. My biggest problem was speed, I was running far to slow. See speed charts.429663
6. I invested in a vicmarc VM-100. Cost more than my GMC belt driven 4 speed lathe, but well worth it. As for glue blocks, I only used hardwood. Not Plywood ( voice of experience.) and not pine. I made a 3" faceplate out of a bolt welded to a piece of 5mm. plate with 3 screw holes and have not had any problems so far.429665429666
7. I prefer pva glue, with 24 hr. setting time for glue blocks.

I have made a number of gigs ( i live in a small country town 420 kms from Adelaide ) so rely on online ordering.
I hope this helps. I have had good support from
Timberbits - Pen Turning & Woodworking (http://www.timberbits.com/)
https://www.cwsonline.com.au/index.html
Regards Tony A. ( Lidcombe )

[pkroeze]

Yeah, I have a face shield and glasses on always, plus a dust mask (the replaceable filter variety, not powered), very aware of safety as I'm not that confident and occasionally have my 1-year-old daughter and 4-year-old son walking around my legs. Yes, I stop working when they come within 10 metres. I do enjoy having them around though and have made sure they're always protected too. My boy loves putting on his safety glasses and ear muffs. I let him watch and join in on the stuff I'm comfortable with but that doesn't include the lathe yet.

Thanks for the PDF Lidcombe, I'll definitely check out Stewart Batty too. Sadly this week and next all my spare time is already entirely booked out, so it's probably a fortnight before I get back to the lathe and then a week later I'm traveling for 3 weeks. 1 week of woodwork in 6 is no good, going to need extended therapy at the end. :p

I will toss the pine sacrificial block away then. I know how to sharpen butt chisels with a stone and wet and dry sandpaper but I have no experience doing that with gouges and it seems impractical to say the least. I also don't have a bench grinder at the moment. I wonder would the face of a grinding wheel on a 4" grinder work?

[Shady01]

There seems to be several disparaging comments about the help that might be available from the members of a Men's Shed. Although woodwork is a popular activity in a lot of Men's Shed and a lot of guys get a lot of pleasure from it, the main reason for a "shed" is to offer a place where men can get together in an environment that is conducive to the values that are peculiarly male. You may or may not find an expert in the activity you are interested in, you may only find another enthusiastic novice who is willing to share the learning experience,But if one of you can make a cup of coffee then that's what a shed is all about. You want a place where there is a professional teacher- Try TAFE

[dextadog]

There is some good advice so far. I have found nobody is 100 per cent right. Spend some money/time at library and access publications by acknowledged experts. Two expat poms I have found and followed that have differences but have influenced me in my convictions and attitudes to turning are available at most good library. . Richard raffin, down to earth and mike darlow a purest. Both worth the time and consideration to influence your approach to turning. If you are lucky enough to find someone at a mens shed who has been influenced by these men you have it made. Do the spindle thing first you should not stuff up a lot of bowls once you learn to make a dead straight stick with a skew. Regards and best wishes.

[Christos]

It has been mention before and I think it needs to be said again start turning between centers. One small length of a square piece of wood(about 50 x 50 mm) in the lathe will allow you to get the feel for most wood turning chisels. Turn this to a round piece and continue until there is nothing but shavings and a piece that is 10mm thick.

Normally catches occur when the edge or point of a chisel is in the turning wood before the bevel touches the wood. I got heaps of these catches when I first started on these disposal pieces of wood. Some not expected and some that I wanted to see what would happen when I got down to a very thin piece of wood. Each time I would stop the lathe and try to figure out what I did wrong.

The first piece that I ended up making was a snow man. It was not very good as the proportions were out and the hat rim was very thin. It just meant that I needed to make another one until I got it looking ok. Then once I got one that looked fine I made more to see if I could repeat so that they looked the same. I will admit that I was sad that I was not able to get them looking similar but that just meant I needed more time on the lathe.

One other thing to mention is with the face plate, don't give up on that. I have used glue blocks to hold pieces on the lathe but not with hot glue. I used normal glue as I can always part or turn off the glue block.

[pkroeze]

So last night I decided I would just finish the outside and chalk it down to experience but once I polished it I changed my mind as I really like it. So I've decided to take it off and carve the inside, anyway here are some pictures of the outside.

430224 430225 430226 430227 430228 430229 430230 430231 430232

[Gary H]

As long as you're having fun (safely) stick with it! Even if you do stuff it up you will have learned heaps (some good, some bad - but all valuable lessons).

[DaveTTC]

Good that you are concious of safety. My kifs ate 6, 8 & 9. I alkow them in when I turn but try to make them aware of the 'danger zone' and how that changes with the size of what I am turning. I keep my kids out of the firing line shoukd a piece explode. So far this has never happened with them in the room and I have only had two things ley go that mught have caused injury shoyld someone have been in the way (2 bromen windows lol)

As you get more confident in your abilities you may let your kids closer, thats your call.

DaveTTC
The Turning Cowboy
Turning Wood Into Art

[Lidcombe]

Well done. Beautiful finish. What timber, what finish?

[pkroeze]

It's Tasmanian Blackwood and I used Organoil wax & polish, it's a beeswax and citrus oil mixture.