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derekcohen
12th February 2018, 01:01 AM
I have just completed a new tool rest for my Jet mini lathe. I have been using this lathe for tool handles and spindles for tables and chairs for about 10 years. A good friend of mine, Chris Vesper (toolmaker extraordinaire) made a longer tool rest (than the original) for me, but it is still too short, and too inconvenient, for long spindles ...


https://s19.postimg.org/wqec02qzn/1-2a.jpg


As you can see, I have the extension bed, and the Jet has been all I have needed for all these years. However, now I am more serious about turning spindles for legs ... and at this point those who get to this point all seem to build a longer tool rest.


I tried to find another banjo to pair with the Jet one, but there is simply nothing available used, and a new one is nearly as much as the lathe cost me! So I decided to build it all.


https://s19.postimg.org/t6sea9vzn/2a.jpg


The fence is made of Jarrah, which is very hard and heavy, and is capped with a 5/8" mild steel tube.


https://s19.postimg.org/9oxqu9egj/1a.jpg


The Jarrah rail is tapered, and the tube is set into a hollow ...


https://s19.postimg.org/3o01x6zk3/3-1a.jpg


The banjos are also Jarrah, and adjustable for height and able to slide back-and-forth. The curve under the rail is not just for aesthetics, but also enables a hand to reach inside for adjustments ...


https://s19.postimg.org/mgbx0sbdv/3a.jpg


https://s19.postimg.org/le1qi8kur/4a.jpg


While I was at it, I took the time to reorganise my chisels for easier access ...


https://s19.postimg.org/6uulgu75f/5a.jpg


Regards from Perth


Derek

China
12th February 2018, 01:28 AM
That is a different approach looks like it worked out very well

BobL
12th February 2018, 09:48 AM
Looks good Derek.
Strength should be no problem given its for spindle work.
How is the tube fixed to the jarrah?

chambezio
12th February 2018, 10:20 AM
Derek your "trade mark" is quite evident with your new tool rest. Its funny how people's minds work. I would never have thought to make up the banjos from timber, I would have gone straight to steel. What you have made is not only serviceable but also looks pretty good too. I am sure it will give you a long trouble free service life

dai sensei
12th February 2018, 10:32 AM
Looks good Derek, but it could only be used for smallish work, the impact on the steel tube and glue (I assume fixing method to Jarrah) would not sustain heavy work IMO. Given the lathe though it is probably all it would be used for

derekcohen
12th February 2018, 10:39 AM
How is the tube fixed to the jarrah?

Hi Bob

The tube is set in a hollow to centre it. The hollow was planed. Then I simply used epoxy to glued the rod down.

Regards from Perth

Derek

derekcohen
12th February 2018, 10:43 AM
Looks good Derek, but it could only be used for smallish work, the impact on the steel tube and glue (I assume fixing method to Jarrah) would not sustain heavy work IMO. Given the lathe though it is probably all it would be used for

Neil, the tool rest is 30" long. It is really strong. No flex whatsoever. I could stand on it (no, I did not try :) ). I'm about to turn several spindles 27" long.

Regards from Perth

Derek

dai sensei
12th February 2018, 10:59 AM
Neil, the tool rest is 30" long. It is really strong. No flex whatsoever. I could stand on it (no, I did not try :) ). I'm about to turn several spindles 27" long.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I wasn't thinking flex, more high impact loads from roughing or catches, possibly dinting the tube or causing debonding of the glued surface. Even solid steel gets dints that need to be filed out regularly (dressing), so for the tube, it would weaken it progressively leading to failure. Like I said previously though, the odd job on that small lathe is probably going to be fine.

Optimark
12th February 2018, 11:20 AM
I wonder if filling the tube with fine very dry sand compacted very tightly, may help you in keeping denting possibilities to a minimum?

Just thinking out loud.

Mick.

derekcohen
12th February 2018, 12:44 PM
Hi Mick

The tube is fairly hard, however should (or when) it develops nicks, I will sand them out. Sanding and waxing tool rests has always been a part of my routine. The worst case scenario is to use a little heat from a heat gun and remove and replace the tube. They are cheap at Bunnings. All the ones I have seen on the "net were make of wood and a flat strip of mild steel. My thoughts were that flat is limiting.

I did wonder whether a solid steel round bar would be "harder", but few where as straight as a tube.

Regards from Perth

Derek

chuck1
12th February 2018, 01:28 PM
I get my tame metal worker to weld up the steel which consists of bright bar for the tool posts and 50 by 10 mm for the rest.
I'm turning on an old teknatool TL1000 stretched to 1.8 metres. I bought 2 old ones to make 1 lathe.
Your set-up looks good and if it gets the job done safely that's great.

chuck1
12th February 2018, 01:30 PM
I draw file my toolrests at least once a year.

jmk89
12th February 2018, 02:54 PM
I shall bear this in mind when I come to making something like that for my lathe.

I also like the holder for gouges, chisels, scrapers, etc., Derek. Which glue did you use to stick them to the baseboard ?

derekcohen
12th February 2018, 06:51 PM
Hi Jeremy

The tube holders for the lathe chisels have a 40mm diameter. The large ones are 250mm high.

The attachment is rather simple, but is strong. There is a 45mm x 25mm pine rail backed by another (scrap to hand). This created a stiff beam upon which the tubes sit. The beam is attached to the legs of the stand with an angle brace. Since the legs are splayed, the beam and tubes are canted forward ...

https://s19.postimg.org/3twak0flf/Glue1.jpg

The tubes are attached with hot glue. This was easy to apply and is very strong (thick layer .... have you ever tried to remove a thick layer of hot glue from wood?!) ...

https://s19.postimg.org/bmmybzdur/Glue2.jpg

The lathe stand was built in 2008: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/AStandformyJetMiniLathe.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

BobL
12th February 2018, 08:48 PM
I think the strength will be fine for spindle work and even the tube will survive a fair bit of battering.
Most of the heavy nicks in my rests seem to come from catches on lumps used to make larger pieces like bowls and platters.

A couple of years back I bought a 6m length of bright mild steel that is 18 mm in diameter and I still have some of it left if you need some. It's straight but I wonder if 18 mm might be too large? When I made some solid steel tool rests a few years back I use 12mm diameter rod but I later notice the tool that came with the Woodfast had about a 12 mm radius of curvature so 18 mm might be OK.

One difference I have since noticed about standard tool rest and tool rests I have made is how the front is under cut so that it permits a holding the tool just that bit closer to the cutting end.
429638

To do with a wood and metal rest would require some like this which might leave it a bit weak?
429639

Anyway, this is all second order stuff and I think it will work fine.

derekcohen
13th February 2018, 12:10 AM
Bob, that is a nice idea. I tried to keep the rod close to the edge ... mindful that reducing the width of the rail more might reduce its stiffness. It's a trade off. I will use it - hopefully this weekend - and determine if modifications are necessary.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Nubsnstubs
14th February 2018, 12:30 AM
Someone mentioned the glue might separate from the wood/metal and cause the bar to come loose. To solve that, use a pocket hole type drill bit, and use self tapping screws to hold the bar onto the wood. ............. Jerry (in Tucson)

BobL
14th February 2018, 10:12 AM
Someone mentioned the glue might separate from the wood/metal and cause the bar to come loose. To solve that, use a pocket hole type drill bit, and use self tapping screws to hold the bar onto the wood. ............. Jerry (in Tucson)

Self tapping screws can be difficult to screw into a solid steel bar but would suit a tube.
Tapping a thread into a solid bar and using machine screws would be stronger.
If a solid bar of sufficient diameter is used then a wooden support might not even be needed for spindle work.

derekcohen
14th February 2018, 11:00 AM
If a solid bar of sufficient diameter is used then a wooden support might not even be needed for spindle work.

Bob, I tried that a few years ago, using a 1" tube on steel legs. It vibrated too much in the centre. This is one of the reasons for using Jarrah - to absorb vibration.

Regards frim Perth

Derek

BobL
14th February 2018, 12:50 PM
Bob, I tried that a few years ago, using a 1" tube on steel legs. It vibrated too much in the centre. This is one of the reasons for using Jarrah - to absorb vibration.

Tube, I would agree could be problematic and the Jarrah would be good at soaking up vibe,

A solid bar should be different as it will have much more inertia.
A 600 mm long, 1 mm wall, 1" diameter tube weighs ~325 g
A 600 mm long, 3 mm wall, 1" diameter tube weighs ~965 g
A 600 mm long solid 1" diameter steel bar weighs ~ 2.4 kg

Hardenfast
18th February 2018, 09:17 AM
Very nice solution utilising materials at hand, Derek. Excellent photography too.

Mr Brush
18th February 2018, 09:22 AM
Nicely done Derek :2tsup:

I have the same lathe, and have been meaning to hunt down the extension bed for some time now. It'll have to be a new one, or a used one close enough to pick up - postage would be a killer.

BobL
23rd February 2018, 09:50 PM
Like Derek I needed a longer tool rest, but in my case the rest will be used mainly to turn single piece rolling pins.

My longest rest is one I made about 10 years ago and has seen quite a bit of work but @ 350 mm in length is an annoying 50 mm too short.
It's made from 2 x 1/2" mild steel bar with a ground radiused top edge.
It does not have an undercut and the supporting rod is just a tad too long so it gets in the way of the chisel supporting finger right in the middle of the rest.

I hadn't check how well it was lining up with the lathe bed for some years but it still seems to be holding up just fine.
(The DAF is first zeroed on lathe bed and then transferred to the top of the tool rest where it should also read zero.)
430363

This is the tool rest that came with the lathe.
Still good after a lot of work.
430364

The new one show below is 450 mm long, and "sans decor".
Its made from 1/2 x 1/2" square mild steel rod welded to a long edge of a 50 x 5 mm cross section mild steel bar.
The supporting rod that goes into the banjo is 5/8" MS rod and is inserted into a 5/8" hole that goes right through a 25 x 265 x 50 mm MS block and then welded the rod in place at the top of the hole. I call this a T-piece.

It's a lighter mass rest per unit length than the other 2 rests but I'm not intending to use this one for anything larger than a rolling pins or small spindle work and may even still rough down the pins using the stronger 350 mm rest.

430365

Getting this one to be parallel to the lathe bed proved trickier than I thought.
I started by putting the T-piece into the banjo and then lightly clamped the long bar with attached square rod onto the T-piece.
The DAF is zeroed on the bed, then transferred to the top of the rest, and by light tapping the rest up and down set the angle to zero - clamped hard, checked again with the DAF - spot welded and checked and the finally welded.
The first time I did this it was 0.5º out, something must have moved or the heat generated by the weld sis something.
So I cut off the T-piece, ground it all back and re-did it - thats why the welding of the T-piece looks a bit untidy.

Despite using a stitch TIG weld, as expected the welding process still put a significant bow in the long dimension of the square rod and flat bar.
I got most of the bow out with a hammer and anvil and then I ground the radius topped edge on a large belt sander that surface it is reasonably straight.

The radius top looks like this. The bright spot is the top of the spot weld that held the top in place while welded along the long edge
I will sand that area flat before adding a lick of paint.
430366

The top of a twin poster like Derek's should be easier to set up parallel to the lathe bed because there would be enough play up and down in the banjos to adjust it as needed.
I have the materials to make a longer one but will make this one a two poster and may use use the existing banjo and just make up a second one .

Hardenfast
24th February 2018, 01:00 AM
Nice detail in your methodology, Bob. Thanks.

derekcohen
24th February 2018, 02:53 PM
Hi Bob

I like what you did.

If I had welding equipment - and could weld (I went on a course many years ago, and sucked!) - I would have build the rest section as you have. I would still have stuck with twin banjos. I think it is better to err on the side of caution, and plan in adjustability.

Regards from Perth

Derek

BobL
24th February 2018, 09:10 PM
If I had welding equipment - and could weld (I went on a course many years ago, and sucked!) - I would have build the rest section as you have. I would still have stuck with twin banjos. I think it is better to err on the side of caution, and plan in adjustability.

Dual banjos definitely on the next one.