Bodging

[echnidna]

So what oz timbers are suiteable for green chairmaking.
:)

[outback]

Green.



































:p

[Zed]

i made a chair at a course once using windsor stool method - look at posts in a previous thread I started called "not all stools smell bad" I made it out of ribinda psuedo acacia (I think from memory) the stool still serves its purpose so it must be ok timber.

[Bodgy]

What's with the BODGING, gentlemen?

I was here first, and reserve the right to be associated with a less than perfect job, delivered tout suite, at a Ozito price!

Coin another term or it's lawyers, guns and money!

[goodwoody]

Bodgy, What the hell are you jibbering about? :confused:

[rick_rine]

treated pine

[Zed]

Bodgy,

Bodgering (By bodgers) is the ancient craft (or at least a sub part thereof) of the manual methond of turning a windsor chair using tranditional methods such as a pole lathe and a bodgers clamping chair etc...

I assume your moniker comes from the term associated with crapulent workmanship.... :D

[Green Woodchips]

I've just started my first green chair attempt with cypress.

So far, so good. I'm not sure how it's going to season, but we'll see. The ends are sealed with PVA which is helping.

I know it's not an Aussie timber, but it is readily available here.

I'm keen to try what we Aussies call 'Ash'. My folks have lots of peppermint ash on their farm. I think I'll give it a whirl when I get a chance.

But first, I have to get a drawknife. So far I've been working with spokeshaves. This is fine for smaller work, but pretty slow for removing lots of stock.

There are some recent and useful posts under 'Homemade tools and jigs etc.' for those interested in green woodworking (esp. 'Drawknives' and 'Shaving Horse'). Keep an eye out for Andy Mac. He seems to be pretty sharp on this whole green woodworking thing. Cheers, Andy, if you read this.

Cheers,
Green Woodchips

[Andy Mac]

Hi there Green 'chips!
As far as I know Bodging was a term used for country chair makers in England, who would work on-site in the forest or copse. Working seasonally with froe and beetle, drawknife, pole lathe and shaving horse, they would churn out things like stools and chairs. I guess the term bodgey or bodgy comes from the difference between this style of work and the shop-based cabinet work of towns and cities. Think Jimmy Possum chair!
As for suitable Australian timbers, I reckon try anything! Horizontal in Tassie is apparently very good, but I've yet to touch the stuff. I know Gay Hawkes has used it in her work. I have had very little luck with Eucalypts, it doesn't respond well to drawknives, but that's not to say it can't be used. Whatever I use, I always strip the bark first, and easier when its green. This removes an ideal environment for borers etc to live...maybe different in the US, as they seem keen for stick furniture with bark left on.
Working green has problems, mainly with the timber shrinking and joints loosening. One way out of it is to stick a really dry tenon (read "branch" :rolleyes: ) into an unseasoned mortice, the reason is the dry timber absorbs moisture from the surrounding joint and swells. Apparently force dry the end over a fire!! I haven't tried it yet.
Anyway, for those that haven't had a go, it really is fun; the various shapes and curves of sticks may be a challenge to those used to working with square stock and 90 degree joints, but much play is possible!:D
Check out some of Dan Mack's excellent books.
Cheers,

[Ivan in Oz]

Coin another term or it's lawyers, guns and money!
Good one Bodgy,
Like your Wavelength....it's Warren Zevon :D

[echnidna]

I've just started my first green chair attempt with cypress.

I know it's not an Aussie timber, but it is readily available here.

I'm keen to try what we Aussies call 'Ash'. My folks have lots of peppermint ash on their farm. I think I'll give it a whirl when I get a chance.

Cheers,
Green Woodchips

I was thinking of aussie timbers not exotics.
If exotics were the go I'd be thinking poplar, oak and elm etc.

Cypress Macrocarpra has minimal shrinkage but its a softwood and softwoods aren't suitable for chairs. There are no antique softwood chairs, that says something. It might be ok for non loadbearing members such as backs and slats etc but I wouldn't use it for legs and braces etc

Peppermint is probably not suitable as it has very high shrinkage and is prone to a lot of movement and splits while seasoning.

From observing trees in the bush,
I'm inclined to think blackwood and possibly some other wattles will be the most suitable timbers.

I don't think messmate is suitable but manna gum and swamp gum (ovata) might be ok by using windfallen trees that have part dried so timber can be used from select parts of the log.

I suppose a study of Bootles Wood might be the go to find lower shrinkage natives and try them.

[Green Woodchips]

Bob -

Appreciate your thoughts. I will persevere with the cypress nonetheless, if only to learn something of the rudiments of green work.

Thanks for the thoughts on peppermint. You have probably saved me a few wasted hours. I'll look for something different.

I'm still intrigued by the other [exotic] suggestions Andy Mac put fwd on another BB regarding the use of cotoneaster and privet.

Has anyone out there written books on green woodworking in Aus?

Cheers,
GW

[Bodgy]

Bodgy, What the hell are you jibbering about? :confused:

I aplogise if you found it annoying, it was meant to be humourous. Either way undeserving of rudeness, I would have thought.

[echnidna]

I think everyone took it as humourous

[Toymaker Len]

Just mentioned on the previous thread I have seen green made chairs put together with cassuarina. I've also seen dense thickets of straight cassuarina saplings in river beds just crying out for a bit of judicious thinning.

[steck]

A very interesting thread to read.
I think I will investigate bodging a little more.

[echnidna]

The current Australian Wood Review has a feature article on an ACT woodie who makes chairs from green\airdried timber, quite interesting. He mainly uses ash but soaks his billets prior to working.

[tashammer]

Peppermint is probably not suitable as it has very high shrinkage and is prone to a lot of movement and splits while seasoning. Peppermint is very good for shingles. clean splitting. Oh, there is a young bloke over Golden Valley way who makes the most brilliant pieces of furniture out of horizontal scrub. The guy has a gift and a half. Needless to say, i just forgot his name. he does show at the Deloraine Craft Festival. Well worth having a gander at seeing a young bloke using the old methods of froe, broad axe, etc.

[tashammer]

Oh, a number of folks used Polyethylene Glycol (PEG) to help overcome the problems of splitting and shrinkage with green timber. If you use a microwave to season the timber, then google some info first or you might end up buggering the microwave with creosote like i did. i wasn't popular. still it was a fragrant scent like an open fire.

[JimboJ]

Hey all,
I don't know much about the woods in Oz (aside from the fact that I love working with jarrah and wish it were more readilly available in the States), but where I'm from in the northeast USA, red oak is great to work green. In fact the wetter the better. It planes like you're peeling cheese, it bends easily - it's great. You should search for google for trees in your area that have similar properties of red oak and give them a try

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Oh, a number of folks used Polyethylene Glycol (PEG) to help overcome the problems of splitting and shrinkage with green timber. If you use a microwave to season the timber, then google some info first or you might end up buggering the microwave with creosote like i did. i wasn't popular. still it was a fragrant scent like an open fire.

Hint: plastic bags are OK in microwaves. ;)

[thebodger]

Working green has problems, mainly with the timber shrinking and joints loosening.

no problem with that. greenwood spindles turned from split wood dries with an oval cross section with the grain running across the shortest part of the oval. all you need to do is dry the spindles before assembling the chair (you can do this by leaving them in a sort of cold frame made from an old window, or just leaving them in the airing cupboard). then you can either pop them straight in the mortice (which will leave a small gap either side of the oval) or what i have done is chuck them back on the lathe and carefully reduce the ends back to a round shape. you'll need to make sure the tennons are a little too big for the holes before doing this and just reduce them to size, measuring with a vernier guage. when you bang the tennons in, make sure the endgrain runs horizontal with the ground (or the opposite direction to the grain on the leg) as the mortice will form a slight oval shape too. the tenon should still shrink a little (and go a little oval) so by doing this the two oval sections will match up and make a snug fit...hope that made sense. feel free anybody to ask more...:U

Totally agree Andy, the Dan Mac books are great. for all you bodgers out there you may also want to try the Mike Abbott book, Geen Woodwork, and if you're ever in england you may want to try his courses - i did a 10 day course with him and it was great!...the guy is the guru of bodging...he runs an annual 'log to leg' competition where last i heard he was the champ, turning two windsor chair legs from the log (so including splitting, side axe, shaving and bodging) in just 9 minutes!!! who needs electricity!

cheers all
jeff.

[nonails]

Hi Jeff & everyone else,
this is my first post on this forum. planning to move/retire to Tassie early next year and want to try my hand at green woodworking. I have a few books and DVD's on green woodworking... Drew Langsner's books are great...John Alexander's "make a chair from a tree" DVD is a must have for any aspiring bodger.
I'm a huge fan of Dan Mack and love the rustic style branch furniture (included a pic of one of my chairs & my shave horse) .main difference with this type of furniture is timber really needs seasoning for a up to a year to get best results....this particular chair is peeled Sheaoak (swamp Oak) .I've found it good to work with and has nice grain finish
I see a big advantage with greenwoodworking in not having to wait to work it ,anyway hopefully soon I can get to give it a go.
great to see other rustic woodworkers in OZ,
cheers for now ...nonails8584385844

[thebodger]

Welcome Nonails

like your work...and is that a seat from an old grey fergie? great idea. May see you bodging around Tassie some time.

Cheers

Jeff.

[flynnsart]

When I used to make my bent sapling chairs (pics on another post somewhere on here), I used to make rocking chairs out of them as well. For the the ends of the legs that I made tenons on to go into the rockers, I used to put them in a tin bucket full of sand and sit it over the barbeque. It really dried them out. I would rough shape the tenons before they went in the bucket, then after taking out, let cool and finish shaping the tenon. (they smelt real nice too as they were drying)


Donna

[thebodger]

When I used to make my bent sapling chairs (pics on another post somewhere on here), I used to make rocking chairs out of them as well. For the the ends of the legs that I made tenons on to go into the rockers, I used to put them in a tin bucket full of sand and sit it over the barbeque. It really dried them out. I would rough shape the tenons before they went in the bucket, then after taking out, let cool and finish shaping the tenon. (they smelt real nice too as they were drying

Wow, you Aussies do everything on the barbie!! :U

Thanks Donna, sounds like a good idea. I've done some bent willow chairs in the past...great things they are because they continue to grow if it gets wet enough.

Cheers
Jeff.

[pewter2]

first time on forum but able to pass on info and news that may interest you...
you may have been aquainted with howard (forgotten his last name) who often operated green woodworking classes making windsor chairs at sturt school of woodworking at mittagong also around the north coast and also around canberra... i dont think he is doing the course at mittagong this year but will keep you informed if any the contrary

bumped into a guy yesterday and course of the conversation re chair making courses came up where i mentioned that i may have to go to norfolk island for the course in making windsor chairs etc etc.................."i'm him" he retorts......he's moved over here currently living up the north coast, eager to move to central coast or the southern highlands to carry on his chairmaking courses here are the details
richard bowes hare his email.... [email protected]
his web address...... www.rbhchairs.com (http://www.rbhchairs.com)
phone number 0448877479 i hope he goes as planned and commences his courses in the new year will keep this forum advised regards pewter2

[ChairmanHare]

Thanks pewter2 for listing our details on the forum. Our meeting with you Friday Nov 28 walking into the Antique shop as we did, was very funny. A bit of a 'monty python' moment. We have already received inquiry to attend a workshop with us in 2009 as a result. We have four such workshops planned with a six person maximum on each course, the first scheduled for early April over Easter. At this time it is likely we will settle in the Southern Highlands which we are feeling very excited about. Just got the hard graft to do to relocate now. Will keep you posted as to when and where we land.
A little of my history: I learned the craft of Traditional Greenwood Chairs in England in 1995 and returned to NZ to practice. I tutored these workshops in NZ for six years 1998 to 2003 between making 600 plus Windsor and Ladderback chairs for the retail market there.
We relocated to NI 2003 to 2008 where I tutored 7 workshops I think 2006 / 2007. One student there has completed five workshops with me and is planning a trip to OZ to do another. My partner Gwynna and I are very passionate about teaching these workshops as our contribution to keeping this old time craft alive in today's busy modern world. It is something out of the ordinary. We hope to see you sometime 2009.

chairs,
Richard Hare

[derekh]

Richard, I'm interested in an Easter workshop so pls keep us posted regarding your workshops. There were no details on your website regarding cost. If required, pls PM me with costs.

cheers
Derek

[ChairmanHare]

Hi Derek,

Great to hear you would like to attend the Easter workshop. Please use our website www.rbhchairs.com contact page and click on the word 'contact' to send an email direct with your details etc. We will send you the scheduled dates for 2009 and course fee details.

If you would like to check out some pics of students and their comments from NI courses go to www.norfolkisland.com.au and click on 'activities' then 'workshops' - I think our workshops is the only one listed. We haven't yet transferred these pics etc. to our website yet .... hopefully next week.

chairs,
Richard Hare

[ChairmanHare]

Hi Derek,

Great to hear you would like to attend the Easter workshop. Please use our website www.rbhchairs.com (http://www.rbhchairs.com) contact page and click on the word 'contact' to send an email direct with your details etc. We will send you the scheduled dates for 2009 and course fee details.

If you would like to check out some pics of students and their comments from NI courses go to www.norfolkisland.com.au (http://www.norfolkisland.com.au) and click on 'activities' then 'workshops' - I think our workshops is the only one listed. We haven't yet transferred these pics etc. to our website yet .... hopefully next week.

chairs,
Richard Hare

Just to let you know, it looks like we will relocate to the Southern Highlands in the New Year with potential to have another woodworker who uses machinery to make their furniture, join us. If you are a keen woodworker but don't have the machines or the workshop space and would like to share expenses please contact us via our website rbhchairs.com to discuss the options.

[ChairmanHare]

Hello to all those keen bodgers wanting to make a traditional greenwood chair.

Richard Hare Chairs has relocated to the 'Wildwood Gallery' - Lot 16, 1345 Nowra Road - Fitzroy Falls - Southern Highlands NSW.

Our first Traditional Greenwood Chair Workshop for 2009 is happening Tuesday April 7th to Monday April 13th. That takes in the Easter break. We have confirmed students for this course and August course.

We are offering the Easter course at a reduced rate of $1,200 a student which covers gst and your meals .... plus of course you take home your beautiful chair. This is a fantastic offer. We require 50% of fee to be paid by Feb 28th with the remaining 50% to be paid by March 31st. We would love to have you onboard for an experience of a lifetime in a fantastic location.

We have introduced ourselves into the Kangaroo Valley community with Richard demonstrating the art of using a pole lathe Saturday Feb. 14th at the KV A&H Show. We have been invited to demonstrate at the Moss Vale Show Saturday March 15th which will introduce us to the Southern Highlands community. If you are around this location at that time, stop in and introduce yourself. Check out rbhchairs.com and click 'contact us' on the workshop page if you wish to register for the workshops, especially the April one with end February fast approaching.

chairs,
Gwynna * and Richard Hare.

[ChairmanHare]

The link to our workshops with student critiques on the Norfolk Island website has been removed .... they have redesigned their webpage and I guess as we left there 12 months ago .... they have now left it off.

If you would like to read some student critiques check out rbhchairs.com workshop page and click 'contact us' requesting critiques be sent to you.

chairs,
Gwynna *
For Richard B Hare.

[ChairmanHare]

I thought I posted a notice re our relocation ... but not showing up it seems. Richard Hare Chairs has relocated to the 'Wildwood Gallery' at Lot 16, 1345 Nowra Road, Fitzroy Falls, Southern Highlands 2577 NSW.

The first Traditional Greenwood Chair workshop is going ahead starting Tuesday April 7th to Monday April 13th (for the 7 day course) or Thursday April 16th (for 10 day course).
If you are keen, email [email protected] and I will send you details required.

chairs,
Richard Hare

[snell]

What are the advantages of microwave seasoning over air seasoning process?

How do you tell when wood has reached EMC during the microwave seasoning process?
thanks:U

[JDarvall]

found bloodwork to bend well. didn't expect it, but thats what I use with all my chair rails and spindles at present.

[DsArt]

Don`t know much about green carvin ,but privet was one a fellow i met years ago always used ,the`s heaps of it and it`s free:rolleyes: Black wattle mayby although it does do all those nasty things ,twist ,warp ect ,:~ i have found it quite stable in most applications that didn`t involve slab type stuff,12 years on an it still cuts like it`s sappy,but hard as,an it don`t seem to shrink much,Anyhow that`s my pennies worth ,good luck :cool::2tsup::?
Isn`t a bodgy a bikey without a bike:U:?:cool: