Using an Incra 1000 SE Mire Gauge on a Hammer K3 Winner

[Sterob]

I decided to start a new thread as the other one had moved on too far from the original post.

I decided the only way to see if a Incra Mitre gauge could be used on the K3 Hammer, for sure, was to buy one and eyeball it....

I bought a 1000 SE and now have to work out how to make it fit properly.
I need a 3 mm wider guide and also need to work out IF I can incorporate the 'plastic expanders' for adjustment or go with another method.

I may add 3 mm of packing to one side of the guide and just use the expanders on one side...I may make a whole new guide...dunno...

The distance from the top of the table and top of the slot appears to be larger than other TS's as well, so that has to be looked at...All good fun....lol
I may need to make a new guide in an Inverse T shape to compensate for this distance....

Steve

429988

PS FYI: first pic appeared sideways.... I had to crop it so that it was wider than it was high and its ok now.

[derekcohen]

Why are you doing this? It seems like a regressive step to me, bearing in mind that the K3 is a slider.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Parks]

This may give you a few ideas Incra Crosscut Fence for the Hammer B3 / K3 (http://benchmark.20m.com/tools/HammerB3/B3IncraMiterFence/b3_incramiterfenceinstall.html)

Hammer do supply a guide to go into the slot but it is not a precise fit and nowhere good enough for your application. I would be getting someone to machine a guide so it fits precisely.

You do not have an outrigger?

[Sterob]

Why are you doing this? It seems like a regressive step to me, bearing in mind that the K3 is a slider.

Regards from Perth

Derek

You might be right. The only way for me to find out if this is a backward step is to try it. I'm not that experienced with Table saws, but the way Hammer set up mitre cuts seems a bit vague to me.
I thought I would try an Incra Gauge and see how I like it.
I like the Double mitre fence that Felder make but that would take some time to fabricate.
This may suit me...it may not.

steve

[Sterob]

This may give you a few ideas Incra Crosscut Fence for the Hammer B3 / K3 (http://benchmark.20m.com/tools/HammerB3/B3IncraMiterFence/b3_incramiterfenceinstall.html)

Hammer do supply a guide to go into the slot but it is not a precise fit and nowhere good enough for your application. I would be getting someone to machine a guide so it fits precisely.

You do not have an outrigger?

I saw that page. He uses the stock mitre so does not have a Angle scale .
I have an outrigger. I'm just trying this out.:)

To cut 'matching mitres' it appears that you have to move the fence between the front and the rear of the outrigger, on the K3. This does not appeal to me so I'm going to try this.
Steve
Yes looking into machining a new guide as well. I have a CNC Router so may be able to fab it myself.

[derekcohen]

Steve, I think that you are missing the point of the K3's design. It has a sliding table which is the mitre slot. The slot you are attempting to fit the mitre gauge into is not intended for this purpose, but simply as a place to clamp accessories, such as a hold down or mitre/crosscut fence. The slot does not need to be accurate, only the sliding table does.

You need to learn how to use the slider. Look up videos of Frans and Fritz (or is it vice versa) jigs on YouTube. Then you will begin to understand.

Regards from Perth

Derek (Hammer K3 Winner with 1250 slider)

[Chris Parks]

I have never thought about it but Derek puts it into words. The only reason I hadn't thought about it is I have never used the slot for any other than the F&F jig and I have yet to find the situation where I have to clamp work to the slider. I have a couple of links that i will add later from another computer, a few for the F&F jig and one for a tenoning set up. I have a feeling that I have a link to a very large protractor jig as well.

[Sterob]

Thanks Guys. You are probably right.
I think what started this was the fact I wanted to cut an uneven mitre join ( 32° and 58° ) for an oven surround, and that was difficult with the Hammer setup.
I was thinking about locking the mitre in the slot and still using the slider, so I would still have the slider's accuracy. I thought that would be the best of both worlds.
Will probably carry on to find out for sure. Wost case is that the mitre will able to be used on my bandsaw.
Thanks for your comments.
Will look up those videos.
Steve

[derekcohen]

Hi Steve

The Incra can only be used on the K3 in fixed format. The issue here is that you then need to find a way to easily replicate setting it up. That is part of the design with the crosscut fence on the slider.

Which K3 do you have? Mine has the crosscut fence at the start of the slider, and you will see here that the (black) stop is the latest version (available as an accessory). These are more reliable than the old (silver) version.

https://s19.postimg.org/4vi96d16r/5a.jpg

The F&F jig works at the other end of the slider. Chris will be happy to show his version.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Parks]

The photos below show the crosscut fence on the front of the slider, at that stage I did not have an outrigger and wanted to use the F&F jig as shown in the two following videos



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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqzVglze9Nk

and a better one in this video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0PyFjtSHrE

And a couple of different versions of the F&F jig I am currently using, the fancy Incra version seemed like a good idea at the time to set the timber to be cut parallel to the blade but I have since thought up a way more simple method and when I build it I will do a few pics. The plain one I use constantly and the cut measurement is taken from the short fence.

430079430080430081430082430083


The following video shows how a long cut can be done using a supplementary sliding table. Felder supply a guide to go into the slot to enable this but it is a very loose fit and costs over $100 for a three metre length. My saw has a short table so I have bought the guide so I can do something similar just not as long.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--M-Iz2pw1k\

Here is a tenoning jig....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg3YZQx-0qc&t=33s

and a large protractor/miter jig...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG9LRnB9-Hg

[Sterob]

Hi Steve

The Incra can only be used on the K3 in fixed format. The issue here is that you then need to find a way to easily replicate setting it up. That is part of the design with the crosscut fence on the slider.Derek

That's what I plan on trying. I don't see why I need to replicate its setup? If the rail in snug in the slot , I clamp it down anywhere along the sliding table, or am I missing something?


Which K3 do you have? Mine has the crosscut fence at the start of the slider, and you will see here that the (black) stop is the latest version (available as an accessory). These are more reliable than the old (silver) version. Derek

I have the same cross cut fence with the Silver stop, but the Fence can be mounted on both sides of the outrigger( front and back ), correct? This allows +45° and -45° cuts?



The F&F jig works at the other end of the slider. Chris will be happy to show his version.Derek


Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks Derek.:)

[Sterob]

The photos below show the crosscut fence on the front of the slider, at that stage I did not have an outrigger and wanted to use the F&F jig as shown in the two following videos

And a couple of different versions of the F&F jig I am currently using, the fancy Incra version seemed like a good idea at the time to set the timber to be cut parallel to the blade but I have since thought up a way more simple method and when I build it I will do a few pics. The plain one I use constantly and the cut measurement is taken from the short fence.

The following video shows how a long cut can be done using a supplementary sliding table. Felder supply a guide to go into the slot to enable this but it is a very loose fit and costs over $100 for a three metre length. My saw has a short table so I have bought the guide so I can do something similar just not as long.

Here is a tenoning jig....
and a large protractor/miter jig...



Thanks Chris. Great info there. I see how the F&F Jig would be very handy. A Safer way to make cuts. Fingers no where near the blade.

[derekcohen]

I don't see why I need to replicate its setup? If the rail in snug in the slot , I clamp it down anywhere along the sliding table, or am I missing something?

Because that is not how you use the Incra. It needs to be perfectly square to the blade to begin, if you plan to flip it from -45 to +45 degrees. Ideally, one wants something that can be set up quickly for accurate results.

I do have another idea for you, if you have the crosscut fence. This is something I tried out quickly today. It is still a work in progress - I need to create some flippable stops to set the fence. It is not a quick set up, which is my target. At present I have to use a mitre square before hand ...

This is the result ..

https://s19.postimg.org/bsoudpvfn/image.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/ezjdxd30z/image.jpg

I'm very happy with that!

This is what I did ...

I set up the crosscut fence at 45 degrees:

https://s19.postimg.org/hgv54mun7/image.jpg

This was measured with a mitre square against the edge of the slider ...

https://s19.postimg.org/tvhx4y6pv/image.jpg

Then I used the base of the old crosscut fence, fitted it with the half-fence from my Hammer N4400 bandsaw ...

https://s19.postimg.org/76sq5dhmb/image.jpg

.. and checked it for 45 degrees against the side of the slider as well ...

https://s19.postimg.org/3zy6lrs1f/image.jpg

I need to make a depth stop for it, as the other fence already has ...

https://s19.postimg.org/6u1bz81xf/image.jpg

It works well. But is it a substitute for the mitre jig in one of the videos that Chris posted (that Felder sell for $XXX)?

https://s19.postimg.org/hgv54nhsj/image.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Sterob]

Yes, I'd be happy with that mitre as well..lol

You don't use the scale on the table ? I assume its not accurate enough. Your results prove that.

The Incra requires calibration when you first install it and as long as the bar is snug in the slot, it should continue to be accurate. I will have to test it.

The Double Mitre fence seems to be the best option, as uneven mitres are no more difficult than even mitre cuts.
Thanks for the demo,Derek. :)

[Chris Parks]

Use this method to calibrate the CC fence and the Incra, it is at least as accurate as the five cut method and a zillion times quicker.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZM1OBcC6ok&list=PLEb0Ut6A7deZhW9Sbf0EGMmTaxGrJpTyJ&t=1s&index=13

[lmarvasi]

Dear Sterob,
I have a INCRA Miter 1000 SE and a K3 Hammer.
Did you find a method to adapt he INCRA Miter 1000 SE to the K3 Hammer?
Thanks in advance
Luigi