Celtic knot

[Fumbler]

Team,

I am curious, i have a ton of offcuts which I am combining to make a rock maple/Jarrah candle stick with a celtic knot in the centre. During the celtic know cutting process, how long between glue ups is ok to continue to the next cut? Titebond III says clamp for 30min (longer if possible). My point being, I only have access to a workshop twice a week, or once a week over the next few weeks, will the strength be there if I clamp for 30min, then go on to the next cut, then wait 30min then go the next cut and so forth so the last cut I can clamp longer but don't want to have 1 super strong joint and 3 not so.

I know if I do a clamp up for 30min for each cut then leave unclamped for 24hrs it will have cured properly, but just interested to hear some thoughts.

I don't really want to make a cut then glue for 24hrs, then not able to make the next cut until next week etc, could take me 4wks just to put the knot in.....yikes,

- on a side note I had glued 2 pieces together recently an after about 10-5min I realised they weren't aligned properly and I couldn't separate them with a hammer so I'm thinking i'll be ok but some feedback from the turning community would be greatly appreciated

[DAL1957]

Hi Fumbler, can't really answer your question as I haven't played around all that much with glues other than to glue and clamp now and come back tomorrow when it's had good time to set (though I see your dilemma).

However, your project sound intriguing, any chance of popping in a few pictures to show what you are doing?

[Fumbler]

definitely. stay tuned. I will post progressive shots (if I can remember to take whilst on the sled)

[bruceward51]

I had a go at a Celtic knot in a rolling pin. I allowed an hour between cuts, using titebond II (mainly a decorative piece). It worked perfectly well. I had a few issues with re-aligning the knot bands and I decided it was a good idea to match the width of the band to the kerf of the saw and to work to pre-marked centreline.


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[Paul39]

Fumbler,

As I know nothing about Celtic Knots, I did a search and found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHagbZN4XRw

You could put a couple of tight wraps of tape around the glued area, turn round close to the tape, retape on the round areas and finish turning.

It would not be good to get a face full of turning parts if it came unglued. You might also do some research about making the glue dry faster, warm timber, microwave, etc.

[orraloon]

Just on a safety point I would be waiting 24 hours before spinning that up on the lathe. As the work is sliced through on the diagonal at many points so is not really long grain joints. You may get away with it but you have no excuse if you don't. As to making good use of shed time then turn something else while waiting on glueups.
Regards
John.

[Fumbler]

45min glue time between cuts, but I think 1 lifted when clamped, I clamped sideways and endways and forgot about top ways. Anyhoo, I want be turning this for at least a month so glue will have well and truly cured. Here's the pics.
1. Timbers to be used
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2. On the sled
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3. Cut 1
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4. Cut 2
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5. Cut 3
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6. Cut 4
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I will post last pic shortly. As I said I may be out fractionally.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

'Tis a bit late now, you seem to have found a happy balance where it works for you, but I found that the best way is to not quite cut all the way through. This does mean a little more waste, but the benefits make up for this!

For a celtic knot to look 'right' every insert has to be exactly the thickness of your saw kerf - even the first cut - and leaving a mm or two connecting the two ends allows for an easy check of thickness while maintaining the alignment.

As a bonus, it gives added strength during gluing so you can shave a few minutes off the waiting time when in a hurry to get the blank finished.

It's always advisable to let the completed glue-up cure for a few days before turning, of course...

[Fumbler]

Yep, I won't be turning this for a while and although I may be slightly out, I made the slips to the exact size of the kerf. I cut a slot in a scrap price then sanded down via the drum sander to the exact size. But not bad for a first effort.

here 'tis finished before turning.

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[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Looking good! :thumbsup:

I also suggest you be very, very careful when marking the centres and mounting on the lathe. I don't know how many 'wonky' celtic knots I made before I came up with my current me-proof method for ensuring correct registration. :B

[dai sensei]

All the best with this. I was going to say you can use thick CA on one face and accelerator on the other.

Also, for pens where the ultimate dia is pretty small, try getting the angles a lot steeper, around 20 degrees or less works better than 45.

[Fumbler]

try getting the angles a lot steeper, around 20 degrees or less works better than 45.

Cheers Neil, I will try that next time luckily this is for a candle stick. I was sitting in the garage pondering life, whilst watching glue dry and found some small offcuts and thought what can I do with these, so here it is. I have a few other bits to add yet so hopefully I can still keep them centred. but definitely will try a flatter knot next time.

[Fumbler]

Looking good! :thumbsup:

I also suggest you be very, very careful when marking the centres and mounting on the lathe. I don't know how many 'wonky' celtic knots I made before I came up with my current me-proof method for ensuring correct registration. :B

Im sure I'll get there, but I was rushing and forgot one of the clamps so I expect it to be off a bit. Please let me know your 'me-proof' way and I'll see if I can follow. I may end up making a permenant sled for cutting.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Please let me know your 'me-proof' way and I'll see if I can follow. I may end up making a permenant sled for cutting.

Many people square the blank, do the cuts and glue-up, re-square and then mark the centres. I found that errors crept in and even the most perfect looking blank would often end up with one long loop and one short in the final result; it took me a while to realise it was my remounting at fault.

So... now I square the blank, mark centres as accurately as I can then mount and turn only the central section round where I'm doing the cuts, leaving the ends squared for registration against a table/fence.

The cuts are done on the table saw, setting the depth of cut to a mm or two less than the total blank thickness so it stays together as one piece. (As I alluded to earlier.)

I find this has three benefits:

1. If the "lip" between the rounded section and the squared ends isn't the same all around, I hadn't centered it for turning properly and I can either abort now or make the effort to tweak it so that things are brought back into balance. Which way I go depends on the timbers used (how costly? Do I have more?), how confident I am in my success, whether I have the time or, sometimes, from just not knowing when to give up. ;)

2. The ends are already correctly marked/centred/punched for remounting. <- This has saved me many wasted blanks.

3. If I glue in a strip that's just a skew-whiff oversize it can bow the blank w/out me noticing. With the two ends still being squared I can place the blank against a flat surface or straight edge and double-check that it's still true before committing to the next stage.

I didn't mention it before because many folk seem to find your way perfectly OK. But if there's any possibility of doing something wrong, I'm the sort that seems to unerringly find it. :sigh:

[Fumbler]

I didn't mention it before because many folk seem to find your way perfectly OK. But if there's any possibility of doing something wrong, I'm the sort that seems to unerringly find it. :sigh:

I think your not alone on this one, i always feel that nothing ever goes to plan or I forget 1 viral step in my haste. But that's what makes things challenging, interesting and frustrating all at the same time. Enjoyable stress I call it. And thanks for your tips, I'll keep that in mind next time.

i am very short on space and the correct/decent tools so it takes me a month of Sundays to get things finished as limited access to a well appointed workshop.

[Fumbler]

I told you all to that it would take a while, and here she is, my first Celtic Knot, in candle stick form, finished, with eee and shellawax glow. For what I thought would be off kilter (pardon the Kilt pun), she's turned out trumps. Exactly spot on, whether that was luck or a combination of things gone wrong to all end up right, I'll never know, plot possibly be able to replicate. Timbers are Jarrah and Rock maple.

i did however have some issues with tearout through flex in the centre, maybe I had it too tight? Anyone have any ideas or experiences this before?

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Sorry the the last few ended up on their sides. Hope it doesn't put anyone serious neck out.

turned on the new turning station, this is one happy camper.

fumbler.

[Fumbler]

PS. The wife is impressed too, not as much as she would be if I packed the washing up away, put everything back in the cupboard after the plumber came and changed a leaking tap and hose, and put the dinner on!! Oh well, can't have everything.

[Optimark]

Looks really good, even if the pictures are on their sides. :D

That is the new lathe from Hafco, from memory it has a really high speed, please be aware of your chuck(s) rotation speed limit. For instance, my Vicmarc 100 chuck is limited to 3,500 rpm, while my Vicmarc 120 chuck is limited to 3,000 rpm.

Regardless, really nice work.

Mick.

[smiife]

Hi fumbler, really good job on the celtic knot , well done :2tsup:

[Fumbler]

Looks really good, even if the pictures are on their sides. :D

That is the new lathe from Hafco, from memory it has a really high speed, please be aware of your chuck(s) rotation speed limit. For instance, my Vicmarc 100 chuck is limited to 3,500 rpm, while my Vicmarc 120 chuck is limited to 3,000 rpm.

Regardless, really nice work.

Mick.

Mick, thanks for that, I wasn't aware there was any speed restrictions on a scroll chuck, I'll check it out and see.

Richard

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Yes, nice job! Very nice job indeed.

But shouldn't candlesticks come in pairs? :innocent:

[Fumbler]

Yes, nice job! Very nice job indeed.

But shouldn't candlesticks come in pairs? :innocent:

theres always one......