Replacement for P&N 1-1/4″ Roughing Gouge

[NeilS]

With the demise of P&N there are few options available now for a solid tang roughing gouge. Besides the price, one of the advantages of the P&N roughing gouges was their substantial tang, which is the weak point in most other RGs.

eg. see here (https://familywoodworking.org/forums/showthread.php?33271-this-is-why-I-like-her&p=405767#post405767)

If you are looking for a replacement for the P&N you could consider the Carter option. It has a similar robust tang to the P&N.

They do come at a premium if you are buying with AU$s to which you have to add international shipping (you won't get much change out of A$200 for the 1-1/4″ Roughing Gouge when you have added shipping).

https://woodturningtoolstore.com/product/1-14-roughing-gouge/

Carter's 7/8" RG costs a bit less and may be an option for you if you don't need the more substantial heft of the 1-1/4″.

https://woodturningtoolstore.com/product/78-roughing-gouge/

One advantage of the Carter over the old P&N is that it is that they are made with M42 steel, which provides some advantage (but IMO not as much as some claim) in sharpness and wear resistance over the M2 in P&N and some other makes. I have used turning tools made with M42 by D-Way and in my experience they definitely take a finer edge than all of my M2 and V10 or V15 tools.

I have not used any of the V10 tools made by Glaser Hitec, so I can't provide a comparison there (and probably unlikely to do so on price alone, furthermore they don't answer emails, so I'm even less likely to do so).

Are there any other options of RGs with substantial tangs?

Note: I have not used any Carter tools myself, so haven't had any hands-on-experience with them and therefore can't comment on their quality.

Disclosure: I should also point out that I have no financial or other connection with them.

As always....

[Mobyturns]

Doug Thompson makes an
1 1/4" Spindle Roughing Gouge with a solid tang.

[derekcohen]

Hi Neil

How does the M42 steel compare with the Crown cryogenic M2 steel (https://www.timbecon.com.au/woodturning/turning-tools/roughing-gouges-cryogenic-steel)? I have a 32mm Crown roughing gauge for spindles, and it holds an edge in abrasive Jarrah extremely well.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Paul39]

Doug Thompson makes an
1 1/4" Spindle Roughing Gouge with a solid tang.


Had a look at the site Home - Thompson Tools (http://thompsonlathetools.com/)



114SRG 1-1/4" Spindle Rouging Gouge $200.00
Out of Stock (http://thompsonlathetools.com/product-list/?add-to-cart=477)

Years ago when / Retired was active, making huge 10 meter long spindles, he kept breaking roughing gouges. He would modify them by, I think, slipping the tang into a piece of tubing and welding that to the curved part, then fit that into the handle.


http://www.nswmensshed.org/SiteFiles/nswmensshed2012org/_Notice.pdf





I have a Narex 1 1/4 SRG that I bought barely used for US $40ish. It has the usual weak tang but works fine for my purposes. It sharpens well enough that I will use it start to finish on a tool handle and get as good a finish as using a skew. Roughing Gouge HSS | NAREX BYSTŘICE s.r.o. (http://www.narextools.cz/en/roughing-gouge-hss-8194)

[NeilS]

Doug Thompson makes an
1 1/4" Spindle Roughing Gouge with a solid tang.


Thanks Moby (& Paul) for drawing that to our attention.

Doug's SRG certainly does have a solid tang.

https://woodworld-of-texas.myshopify.com/collections/thompson-turning-tools/products/thompson-roughing-gouge-1-1- (https://woodworld-of-texas.myshopify.com/collections/thompson-turning-tools/products/thompson-roughing-gouge-1-1-4)4

I wasn't aware that Doug had added that to his tool line and he has definitely added that since I asked him (a long time ago now) if would he make me a 1" bowl gouge. At the time he said he had no plans to go beyond 3/4". He thought that anything above that would be too expensive to manufacture and the margins too small for his market. Looking at the price of the 1 1/4", I can see why he was thinking that.

Having searched back I can now see that Doug has been taking back orders for his 1 1/4" SRG and only doing a batch of those when he has enough orders to do a run.

For roughing down, I would put Doug's V10 ahead of the Carter M42. The M42 may take a keener edge but the V10 will hold its edge for longer. However, the V10 comes at a price.

As always....

[NeilS]

Years ago when / Retired was active, making huge 10 meter long spindles, he kept breaking roughing gouges. He would modify them by, I think, slipping the tang into a piece of tubing and welding that to the curved part, then fit that into the handle.



Yes, Paul, I think Retired (Ian) just welded a very long piece of water pipe to the blade and used it like that. He needed something very sturdy to cope with the big jobs he was doing!

If you have a serviceable SRG, but with one of those flimsy tangs and you have the necessary welding skills, that could be a cheaper solution, although you wouldn't want to make the weld area too brittle or you would be defeating the purpose of doing this.

Some of us have been known to use our SRGs on the outside (never on the inside) of large irregular shaped bowl blanks and a sturdy tang is essential if used for that purpose. Yes, I know that this is said to be a no-no and I'm not recommending that anyone use their SRG in that way, and even less so if your SRG has a flimsy tang. The forces become massive if a 1 1/4"gouge digs in on a large diameter piece!!!

As always...

[NeilS]

Hi Neil

How does the M42 steel compare with the Crown cryogenic M2 steel (https://www.timbecon.com.au/woodturning/turning-tools/roughing-gouges-cryogenic-steel)? I have a 32mm Crown roughing gauge for spindles, and it holds an edge in abrasive Jarrah extremely well.



Derek

In my experience M42 takes a keener edge, but doesn't noticeably hold its edge for that much longer (if at all) than M2 in our hard and abrasive woods like Jarrah.

If done well, cryogenic tempering should improve the edge retention of steels, although I haven't found that it makes a big difference in practice. In the case of my 1" Crown gouge, that is one of the poorer performers in my tool rack. However, my Crown Ellsworth gouge is one of my better M2 performers. Same manufacturer, same process, but variable performance. If you got a good one then stick with that!

Powdered metal production is another factor that will further improve edge retention and sharpness. The high vanadium steels particularity benefit from this.