Turning tools Help Please

[Witlinaway]

Hi, Newbie Alert I`m just getting into turning and have some old Bevel HSS chisels that are not holding an edge very well. I`m using the Vicmarc sharpening system with Aluminium wheels, soon to be 180GRT CBN. I like turning bowls and boxes, my question is should I go for a set or individual tools and what brand. And is a 180GRT CBN wheel sufficient or should I get a 240 also. Thankyou

[artful bodger]

Aluminium oxide wheels will put a very acceptable edge on your tools, don't bother going for cbn ones yet.
If your new to it, it just takes practice and seeing how a good grind works by some one who knows. Otherwise your just stabbing in the dark chaos of the unknown.

[NeilS]

Aluminium oxide wheels will put a very acceptable edge on your tools, don't bother going for cbn ones yet.
If your new to it, it just takes practice and seeing how a good grind works by some one who knows. Otherwise your just stabbing in the dark chaos of the unknown.+1 on Artful's comments.

Also, I'm a strong advocate of buying one good tool at a time. Get to know it before you buy the next one. You'll be more informed by then.

Given the turning you are intending to do, start with a good bowl gouge and a scraper after that.

You can't go far wrong with most of the well known dedicated woodturning tool makers.

Sent from my ZTE T84 using Tapatalk

[Witlinaway]

Thanks for the advice guys, I thought CbN might be a little bit less messy and no regular dressing, but they are not cheap so maybe I`ll stick to the Oxide for now. As for good tools, r Hamlet ok or should I look at some higher price bracket. Thanks Again.

[NeilS]

This one would be a good starting tool for bowls...

Hamlet M42 Stay Sharp HSS Tool Range (http://www.timberbits.com/hamlet-m42-stay-sharp-hss-tool-range)

I've not used Hamlet myself, but some of the experienced turners on the forum have and they might like to comment on its performance.

I have used M42 steel from other makers and I found that it takes a sharper edge than most other HSS.

[artful bodger]

On my second Hamlet parting tool in the last 2 years and they seem satisfactory. I prefer the P&N ones as they are slightly narrower BUT they dont make em any more...boohoohoo.
Robert Sorby's chisels seem quite good too. Just beware of buying older second hand chisels that are not made from HSS (high speed steel) or new Chinese ones that claim to be HSS but seem to be "Hot Sauteed Slag".
Also with the Aluninium oxide wheels, the white (coloured) ones are the go. Just saying this cause there are some that are not and they are not as good in mho.

[Witlinaway]

Thanks for the link Neil, I shall check them out.

[Witlinaway]

Hi Artbgr,My wheels are the white type, came with the Vicmarc slow speed grinder, but an evening of sharpening and slipping off the wheel now and then is turning my gaze back to a 40mm CBN.!! I see now the new Vicmarc grinder comes with a CBN wheel, which does make me cry!

[Fumbler]

Hi, Newbie Alert I`m just getting into turning and have some old Bevel HSS chisels that are not holding an edge very well. I like turning bowls and boxes, my question is should I go for a set or individual tools and what brand.

Make your own tools. I had the same problem as i didn't want to spend the money on a decent set of chisels. I had bought a small set of Gary Pye chisels but soon found i was needing to sharpen regularly or more than i would like to so made these carbide tipped puppies. in the pics tools left to right detail, roughing, shaper. Hand polished 12mm sq stainless.

[Witlinaway]

Very nice Fumbler, have considered trying out the carbide tools, but thought I would try to get the basics down pat with the traditional chisels first. They r still high on the to purchase list when the boss aint looking along with everything else!!

[NeilS]

made these carbide tipped puppies.

Nice looking shafts and handles, Fumbler.

My only comment on the carbides is that they are primarily used as a scraping tool. I recommend that new turners start with traditional 'cutting' tools and once they have mastered those they add the carbides to their tool rack if they then feel the need for them.

The carbides do have their uses (I have one in my tool rack), but I don't know any highly experienced turners who use them as their go-to tools for most of their turning. That should tell new turners something!

[mick661]

Once you have bought decent bowl and spindle gouges you can make most of the flat tools yourself.

[Fumbler]

Very nice Fumbler, have considered trying out the carbide tools, but thought I would try to get the basics down pat with the traditional chisels first. They r still high on the to purchase list when the boss aint looking along with everything else!!

Admirable, sentiment. I did exactly the same, and it's funny as I still haven't used the carbides yet, and that was over a year and a half ago, same as my Hamlets, have touched them yet either and it's been a year. When I get my lathe I'll use them.

[Fumbler]

Nice looking shafts and handles, Fumbler.

My only comment on the carbides is that they are primarily used as a scraping tool. I recommend that new turners start with traditional 'cutting' tools and once they have mastered those they add the carbides to their tool rack if they then feel the need for them.

The carbides do have their uses (I have one in my tool rack), but I don't know any highly experienced turners who use them as their go-to tools for most of their turning. That should tell new turners something!

Agreed. Learn the basics first.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

You say that you 'like turning bowls and boxes' so I assume that you have some experience...

For value-for-money I heartily recommend buying the tools un-handled. They're generally somewhere around 25% cheaper.

Although P&N are discontinued, they're still in stock in most wholesalers I know. I think. (Haven't actively gone looking... but although they've taken them off their on-line listings I know I've seen them on physical shelves.)

Your current tools should be enough to turn your own handles or, if you're a tad eccentric like some of us, you can use the unhandled tools to turn their own handles! :D

My suggestions would be a bowl gouge, a gently radiused scraper and a good parting tool. The parting tool can also be used as a square-nosed scraper in a pinch. (Unless it's the very thin, knife-blade style... which I do NOT recommend for a novice.)

[Paul39]

Witlinaway,

Assuming you have a bowl gouge and a scraper, learn to sharpen them and make bowls and boxes before you buy anything else. As to the tool slipping off the narrow wheel, just as learning to ride a bike or learning to drive, keeping balanced or staying in the lane, the sharpening will come with practice. Better to practice on the tools you have than on more expensive ones. Carbon steel and HSS steel will cut very well for a shorter time. Carbide tool can not be made as sharp as the carbon or HSS. With carbide you start with a slightly sharp tool that stays that way for a long time.

Bob Stocksdale turned these bowls with a HSS bowl gouge and a scraper:

https://www.google.com/search?q=bob+stocksdale+bowls&client=ubuntu&hs=xf0&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwim4uWxgqrcAhUk_4MKHehaCwsQ_AUICygC&biw=1440&bih=691

After you have spent 25 hours in front of the lathe, keeping tools sharp with your existing system, making bowls or boxes, THEN you will have a much better idea of what you want or need to buy.

It may be that you are not getting quite the right grind on the tools. Or maybe not presenting the tool to the timber at the best angle. A little advice or instruction from a competent turner will save many hours of trial and frustration.

I started with no instruction, a small metal lathe, a screwdriver and bench chisel sharpened on a belt sander. My early bowls took around 25 hours to make. Starting from a dry blank I can make a bowl and get the first coat of Tung oil on it in about 2 hours.

I now have about 10 bowl gouges, scrapers and many other tools HSS from many major manufacturers, and house brand Chinese, and several carbide tools. There is almost no difference in cutting quality or sharpness life with the HSS from the most expensive to the cheapest. I bought them all used at 1/2 price or less except for the 5/8 inch Crown bowl gouge which I bought new with Christmas crazy money.

I mostly use a 5/8 inch bowl gouge and a heavy 1 1/2 inch X3/8 inch thick round nose scraper for bowls. I make 90% bowls.


There is no substitute for thoughtful time in front of the lathe. Not more than two hours at a time at first, as you tire and make mistakes that may trash a bowl or hurt you.

Welcome to the addiction.

[Witlinaway]

" Can`t rush a good thing "

[Witlinaway]

Thanks for the advice Paul, I put a 55" on both my roughing gouge and a spindle gouge which I put a swept back grind on as it felt safer. I do have a skew and round nose scraper which I clean up with but getting them all to hold an edge well is a constant job. That said they do see alot of Jarrah , thats why I thought better steel and a CBN might make life easier. I got a piece of Camphor Laurel yesterday and made a small bowl which came out ok, I`ve discovered EEE and Shellawax finish which does a brilliant job. Cheers Rob

[Witlinaway]

Thanks for the link, that`s some really nice work.

[Fumbler]

I got a piece of Camphor Laurel yesterday and made a small bowl which came out ok, I`ve discovered EEE and Shellawax finish which does a brilliant job. Cheers Rob

Come on Rob, you cant get out of it that easy!! you turn something, you post a photo, GBO (Good, Bad or Otherwise).

I have just paid for but yet to pick it up a new midi lathe so will be posting photo's of a project on the burner very shortly.

[Witlinaway]

Ok will try, but that`s getting really technical for me. Remembering passwords for the computer is hard enough let alone uploads!

[blackhorse16a]

I definitely would not get CBN wheels yet for a few reasons. First, they are expensive. More importantly, sharpening skills are very important to turners. CBN wheels do not spark, and sparks are a good visual tool while sharpening.

[Essdubbya]

Beautiful work Fumbler. I have already bought square 12mm steel bar for a similar reason. I wish I had bought the stainless steel bar. I also intend using a few spare carbide cutters from my helical planer/thicknesser. I was wondering about the dimensions of the chisels, that is, the length of the bar protruding from the handle, the bar embedment length and diameter, the handle length and diameter and the ferrule diameter. The timber you used. Also I assume the bar is glued into the handle? What glue did you use?
I am a noob to wood turning so it will be a new experience for me all told. Also noob to metal milling and turning.
Am I crazy, stupid or brave?

[quercus]

Hot Sautéed Slag...Best Description Ever of those cheap Chinese gouges you get in a box set. I got given a set the other day from someone who'd had a go at turning and didn't progress., I didn't have the heart to put them in the scrap bin straight away, but that's all they are good for.


On my second Hamlet parting tool in the last 2 years and they seem satisfactory. I prefer the P&N ones as they are slightly narrower BUT they dont make em any more...boohoohoo.
Robert Sorby's chisels seem quite good too. Just beware of buying older second hand chisels that are not made from HSS (high speed steel) or new Chinese ones that claim to be HSS but seem to be "Hot Sauteed Slag".
Also with the Aluninium oxide wheels, the white (coloured) ones are the go. Just saying this cause there are some that are not and they are not as good in mho.

[Witlinaway]

Here's some bowls (and apple!) I've knocked out so far - clockwise from top left camphor laurel, native willow, manna gum, native willow, tassie blue gum (picture collage credit: management).
439826

[Paul39]

Here's some bowls (and apple!) I've knocked out so far - clockwise from top left camphor laurel, native willow, manna gum, native willow, tassie blue gum (picture collage credit: management).
439826

Top left bowl is beautiful. Nice work.

[Paul39]

Hot Sautéed Slag...Best Description Ever of those cheap Chinese gouges you get in a box set. I got given a set the other day from someone who'd had a go at turning and didn't progress., I didn't have the heart to put them in the scrap bin straight away, but that's all they are good for.

Admittedly, I don't have to deal with the thinly disguised concrete that passes for timber that you Aussies do, but there is a use for free cheap Chinese tools. Does one really need a $150 carbide tipped tool to part off a 30mm spindle? Yes carbon steel dulls faster, but how long does it take to freshen an edge?

One can do grinding experiments and get the feel for how something works without potentially wasting $$ high speed steel of your major brand tool. I like the figure of stumps and roots. I use home made tools of mystery metal or cheap Chinese to do the roughing out and to find the dirt, rocks, and sometimes nails and screws hidden in them.

I was raised by parents of Slovak ancestry who grew up during the depression. They made Scots look wasteful.

[quercus]

Fair point that- sharpening practice is a great idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Hot Sautéed Slag...Best Description Ever of those cheap Chinese gouges you get in a box set. I got given a set the other day from someone who'd had a go at turning and didn't progress., I didn't have the heart to put them in the scrap bin straight away, but that's all they are good for.

Also good for practising custom grinds on.

I've made a few ring tools, etc. that I've only needed to use once or twice for specific jobs. I feel a lot less guilty about reshaping a chaiwanese tool for these one-offs (then reshaping again for another one-off job) than I do about either making a good quality tool that'll only ever be used the once or wasting good steel if I re-use the same 'good' blank.