SawStop Professional just arrived!

[DaveVman]

Guess what was delivered last week!!! I took advantage of EOFY sales.
I just had to tell someone! :2tsup:

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Thanks a million to Bevan who came out and helped me get it on it's mobile base and up right.

This is a massive step up from my trusty Triton 2000.

One of my main criteria was a good fence. I had saved up enough for the Harvey. Then the wife was saying I should go all out and get a Sawstop. Buy once, cry once sort of thing.

I had been told that the new Carbatec saws were very similar to the Harvey.
While I went in to look at the SawStop I had a look at Carbatec's new table saws. The first one I looked at had a very average fence IMHO. Then I realised it probably had not been assembled correctly. I went to the next Carabatec saw and that fence was OK. However there was a definite difference between that fence and the SawStop fence on the Professional and Industrial models.

The SawStop contractors saw is about the same price as the Harvey cabinet saws. So budget wise that was an option and I see other Aussie woodworkers have gone that route. However I really wanted a cabinet saw and there is a definite step up to the Professional saw. Which there should be, given it is roughly twice the price. The wife encouraged me to buy something that will last me for many years.

To some degree you can fit various things from one model to another model. I noticed that one woodworker had upgraded the Contractors saw with all manner of upgrades. But when I looked at that, it's not much cheaper than going to the Professional Saw with it's larger motor and other advantages.

The promotion for the Professional Saw included a free 3 wheel mobile base and spare brake. I upgraded that mobile base to the Industrial Saw 4 wheel mobile base because that 4 wheel base can easily move in any direction. In my little shed that was absolutely vital. There are cheaper 4 wheel bases though. This one is hydraulic and effortless. Since it will get used extensively in my shed that was worth the upgrade. You have to also get the conversion kit to fit the Industrial mobile base to the Professional model because the Professional model has a smaller footprint. It's a simple conversion with the kit.
The same space constraints meant the 36" was the largest I could go for.

It is shipped on it's side and it is way, way beyond a single a single person to get it upright. We ended up using an engine crane.

I am still assembling the saw but already I can see the quality of it's construction. The assembly instructions could not be clearer.
I just have got very limited time in the shed at the moment so it's going to take time to get it up and running. I'm up to trying to figure out how to get the table wings level by myself at the moment.

I also need to source some 100mm flex hose as a temporary dust solution. So if you have any suggestions for that, please let me know.

Time permitting I'll try to make a video later of the assembly for any one interested.

[homey]

Hi Dave,

Congratulations on the Sawstop! We have the same model in our Men’s Shed and it is a beautifully made piece of kit. Rock solid with an excellent fence. It has saved one finger (not mine).

A good choice and I doubt you will ever regret it for a minute.

Brian

[DaveVman]

One question guys. Now that I will actually be able to rip at an angle, I want to get a digital gauge to check blade angle.
What do you guys recommend?
E.g. something like this: https://www.timbecon.com.au/measuring-marking/angle-gauges-protractors/3rd-gen-anglecube-bevel-gauge

Also, is it worth investing in a digital gauge to check the blade is parallel to the mitre or is that over the top for a hobbyist like me?
They say the SawStop is usually correct out of the box, which was one advantage of buying it but should I have the means to check that?

E.G. this looks cool: https://thewoodkid.com.au/shop/igaging-digialign-digital-alignment-system/

[homey]

Dave,

I have the Wixey version of the angle cube and it is brilliant for setting the angles on a table saw. I imagine the IGaging one would be equally good.

I also have a gauge to check the mitre slot to saw blade, but I only used it once. Could have done this just as well with my calipers. I suggest you borrow a gauge to start with and put the $80 towards something else.

By the way, I meant to say that our Sawstop Pro creates a lot of dust above the table that doesn’t get sucked away by the main dust outlet. If you’re hoping for a clean shop you might need to add the overhead boom arm that connects to the collector port on the back of the blade guard.

Brian

[Lappa]

With the angle gauges, make sure it has a back light. The one I bought doesn’t and it’s a PITA to read at an angle.

[DaveVman]

Dave,

I have the Wixey version of the angle cube and it is brilliant for setting the angles on a table saw. I imagine the IGaging one would be equally good.

I also have a gauge to check the mitre slot to saw blade, but I only used it once. Could have done this just as well with my calipers. I suggest you borrow a gauge to start with and put the $80 towards something else.

By the way, I meant to say that our Sawstop Pro creates a lot of dust above the table that doesn’t get sucked away by the main dust outlet. If you’re hoping for a clean shop you might need to add the overhead boom arm that connects to the collector port on the back of the blade guard.

Brian

I have some cheap digital calipers so I'll try those.

The overhead boom is expensive isn t it?

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[Enfield Guy]

What length of 100mm do you need Dave? I might have a bit I can loan you as an interim measure. Though I prolly won't need it longer term.

Thank your wife for lunch, and dinner on Monday night. That was super delicious.
Ill see you tomorrow anyway.
Cheers

[barri]

They say the SawStop is usually correct out of the box, which was one advantage of buying it but should I have the means to check that?


I bought the same saw just before Xmas and love it. Out of the box it was 0.01" out of alignment which according to Sawstop is just within tolerance but I wasn't happy with that setting so I followed the steps in the instructional video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Cm2o1Vshg ) and had it to within 0.001" in under a half an hour. So it is worth checking. I didn't use any fancy alignment system just a cheap dial indicator attached to my miter gauge. The hardest part was loosening the 4 bolts. Happy to help if you need it

Congrats!

[Enfield Guy]

I was expecting to see more photos of the assembled machine by now.

Hurry up Dave!!

Just jokin'

[DaveVman]

I was expecting to see more photos of the assembled machine by now.

Hurry up Dave!!

Just jokin'Yeah sorry about that. Some bloke walked in off the street into my house and started ripping the kitchen apart.

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[Treecycle]

I reckon you want one of the Wixey angle gauges from Professional Woodwork Supplies. You seem like the guy who would enjoy the phone app that goes with it.
For some reason I can't copy the URL on their new site layout but here is the path to it. Just click on Angle measuring and it will take you there, first one on the page.




Home (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/) » Measuring & Set-out (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/c/4584534/1/measuring-set-out.html) » Digital Read-outs (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/c/4584582/1/digital-read-outs.html) » Angle Measuring (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/c/4584590/1/angle-measuring.html) » Digital Angle Gauge with Back Light & Bluetooth- Wixey

[DaveVman]

I reckon you want one of the Wixey angle gauges from Professional Woodwork Supplies. You seem like the guy who would enjoy the phone app that goes with it.
For some reason I can't copy the URL on their new site layout but here is the path to it. Just click on Angle measuring and it will take you there, first one on the page.




Home (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/) » Measuring & Set-out (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/c/4584534/1/measuring-set-out.html) » Digital Read-outs (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/c/4584582/1/digital-read-outs.html) » Angle Measuring (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/c/4584590/1/angle-measuring.html) » Digital Angle Gauge with Back Light & Bluetooth- Wixey








That link doesn't seem to work but I found the site. I'm all in favour of gadgets and phone apps but in this case I can't see the point. They have the same backlit gauge without Bluetooth for almost half the price.


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[Treecycle]

Yes I agree and I am thinking of getting the standard one myself. I have had the Bevel Box from Carbatec for many years and if I don't remove the battery after use it goes flat. I don't believe this happens with the Wixey.
The link is weird as it works for me for some reason. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I have already been there, but it's above my IT knowledge so don't know.

[DaveVman]

It's a good idea to remove dry cells from a seldom used device anyway because they can corrode. E.G. I only put the battery in my stud finder when I use it, which is maybe twice a year at most.

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[DaveVman]

OK so I've only assembled the base saw. Not the extension, rails and fence yet. This is due to various social events and also because I had to remake the kitchen cabinets and install a dishwasher. Which now has a fault. (Another story).

I have attached the 2 wings to the base unit as per the excellent instructions. However I seem to have found the only possible flaw in the instructions. It says to level the wings and tighten the nuts. However this doesn't seem possible.
Everything else about these instructions are so completely explicit and clear, so I'm wondering why it doesn't explain how to get these wings level.
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I have got the wings aligned with the base. I used my special accurate quality checking device (also known as my finger tip and eye ball) to make sure they are in alignment with the base. However there is nothing to stop them sagging away from the center base. They sag about 2+mm each, away from the center so it's significant. Am I supposed to find a way to shim these wings up to level or will it will work itself out once I put the fence rails on?

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P.S. I noticed the request for photos. I'm videoing the whole assembly process so eventually in my glacial style I'll put together a series of videos of the entire process for anyone interested.

[aldav]

Yes you'll have to shim them, it's not uncommon to have to do this. Get some brass shim from an engineering place.

[homey]

Dave,

There was no need to shim ours. At the moment (without rails) you have a great deal of weight on those few bolts at the edges nearest the blade. Once you put the rails on you should find (as I did) that everything comes into alignment.

Brian

[DaveVman]

Thanks for the quick replies guys. Even if it has been conflicting advice so far I appreciate your input.

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[DaveVman]

Turns out step 6 of installing the fence system says to level the wings with the outer bolt on the rails.

pic with rails....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/b07d0d339b98cf6a2d5928247b060fb5.jpg

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[DaveVman]

To be honest, so far, I can't get the front level no matter what I do. Even though I have the rear almost perfect as you can see in the picture.
On the front, both wings still sag. About half of the previous sag but still clearly not level.

I prop up the front with some timber. Then I loosen and tighten the outer screw on the front rail. When I remove the prop the front outside sags down a little.
I tried again with some gentle, percusion persuasion to jolt it up. Again it looks fine when a tighten the screw but when I remove the prop it drops out of level slightly. It's a bit suspicious that it is the same for both wings on the front, yet this method works fine for both wings on the rear.
Could it be something about how I mounted the front rail?
Perhaps I need to remove the extension table and loosen the entire front rail and try again? Perhaps that front rail is sitting a mm too low to start with? If I can get some shed time tonight I'll give that a go.
My uneven floor couldn't cause this - could it? It's very uneven forward to rear. (2 different slabs).

Do I need to take aldav's advise and shim the front only? I'm reluctant to do that, partly because I might be introducing a new problem if I shim only one side. {Also partly because I would need to source some shims and I don't know what size to ask for}.

I have started to add the extension table on the right, but what happens when I try to make that level? Will I just create a compounded problem?

Nothing in my workshop is truly flat. Since I went way over budget with this saw, I was really hoping I'd end up with one perfectly flat surface.

[barri]

The left wing on mine together with the center section is flat but the bottom front corner on the right wing is down a bit (about a 1mm or less) but most of the rest of the right wing is OK. I thought about removing the rails and starting again but I realised that all my cuts regardless of size are smooth, parallel and square. So I'm going to leave it. I even doubt whether I can make it much better. I know that with an expensive saw like this you expect perfection but I'm letting the quality of my cuts decide whether I need to adjust anything. In fact, talking to the guy at Carbatec, he felt and I now agree that getting the wings absolutely flat was an overrated concern as long as its "close" enough. The adjustments that need to be good are blade slot parallelism, fence parallelism with maybe a slight run out and blade 90 deg to the top.

Dave have you done any cuts?

[aldav]

The wings are bolted to the centre table? If so, and the wings are out of level, then when you're fitting the rails you're trying to pull the wings into alignment using the outside bolts on the rails. This will never work as the two fixing points are effectively fighting against one another. You need to level the wing before you fit the rail. Shim is sold in sheets of various thicknesses and you can cut it up with a pair of scissors. (Suggest you don't use the wife's dressmaking scissors for this if you'd like to continue living.) Shim can usually be bought in a small packet of mixed thicknesses at any decent engineering supplies place.

[homey]

Dave,

Can you show us pics of the front? If I remember correctly we bolted the wings on underneath then attached the front and back rails. Since the rails bolt into holes in the wings and the main saw and the rails themselves are straight, I’m having difficulty understanding how the table surface could not be flat. Are we talking about the cast iron wings or the big black table extension on the right hand side as you stand in front of the table?

Given the high quality of components and instructions with Sawstop I think they’d be upfront if there was a likelihood not getting the table flat. Some pics might help.

Cheers,

Brian

[barri]

Shim can usually be bought in a small packet of mixed thicknesses at any decent engineering supplies

OK aldav you got me curious about shimming so while I said I was not going to try and get my right wing perfect I spent the afternoon doing exactly that. I took off all the rails, extension table etc and loosened the 4 bolts that hold that wing. I found some old dado shims I don't use anymore. After some trial and error I found the right size, cut it to fit and using a good straight edge and wixey digital cube I ended up with a perfect right wing. No sag in the front corner as I mentioned above. Will it give me better cuts using that wing? Probably not but I must admit I do feel better having a perfectly flat top on an expensive saw. :)
Thanks for triggering my curiosity.

EDIT Brian, there is no way known I could have done this without shimming. The rail could not get the wing into alignment despite hours of fiddling. Maybe not all wings are dead straight.

[elanjacobs]

Will it give me better cuts using that wing? Probably not but I must admit I do feel better having a perfectly flat top on an expensive saw. :)
That's basically what it comes down to.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, but it's only for your own satisfaction; much like polishing a hand plane sole or sharpening a chisel to 12000 grit :rolleyes:

[Handyjack]

One reason for trying to get it all level, is not so much for cuts, but if you do glue ups or assembly work on the table.

[DaveVman]

Dave,

Can you show us pics of the front? If I remember correctly we bolted the wings on underneath then attached the front and back rails. Since the rails bolt into holes in the wings and the main saw and the rails themselves are straight, I’m having difficulty understanding how the table surface could not be flat. Are we talking about the cast iron wings or the big black table extension on the right hand side as you stand in front of the table?

Given the high quality of components and instructions with Sawstop I think they’d be upfront if there was a likelihood not getting the table flat. Some pics might help.

Cheers,

BrianI am talking about the cast iron wings. They are each attached to the center with 4 bolts so that is all that is supporting them until the rails go on.
Each rail then has a bolt which goes into the outside corner of each wing.

I started to put the black extn table on but I think I'll take that off and sort out this issue with the iron wings first.

Here is a pic of the front but I don't think you can see this clearly on camera at night.
The left front corner only sags about 1mm. but the more important right front outer corner is still about 2mm or more down.

The advise about shims makes logical sense when you look at what is supporting it. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180731/90aa94c9359960269175c252e59144ba.jpg

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[DaveVman]

Dave have you done any cuts?

No. I haven't even fitted the blade or turned it on yet.


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[DaveVman]

One reason for trying to get it all level, is not so much for cuts, but if you do glue ups or assembly work on the table.Exactly. I don't plan on slopping glue all over it but if I had one flat surface at least I could place something on it and check if it sits flat.
Plus it with the way it is now there is a real risk of not getting a proper square cut.

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[Enfield Guy]

Dave,
a packet of shim stock can be acquired from Qld Fasteners in Pritchard Rs. Might cost $20. Various thicknesses. I'd come down and do it with my shim stock but you would need to wait till a day next week. Might take a few hours to muck about with it.

cheers
B

[Enfield Guy]

Exactly. I don't plan on slopping glue all over it but if I had one flat surface at least I could place something on it and check if it sits flat.
Plus it with the way it is now there is a real risk of not getting a proper square cut.

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The first drop of glue on the table will be a horrific accident, the 100th will be a consequence of work undertaken.

[barri]

Exactly. I don't plan on slopping glue all over it


Agreed! There is no way known a drop of glue is going anywhere near my saw.

EDIT ... Dave, Its time to start shimming. Its fiddly but it works. One piece of advice when you start. When you find the right size shim after checking with a straight edge, the tightening of the bolts can throw it out. I had to keep an eye on the straight edge as I was tightening the bolts to see if any gaps formed. When they did I went with smaller. Ended up using a 0.005" shim only on the front edge, didn't need a shim on the back which told me the wing wasn't perfect to start with and I'm sure that's what's happening to you.

[Enfield Guy]

Cut up a sort drink can for the shim stock..

[DaveVman]

Thanks for the kind offer of help Bevan. On Friday afternoon I bought some brass shim stock. I spent this morning working on it and getting it all flat. I'm much happier with it now.
I'm doing the final touches of assembly and adjustments to the saw now.

Next step will be some kind of dust collection ducting.

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[barri]

I'm doing the final touches of assembly and adjustments to the saw now.



I'm interested to find out how your blade/slot parallelism was out of the box. Mine was 0.01" which Sawstop claims is within tolerance but I found that too much of an error and adjusted it.

[DaveVman]

I'm interested to find out how your blade/slot parallelism was out of the box. Mine was 0.01" which Sawstop claims is within tolerance but I found that too much of an error and adjusted it.I don't know what 0.01" is but I only have some plastic digital calipers so I don't know how accurate I can be. I am going to have to pack it in for today because my wife is complaining about being a shed widow.

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[Midnight Man]

I don't know what 0.01" is

It works out to 0.254mm.

My PCS was pretty good out of the box - from memory about that much.

This thread prompted me to go look at it again, mainly because of a recent new toy that arrived: https://thewoodkid.com.au/shop/igaging-digialign-digital-alignment-system/

To be confirmed tomorrow, I got it dialled in to 0.03mm tonight - and I'm thinking that might be good enough to leave it as it is ;)

[Midnight Man]

Going to drop in a quick update here.

SawStop will tell you to check the table saw alignment with a combination square using the method outlined here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Cm2o1Vshg

If you're using a combination square, I am sure that method works really well.

If, on the other hand, you're using an analogue or digital alignment gauge (e.g. the item I posted in the preceding post), then I would suggest altering the alignment point - use the body of the saw blade right near a particular tooth, rather than the edge of a tooth itself. Becausr the edge of a tooth is a "knife edge", it's really tricky to get your alignment gauge on the exact same spot every time, whereas it's relatively easy to do that on the body of the saw blade itself.

[barri]

It works out to 0.254mm.

My PCS was pretty good out of the box - from memory about that much.

This thread prompted me to go look at it again, mainly because of a recent new toy that arrived: https://thewoodkid.com.au/shop/igaging-digialign-digital-alignment-system/

To be confirmed tomorrow, I got it dialled in to 0.03mm tonight - and I'm thinking that might be good enough to leave it as it is ;)

0.03mm is close to .001" which is great and about what I got after adjusting. Your lucky you didn't have to do it.

So I'd leave it at that

[Midnight Man]

0.03mm is close to .001" which is great and about what I got after adjusting. Your lucky you didn't have to do it.

So I'd leave it at that

I should clarify that - the measurement of 0.03 was after adjustment. Out of the box it was out by around 0.25mm - still within SawStop's tolerance, but I thought I could tweak it a bit :)