table saws

[Zed]

at the moment im researching table saws. I'm undecided whether I should just get a carba tech 10 HD table saw, to save up for a delta unisaw, a powermatic or some such mid range or save even more and get a hammer or holz profi sliding table saw.

I imagine if I save up for a Ham or holz i'll be saving for a while however if I do go for the top end I'll prob go for the holz as it has a scoring blade as standard. however hammer sent me a lovely video the other day and thier sliding table saw is very nice.

I have been told (by someone who has a vested interest in another brand) the hammer is a bit light on construction - Ie some of the bolts and bits inside the unit are a tad minimal - a worry if you are going for the top end of town, you'd expect more... wouldnt you ?

The holz has a good write up in AWR, does anyone have any direct experience with either the hammer K3 or the Holz FP1200L ? I'd be interested in some bipartizan opinions with no axes to grind. In fact I find that a tad annoying, sales weenies who slag other manufacturers of products whilst upiing themselves or thier product. we need a better yardstick to beat them with methinks...

now I know that you lot are gunna say "how much panelling product do you cut?" well the answer is bugger all really, but I like the idea of a sliding table and not needing to build a frikken sled. it also falls into my personal policy of buy once, buy well and if I get a slideing table of quality I can say well I dont need a SCMS do I ?. Hence you would have noticed that I did not mention the sherwood slide table which got panned by the review in AWR!!!

how about the schepparch sliding table saw ?

what about some opinions about other brands ? can a delat unisaw be upgraded to include a slide ?

quesiotns quesiotns!!!

cheers to all except oz & grunt :D

[Grunt]

All I will say is that I have the TSC-10HB. It is a really great saw. I'm sure that the other saws are better but the 10HB cuts very accurately and it only takes a small amount of time to build. Can you justify the extra cost?

Oooh, and one other thing is that I find you very attractive.

[soundman]

Have a look at the mbs300 several of the members have them & they are built like a brick monkey cage. you can have a slider or not & they are not light on in any thing.
A mate has a unisaw, I'll have my mbs thanks.
thats if you want bigger tha tsc10hb.
cheers

[Harry72]

Sure a Falcodoor will do the job well but... a sleek red Mercedes CLK 55 AMG Speedshift is much nicer!

Im sure Felder could help you out.

[craigb]

Zed mate, you just know that you are talking yourself into a quality Euro TS.

My $0.0002 would be that basically, like most of the rest of us, you are a weekend warrior.

The TSC-10HB which is a Unisaw clone, will meet 98% of your needs.

If you want to drop 5 or 6 grand on a euro TS, well that's your call.

What did J-man Mick pay for his new offenbach or whatever it's called?

[rodm]

The MBS300 is a great unit and so is the sliding table attachment for it. If you use dado blades then it could be a problem with this saw.
I wish somebody would come up with a decent sliding table for the TSC10HB. :(

[Iain]

I recall seeing in a Delta catalogue that there is a scoring blade available as an accessory (the kit, blade, belt mounting etc).
I can't find the catalogue now (of course) and don't know what saw it was for or for any model.
Probably worth a follow up.

[echnidna]

Zed,
The ONE big disadvantage of buying THE very best tool you can afford is that you limit the capital available for all the other worthwhile tools.
Unless you have a variety of tools you are unlikely to pick up the variety of handskills that enable you to make everything you might someday decide to make.

The 10HB is a good saw capable of being used to make almost anything.
Scribing blades will get very little use unless you're into mdf and chipboard.
IMHO they're a waste of money for a solid woodworker.

Why not allocate the cost of the most expensive saw you have considered to your workshop fund. Use this fund to get a selection of good quality tools.

[boban]

Zed you know I have both. I'll keep it simple and tell you to buy the TSC-10HB or Unisaw if you want to dump the extra grand on an virtually identical saw.

You do not need a scriber. Its only good for laminates/melamine IMHO. No real difference with veneers. For the time you use laminates, a quick pass on the router table to take off 1mm will give you a perfect finish.

Another thing with a slider is that you need a heap of room in front of and behind the saw to account for the travel. If I did not use so much panel product I would have never bought my panel saw.

You like quality, I know that. You wont be dissappointed with the TSC or even the JET and Delta equivalents. For what you do Zed, me thinks a cabinet saw is the ideal saw.

[Simomatra]

The MBS300 is a great unit and so is the sliding table attachment for it. If you use dado blades then it could be a problem with this saw.
I wish somebody would come up with a decent sliding table for the TSC10HB. :(

What is the problem with using dado blades on the MBS300?

Cheers Sam

[Rocker]

now I know that you lot are gunna say "how much panelling product do you cut?" well the answer is bugger all really, but I like the idea of a sliding table and not needing to build a frikken sled.

Why wouldn't you want to build a sled? You can easily do it in a morning's work for a cost of about $25. A well-built sled is probably more accurate than all but the high-end sliding tables, and does the same job, unless you need to cut large panels. See the current issue of Australian Woodworker for my article on building a sled.

Rocker

[outback]

wotsa main difference between the 10HB and the TS-12R. Besides the fact ones 10" and ones 12".

You can get a sliding table if ya wanna.

[lesmeyer]

Zed,
just my tuppence worth after only having the 10HB for 2 weeks. You only need a scoring blade if you will be cutting a lot of Melamine (even then you can use 0 clearance insert to help). In fact I have a CMT 80 tooth blade on the 10HB and so far using the standard insert provided. Absolutely NO tearout on any timber (soft and hard) as well as plywood (crosscut and rip). In fact some ripping was performed with this blade and the result is perfect. With melamine there was only minor tearout on the bottom side. IMHO the choice of blade will be extremely important for any tablesaw. I am tempted to look at the Forrest blades especially for the SCMS. Their blades are highly regarded all round.
As Rocker has pointed out, a well constructed sled will out perform all but the high end sliding tables. His article in the latest Australian Woodworker is excellent - especially the method of fixing the miter sliders to the base.
Regards
Les

[MajorPanic]

Go on be a primate devil & buy a Hammer or Holz you won't regret it.

If you don't buy a good slide/panel saw NEVER have a go on one as you will be kicking yerself forever for not buying one!! ;)

All this is a moot point though........ never let a chimp near a saw!! :D :D




PS: If you have never used a good sliding/panel saw comments about sleds are only relevant to your own experience.

[rodm]

[QUOTE=Simomatra]What is the problem with using dado blades on the MBS300?

The arbor on the MBS300 is not long enough to take a dado blade but other than that it is an excellent saw.

[Rocker]

[/b]
PS: If you have never used a good sliding/panel saw comments about sleds are only relevant to your own experience.


Touché; but nevertheless, I don't see the need for a sliding table, unless you are dealing with large panels. Major, enlighten us about what we are missing, if we don't have a sliding table.

Rocker

[Zed]

can someone plese explain the meanings of left tilt, right tilt, abour ?

[boban]

When you look at the saw from the front the blade will either tilt left or right, not both.

the arbour is what the saw blade is attached to.

[craigb]

O.K. I'll have a go. :)

Essentially, it means which side of the saw the motor is mounted on.

So A TSC-10HB has it's motor mounted on the right side of the saw, this means that when you tilt the blade it tilts to the right which is towards the fence. Because TS Fences are always on the right of the blade.

A left tilt arbor obviously tilts the other way and away from the fence. This is actually safer because it means that when you are doing a bevel cut, the stock can't get trapped between the blade and the fence and kick back at you.

This is the theory as I understand it.

In reality, I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference.

[E. maculata]

#1-What the Major said x 2,
#2 I reckon the boys have described L/R tilt & arbour adequately enough for young apes :p

[Gumby]

can someone plese explain the meanings of left tilt, right tilt, abour ?


There are 2 considerations with arbor size. The diameter and the length. The diameter matches the whole in the blade (obviously) which is marked on the blade as the bore. usually the bore is 16mm in the saws we use for weekend work like in the TSC10-HB or my Leda 12HK. You can get 30mm bore blades with reducing washers in them to make them 16mm. etc.

Dado blades need the arbor to be long enough to hold all the blades and then have enough thread left to safely screw the nut back on to hold them on. Dados, like other blades come in a variety of bore sizes. 16, 30, 35 etc.

There was a thread a while ago about dados and the TSC-10HB. I think the arbor LENGTH was around 30 - 32mm and the diam (or bore) is 16mm (see photo). That is fine for most dado blades. Usually, the timber would be 19mm so that's about the widest dado cut you'll need most of the time. So if the dado blades are taking up 19mm (approx) of the available arbor, there's still enough thread sticking out to put on the flange plate and the nut. If you need your dados any wider, you can always take 2 passes.

Make sure that whatever saw you get, will take those dado blades.

(sorry about the typo on the photo but it just wouldn't be me without one. At least you know it's a genuine 'Gumbied' photo :D )

[Caliban]

Gumby
I wouldn't want to try ripping thin timber on your saw, it'd fall down that big hole. :eek: Talk about an infinite clearance. :D

[Iain]

My dado set is hirstute :D :D :D

[silentC]

Don't buy a TSC10HB, Zed.









(Reverse psychology)

[Wongo]

Listen to SilentC, Zed. :D

[Simomatra]

[QUOTE=Simomatra]What is the problem with using dado blades on the MBS300?

The arbor on the MBS300 is not long enough to take a dado blade but other than that it is an excellent saw.

Rod as the owner of a MBS300 I would have to agree that the arbor supplied is too short but they now can supply another arbor to support the dado blades

Zed I am only a new comer to all this woodwork but I purchased the my saw some months ago and have been suitable impressed since. I have the sliding table attachment as well. Originally looked at all sorts but am very happy with my choice. Price was ok as well. Purchased through Gregory machinery in Brisbane available else where by the woodman group.

Buy the best you can afford you won't be dissapointed

Cheers Sam http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif

[bennylaird]

My heart is set on a Jet Supersaw....

Any one using one?

[bennylaird]

Like this one....

[echnidna]

THIS (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Table-saw-and-Extraction-fan_W0QQitemZ7553281515QQcategoryZ105776QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) is on Ebay now. Might even pick it up cheap
(as long as pigs can fly)

and if you really want the Rolls Royce of saws there is also an Altendorf on Ebay too.

[boban]

Like this one....

That looks new benny. Where did you see that?

[gpsmith]

Benny the pic you attached is of a cabinet saw. The supersaw - I have one with a sliding table - as per pic has 4 rather prominant feet, the motor is enclosed like the cabinet saw, it is a left tilting saw. Unless you have a big shed/garage you will need to put it on wheels to move it around your workshop.
It's a great saw.

[bennylaird]

That looks new benny. Where did you see that?

I grabbed the pic from the Jet web page.

The one I am after is was on display at the Melb wood (Lumber?) show, may have the wrong pic but it was the Supersaw.

THe wheel carriage for it allows easy movement.

[Wongo]

Zed my son, the supersaw is a good option too. I love mine. :)

Whatever you do please build yourself a crosscut sled (instead of the sliding table). Please please please!

[Noel157]

Benny, your picture is of the up-dated 2006 model SuperSaw. Older model had legs, now it's just a cabinet. On some markets the fence has also been upgraded to the Xacta fence. Not sure if the Oz market will have the new fence.
Other than that it's the same, although no doubt there will be a price increase for the '06 model year.

Noel

[MajorPanic]

Touché; but nevertheless, I don't see the need for a sliding table, unless you are dealing with large panels. Major, enlighten us about what we are missing, if we don't have a sliding table.

Rocker


Quickly & simply docking long boards to length without having to set up any supports
Triming table tops or doors
1200mm infront of blade
With a 45º angled board - wide miters
Sorry for the slow reply had network/firewall problems :mad:......... fixed now :D

[echnidna]

MP you forgot easy cutting of fullsize sheets