Which router for table set up

[qwertyu]

I plan on getting the Makita RP2301FC for handheld use:
https://www.makita.com.au/products/power-tools/categories/specialty-woodworking/rp2301fc-12-7mm-1-2-plunge-router

And will need another one for table use. I like the idea of getting another one as this thing seems to be pretty powerful and I've been told generally people need more power for table routing

Im unsure how I am going to adjust the height though - would like to hear people's opinions.

The router raizer system
https://www.timbecon.com.au/routing/router-tables-accessories/router-raizer-height-winder-kit

but it appears that its only suitable for older makitas.

And for bit changes to use a collet extender with an allen bolt to lock it down

Another option is to just get the triton which can do it all, but I've read that they're not that good/as well made these days.

Also just saw the Hitachi, havent done any reading on it yet but it looks like it will be compatible (the M12V is listed this is M12VE I assume the bodies are pretty much the same)
https://www.google.com/search?q=hitachi+m12ve&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab

[China]

If I were to built another router table I would use something like this https://www.woodpeck.com/prlv2.htm

[qwertyu]

I saw the woodpeckers router lift, timbecon looks like they have same thing too. Its just very expensive lol basically the price of another router. I suppose I can get that and only buy 1 router but I would imagine it get annoying taking it off the mechanism.

China - have you had a play with that router lift? Is it really good?

[Spyro]

Hi gwertyu

This might be irrelevant to you but I just throwing it out there: I did my first router table a month ago and I kinda got lost with all the options. In the end someone here said "keep it simple" and that's what I did: basically I made a benchtop router table, which means it sits a little higher than my other surfaces, I chose a (used) router with easily accessible controls and I made the front of the table completely open. Clear insert so I can see what I'm doing from the top, and I just put my hands through and make all the adjustments I want. Done, works great.

No moving parts that I will never really know how well they work with my specific router and setup until I actually buy and install them.

[PJM16]

I've got the RP2301FC in my router table. I'm happy with changing bits under the table (for now anyway).

The RP2301FC also comes with a really long screw intended to be used for table mounted height adjustment(remove the springs if you go with this option) which I've setup, plus a knob to put on the fine adjustment thread as another option.

[qwertyu]

Hi gwertyu

This might be irrelevant to you but I just throwing it out there: I did my first router table a month ago and I kinda got lost with all the options. In the end someone here said "keep it simple" and that's what I did: basically I made a benchtop router table, which means it sits a little higher than my other surfaces, I chose a (used) router with easily accessible controls and I made the front of the table completely open. Clear insert so I can see what I'm doing from the top, and I just put my hands through and make all the adjustments I want. Done, works great.

No moving parts that I will never really know how well they work with my specific router and setup until I actually buy and install them.

I do have an old makita router (cant remember the model number) that could be used in a table setup, but however I choose to set it up, I would like to be able to swap it with a new one easily without too much hassle. TBH I would rather get a good set up going. I dont want to spend time messing around with things that arent set up well as im pretty impatient! lol


I've got the RP2301FC in my router table. I'm happy with changing bits under the table (for now anyway).

The RP2301FC also comes with a really long screw intended to be used for table mounted height adjustment(remove the springs if you go with this option) which I've setup, plus a knob to put on the fine adjustment thread as another option.

Oh the Makita is has been designed with table mounting in mind? I had a look through the box at total tools and couldnt see anything. I did notice that there was a thread thing on the opposite side of the microadjust and didnt know what that was for.

Any chance you can take some pics of your makita set up and how to raise/lower it?

440646
You can see the silver cylinder on the RHS
and a close up here:
440647

[Tccp123]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hemWPzLiFY

[China]

qwertyu No I have not used that particular lift, the one I had is no longer produced, I still have the 3hp router however i now have a spindle moulder and have no need for a router table
so I gave it away

[HypnoToad]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hemWPzLiFY

I use one of these, see my comments as Joe Blow, I had to buy two left handed nuts to secure the crank I made, I glued two wooden supports on the top so as not to block the air flow, the scissor lift works so well I wouldn't use any other method.


440679

[aldav]

The RP2301FC is ideal for table use - adjustable speed, tons of power and above table height adjustment. The 'cylinder' that you've pictured is the above table raising and lowering mount. About the only problems with this is that it's rather slow (standard M6 1mm thread pitch) and the drive is a phillips head (PH3 screw driver) rather than a hex head. If anything the RP2301FC is too big, heavy and powerful for out of the table use so why not dedicate it to table use and use your other router for hand held use?

[aldav]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hemWPzLiFY

Tccp123 should get a commission on every one of those scissor lifts sold, the sales skyrocketed after he posted that Youtube video. :wink:

[qwertyu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hemWPzLiFY

Thanks! Ill have a look


The RP2301FC is ideal for table use - adjustable speed, tons of power and above table height adjustment. The 'cylinder' that you've pictured is the above table raising and lowering mount. About the only problems with this is that it's rather slow (standard M6 1mm thread pitch) and the drive is a phillips head (PH3 screw driver) rather than a hex head. If anything the RP2301FC is too big, heavy and powerful for out of the table use so why not dedicate it to table use and use your other router for hand held use?

Thanks. Does the RP2301FC come with the phillip head threaded screw/rod or is this a part I need to buy? Will I need a nut or anything else? Or is it a screwn that screws up on the cylinder part and is held in position from table top. Do you happen to have a pic of how its done (maybe Im an idiot but I dont really get it)

The old Makita I have looks exactly like the one in tcccp's video. The plunging mechanism isn't very smooth though. which is why I'm considering a new one. I think for handheld use, it will include flattening slabs - do you think a smaller router would be ok? the other use I see myself using a router for is things like roundovers etc and maybe cutting mortises too.

[Tccp123]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK7rK6Vg8uQ

[aldav]

Thanks. Does the RP2301FC come with the phillip head threaded screw/rod or is this a part I need to buy? Will I need a nut or anything else? Or is it a screwn that screws up on the cylinder part and is held in position from table top. Do you happen to have a pic of how its done (maybe Im an idiot but I dont really get it)

The old Makita I have looks exactly like the one in tcccp's video. The plunging mechanism isn't very smooth though. which is why I'm considering a new one. I think for handheld use, it will include flattening slabs - do you think a smaller router would be ok? the other use I see myself using a router for is things like roundovers etc and maybe cutting mortises too.

The machine screw comes with the router. I've left the springs in my router and I wonder how well the above table adjustment would work without them. The screw goes through the base and pulls/pushes the router through the threaded section on the body (it's not attached to the base), so without the springs you've only got the weight of the router to pull the whole thing down. If you got some debris under the screw, between the head of the screw and the base, problems would eventually result. You have to bore a hole in your router plate to allow access to the head of the screw and debris collects in the hole very readily. A regular blow out or vacuum is a must.

A few different models of Makita's look pretty much the same, my hand held one is a 3612, it's too big and heavy for some more delicate jobs, but there's plenty of power for virtually any job. One of the problems if you get a smaller router for hand held use is that it's best to get something with the same size collet, so you don't have to buy the same bit in different shank sizes, this tends to limit your choices. I'd personally be having a look at improving the plunge mechanism on your current Makita, you should be able to get it very good without a lot of work.

The second video Tccp123 has linked to is well worth a look. There are a lot of different mortising jigs on the net, but his is certainly one of the better ones. :2tsup:

[HypnoToad]

The screw goes through the base and pulls/pushes the router through the threaded section on the body (it's not attached to the base), so without the springs you've only got the weight of the router to pull the whole thing down. If you got some debris under the screw, between the head of the screw and the base, problems would eventually result. You have to bore a hole in your router plate to allow access to the head of the screw and debris collects in the hole very readily. A regular blow out or vacuum is a must.

I did this with my Bosch router and bored a hole through the base, I got a M6 x 1mm thread hex headed stainless steel 140mm long bolt from Ebay, it worked fine even with the springs in it and I made a crank to fit the bolt head, the only downside I found was that you had to wind and wind and wind, it's not very quick, some people suggest using a cordless drill to make it quicker. You can get very fine adjustments as well.

The scissor lift with the crank handle attached alleviates the problem because it's fast to wind up and down and at the same time small adjustments can be made, of course it's under the table but I like that too as I have to have my eyes down to the router table top level to measure the height of the bit anyway.

Either method has it's advantages and disadvantages, and since your Makita already has the screw setup you only need to buy a bolt/screw for it so I would try that first, you can always go the scissor lift method later if you find it too slow for your liking.

[Just George]

With the new Carbatec Router Table systems, you can use any router you want. The mounting plate has a multitude of holes for mounting, and the winder system works exceptionally well.


Router tables - kits
https://www.carbatec.com.au/routing-and-shaping/router-tables/router-tables?SortProduct=PriceRRPInc%20DESC&PageProduct=1

Router table components
https://www.carbatec.com.au/routing-and-shaping/router-tables/router-table-components?PageSizeProduct=36&SortProduct=ProductCode%20DESC&PageProduct=1

[Chris Parks]

I might put my two bob's worth in here and ask why use a router with all its unneeded features in a table if it never going to be removed and used as a hand held router? A CNC spindle with two guide rails and a single ACME thread screw would do the job better and way cheaper and have none of the inbuilt problems of a conventional router table system. The CNC spindle, two rails and some threaded rod would set you back $500 tops plus the cost of the table and it has a way better chuck system, the VFD will control speed better with braking if needed for larger bits.

[Chris Parks]

Rails $16.39 + postage

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8MM-200-300-500-600MM-Linear-Rail-Shaft-Rod-Optical-Axis-Bearing-Block-Support/273030627237?hash=item3f91e4bfa5%3Am%3Amz0X__eTNklpWyNSshJoGIw&var=572269727456

Spindle, bracket, VFD and collets $442.90

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CNC-Spindle-Motor-1-5KW-Air-Cooled-ER11-Collet-1-5KW-VFD-Driver-Speed-Controller/163168231095?hash=item25fd959eb7%3Am%3AmcrBgtEb9rwwa43ZB2j-2Fg&var=462337214959

Threaded rod....maybe $30 tops.

At those prices and I did not shop just picked the first ones I came to you could put a DRO on the lift and fence and still be hundreds in front from using a conventional router and lift because the lift effectively just cost about $50 all up and will be controllable from the top of the table.

[Spyro]

Rails $16.39 + postage

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8MM-200-300-500-600MM-Linear-Rail-Shaft-Rod-Optical-Axis-Bearing-Block-Support/273030627237?hash=item3f91e4bfa5%3Am%3Amz0X__eTNklpWyNSshJoGIw&var=572269727456

Thanks for those links.

Unrelated question, but is it possible to find such rails with a brake? I was wondering if I can use something like that for a table saw fence.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[Chris Parks]

Thanks for those links.

Unrelated question, but is it possible to find such rails with a brake? I was wondering if I can use something like that for a table saw fence.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

I haven't been able to, I wanted to use them on a BS fence but have since decided that a motor drive for the fence does not require a brake so it will be getting two stepper motor drives which will accept a dimension being keyed in. I ordinarily would not bother, after all it is only a BS but the fence on it is so poor I am determined to change it so it is going to get stepper drives. All this is possible because of the work done by MandJ on the router table I am sure you have seen in this sub forum. There is nothing preventing you using the same stuff on a TS fence if you wanted to or do something like this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pudkvHFOfk&t=378s

Mike who is building the prototype will be publishing all the stuff necessary and also the computer coding so that the table can be copied and projects like TS fences can be motorised in the same way.

[qwertyu]

Rails $16.39 + postage

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8MM-200-300-500-600MM-Linear-Rail-Shaft-Rod-Optical-Axis-Bearing-Block-Support/273030627237?hash=item3f91e4bfa5%3Am%3Amz0X__eTNklpWyNSshJoGIw&var=572269727456

Spindle, bracket, VFD and collets $442.90

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CNC-Spindle-Motor-1-5KW-Air-Cooled-ER11-Collet-1-5KW-VFD-Driver-Speed-Controller/163168231095?hash=item25fd959eb7%3Am%3AmcrBgtEb9rwwa43ZB2j-2Fg&var=462337214959

Threaded rod....maybe $30 tops.

At those prices and I did not shop just picked the first ones I came to you could put a DRO on the lift and fence and still be hundreds in front from using a conventional router and lift because the lift effectively just cost about $50 all up and will be controllable from the top of the table.

Do you have any examples of setups people have made or videos documenting it? Would be good to see examples of how it all goes together and problems which one may need to work around.

How much power should one look for in a table set up? I was under the impression that you should get as powerful as possible

[Cliff Rogers]

This one ticks all the boxes for me.
https://sydneytools.com.au/hitachi-m12ve-h1-12-7mm-2000w-variable-speed-router

Reliable brand, powerful, soft start, variable speed, constant speed control, 12mm (1/2") 65mm stroke.

[HypnoToad]

Rails $16.39 + postage

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8MM-200-300-500-600MM-Linear-Rail-Shaft-Rod-Optical-Axis-Bearing-Block-Support/273030627237?hash=item3f91e4bfa5%3Am%3Amz0X__eTNklpWyNSshJoGIw&var=572269727456

Spindle, bracket, VFD and collets $442.90

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CNC-Spindle-Motor-1-5KW-Air-Cooled-ER11-Collet-1-5KW-VFD-Driver-Speed-Controller/163168231095?hash=item25fd959eb7%3Am%3AmcrBgtEb9rwwa43ZB2j-2Fg&var=462337214959

Threaded rod....maybe $30 tops.

At those prices and I did not shop just picked the first ones I came to you could put a DRO on the lift and fence and still be hundreds in front from using a conventional router and lift because the lift effectively just cost about $50 all up and will be controllable from the top of the table.

What is the maximum router bit shank size you can use with this setup?

[Chris Parks]

The ER series colletts can be bought in any common size up to .512

ER20 series collets have a capacity of .015-.512 inches. Each ER20 collet has a range of .039 inches(1mm). ER20 collets .094 and smaller have a range of only .015 inches. The size indicated on the collet is the largest size it can hold and can be collapsed smaller within its collapse range mentioned above.

Sorry about the bold, it was a cut and paste. My spindle arrived with what I think is a complete set.

[Lappa]

The spindle Chris posted in his link uses ER11 collets so the largest bit shank would be 0.312”” or 5/16”. From what I understand, you would need a different spindle that can take ER20 collets if you want to use 1/2” shank bits. Probably looking at an extra $75-$100 for that let up. Most of the ones I searched are 2.2kW and need a larger VFD as well.

[qwertyu]

I think you're correct Lappa.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-2KW-Spindle-Motor-CNC-Air-Cooled-ER20-Collet-Chucks-2-2KW-VFD-Inverter-Bracket/163168260465?hash=item25fd961171%3Am%3Am1KilAR_OTEa3vyo7gNnDSw&var=462337251851

So this is spindle with ER20, bracket and VFD.

Is there much benefit of having so many sizes collets? Aren't router bits only available in 1/2, 3/8 and 1/4inch?

I quite like the idea of using a CNC spindle so I'll research this more.

Still dont really understand how the rails attach to the spindle bracket though.

Heres a video of someone using it in the Incra lift system

[Chris Parks]

Sorry, my error, two different links for two different purposes. If you search through this router forum there are a large number of links on this subject. Mike shows a version of using the rails here

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f20/router-table-build-212190-post2101545#post2101545 post #246

Forget the fact that he is building an electronically controlled lift, the principle remains the same and with a spindle is going to be far more simple. Two vertical rails that the spindle bracket is fastened to and the spindle raised and lowered by a threaded rod accessible from the top of the table. To give you an idea of costs, the whole electronic version will cost less than a good router with a lift in a table from CT or Timbecon so a table using a spindle and two rails will cost a whole lot less and be a way better thing especially noise wise. There is no need to use a water cooled spindle but I found one at a good price so that is what I am using to build a copy of MandJ's table. Don't worry about the multitude of collett sizes, that is just the way some of the spindles come.

The spindle kit I bought https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CNC-2-2KW-Spindle-Motor-2200W-Frequency-Inverter-VFD-Mount-ER20-Collet-Pump/282949964636?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Looking at Ebay tonight there does not appear to be a lot of suitable air cooled spindles so water cooled might be the go. I will do a 5 minute knock up of how I am going to do my vertical rails and post a picture as I am nowhere near beginning the table build. Mike who is doing the electronic version is going to put out a dummies PDF on how to build the electronics one with all the hardware needed and will supply the software to run it. I am a total electronics dunce so he needs to do it for me anyway but it is a big job and will take a little while until that is published.

[Midnight Man]

Bit late here, but for what it's worth, I've gone ahead and mounted my router table in my table saw on the right - I am using the Incra positioner on my table saw, and this allows me to utilise that fence on my router table.

The router height adjustment is an Incra metric Mast-R-Lift II: https://www.incra.com/router_system_accessories-mast-r-lift-ii.html

The router itself will be (it's not here yet) the AUK tools unit with controller: Router Control Station plus AUK 1800watt Router Motor woodworksupplies.com.au (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/p/9305500/router-control-station-plus-auk-1800watt-router-motor.html)

I then have a set of the Magnalock rings with dust extraction to suit the lift: Clean Sweep Magnalockâ„¢ Ringset 6 piece - Incra woodworksupplies.com.au (http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/p/9305607/clean-sweep-magnalock-ringset-6-piece---incra.html)

I'll be teaming this up with an eliminator chuck: The Eliminator Chuck (http://www.eliminatorchuck.com/)

Underneath the table, I will make a dust control box to house this in along the lines of this: https://incra.com/info/pivot_door_cabinet.pdf

I believe at least one other forum member has pretty much this exact setup actually in operation, so they might come by here and comment on how it is in actual use :)

EDIT: I noticed when assembling this post, there are several items on the Incra site that are no longer "exposed" in the menu system (they redesigned their site a while ago). The "Plans" section is one that you had to know it was there to find it via a search, and may prove useful for your build

[Lappa]

That’s a pretty good deal on the spindle kit Chris. Damn shame I have a 2.2kW VFD already as the costs of a spindle and collets alone aren’t much cheaper.

[Chris Parks]

The single biggest reason to use rails is so the load of the router is not held by the top deck of the table. This changes everything about the design of the top as it no longer has to resist bending and can be made to be lifted off or even different tops for different purposes if needed. There is a lift now made in Germany which tilts and slides as well, I am not sure why it slides but the tilt is easy to do using rails and that makes a lot of bits in effect at least two bits.

Watch these in order....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWImGHre5m4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj1JeXqxvu4



In the second one you can see that the router can be slid sideways and I am guessing that this is something to do with the tilting but not speaking German I can only guess.

[CgT]

In the second one you can see that the router can be slid sideways and I am guessing that this is something to do with the tilting but not speaking German I can only guess.

The sliding would actually be necessary or the table opening would have to be much larger I'd guess

[ian]

There is a lift now made in Germany which tilts and slides as well, I am not sure why it slides but the tilt is easy to do using rails and that makes a lot of bits in effect at least two bits.

Watch these in order....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWImGHre5m4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj1JeXqxvu4

In the second one you can see that the router can be slid sideways and I am guessing that this is something to do with the tilting but not speaking German I can only guess.
Chris, thanks for posting these videos.

What the Germans seem to have produced is a lift that turns a router into a shaper. Europeans use shapers for tasks where our American cousins would reach for a dado blade. Also, cutters with replaceable cutters appear to be more common in Europe than in the US or Aus.
In the first video, the sliding adjustment is being used to re-center the cutter after tilting the router. In a proper shaper, the tilt is much like that on a table saw -- just below the table -- with that router lift the tilt is well below the table so the whole router needs to be slid forwards or backwards to re-center the cutter.
If the German lift mimics a real shaper the tilt range will be something like 45 degrees back and 5 or 15 degrees forwards.

[Bohdan]

In the second one you can see that the router can be slid sideways and I am guessing that this is something to do with the tilting but not speaking German I can only guess.

When watching foreign language videos on utube switch on "subtitles" and "auto translate" with your language of choise.

The translation is not perfect but it enables you to follow (mostly) what is being said.

The router is slid sideways to centre the cutter in the hole.

[Chris Parks]

When watching foreign language videos on utube switch on "subtitles" and "auto translate" with your language of choise.

The translation is not perfect but it enables you to follow (mostly) what is being said.

The router is slid sideways to centre the cutter in the hole.

Thanks for the heads up on that Bohdan, damned confusing in places and hard work in others and I had to keep stopping and starting the video to actually make sense of what they were saying. At least I found out the price of the lift and motor, $1700AUD so I'll pass on that as good as it is.

[ian]

here's a link to an earlier (non tilting) version of the lift and motor https://www.sautershop.de/oberfraesenlift-set-ofl2.0-suhner-uak-30-fraesmotor-set-ofl2-43-s1550 749 Euro (including 19% VAT) -- about $1100 AUD

Found a link -- look like there are 3 motor options
basic lift https://www.sautershop.de/schwenkbarer-oberfraesenlift-ofl3.0-sa-ofl3.0?c=15183 599 Euro
1550 W https://www.sautershop.de/oberfraesenlift-set-ofl3.0-suhner-uak-30-fraesmotor-set-ofl3-s1550?c=15183 929 Euro
1800 W https://www.sautershop.de/oberfraesenlift-set-ofl3.0-suhner-ual-23-rf-fraesmotor-set-ofl3-s1800?c=15183 1079 Euro

[ian]

Looking at Ebay tonight there does not appear to be a lot of suitable air cooled spindles so water cooled might be the go. I will do a 5 minute knock up of how I am going to do my vertical rails and post a picture as I am nowhere near beginning the table build. Mike who is doing the electronic version is going to put out a dummies PDF on how to build the electronics one with all the hardware needed and will supply the software to run it. I am a total electronics dunce so he needs to do it for me anyway but it is a big job and will take a little while until that is published.
here are some options I believe all of them have a standard 43mm clamping collar


Kress: 530 FM, 800 FME, 1050 FME
MAFELL: FM 800, FM 1000
SUHNER: UAC 30 RF, UAD 25 RF, UAK 30 RF, UAL 23 RF

[rayintheuk]

I'm late to the thread also, but the topic of router lifts has been running for years. I never could see the point in buying a lift which, apart from only performing one simple function that already exists in most plunge routers, actually prevents many routers from functioning correctly/safely/at their full potential.

There are two router brands that are specifically suitable for inverted use, Festool and Triton. The Festool - by nature of the price - rules itself out of most hobbyists benches, but the largest Triton model is eminently suitable, having side-facing air vents (no debris will fall into the inverted motor), built-in coarse and fine winding handles for height adjustment, a safety lock on the power train when changing cutters and the real plus of above-the-table bit changing. Putting a large Triton into a router lift removes those features and abilities, plus will require a collet extension - the most dangerous and potentially damaging accessory ever invented for a router.

Save the ridiculous amount of money required for a router lift, buy a large Triton and invest the change in good-quality cutters. Goog luck with whatever you decide.

[Just George]

Ray,

You're right about the Triton and its plunge feature, this though didn't stop me buying the new Carbatec router table with router lift. It fits perfectly, and allows dead accurate raising and lowering of the bit without releasing the lock mechanism on the router. I'm glad I spent the extra money, and would encourage anyone else to do the same.

[Lappa]

Hmm? Lots of posts seem to be Carbatec endorsements.

[Chris Parks]

I don't like using a router and/or lift for two good reasons, the first is they cost so much and the second is they hang from the top and compromise the design of the table.