qwertyu 21st August 2018, 09:51 AM A friend wants a really small trolley so I drew something up in Fusion 360. I am unsure about the design in terms of wood movement and joinery. Would really like to get some critique/comments and advice+suggestions where necessary.
Here is the image and PDF of plans:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/16-phOqu9r5EajF1W9jaWHB69UVWDWWq2?usp=sharing
To be made of vic ash. legs 42x42mm rest from 19x100 stock. Friend wishes to put a 20kg laser at the top of it lol. And just random bits on the bottom shelf.
I havent drawn the castors. I figured I would use plate castors but doubt I can find anything which will fit into the 42x42mm legs. There are ones with threads - what would be the best way to attach them to the legs? or other suggestions?
The bottom shelf looks like glass in the render, but plan is to use that cheap formply at bunnings with black surface.
The legs to aprons was just going to use dominos. the bottom shelf made of 17mm ply - planned to use dominos to connect directly to the lower apron (are they called aprons?) rails.
The back legs will be taller and the back 'apron' too. The table top made of 19x100 boards. I figure I will just attach them with the z clips used for tables. The table top will just butt up against the back legs/apron - is this a problem? Should the back legs/apron rail have a rebate which the top sits in with a little space and can expand into?
Unsure about the side rails too (to stop things from rolling off the sides). Can they also be attached with dominos? Worried about the top expanding
Bohdan 21st August 2018, 10:47 AM I think that a trolley that high and that narrow on castors will be extremely unstable unless the bottom shelf is filled with some heavy ballast.
elanjacobs 21st August 2018, 11:06 AM :whs:
20kg on top of that will tip over without much effort
qwertyu 21st August 2018, 11:48 AM I think that a trolley that high and that narrow on castors will be extremely unstable unless the bottom shelf is filled with some heavy ballast.
:whs:
20kg on top of that will tip over without much effort
good point - i just made it do the dimensions he asked for without thinking. I will let him know and see if he would want it a bbit wider (and find out if the laser is actually 20kg cause that was an estimate from him)
rrich 22nd August 2018, 02:51 PM The top shelf is going to move horizontally left and right. I would guess about 4mm in total. You'll have to mount the shelf with "Z" or "∞" Infinity clips. The shelf will have to rest on cleats that are attached to the top L/R stiles.
Or just drill about 3/8 inch holes in the cleats and screws with washers from the bottom up into the top shelf underside.
qwertyu 22nd August 2018, 04:08 PM The top shelf is going to move horizontally left and right. I would guess about 4mm in total. You'll have to mount the shelf with "Z" or "∞" Infinity clips. The shelf will have to rest on cleats that are attached to the top L/R stiles.
Or just drill about 3/8 inch holes in the cleats and screws with washers from the bottom up into the top shelf underside.
The plan was to use Z clips for the top. How about the support rails? ok with just dominos?
auscab 22nd August 2018, 11:45 PM The plan was to use Z clips for the top. How about the support rails? ok with just dominos?
Dominos will hold your horizontal rails but I was wondering how well they will work with the rails so close to the inside corners of the legs. There is more room for them to work well the further out the rails go to the outside of the legs. More room for the depth of domino in the leg. best to do a full size drawing looking down on the leg and two of the rails then draw in the dominos to see it.
Your three sided gallery around the top . The back board section of that is not so standard in its approach and it looks like it presents assembly problems to me . Maybe I just haven't thought about it long enough yet . When you go to put your top on its going to butt up against that . So are you going to domino that top to the back board ? That seems hard because the back board will need to be in position fixed first. Or nail it from through the back and don't domino .
Or make the bottom of the back higher so your top slides under and can be nailed or screwed up into the bottom of the back may be better. Doing this is strong and means any movement wont show as easily with a gap where dust will get caught up . The other thing you could do there is glue a strip to the back for the top to rest on. That will support it better but still isn't the best option .
Edit. A more standard approach to the gallery part would be to finish the legs same height as the front ones, then the three sided gallery is normally dovetailed at its back to side joints , or skew nail and glue it carefully if a fast build is the way to go , you do that with the help of drilling the nail holes for accuracy . It’s then screwed to the top through from the under side before the top is fitted .
The wheels for these sort of trolleys are called Tea trolley castors
https://www.ebay.com.au/i/382048168967?chn=ps
The large wheel is a must for ease of use . Much better than a smaller wheel at getting around. There are a few suppliers of them . Not sure if their cheaper than this ebay listing though. You'd probably get 4 from bunnings that are smaller but would cost the price of one of those $21 ones.
I hope that's of some help.
Rob
Fumbler 23rd August 2018, 03:59 AM There are also these
https://www.bunnings.com.au/move-it-50mm-40kg-grey-swivel-right-angle-bracket-castor-2-pack_p3940344
and these, with brakes
https://www.bunnings.com.au/move-it-50mm-40kg-swivel-brake-angle-plate-castor-pack-2_p3940345
qwertyu 23rd August 2018, 10:59 AM Thanks everyone.
it is actually 13kg. Still too narrow?
Just an update on the weight - he overestimated the weight
Dominos will hold your horizontal rails but I was wondering how well they will work with the rails so close to the inside corners of the legs. There is more room for them to work well the further out the rails go to the outside of the legs. More room for the depth of domino in the leg. best to do a full size drawing looking down on the leg and two of the rails then draw in the dominos to see it.
Your three sided gallery around the top . The back board section of that is not so standard in its approach and it looks like it presents assembly problems to me . Maybe I just haven't thought about it long enough yet . When you go to put your top on its going to butt up against that . So are you going to domino that top to the back board ? That seems hard because the back board will need to be in position fixed first. Or nail it from through the back and don't domino .
Or make the bottom of the back higher so your top slides under and can be nailed or screwed up into the bottom of the back may be better. Doing this is strong and means any movement wont show as easily with a gap where dust will get caught up . The other thing you could do there is glue a strip to the back for the top to rest on. That will support it better but still isn't the best option .
Edit. A more standard approach to the gallery part would be to finish the legs same height as the front ones, then the three sided gallery is normally dovetailed at its back to side joints , or skew nail and glue it carefully if a fast build is the way to go , you do that with the help of drilling the nail holes for accuracy . It’s then screwed to the top through from the under side before the top is fitted .
The wheels for these sort of trolleys are called Tea trolley castors
https://www.ebay.com.au/i/382048168967?chn=ps
The large wheel is a must for ease of use . Much better than a smaller wheel at getting around. There are a few suppliers of them . Not sure if their cheaper than this ebay listing though. You'd probably get 4 from bunnings that are smaller but would cost the price of one of those $21 ones.
I hope that's of some help.
Rob
Thanks everyone.
Just an update on the weight - he overestimated the weight it is actually 13kg. Still too narrow?
The reason why I put the horizontal rails close to the inside is because I thought it would be easier to do the shelf lol
If the rails are in the middle, how would you do the self? Just cut out the corners where the legs are?
I was only going to butt the top to the back without any dominos or anything - but I really didnt know what was the best way to do it and wanted to hear suggestions on how to construct this.
If I'm screwing the gallery to the top from the bottom, is there an issue with the top expanding?
Thanks for the suggestions on the wheels guys, I'll look into them.
TBH I'm tempted to tell him to get someone to contruct the frame out of steel and have timber top/shelf for looks - I think it will be more sturdy
auscab 23rd August 2018, 11:56 AM If the rails are in the middle, how would you do the self? Just cut out the corners where the legs are?
If I'm screwing the gallery to the top from the bottom, is there an issue with the top expanding?
Yeah , just cut the corners .
Screws will give enough for top movement . And that’s such a narrow width as well there should be no problems if the timber is dry . Just don’t glue it to the bottom of the back board and it and it’ll be good .
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