Australian timber ranked by density - is their a list online?

[Neil T]

Hi Folks,

Just wondering if anyone is aware of an online resource that ranks Australian timbers by air dry density?

Cheers,

Neil

[Robson Valley]

Look at the Wood Data Base for Janka hardness.
If there's nothing, contact CSIRO Forest Products Division (if it still exists.)
They had a useful data base back in the 1970's. I used it.
I find it hard to believe for all the growth variations which appear in trees.

The Wood Database (http://www.wood-database.com/)

[Euge]

Hi Folks,

Just wondering if anyone is aware of an online resource that ranks Australian timbers by air dry density?

Cheers,

Neil

Hi Neil,

Many Australian books and publications list ADD (air dried density ) of Australian Timbers .... but on-line? The Wood Database as RB has mentioned has some data. If I can help with some just ask. Over the years I have handled cut and measured and exchanged info on many dense timbers.

One of our Members (Runge) specializes in super dense timbers including the Aust species and has made up his own list. Perhaps you could contact him.

Euge

[Neil T]

Thanks to you both for taking the time to comment. I use The Australian Timber Buyers Guide (hard copy) and https://www.woodsolutions.com.au/ for ascertaining ADD for a given species, but in this case I am researching local hardwoods for cabinetry that fit a certain criteria, predominantly around weight/ADD.

So a list of native timbers in order of ADD seems a good starting point for me. Perhaps it's time to create a spreadsheet and start logging my own data from existing references in the format I am chasing, but I'm sure it's been done before.

Suggestions are of course welcome for any native timbers with a low-to-mid level ADD. Straight grained would be a bonus, some flashy figure also welcome but not mandatory.

Many thanks!

[ian]

Thanks to you both for taking the time to comment. I use The Australian Timber Buyers Guide (hard copy) and https://www.woodsolutions.com.au/ for ascertaining ADD for a given species, but in this case I am researching local hardwoods for cabinetry that fit a certain criteria, predominantly around weight/ADD.
Hi Neil
I'm not sure what you are attempting to plot, but as I understand it, weight and ADD (average dry density) are essentially the same thing.

weight would be expressed as kg per cubic metre while ADD would be expressed as kg/cu.m divided by 1000, giving a number between about .15 (balsa wood) and 1.26 (Lignum Vitae)

[skot]

I just looked at the The Wood Database and was thinking that filtering within a certain Janka Hardness range might give a list of compatible timbers to use for endgrain cutting boards.

[ian]

I just looked at the The Wood Database and was thinking that filtering within a certain Janka Hardness range might give a list of compatible timbers to use for endgrain cutting boards.
I think Janka hardness is usually expressed in terms of face grain hardness. Does anyone know for sure?

[GraemeCook]

I think Janka hardness is usually expressed in terms of face grain hardness. Does anyone know for sure?


Hi Ian

Easiest just to quote Keith Bootle, Wood in Australia, p.56.

"Janka hardness figures for many species are listed ..... The figures given are for side grain and represent an average for tangential and radial surfaces. End-grain hardness is generally somewhat higher ....."

Have no idea if other sources follow Bootle's model.


Cheers

Graeme

[ian]

Thanks Graeme, so as I thought "comparable" Janka values would be for side grain, not end grain.

[GraemeCook]

Hi Folks,

Just wondering if anyone is aware of an online resource that ranks Australian timbers by air dry density?

Cheers,

Neil


Hi Neil

There are at least two or three lists of Oz timber hardness rankings on this Forum - so do some searching.

You do not say what you want the list for. If you intend using some of the timbers then there may be a few issues:

many timbers may be difficult to source,
properties of commercially available timbers may vary significantly from the published figures.


The latter point is particularly insidious. Published timber tests were usually done on old growth timber. Old growth timber is usually denser and harder than timber from regrowth trees of the same species, and both may be substantially denser and harder than plantation timber from the same species.

This can be illustrated by reference to the hardness of Tasmanian Blue Gum (Eucalyptus globulus)

Old growth - janka = 12,
Regrowth - Janka = 10.5, and
Plantation - janka = 6.5.


The density and the various strength modulii also vary significantly/substantially.

This, from my perspective, is quite a vexatious issue as many vendors of plantation timber, when asked about the properties of a species, will refer you to WoodDataBase and/or to Bootles, which detail tests on old growth timbers.


Cheers

Graeme

[Neil T]

Thanks again to all for comments and advice, all well received at this end.

[Chrism3]

this may be of use:
https://www.alansfactoryoutlet.com/75-types-of-wood-ranked-by-janka-hardness-and-how-they-are-used

[Mobyturns]

You could try sourcing a copy of this research- https://www.cabi.org/fc/abstract/19400604904 - The density of Australian timbers. 2. Air-dry and basic density data for 172 timbers.

Also found this -

https://publications.csiro.au/rpr/download?pid=legacy:1521&dsid=DS1

[BobL]

I just looked at the The Wood Database and was thinking that filtering within a certain Janka Hardness range might give a list of compatible timbers to use for endgrain cutting boards.

I reckon using hardness rating tables could be a bit of a waste of time.
About the only way to achieve a close hardness equivalence would require measuring the hardness of the actual pieces planned for use in a cutting board.

The hardness values given in tables are usually some kind of average across a number of measurements from a range of trees.

BUT

This does not mean that the hardness of a given piece of timber will actually be that hard or soft.
Even ignoring eg mould and fungal affected timber and heartwood, the variability of hardness of clear grained timber from a given tree can be +/- ~10%.
The variability of hardness of clear grained timber from different trees of the same species can be as much as +/- ~20%.

Hence, even if the given hardness of 2 species are supposedly the same, there could be a difference in hardness of as much ~40% between two any actual samples.

[Mobyturns]

Neil, are you after ADD or Janka Hardness?? From post #1 & #4 I read that you are after ADD.

[Neil T]

Neil, are you after ADD or Janka Hardness?? From post #1 & #4 I read that you are after ADD.

I am chasing ADD in as far as it is indicative of weight, but the Janka figures are also relevant.

Thanks.