Help with Tearout

[pach]

Hi,

I am making some table legs and unfortunately one has severe tearout. I have run out of material so looking for assistance on how to "make it better" than what it currently is.

The board is 135mm wide, and its a close up shot but the tearout is quite severe so looking for ways to calm it down for finish.

Any ideas ?

448527

[derekcohen]

More information needed: what is the timber and what are you planing with? If a hand plane, what was it?

That looks ugly, as if you were planing into the grain with a dull blade. It appears like sections of reversing grain.

If using a hand plane, a high cutting angle (60+ degrees) might help if planing with the grain. Be certain that you are planing with the grain. A high cutting angle can be created with a 15 degree back bevel on a Stanley #4 (or similar), or a plane with a high bed (such as a HNT Gordon smoother).

The alternative - and my preference by far - is to use a Stanley #3 or 4 and set the chipbreaker close (that is, about 0.4mm from the back of the blade).

Either way, you need a sharp blade.

Alternatives to a hand plane are, firstly, a cabinet (card) scraper or, secondly, sanding.

Regards from Perth

Derek

If

[pach]

Thanks Derek. This is straight out of a thicknesser and haven’t hit the hand tools yet as I needed some advice first.

The timber is New Guinea rosewood.

I do have a LN Low angle smoother. Will that be ok to try?


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[derekcohen]

The LN Smoother could do the job. The factory blade comes with a 25 degree primary bevel. You need to add a 50 degree secondary bevel (to create a 62 degree cutting angle).

Be sure that you are planing with the grain, and only work the areas with tear out (as I suspect that the grain in these sections is the opposite to the other areas).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[cava]

I, like others, have had this issue and the best way that I have found to eradicate it is with a drum sander after putting the timber through a thicknesser.

It's not for everyone, and I am fortunate that the local Mens Shed has one which I use. :D

[Kuffy]

When thicknessing, did you send the board through in the opposite direction at all? A general rule I have always told lackeys, apprentices and trainees is that if it comes out like crap, spin it and try again, and make sure you do this before you hit the final dimension! The easy answer to this problem is "just sand it". It doesn't take much to remove. A card scraper will make quick work of it too. A hand plane makes the quickest work of it, but it can also make the quickest disaster because at the moment your tear out is only about 0.5mm deep :D

[auscab]

I finish all my flat legs by hand with planes and scraper then sand paper.
I like my Stanley 3 and 4 size for this sort of thing and I have more than three of each with varying curve to the cutting edge.
Some have matching curve to the cap iron so I can get real close to the cutting edge with that .
Some are a very slight curve with a more pronounced curve at the corners bringing them back a touch, with matching lever caps.

With a sharp plane and a rub of wax on the sole I go down one way and come back the other for the tear out , if its bad then I may have to traverse a little or bring down surrounding wood to get to the tear out .
Then a sharp cabinet scraper to finish it off.
After that a fine sand paper like a 240 grit is ok . You can go finer after that if you want .

Rob

[GraemeCook]

The LN Smoother could do the job. The factory blade comes with a 25 degree primary bevel. You need to add a 50 degree secondary bevel (to create a 62 degree cutting angle).

Be sure that you are planing with the grain, and only work the areas with tear out (as I suspect that the grain in these sections is the opposite to the other areas).

Regards from Perth

Derek


Hi Pacha

Hope Derek does't mind me adding to his comments.

That LN bevel up is a lovely plane. The blade must be really sharp sharp. Just think about it; if its not cutting then it must be tearing, and that's what you are trying to avoid. And NG Roewood contains silica which blunts blades fairly quickly, so you must keep the blade sharp.

Secondly, take very fine shavings - often call gossamer. I suspect that your buzzer may have been set a little too aggressive.


Cheers

Graeme

[derekcohen]

Good points Graeme. This is why we, in Oz, have taken to A2, M2 (HSS), and PM-V11 steel for our plane blades when using these abrasive timbers. They just hold a sharp edge longer than O1. That sharp edge is critical .. and balanced, as you note, with a shallow cut. Shallow (gossamer) shavings are a way of dealing with tearout (just not practical for more than final smoothing).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Luke Maddux]

I'd try:

A lighter (less deep) cut
New, sharper blades
Sending it through in the other direction

I'd be surprised if some permutation of the three doesn't resolve that. I've never seen tearout that bad that couldn't be mitigated to some degree.

[ian]

Hi,

I am making some table legs and unfortunately one has severe tearout. I have run out of material so looking for assistance on how to "make it better" than what it currently is.

The board is 135mm wide, and its a close up shot but the tearout is quite severe so looking for ways to calm it down for finish.

Any ideas ?

448527can the leg be orientated so that the tear-out is out of sight?
that is perhaps the most straight forward solution -- hide the problem.

So if the face with the tear-out can be orientated so it is out of sight, fill the area with wood filler and finish the leg as you would normally.

[pach]

Hi guys,

Thank you all for your responses.

@Kuffy - Yes I tried putting it through the other way but had similar issue on the other sections.

I will get back to it this weekend but will definitely giving the smoother a sharpen and see how I go with light passes.

I hope that gets me close enough!

Will provide an update over the weekend when i have had another crack at it.

[tonzeyd]

+1 to sending it through the other direction.

[derekcohen]

Negative to sending it through the other direction - it is evident from comments already made that doing so simply results in tearout in other areas. This indicates that the grain in the section with the prominent tearout is running in a different direction. It is best to work the board with hand planes, and do so taking note that the tearout sections need to be done in a different direction with a suitable high cutting angle.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ian]

Negative to sending it through the other direction - it is evident from comments already made that doing so simply results in tearout in other areas. This indicates that the grain in the section with the prominent tearout is running in a different direction. It is best to work the board with hand planes, and do so taking note that the tearout sections need to be done in a different direction with a suitable high cutting angle.
even better if the board can be orientated so that the tear-out prone section is out of sight

[justonething]

I'd say sanding or scraping is a better bet than planing.

[pach]

Ok, so I spent a good amount of time sharpening the blade and putting a 50degree secondary bevel. It worked a treat thanks@DerekCohen.

Question now is what is the downside of leaving the 50 degree secondary bevel on my LN smoother?

[derekcohen]

Pach, I would leave the 50 degree bevel on there permanently. After all, it is a smoother.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[GraemeCook]

Ok, so I spent a good amount of time sharpening the blade and putting a 50degree secondary bevel. It worked a treat thanks@DerekCohen.

Question now is what is the downside of leaving the 50 degree secondary bevel on my LN smoother?


Hi Pach

The downside of having a steeper pitch on your plane blade is that it takes marginally more effort to push the plane compared to one with a shallower pitch. This is quickly offset by the superior, smoother surfaces achieved in the harder, contankerous Australian hardwoods.

By way of reference, the doyen of Australian plane making, Terry Gordon, actually uses a pitch of 60° on his smoothers. The are designed specifically for Oz hardwoods.
https://hntgordon.com.au/collections/bench-planes/products/smoothing-plane

Suggest that you follow Derek's advice.


Cheers

Graeme

[pach]

Great news. I will leave it at that. Thanks for the advise, much appreciated.