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88rob88
16th Mar 2019, 11:07 AM
I recently acquired a Woodfast lathe thatís date stamped 1964. Im having trouble identifying the thread on the head stock. Does anyone know what it is?
Thanks!

Paul39
16th Mar 2019, 11:37 AM
Most likely Imperial thread. Use a rule to get threads per inch. Wrap a piece of paper around the threads and mark, lay flat and measure between marks, that gives you circumference. Divide by 3.1416 to get diameter. It will likely be 12 TPI X 1 inch, sometimes 8 TPI X 1 inch. Usually expressed 1 X 12 or 1 X 8.

To be sure take your calculations to an engineers shop and buy a nut of that size and try it on the spindle. The nut can be used to make a sanding disk or faceplate.

NeilS
16th Mar 2019, 12:23 PM
Ring Graham or Steveat Woodworking Solutions and they will tell you.

403 Forbidden (http://www.woodworkingsolutions.com.au/contact)



Sent from my ZTE T84 using Tapatalk

NeilS
16th Mar 2019, 12:29 PM
That contact page is not Forbidden, but if anxious about clicking on that link, here is their phone number.... (08) 8241 2205

Ring early in the day and before abt. 3pm.

Sent from my ZTE T84 using Tapatalk

Lyle
16th Mar 2019, 12:54 PM
My old woodfast made in Aust was 1 inch 10tpi.
Lyle

China
16th Mar 2019, 02:30 PM
As said above 99% 1" 10 tpi

NCArcher
16th Mar 2019, 03:52 PM
I have two of a very similar vintage. 1", 10 tpi.

powderpost
16th Mar 2019, 10:57 PM
It will be 1" x 10 tpi.

Jim

88rob88
16th Mar 2019, 11:25 PM
It will be 1" x 10 tpi.

Jim

Ive tried that... would not thread on.
I took the lathe to my local nuts and bolt shop today and they suggested it was an ďAjaxĒ thread and said it would expensive and difficult to get a nut. Something about a tapered thread. I did not believe it, so posted here. I wonder if the thread is just damaged...preventing the 1Ē 10 from starting. Iíll try a die.

Thanks everyone!

88rob88
17th Mar 2019, 02:23 AM
Can someone with an older Woodfast take a close up picture of the indexing pin. Mines missing and Iím guessing Iíll have to make a new one....

Ironwood
17th Mar 2019, 06:48 AM
Ive tried that... would not thread on.
I took the lathe to my local nuts and bolt shop today and they suggested it was an “Ajax” thread and said it would expensive and difficult to get a nut. Something about a tapered thread. I did not believe it, so posted here. I wonder if the thread is just damaged...preventing the 1” 10 from starting. I’ll try a die.

Thanks everyone!
That doesn’t sound right.
Dont use a die on it until you know what thread you are dealing with. Does the thread look damaged ?
Did they measure your thread with a thread pitch gauge ? a shop like that would surely have one.
Can you take some photos of the thread. Try and get one with an imperial steel rule along the top of the threads so we can try and see what pitch it is. Do you have a vernier calliper to measure the diameter?

Ironwood
17th Mar 2019, 08:43 AM
Been thinking about this a bit more. As far as I know, Ajax is a company that manufactures nuts and bolts of all descriptions, it is not a specific thread type.
Are you sure they didn’t say Acme ? It is highly unlikely that the spindle was manufactured with an Acme thread, but if someone has screwed something on with a different thread, they may have butchered it enough to resemble an Acme thread.
Unless you can post some photos, it’s a waste of time speculating any further. We need photos.

88rob88
17th Mar 2019, 05:02 PM
I actually work for the specialist Nuts and Bolts supply shop and have not been able to identify the thread. Nor did a more experienced employee. Iíll take it back and get the most experienced guy take a look. Iíll also get a 1Ē 10tpii nut and cut it in half and see if it meshes. I wonít use a die until the thread is confirmed. It may just be a problem with the first couple of threads on the head stock...

88rob88
17th Mar 2019, 05:17 PM
Oh....the guy suggested that it was a tapered thread. And he insisted that was called Ajax. It sounds as tho he knows nothing. I’ll let another guy take a look. Meanwhile I’ll post some pics

88rob88
17th Mar 2019, 05:22 PM
Should be pictures of the thread....

Ironwood
17th Mar 2019, 06:50 PM
OK, so it looks like 1x10 to me. The scale on the top edge of the ruler is 1/20ths, so if you put that over your thread, every second line should line up with each thread pitch exactly for 10 tpi.

I really don’t think it’s a tapered thread, but you can check with your calipers, take a reading at each end of the thread and see if it is the same or not.

Were you saying you tried a 1x10 nut, and it wouldn’t screw on ?

artful bodger
17th Mar 2019, 07:00 PM
Mine is a 1 inch x 10 thread. However I have bought 1 inch by 10 nuts for it before to make special chucks and they do not quite fit. If you want to borrow a face plate to settle the matter you are welcome to lend it. I'm about 1/2 hour south of Hobart.

powderpost
17th Mar 2019, 08:46 PM
OK, so it looks like 1x10 to me. The scale on the top edge of the ruler is 1/20ths, so if you put that over your thread, every second line should line up with each thread pitch exactly for 10 tpi.

I really donít think itís a tapered thread, but you can check with your calipers, take a reading at each end of the thread and see if it is the same or not.

Were you saying you tried a 1x10 nut, and it wouldnít screw on ?

Agreed
,I have woodfast catalogues from way back, and they listed the nose threads as 1" x 10tpi. None of the Woodfast lathes had "tapered" threads.


Jim

Wimmera Jack
17th Mar 2019, 09:17 PM
Agree with Jim. I have the same lathe. Standard 1"x 10 tpi. It is not tapered.
You should have a left hand thread on the other end of the spindle to take a face plate for turning stuff that is too big for the bed gap.

John.

China
17th Mar 2019, 09:27 PM
I have owned three of that model lathe over the years, all 1" 10 tpi none of them had a tapered thread, the guy at the bolt shop needs to get a new job

88rob88
17th Mar 2019, 09:47 PM
No, 1Ē 10 tpi nut would not thread on. I checked with the rule and yes every second 20th lays on the peak of a thread.
so itís a 1Ē 10 tpi. It must be..... Iíll get another nut from work and check again. Headstock thread doesnít look damaged...

88rob88
17th Mar 2019, 09:50 PM
Thanks! If things get much more frustrating I might take you up on it. Kingston?

Old Croc
17th Mar 2019, 10:42 PM
No, 1” 10 tpi nut would not thread on. I checked with the rule and yes every second 20th lays on the peak of a thread.
so it’s a 1” 10 tpi. It must be..... I’ll get another nut from work and check again. Headstock thread doesn’t look damaged...
Thinking about this, 1" 10 TPI nuts would not be that common anymore so I wonder if he inadvertently tried a metric or UNC or UNF nut. My charts indicate it should be BSF.
Let us know how you get on.
Rgds,
Crocy.

Ironwood
18th Mar 2019, 07:01 AM
Thinking about this, 1" 10 TPI nuts would not be that common anymore so I wonder if he inadvertently tried a metric or UNC or UNF nut. My charts indicate it should be BSF.
Let us know how you get on.
Rgds,
Crocy.
Ahhh, if it’s a BSF thread, the thread angle will be 55 degrees. Most modern threads use 60 degrees. So if that’s the case, you will specifically need to get a 1” BSF nut to screw on there.
I don’t have my thread charts handy , but will get them and check this afternoon.

artful bodger
18th Mar 2019, 08:34 AM
[QUOTE=88rob88;2131095]Thanks! If things get much more frustrating I might take you up on it. Kingston?[/QUOT


Kaoota. I do venture up to town most weeks and would be happy to bring a face plate and chuck to see they fit. Judging by all the replies it is a pretty certain thing.

Paul39
18th Mar 2019, 12:17 PM
88rob88,

I think it is settled that you have a 1 X 10 spindle thread. I expect you are going to buy a chuck. You might go to where you will be buying the chuck and get a 1 X 10 adapter to fit the proposed chuck. There are several classes of fit for nuts and bolts, spindle threads are made to tighter tolerances, as are the parts that screw on to them.

Before trying the adapter on the spindle, lightly oil and scrub the threads, the unthreaded part behind the threads, and the flat at the back with a wire brush. Wipe off and lightly oil and try the adapter. If it catches or is hard to thread, look for any raised divots on the thread and file off. You could also use 120 grit paper wrapped around a table knife.

The threads only hold the chuck or faceplate on the spindle. The unthreaded part behind the threads and the flat behind that are what make the chuck or faceplate run true, and return to the same place when screwed on. These areas are called the register. Check those for any bumps and smooth. I like to run the lathe at the slowest speed and do the unthreaded part by lightly holding a strip of 120 grit on it under tension until it is shiny. The flat I do by running and holding a flat stick wrapped with 120 grit against it.

Any dirt or bump on the back flat will make the faceplate or chuck wobble.

88rob88
18th Mar 2019, 06:13 PM
More light

88rob88
18th Mar 2019, 06:17 PM
88rob88,

I think it is settled that you have a 1 X 10 spindle thread. Etc.

thanks for the advice, I shall do exactly as you say!

Treecycle
18th Mar 2019, 09:55 PM
So can we assume that is a 1" BSF nut?

Acco
18th Mar 2019, 10:17 PM
Going by the damage to the start of the thread, Iím not surprised that you havenít been successful in getting a nut to fit.

The bit Iíve highlighted in yellow inside the red outline needs to be gently filed back and youíll also need to file the edge of the nicks out from the other bit Iíve circled as well.

451000

88rob88
18th Mar 2019, 11:48 PM
Indeed it was. Once again I could not get it started so I cut it in half to confirm either way. The mystery has been solved.

Paul39
19th Mar 2019, 01:54 PM
Indeed it was. Once again I could not get it started so I cut it in half to confirm either way. The mystery has been solved.

If the nut threads conform to the spindle thread, you have a tool to repair the damaged thread. Lock the spindle by putting a couple loops of rope around the pulley, tying that off and then winding a bunch between the hand wheel and headstock. Oil the spindle thread and put the halves of the nut on the spindle, grab the half nuts with big arc joint pliers and squeeze hard and unscrew. Depending on the relative hardness of the nut and spindle you might scrape off a little of the bumps. If so, repeat until the nut easily unscrews. Turn the half nuts around so you get fresh sharpish edges. If this does not remove any metal from the spindle, you should at least get the high places shiny, which you can carefully file or sand off.

Once the half nuts, or better a intact nut, being sure you have the right pitch and thread shape, goes all the way on and off, you may use a die to carefully clean up the threads. If you do not have access to a die, wet the spindle threads and put a paste of abrasive household cleaner, valve grinding compound, or abrasive hand cleaner on the threads and run the nut back and forth a few times. Clean off the grit from the spindle and nut, oil up and try. If it runs on and off without being catchy, you are done. METICULOUSLY clean all the grit off the spindle and lightly oil.

BigBloke
22nd Mar 2019, 01:02 AM
Hi,
I can tell you that there certainly is such thing as an Ajax thread and many years ago a lot of tools & machinery used it. Unfortunately I can't tell you much more as my memory left me years ago and it's 40 years since I was a machine setter, I just remember having to buy an ajax thread adapter for a metal lathe I had.

BTW. The ajax thread as far as I know has nothing to do with Ajax Fasteners, the Aussie nut & bolt company.

Paul39
22nd Mar 2019, 11:10 AM
As I have more time than good sense, I kept looking for Ajax threads. Machinery's Handbook 1978 20th edition has nothing, Google search turns up two Ajax bearing materials. A question on Practical Machinist Antique Machinery and History brings up the question of could it be Acme Thread, and a Hercules Ajax Lathe:

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f26/226101d1524019063-who-hercules-lathes-b98956fe28f7c4ada14b995807952b88.jpg

A search for Ajax Lathes finds this: https://www.ajax-mach.co.uk/ Tony's Lathes UK has nothing.

Old Croc
22nd Mar 2019, 11:35 PM
I also did a search and while I am not convinced that the Ajax thread did not exist, I can't find any reference to it.
This is my go to site, but it does not have every thread, but most of them.
https://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/index.html
Rgds,
Crocy.

BigBloke
23rd Mar 2019, 05:14 PM
A quick google produced this reference. It's not very useful but certainly indicates the existance of the thread.

https://www.upsidebuilding.com.au/ezytool-ajax-thread-adaptor-x-2

BigBloke
23rd Mar 2019, 05:17 PM
I'm 'reasonably' conifident that it was pre-metric.

Ironwood
23rd Mar 2019, 07:24 PM
A quick google produced this reference. It's not very useful but certainly indicates the existance of the thread.

https://www.upsidebuilding.com.au/ezytool-ajax-thread-adaptor-x-2

Be nearly worth buying one to see what it looks like.
I would like to see the specifications of this thread.