CA glue finish

[brainstrust]

I see a CA glue finish is popular amongst pen turners. Is there something else as durable though?
I find I get a much nicer richer finish from a carnuaba wax finish but will this last?
CA glue starts nice for me then the more I apply the duller it gets especially once an accelerator is used.

[Gabriel]

Hey mate,
I have seen a few blokes use 'rustins plastic coating' as a finish (sawdust maker and mkypenturner from memory) and they swear by it. I haven't used it but have bought some to try one day.

What ca are you using? Generally speaking, a good quality CA (not the $2 packs) and a hint of accelerator come up a treat with a little practise. Do you micromesh or polish after you have applied your CA?
I recommend Dave from timberbits' video on CA finish (YouTube). It is the method I started with and have only modified slightly over the years.

If you're getting a full effect after using accelerator, I may suggest you could be using to much. I only spray a split second after each coat, and then give it 30 sec to cure.
I use mercury flex ca (perfect pens and pencils) these days and get great results.

Hope these hints from my experience help - happy to keep answering questions if I can...

Cheers
Gab

[brainstrust]

I definitely use a cheaper CA glue, Hobby KIng home brand sort of thing.
I do try to use very little accelerator but I'm sure its still too much.
I don't micromesh ca but I do sometimes use that plastic polish.

I think i'll upgrade my ca and give that mercury a go and the accelerator.
Thats another thing I dont do is wait that 30 seconds, probably half that!

I'm going to watch that youtube clip!!

Thanks heaps

[Ironwood]

When I first started using CA, I had a lot of trouble getting it right.
I wont mention brands here, except what I am using now.
I tried various brands and for a while settled on one from one of the pen kit suppliers, I could get a decent finish if there was no humidity in the air. As a result, I did nearly all my wooden pens in the cooler months, as you can imagine that’s not real practical when you are selling pens.
After some research, I started using Bob Smith Industries “Gold “ , the thin one works best for me. The added benefit is its odourless, with this stuff I can use it all year round, even when there’s water dripping off the shed walls. This stuff is relatively expensive compared to other brands, but worth every cent to me.
I use my activator differently to most. I use a Loctite spraycan 7471.
I use craft foam sheet for an applicator, cut into about 18mm wide strips, this stuff is good because it doesn’t soak up any of the valuable CA, it all goes on the pen.
The first coat, I put 2 drops on the end of the foam strip, wipe it back and forth on the blank to get a full coverage and smooth it out , lathe speed is around 150 rpm. With a bit of practice you get a feel for when the CA starts to go off, there is a slight increase in the drag on the foam strip. Stop now, or the finish will go rough.
I wait about a minute for the CA to harden enough, now I turn the lathe back on, give the blank a quick spray with activator, like a one second burst from about 400mm away, I have the extractor going at all times. Quickly get the foam with 2 more drops on it and repeat , get ready for the drag on the foam, it’s important to stop then or you will get a rough finish. I repeat the coats with the same procedure until I have enough thickness, measured with calipers, I aim for 0.1mm oversize. This usually takes me about 8 coats.
So as you see, my process differs, in that I am not activating the coat that I have just applied, I am using the activator to set off the coat I am about to apply.

When this is working correctly, I get a very slight orange peel finish, it’s just enough to make the finish look a bit dull. I use 400 wet an dry paper to take the finish down flat and almost the finished size I want, then I quickly go up with a few higher grits to 1500 wet and dry, then onto the buff, results in a beautiful crystal clear glossy finish.
Forgot to mention, after my final coat, I let it sit for 24 hours, or more if you can wait, before sanding and polishing. The Ca gets harder when properly cured and you get a better shine, and any deeper sections of CA have had time to cure properly, prevents those little sunken spots from appearing in your finish after a few days where the CA was a bit thicker.
Takes me at least 2 days to do a CA finish, but the results are worth it.
Everyone has a different way to do CA, but this way works for me and I get good results every time.

[brainstrust]

Gab, just ordered some of that mercury flex, looking forward to giving it a go!

[brainstrust]

and its just arrived in the post :2tsup:

[Gabriel]

Sorry.... I missed this thread for a bit...

That's great news and I hope you have as much success with it that I do

[RSD]

Adding to an old thread rather than starting a new one. When using CA glue to finish a pen - do you apply an oil stain to the timber first or just CA glue straight onto the bare timber?

[Ironwood]

In my opinion, CA should go onto bare wood. I have heard of some using boiled linseed oil first, but I don’t think it’s a good thing.
There are people putting dyes on the timber, but I think you’ll find most people prefer to see natural timber.
In Australia we have enough variety of beautiful timbers that I don’t think you need to change the looks of any, just choose a different timber to suit the look you are after.

[woodPixel]

I wrote this a little time back - it still follows my thoughts.

ca glue as a high finish on pens (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f69/ca-glue-finish-pens-216335-post2041974#post2041974)


People over think it. Its really simple.

I've done many pens. Not one failure.

After all the years they are still good.

[RSD]

I wrote this a little time back - it still follows my thoughts.

ca glue as a high finish on pens (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f69/ca-glue-finish-pens-216335-post2041974#post2041974)


People over think it. Its really simple.

I've done many pens. Not one failure.

After all the years they are still good.
Cheers for that - simple is good!

Where do you recommend getting BSI and Hafale glues?

[woodPixel]

BSI is sold at most modelling shops, especially those that do aircraft. It seems to be a favourite.

Hafele I buy direct, simply as I've an account there. They are an outstanding company.

The BSI is an excellent glue. A big bottle will do a zillion pens :)

[markharrison]

Cheers for that - simple is good!

Where do you recommend getting BSI and Hafale glues?

Bob Smith Industries glues can be bought from Amazon. Hafele have an online presence in Australia with local fulfilment. I assume they sell to retail customers. I've never tried.

Has anyone tried the Fastcap brands for a CA finish?

[RSD]

I've been able to get the CA glues, but not any accelorator (Amazon was out of stock). Any thoughts on how long to leave it between coats if not using the accelorator?

[woodPixel]

There is a video by Timberbits where he used steam to do the job. I'll find it and post it here.

As for accelerator, the one by Hafele is called Aktivator.

https://www.hafele.com.au/en/products/tools-consumables/sealants-adhesives/adhesives/673a48fd66215bb2af1741d6e80ce452/
(https://www.hafele.com.au/en/products/tools-consumables/sealants-adhesives/adhesives/673a48fd66215bb2af1741d6e80ce452/)

Try a search for 2P-10 or this stuff https://www.timbecon.com.au/fastcap-2p-10-glue-activator and/or https://swiftsupplies.com.au/weicon-contact-adhesive-activator-spray-150ml-cans

Its all pretty much the same stuff.




https://youtu.be/-l6lz6af62I

[brainstrust]

BSI is sold at most modelling shops, especially those that do aircraft. It seems to be a favourite.

Hafele I buy direct, simply as I've an account there. They are an outstanding company.

The BSI is an excellent glue. A big bottle will do a zillion pens :)


Is BSI the manufacturer of the glue? There seems to be a few companies putting their name on the same bottles. Are these just the same glue?
If you happen to know!!!!:?

[markharrison]

I've been able to get the CA glues, but not any accelorator (Amazon was out of stock). Any thoughts on how long to leave it between coats if not using the accelorator?

Gary Pye has everything in stock. It is labelled with his brand, but it is made by BSI. I know this because I ordered some yesterday, and received it today.

[woodPixel]

Is BSI the manufacturer of the glue? There seems to be a few companies putting their name on the same bottles. Are these just the same glue?
If you happen to know!!!!:?

Sorry, I know nothing of these things. I only really care about the chemistry and the "what" of it.

The things that I look for are clarity, longevity and availability. I've used BSI for a while. While it can be expensive, it goes a bloody long way. I use thin CA for the first 3 coats, to get it "wicked" into all the capillaries and gaps, then medium or thick (whatever is at hand) to rapidly build a good coating.

I only made the recommendations I did as they were easily available from the local hobby store PLUS it worked exactly as I claimed. :) :)

CA is CA is CA. Its a simple chemical. The hard part, mostly, is getting a bottle that's a decent size! :)


The first one to three coats with thin CA are super important as they give the timber the colour, strength and adheres everything properly. After that its just slapped on to build volume. The first sanding process very quickly removes any hills. It is ppeerrffeecctt after a few seconds of sanding. No need to grind it all back, or over-processs it. Its just like clear on the cars paintwork.... thick enough is good enough... more is not better.

I honestly think people over think the entire process and surround it by arcane mysticism and hoodoo.... CA is set in seconds after a whiff of activator. If one can't do 10 to 12 pens in an hour they are playing around with it.


One but in all of this rhetoric :) is that I believe that the CA does get a bit harder during the 24 hours after setting, or at least that is my perception of things. It may not be so either :)

[brainstrust]

Woodpixel have you tried the CA glue at Hobbyking.com
They have "bigger" bottles that are very cheap.
I'd be interested to know what people think of them.
I've been using them for years but for pen finishes I have been "talked into" using far my expensive stuff!
I seem to be getting better results but maybe its more in the technique then the glue.

[woodPixel]

There are many people here who are vastly more experienced than I on these things.

My opinion is only one perspective, so do shop around.

The CA offered by this mob is a nice selection :) GOOOOD prices too! Hobby King - 'CA glue' (https://hobbyking.com/en_us/catalogsearch/result/?q=CA+glue&___store=pt_pt&___from_store=pt_pt)



My use of finishes is one of simply getting a nice presentation with a minimum of fuss. There are a few threads here where I talked about the time and process taken to thump out a few pens. I dont remember it exactly, but if you said less than 10 minutes from glued-blank-to-finish I wouldn't be surprised.

Others swear by other finishes such as BLO, Livos kunos, waxes and such.

These are excellent for boxes and other objects - my personal opinion is that hands are filthy things, the pens are used in hostile environments, thrown into handbags, and not particularly cared for either. The tougher the finish the better. CA can easily be cleaned and refurbished.

[RSD]

I need some help here to sort out some confusion - what CA glue in the BSI range are you all calling "Thin"? I couldn't get any thin from Amazon so ordered thin from Gary Pye - and received Super thin - its all getting a bit confusing!

[brainstrust]

woodPixel you there?????
I used your CA method when you first posted your link in this thread and got great results.
Now after not using for awhile I'm failing! Pens get a white coating after the wet sanding, what am I doing wrong!!!!?
I've tried very light sanding and still the same.
Am I not letting the CA cure enough first? Is it too cold? Help!!!

[woodPixel]

I'm not sure, but I do know these things from a combo of experience and others wisdom:

-- White is caused by moisture

-- If one doesn't cap the CA tightly between sessions that it adsorbs moisture from the atmosphere
-- I've been TOLD that it "goes off" after time. I have NEVER experienced this myself. In fact, I've three bottles of CA right here I was using last week for a repair job (mate pranged his motorbike and we did the fairings) and it was perfect. It's over 3 years old and has been opened many many times. It is the 2oz BSI thin, medium and thick.
-- The Thick CA is getting a bit gluggy, but it is 3/4 used. For the $8 it cost me and years of use I'm not perturbed.
-- Some people keep it in the fridge. I don't know why this is. I leave it on the shelf, in a ziplock plastic bag. I live in Canberra. It gets bloody hot and cold here.

-- I use the Hafele Aktivator and always have. Love it. I have a box of it, but prices now are NUTS ($10.86 a can) and I'd find another if I had to buy more.

Ive seen the TimberBits guy set his CA with steam from a kettle. So how does this work for the anti-moisture wisdom? Geez, I don't know. I cannot reconcile it, but my own experience is that I've had a lliittllee more trouble on humid days than not.

Then again, my technique is pretty basic and is as I've put in that little writeup. It has worked well for me for all the different CA's Ive used. I cannot recall getting a bad result.... not terribly helpful! Soz!

I found during my process that I need only the tiniest fluff of Aktivator... the meerest puff. I mark the can with the number of puffs I get and I think the current can has 180 (???) It feel quite full still.

The reality of the using the paper towel, swooshing left right fairly rapidly, seems to set it off pretty fast anyway. The Aktivator seems just to harden it up and finish it off.... then its immediately off to the next coating, no delay....

Sorry I can't help more!

[woodPixel]

Just had a thought.

you are in Canberra. Are you doing this TODAY? You do realise its been 6 degrees and about 98% humidity for weeks? No doubt the pen blank may have sucked up a ton of moisture. Everything is wet.

Why not let friction solve these woes.... get a bit of paper towel and buzz the lathe up high. Friction that pen blank after doing the CA! zzzzzzzzzzzz, cook it!

[brainstrust]

It didn't feel as warm as 6 :cool:
you're probably onto something there.
how long do you wait until the first sand at 800 grit?
it's from then I go white even with the shortest lightest of sands.

[woodPixel]

I wait no time.

The final ppfftt is done, then it straight to the WET paper.

I put a try under the pen (with a towel under the pan to protect the lathe, and immediately use soppy wet and dry. I do it JUICY :)

It is only to level off the CA and should be quick. Once its white, its then onto the higher papers (micropads) then car polish.

I don not wait for any additional hardening like others say. I see no point. I've never had trouble regardless of which CA I've used.

[brainstrust]

wait once it's white??????? So after the first 800 grit wet sand it's meant to go white??????

[woodPixel]

Hehe. Yes, of course, its an acrylic, you have scratched the buggery out of it with the 800 sandpaper.....

The very first step is to take the freshly lain down CA and flatten it. It will not be perfect, though it will be close. The 800 takes off the high spots. They will be white. The low spots will still be clear.

-- Use the 800 until the whole pen is white, not a second more.
-- It doesn't take much. It doesn't need pressure, just juicy 800 W&D.
-- The instant the whole blank is flat (you'll see it, and feel it) start with the higher grits.
-- Others go through a whole routine of every paper, but I found it completely unnecessary. I just jump accord to the paper I use (not every 1500 is the exact same and YMMV)....
--

I was shown this technique a million years back by an old (ex?) forumite before he moved to Vic.... I've shown it to many people since.... BUT the reality is its the same technique that is in the videos by Timberbits.

[brainstrust]

I think I've come good!!!! I'll do some more this wknd and check I'm back on track!!