Some Leg pictures and a bowl turning question or three

[auscab]

I turn stuff. I'm not super fast but the job gets done without a catch . Mostly .
Here is some table legs just turned on the Wadkin and Reeded on the Woodfast. They are 128mm square.

457587457588457589

Ive had a Woodfast lathe for years that's been very good . Ive got a scroll chuck for the Woodfast which gets some use.

I just got a nice big Wadkin 8" lathe that has a gap in the bed . When the bed piece comes out It can turn 28.5 " inboard, and there is an outboard option as well for larger stuff .

What I want to do is learn more and get set up for some bowls and platters on the larger Wadkin. And searching a lot on Youtube pays off at times but its in tidbits of info.


Basically Ive got to learn more about chucking big bowls and platters. Brush up on turning them. I'm going to need a larger chuck and get an adapter part made .
The size of the chuck needed has me a bit confused. I don't know much about chucks. Which one ?
Is there a good book that covers larger bowls platters and chucks ?

I'm imagining trying out some 12" to 18" bowls and 12" up to 20" to 25 "platters for starters

Rob

[artful bodger]

Hi Rob
The Vicmarc chuck vm120 that I have is more than capable for the bowl sizes you would like to turn. You will have to buy a few sets of various sized jaws to be able to turn a variety of bowl sizes. The chuck is supplied with one set of jaws plus there is a booklet that comes with it that specifies al the available extra jaws. If you go by the approx rule that the foot of the bowl is 1/3 the diameter then you can work out which jaws to get.
Aside from that turning big bowls is pretty much the same as smaller ones especially with that nice Wadkin lathe you have.
Not sure about any book that specialises in larger bowls,platters and chucks however there is a fair bit of experience in this woodturning forum regarding them and I'm sure folk will be happy to answer any of your questions.
Cheers
P.S The legs look great!.

[Kuffy]

Stuart Batty has some good videos on Vimeo. This video is one for chucking and jaw selection. It doesn't answer your question exactly, but he does go into some of the benefits and problems with dovetail jaws and serrated jaws which may not be as obvious as you would expect after knowing about it.

Fundamental #2: Jaws and Chucks on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com/68649130)

Or a link to all of his videos on Vimeo. SB Tools on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com/woodturning)

[auscab]

Hi Rob
The Vicmarc chuck vm120 that I have is more than capable for the bowl sizes you would like to turn. You will have to buy a few sets of various sized jaws to be able to turn a variety of bowl sizes. The chuck is supplied with one set of jaws plus there is a booklet that comes with it that specifies al the available extra jaws. If you go by the approx rule that the foot of the bowl is 1/3 the diameter then you can work out which jaws to get.
Aside from that turning big bowls is pretty much the same as smaller ones especially with that nice Wadkin lathe you have.
Not sure about any book that specialises in larger bowls,platters and chucks however there is a fair bit of experience in this woodturning forum regarding them and I'm sure folk will be happy to answer any of your questions.
Cheers
P.S The legs look great!.

Thanks artfull.
Ive been looking at those on CWS
CWS Store - Vicmarc VM120 M30 dedicated thread chuck (https://www.cwsonline.com.au/shop/item/vicmarc-vm120-m30-dedicated-thread-chuck)

Perhaps Ill ring there and check on adapter details to suit that and what ever else I may want to use .Ill get that sorted then get a chuck.
The 1/3 foot rule is new to me, thanks .

Rob

[auscab]

Stuart Batty has some good videos on Vimeo. This video is one for chucking and jaw selection. It doesn't answer your question exactly, but he does go into some of the benefits and problems with dovetail jaws and serrated jaws which may not be as obvious as you would expect after knowing about it.



Or a link to all of his videos on Vimeo.

Good one Kuffy .

Ive been really enjoying Stuart Batty on youtube but hadn't searched Vimeo yet or hadn't worked out how to.

Hes good to listen to for sure .

Rob

[Optimark]

You may wish to consider getting the Vicmarc 120 chuck with an insert for the main lathe you intend using it with. This leaves the possibility of getting the correct adapter for any other lathe you own or may in the future own, being covered.

Another helpful accessory is a face plate ring or rings, of which, Vicmarc have four sizes. These can be helpful for may things, not just for bowl blanks.

Vicmarc VM120 Chuck Special (http://www.timberbits.com/vicmarc-vm120-chuck-special.html)

Click on the second bottom left hand corner picture, you get one face plate ring appropriate for the standard jaws, plus a spare set of jaw bolts, which do get a bit worn if you are constantly changing jaw sets for various jobs.

Mick.

[Ian Artlett]

If you could come to Paynesville you can have a tryout with my chucks and face plates on the VL300 variable speed lathe I turn bowls and platters to just under 600mm happy to help you
Ian

[auscab]

If you could come to Paynesville you can have a tryout with my chucks and face plates on the VL300 variable speed lathe I turn bowls and platters to just under 600mm happy to help you
Ian

Hi Ian . Nice Offer ! Thanks .
I'm just down the other end of the 90 mile beach from you . In Behind Wilsons Prom near PT Welshpool.

Ill keep that in mind if I happen to be going that way and contact you .
Getting to see and have an explanation is the best . When I worked in Melbourne a trip out to someones workshop was always well worth it . You always walk away so inspired by something you've seen like nothing else can do . I had a lot of visitors doing the same in My old workshop in Melbourne.
You do the same to me if your down my way please.

Rob

[auscab]

You may wish to consider getting the Vicmarc 120 chuck with an insert for the main lathe you intend using it with. This leaves the possibility of getting the correct adapter for any other lathe you own or may in the future own, being covered.

Another helpful accessory is a face plate ring or rings, of which, Vicmarc have four sizes. These can be helpful for may things, not just for bowl blanks.

Vicmarc VM120 Chuck Special (http://www.timberbits.com/vicmarc-vm120-chuck-special.html)

Click on the second bottom left hand corner picture, you get one face plate ring appropriate for the standard jaws, plus a spare set of jaw bolts, which do get a bit worn if you are constantly changing jaw sets for various jobs.

Mick.

Thanks Mick. Makes good sense . Id want it for the inboard side of the Wadkin.

That Wadkin of mine has 1 3/8 Whitworth thread on the inboard side. Wonder if that size can be had ? Ill ask .

With an adapter . This would mean you lose a bit of space by the adapter pushing
the chuck out a bit wouldn't it ?

So the right insert is better for space as well ?

If I wand to use it outboard Id need a 1 1/4 Left Hand adapter. Space doesn't matter out there.

Just out of interest . When I see a metric thread size like listed for that chuck of M30 x 3.5
Is that 3.5 threads per CM ? Or 3.5 per what ?

Rob

[tony_A]

Thanks Mick. Makes good sense . Id want it for the inboard side of the Wadkin.

That Wadkin of mine has 1 3/8 Whitworth thread on the inboard side. Wonder if that size can be had ? Ill ask .

With an adapter . This would mean you lose a bit of space by the adapter pushing
the chuck out a bit wouldn't it ?


So the right insert is better for space as well ?

If I wand to use it outboard Id need a 1 1/4 Left Hand adapter. Space doesn't matter out there.

Just out of interest . When I see a metric thread size like listed for that chuck of M30 x 3.5
Is that 3.5 threads per CM ? Or 3.5 per what ?

Rob

G'day Rob, hope you ended up sorting the cat problem.

On my lathe its the flat surface on the back of the chuck and adaptor registering against the flat surface behind the thread on the lathe spindle that aligns the chuck, not the thread. Any insert would need to maintain this registration.

Outboard threads are left hand so they don't undo while turning. A left hand adaptor would need to be locked to a right hand thread chuck for outboard turning.

Vicmarc have quite a range of threaded adaptors for their chucks and I'm sure I've seen where they will turn up special adaptors on request.

Metric threads are in mm per thread ie. 3.5mm per thread

If you have not done much turning I would suggest that you take up the offer of an experienced turner who is willing to give you some instruction. This will save a fair bit of frustration and greatly speed up the learning process.

I bought a couple of books, Richard Raffin, The Art of Turned Bowls, and Mark Sanger, Turning Hollow Forms. The main thing I was looking for when I got them was the design and shape of bowls and hollow forms, what is pleasing to the eye. The mechanics of turning isnt that hard when you understand the basics. The art of turning where you are producing something that is pleasing to the eye and pleasing to touch has more to it than you first think.

Tony

[Optimark]

Rob, you mentioned that inserts make you lose a bit, well they do, but not that much.

Attached is a picture of my 100 and 120 Vicmarc chucks. The 120 chuck is a direct thread type, whereas the 100 has a Vicmarc insert. The 120 direct thread protrudes 11mm from the rear of the chuck, the 100 insert protrudes 27mm from the 100 body. So a 16mm difference, not big, but it just may be an issue with a small bed and longish work.

Mick.

457625

[Ian Artlett]

yes, I will thanks, a few things to watch out for, the lathe needs to be well anchored to the floor or very heavy preferably both, When first mounted bring tailstock up as well , use slowest speed until balance is achieved. 3 hail Mary,s and into it
cheers Ian

[auscab]

G'day Rob, hope you ended up sorting the cat problem.

On my lathe its the flat surface on the back of the chuck and adaptor registering against the flat surface behind the thread on the lathe spindle that aligns the chuck, not the thread. Any insert would need to maintain this registration.

Outboard threads are left hand so they don't undo while turning. A left hand adaptor would need to be locked to a right hand thread chuck for outboard turning.

Vicmarc have quite a range of threaded adaptors for their chucks and I'm sure I've seen where they will turn up special adaptors on request.

Metric threads are in mm per thread ie. 3.5mm per thread

If you have not done much turning I would suggest that you take up the offer of an experienced turner who is willing to give you some instruction. This will save a fair bit of frustration and greatly speed up the learning process.

I bought a couple of books, Richard Raffin, The Art of Turned Bowls, and Mark Sanger, Turning Hollow Forms. The main thing I was looking for when I got them was the design and shape of bowls and hollow forms, what is pleasing to the eye. The mechanics of turning isnt that hard when you understand the basics. The art of turning where you are producing something that is pleasing to the eye and pleasing to touch has more to it than you first think.

Tony

Hi Tony . The one Cat I mentioned is still around I think. As well as others Ive spotted and the foxes. I am still planning on getting the trap.

Thanks for the metric thread info . That's a new one .

The offer for seeing getting chuck info from Ian would make a nice day out . I just have to find time . What I like doing is if I had something else that had to be done out that way , work related maybe , then doing two things on the one trip makes it easy . I have done a lot of turning though . Its all been furniture spindle work though . 30 years of it . Table legs, columns. Chair and stool parts and sets. Knobs .
Its bowls , chucks . Bowl gouges , Salt and pepper mills that I need to add to my skills . Only done two bowls since 1979 . I did an Oak plate the other day . The pleasing to eye and touch you mention did happen . Not just bey me but my family . A one hour present for my wife . Yeah I got a different sort of kick out of that . One I don't get out of furniture parts .

Thanks for the book info Ill have a look .

Ive seen the Vicmarc VN 150 chucks which look good . Couldn't get specs to compare to the 120 but with a guess its bigger at 150MM ? The VN 120 would be 120mm ?

Talking with Timberbits about adapters to hold it on my lathe .
They do have a long list of sizes Like for my inboard 1 3/8 6TPI but no mention if its BSW . I think the lady has to ask Vicmarc that to tell me .

I made a mistake saying My Outboard was 1 1/4 LH here before . Its 1 1/2 LH 6tpi . And because its a Wadkin Ive read the threads are BSW . I haven't checked with a thread gauge . Not sure I have a BSW one .

The other option I have with fitting to both sides of my spindle is a local engineer. I spoke with him today and he can make them. I could load and take my lathe end to him and they would be custom made and fitted. Couldn't get a price but Id guess they would be way more than the VM price? would there be any great advantage to doing it that way ?

Rob

[tony_A]

Id be willing to bet my left nut that the Wadkin lathe uses a British Whitworth thread, my saw does. The main difference between the British threads and UNC, UNF, metric is the thread angle. BSW being 55 degrees and the others being 60. In most agricultural situations (ie. for non engineering purposes) Whitworth and UNC can be interchanged, except for half inch where they have a different thread count. In your situation I would want a good thread fit on then spindle of a lathe would and would want the adaptor to have a Whitworth thread. I change chucks quite regularly on my lathe and a incorrectly mating thread can be expected to wear faster.
in my experience the Vicmarc adaptors work fine but a local engineer should be able to make up an accurate adaptor and likely to be more expensive. He would be able to set up a locking screw if needed on the outboard left hand thread.

[Paul39]

Some Wadkin info here. It may give the thread specs on the in and outboard sides.

Chuck inserts available for the Vicmarc 150 chuck: Chucks: Chuck Inserts (https://vicmarc.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=102&virtuemart_category_id=14)

If you are going to make big bowls or platters, buy a bare chuck with the biggest set of jaws and be done. If you need smaller jaws later, that can be added.

I turn 95% bowls. This book has a lot about technique: Turning Bowls with Richard Raffan: Richard Raffan: 9781561585083: Amazon.com: Books (https://www.amazon.com/Turning-Bowls-Richard-Raffan/dp/1561585084/ref=asc_df_1561585084/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312132076760&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=670640156401874713&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010332&hvtargid=pla-527230113553&psc=1)

Somewhere I read an admonishment about big bowls, "how many people are going to buy a 24 to 30 inch salad bowl". My short bed Woodfast swings 20 inches.

People made bowls for many years before chucks. If you have a faceplate, start there. Screw the faceplate to what will be the inside of the bow,l rough turn the outside, making a spigot on what will be the bottom of the bowl the exact diameter of the faceplate, making it deep enough to put in screws without coming into the bottom of the finished bowl.

Remove bowl from faceplate and screw faceplate on bottom, centering on spigot on bottom of bowl. Rough out bowl, leaving wall thickness 10 to 15 % of diameter of bowl. Let dry and move around, it will shrink oval, how much depending on how dry the blank is, type of timber, section of the log, phase of the moon, or whether your breakfast toast landed jam side up or down.

I use the tail center all the time, when flattening the bottom I leave a nub under the center until the last, then move the tail stock back and turn that off.

The bowl may also crack, there are many ways promoted on how to prevent cracking, look up "drying roughed out bowls". Richard Raffan says, "no matter what you do, some crack & some don't. Depends on the above reasons.

This lady works big, see how she mounts bowl blanks: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PMEJ7rirso)

Also: Big lathe question(s) | American Association of Woodturners (http://www.aawforum.org/community/index.php?threads/big-lathe-question-s.11880/)

People here who work big, all use faceplates: Albert LeCoff — Wood, Revisited (http://www.woodrevisited.org/albert-lecroff)

Don't be shy about asking questions here, there are a bunch of bowl turners and a few who work big.

[Paul39]

Some Wadkin info here. It may give the thread specs on the in and outboard sides.

Chuck inserts available for the Vicmarc 150 chuck: Chucks: Chuck Inserts (https://vicmarc.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=102&virtuemart_category_id=14)

If you are going to make big bowls or platters, buy a bare chuck with the biggest set of jaws and be done. If you need smaller jaws later, that can be added.

I turn 95% bowls. This book has a lot about technique: Turning Bowls with Richard Raffan: Richard Raffan: 9781561585083: Amazon.com: Books (https://www.amazon.com/Turning-Bowls-Richard-Raffan/dp/1561585084/ref=asc_df_1561585084/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312132076760&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=670640156401874713&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010332&hvtargid=pla-527230113553&psc=1)

Somewhere I read an admonishment about big bowls, "how many people are going to buy a 24 to 30 inch salad bowl". My short bed Woodfast swings 20 inches.

People made bowls for many years before chucks. If you have a faceplate, start there. Screw the faceplate to what will be the inside of the bow,l rough turn the outside, making a spigot on what will be the bottom of the bowl the exact diameter of the faceplate, making it deep enough to put in screws without coming into the bottom of the finished bowl.

Remove bowl from faceplate and screw faceplate on bottom, centering on spigot on bottom of bowl. Rough out bowl, leaving wall thickness 10 to 15 % of diameter of bowl. Let dry and move around, it will shrink oval, how much depending on how dry the blank is, type of timber, section of the log, phase of the moon, or whether your breakfast toast landed jam side up or down.

I use the tail center all the time, when flattening the bottom I leave a nub under the center until the last, then move the tail stock back and turn that off.

The bowl may also crack, there are many ways promoted on how to prevent cracking, look up "drying roughed out bowls". Richard Raffan says, "no matter what you do, some crack & some don't. Depends on the above reasons.

This lady works big, see how she mounts bowl blanks: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PMEJ7rirso)

Also: Big lathe question(s) | American Association of Woodturners (http://www.aawforum.org/community/index.php?threads/big-lathe-question-s.11880/)

People here who work big, all use faceplates: Albert LeCoff — Wood, Revisited (http://www.woodrevisited.org/albert-lecroff)

Don't be shy about asking questions here, there are a bunch of bowl turners and a few who work big.

[Paul39]

I just stumbled upon this, shows some techniques: YouTube (https://youtu.be/3TJ9IwUgvoc)

[artful bodger]

[QUOTE=auscab;2147877]Hi Tony . The one Cat I mentioned is still around I think. As well as others Ive spotted and the foxes. I am still planning on getting the trap.



Not sure where the Cat problem fits into this topic, I must have missed it. However a trap is a sterling move. Saw a feral cat here one evening and borrowed a possum trap.
For the first SIX nights I set it I caught a cat each night!. Then nothing the next night, then another the next. Got 8 cats in 10 nights before no more were to be caught. We have the endangered "Stripey Barred Bandicoots here", that are extinct on the mainland. It was nice to help them out a bit.

[Ian Artlett]

Tin of sardines lid half open 6 finely crushed Panadol mixed in also works


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[auscab]

I just stumbled upon this, shows some techniques: YouTube (https://youtu.be/3TJ9IwUgvoc)

Thanks Paul . I spent a few hours looking at all the links you posted . Great stuff !

I think I will start off with the face plate . I like the look of it and Ive got the gear for it . I'll get a chuck as well, Ill just back off a little and not rush it . Ive been doing a little looking at Pre chuck ways of bowl turning . A week ago I saw for the first time with Stuart Batty what a Jam chuck was .

I'm starting to understand the chucks better as well. The Vicmarc website was a good one . Makes sense, they have covered info on their chucks the best .

You put up a link that was a run of pictures in the Albert LeCoff link , and a replicating lathe is in there . 1822 . I follow those things , love them . That's a great picture of one ! I have one (much later) and its behind My first picture in this thread. Unplugged and covered in stuff waiting for a new spot in my new workshop . I had it running in the last workshop and used it . First one of those I saw was in a video of the Springfield Armory showing how Civil War gun stocks were made. I didn't know they went back to 1822. That's early . Suppose they could have been done a bit earlier as well.

Rob

[auscab]

[QUOTE=auscab;2147877]

Not sure where the Cat problem fits into this topic, I must have missed it.

It was awhile back in another section artfull :)


A Ferral Cat Problem (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f137/ferral-cat-224818)

[Paul39]

Omitted Wadkin info from my earlier post: Wadkin RS, RU & RUH Lathes (http://www.lathes.co.uk/wadkin/)

From the above: "Unfortunately the spindle nose at left and right was altered over the years and, in addition, it is known that Wadkin would provide (within reason) any spindle thread the customer required, so allowing him to make use of existing faceplates and other fittings."

If you have a faceplate, take that to where you go to buy a chuck and adapter.

Turning bowls with scrapers: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=robo+hippy+bowl+turning+with+scrapers)

One can turn bowls with a 5/8 inch bowl gouge and a heavy 1 1/2 inch wide X 3/8 inch thick round nose scraper.

Best not to use a spindle roughing gouge for bowls, see: YouTube (https://youtu.be/IOhHeyoZLaY)