Had a go at a large wet bit of wood

[auscab]

We cut up a decent sized Eucalyptus last weekend . Not sure of exact species yet . Its a stringy bark . Wind blew it over , it just missed a fence and its a good load of fire wood now . Some of the trunk was kept for a try on the Wadkin lathe for a first big bowl on the faceplate.

Any one tried such wet Stringy bark for such bowls ?

458736 I split it trimmed it and mounted it 458737458738458739

Turned the outside with a spigot ? right name for it ?on the end 458740


Flipped it and hollowed out the inside . 458741

It ended up 390 wide x 140 deep not including the spigot.458742458743

Ive been watching youtube and left it to thick, about 10% for every 10 or 12 inches I think is what I saw. The sides are about 45mm thick now and I'm thinking of taking it to around 20mm when dry .

I tried to leave it an even thickness but the bottom ended up 10 or 15mm thicker than the sides and I left it at that . Its still on the lathe wrapped in a bag. Its very wet .

It has a few cracks around the heart which can be seen in the above picture on the left. Doesn't really matter what happens . I'll either patch it or throw it .

Problems so far are with my chisels and rest .
I couldn't get any deeper to get the bottom an even thickness with the sides because Its to far away with that rest and the standard chisels are to short.
I mainly used a 1/2 inch (pretty sure its that, got to measure it )spindle gouge with a 40 40 grind . That was good except the chisel is bending backwards. The good bowl gouge for the bottom is to short and the rest to far out to use it.

I suppose I need to make up a rest that gets in there close to the bottom . I have the steel and welder and forge or gas for that .
Just a long handled chisel isn't good enough for that gap with that rest. Its almost 100mm or 4 inches from rest to bottom .

Questions are .

With the long type chisels I see Stuart Batty using . Is a good way to get that sort of thing for a decent price to but a say , 5/8 spindle for a 40/40 grind and / or a 3/4 bowl gouge and to fit those to decent length handles myself ?

Any recommendations on the two or more blanks I could use for this type of bowl with my own handles.

The 3/4 bowl gouge I have is a good one I think . An Old unused P&N with Blackwood handle . I could possibly put a new long handle on that for the bottoms.

If the slight thickness of the bottom is no big deal Ill take it off the lathe and paint the end grain up and stick it on a shelf . Should it be in a bag ? Ive only got those poly / plastic woven chaff bags . Its got to be dried slowly doesn't it? will they do ? Or just the painted bag stored away with no bag ?

Rob

[Nubsnstubs]

Rob, you've got a good start on what will probably be a pretty good looking large bowl. According to my translation, that's 5 1/2" deep x 15 1/4+" diameter. Since you're into winter there, it might take longer to dry.

As far as not having the right tool rest goes, you do have one that will do the job. Look at your picture where the bowl is spinning with the tool rest angled. It's on the OD, but when doing deep bowls, angle the tool rest into the bowl, and it will pretty much work for you without any issues. The curve from the wall to bottom will be the only place where you might have too much tool overhang, but it won't be anywhere near what you show in your other pictures.

I collected some Eucalyptus that was cut down on July 4th.I suppose it had been dead a long time, but it was still soaking wet. There had to have been thousands of cracks on each cut that went in about 3" before being solid wood again. I don't know which tree it is, but had the long straight leaves with the smooth bark. Bright red, but turns brown in a couple years. I like it, but must deal with cracking and warps............ Jerry (in Tucson)USA

[auscab]

As far as not having the right tool rest goes, you do have one that will do the job. Look at your picture where the bowl is spinning with the tool rest angled. It's on the OD, but when doing deep bowls, angle the tool rest into the bowl, and it will pretty much work for you without any issues. The curve from the wall to bottom will be the only place where you might have too much tool overhang, but it won't be anywhere near what you show in your other pictures.

Jerry (in Tucson)USA

Thanks Jerry . Yeah I didn't try that angle . Ill give it a go .

Rob

[Paul39]

Auscab, Your 3/4 inch will be stiff enough to overhang quite a bit. I am comfortable with 1/3 to 1/4 the overall length of the tool. I mounted a 3/4 inch bowl gouge on a big, fat, heavy, handle with a long strong ferrule. It is about 36 inches overall and I am comfortable hanging 12 inches over the rest.

The drawback of a fixed tool in a long handle is doing a swept back grind using a jig. I free hand grind resting it on a flat platform, making a very slight swept back. It is a "bottom feeder" and works fine inside and out.

Wrap your roughed out bowl in 7 layers of newspaper and stick it on the shelf, turn it over every week or so for a month, when it has turned oval, put a thick piece of timber in the chuck and make a 6 - 7 inch flat round on the end, put the inside of the bowl against that and run the tail center into the impression left on the spigot, or find the center of the spigot, get the tail center up nice and tight and make the spigot round, flat, and with a good bearing surface for the end of the chuck jaws. Turn off all but the nub under the center and if it will go inside the center of the chuck leave it.

Turn bowl around and grip spigot in chuck, turn round again just enough to get round. Remove and stick on shelf until it quits moving, check for oval every month or so. When it quits moving, finish.

Do a search here and on Google, "drying wet roughed out bowls", every turner has one or more favorite methods.

[NeilS]

Rob

IME, the wetter the better when green turning.

Looking at your photos (and measurements), I think you have left too much thickness in the sides. Most Eucalypt is relatively stable compared to some other species and doesn't need to be left quite so thick. I'd leave no more then 10% (ie, 40mm for a 400mm bowl).

I also leave less thickness than that in the base. I go very close to the final thickness near the centre. There is much less warpage in that base area. And, you already have a very thick spigot there. I hollow out the spigot a bit to overcome some of that. I wouldn't be surprised if you get some splitting there if left as it is. I understand that you don't have the tools the way you are current using them to thin out the inside bottom, but if you angle in the rest as Jerry suggests you might manage to turn more out.

Stuart Batty's 40/40 grind is for bowl gouges. Spindles gouges have had very limited use on bowls since the bowl gouge was developed.

The old P&N gouge that you have should be good as a bottom feeder.

When you ask, "any recommendations on the two or more blanks", are you asking for recommendations on un-handled bowl gouges? If so, I'm sure there will be plenty of advice on offer there.

If you have cracks starting near the heartwood, they will only grow. get some CA on them as soon as possible! If you are not winning with that turn the cracks right out. Don't be fooled by the cracks subsequently appearing to close up again. They are just waiting to appear again later.

I have my own method for drying green blanks, but have used the woven poly bags you are thinking of using. They are OK as a second stage, but I would combine them with endgrain sealing if you intend to start with them. I usually start with the wet turned blanks in cardboard boxes with a few wet shavings thrown in to slow down the drying process. I expect at least a 10% loss rate and don't get too fussed if it is 15-20%. But, everyone who green turns has their own method that they use and will be happy to share the method that works for them.Just

PS - As Paul points out, the drying process can take a long time. Don't be impatient, just go and turn some more green blanks...:cool:
And, once fully dry there is no rush either, they will wait for you to get back to them. I'm currently returning blanks dated 2005-2009, although I doubt I'll still be turning any that I green turn now in 15yrs time, but you never know... :U

[rod1949]

Its just going to crack/split no matter what. Mother Nature will have her way.

[auscab]

I re positioned the rest in like Jerry recommended and it gave me a little more working room . I was not perfect . To steep an angle with the rest but I got the bottom down a bit more and some more off the inside side to get it all even . I need a different rest in there and a better way of mounting it on the lathe for bowls .

Thanks for all the good info as well Niel and Paul .

Yeah Rod . Its going to do what it wants .

Its a nice different experience for me turning green wood . The shavings are something real different . And being so wet I have discovered the need to either cover up any thing that rusts or clean it down asap . Its about the same as leaving a machine in the rain! Maybe its the tanic acid in there as well ! Boy it rusts cast iron up fast .


"When you ask, "any recommendations on the two or more blanks", are you asking for recommendations on un-handled bowl gouges? If so, I'm sure there will be plenty of advice on offer there."

Yes Niel . I had seen these linked here somewhere . Woodworking Supplies S/E QLD - Thompson Bowl Gouges (http://www.woodworkingsuppliesqld.com.au/Woodturning-Chisels2/Thompson-Turning-Tools/Thompson-Bowl-Gouges)

That sort of thing looks pretty good maybe ?



Stuart Batty's 40/40 grind is for bowl gouges. Spindles gouges have had very limited use on bowls since the bowl gouge was developed. "
Is it ? I did it and it worked . Big streamers of wet shavings covering me from head to hand at some points . Worked perfectly well on a big 175 x 175 mm Oak pair of columns I just did as well . Ill do the same on a bowl gouge and see . It can only get better then ? :)



The drawback of a fixed tool in a long handle is doing a swept back grind using a jig. I free hand grind resting it on a flat platform, making a very slight swept back. It is a "bottom feeder" and works fine inside and out."
Yes Paul . I'm not into jig sharpening . I free hand shape everything else I do so . Like bench work chisels, planes and carving chisels. I like to keep touch ups as fast as possible with my furniture spindle turning , and get back to the work . Ill take longer if its needed but setting up jigs is not my thing .


Rob

[NeilS]

Yes Niel. I had seen these linked here somewhere . Woodworking Supplies S/E QLD - Thompson Bowl Gouges (http://www.woodworkingsuppliesqld.com.au/Woodturning-Chisels2/Thompson-Turning-Tools/Thompson-Bowl-Gouges)

That sort of thing looks pretty good maybe ?





Yes, the Thompson bowl gouges are good work horses.

Vicmarc also sell an un-handled BG made in the same type of steel as the Thompsons (V10), but I'm not yet convinced they are made as well.




Yes Paul . I'm not into jig sharpening . I free hand shape everything else I do so . Like bench work chisels, planes and carving chisels. I like to keep touch ups as fast as possible with my furniture spindle turning , and get back to the work . Ill take longer if its needed but setting up jigs is not my thing .


Rob



I think the point that Paul was making is that long handles are a problem regardless of whether you are jig or freehand platform sharpening. Most of us benefit from a longer handle than comes standard with a bowl gouge and that longer handle gets in the way (well it is you that gets in the way when the handle swings around and hits you) when you swing from one wing to the other. Being able to quickly remove the handle to sharpen works much better.

For the first 30yrs of turning I sharpened all of my gouges freehand, but have been using jigs since they became available. In my experience it takes me no longer to sharpen using a jig. By the time I step to the grinder and it spins up the jig is on the tool and fixed ready to grind. I like getting almost exactly the same grind profile every time.

PS - I 'freehand' sharpen my Japanese chisels, plane blades and knives, but they have simple profiles that are easier to maintain.