Catchin the Rat........An Introduction to the Woodrat Joinery System

[NewLou]

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For all the newer 'Woodies' Like Myself exploring the commercial jig market it can often be a confusing & sometimes costly experience. When working through what does what........ how much it will be.......... and what I can expect from my hard earn't coin the decision in regards to which path to take can be an agonising one.

Heres a real Handy Summary of all the latest Dovetailing Jigs on the Market:

http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/dovetail_jig_compare.htm

For me I've decided to go down the path of the Woodrat. Although more expensive & in the higher end of the Joinery Jig market The Woodrat promises to Deliver a complete 'system' allowing the user to Mill a number of different Joinery Types.

I was recently lucky enough to aquire a pre-loved Rat from Steve (Thx m8) at a good price.....................so took the plunge and am expecting to recieve my newly aquired Rat early next week!!!:D :D :D

A great place to start with all things Woodrat in Australia is the Official Woodrat site which can be found here:

http://www.woodrat.com.au/

Ths is hosted by Garry who is a top bloke & able to provide pleanty of advise and information on the Woodrat System. I'm Hopin that this thread will be a good resource for all considering the Woodrat as their prefered commercial Joinery system and Invite all 'Rat' owners & experienced users to help us new 'Ratters' get on our Way!!!

I'll do my usual thing and start Posting 'the cream of the crop' in regards to Rat resources I stumble Across.

Heres the official Woodrat Site:


http://www.woodrat.com/



REgards Lou :D :D :D

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

Heres a great resources that takes you through the Woodrat from opening the box to practicing Dovetails:

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/wr-2.htm

And furthermore heres a continuation of projects from WoodShopDemos:

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/wr-58.htm

I've found these great 'Ratter' resources that help to de-mystify what the Rat is all about; what it can do and how to go about it!!!! I must admit there appears to be a steap learning kerb in regards to mastering the Rat.........................N look foward to the challenge:D :D :D

REgards lou;)

[MikeW]

Hey Lou,

I have a 'Rat. Bought it last year. While I do a lot of handwork, for much of my commercial work I use it. I think you'll find that when you learn one thing using the rat, the next thing you do will become easier. It's the only machine I have ever experienced that with.

Too, you will find ever more uses for it. And jigs. You'll think of many jigs. As a starting point for jigs, check out Aldel's site in the UK:

http://www.aldel.co.uk/

Also, for useful goodies, there's The Craftsman's Gallery:

http://www.thecraftsmangallery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=W

Take care, Mike

[NewLou]

Thx for the post MikeW:)

Any advise you'd give to new Rat Owners? Thinking back to when first starting with the RAt what were your most important observations..........Anything you'd pass on???

REgards Lou:)

[MikeW]

Hi Lou,

Just make things. First thing I made was a small wall mounted cabinet with box joints, mortise and tenon door with a raised panel, stopped dados for the 2 shelves and a ply back in order to mount by the rat for the little bits and bobs for it.

That was a bunch of small, non-critical operations in order to learn how to use the thing. I then did a couple boxes for holding work things with lots of parts. Made them using the dovetail cutters to learn pins and tails.

After that, it was a real life project. I took it slower than I normally would have so I could catch any mistake. Didn't have one.

I have found that for me, I could not use their directions exactly for producing dovetails. Most of that was due to my router, a Festool, I understand. But I mostly use the directions on Aldel's site. Once you've successfully made a few, you'll be able to pretty much set up and begin cutting DTs in short order.

Not much help, really. Sorry 'bout that. Mainly just start making non-critical things that use the types of joinery you use. I don't know about you shop, but mine can always use something. No better way to practice to me.

Take care, Mike

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

Well my new WoodRat precision Joinery Machine arrived this morning at about 10.30am All secure and intact thx to the 2 Miles of bubble wrap Steve entombed her in.

A Big thx to Steve AKA: Auld Bassoon who was a true gentleman to deal with n Highly recommended as a Seller if he's wanting to part with any further gear down the track!!!! Very trustworthy & a true blue bloke!!!!

For me the next step is familiarising myself with all the bits and pieces & developing a plan to mount the Rat in my new Shed. I'll keep you posted on my progress.

As with all new toys its a bit daunting at this stage of the process but I'll try and share as much as I can as I learn along the way. What I hope to do is share Information with those interested in the Woodrat & new owners alike.

REgards Lou:D:D:D:D:D

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

Well after a sight inspection by my Lovely Foreman Imogen we finally decided on a home to mount the Rat. I must admit this posed a few new challenges for me as all the framing of my new shed is steel angle of various sizes and thicknesses...........Stuff i've never worked with before.

After a lot of agonising I came up with the idea of Laminating MDF to size. The plan being to use the MDF Joined to the structure of the shed as Cleats to mount a large sheet of Melamine vertically.

I decided that Laminating MDF to 50mm would be durable enough for the job & not move around as much as some structural grade hardwood.....And yes I'm going to seal it!!!

I drilled some pilot holes into the Steel angle Slapped on some West System Epoxy and dove some 75mm Steel Screws into the MDF & steel structure. I pre fabed some pilot holes and washers on the Drill press in the MDF cleats before going 'on site' as I found that this is a great way to torque down this kind of stock in the past.

I can highly recommend the Pump systems that are sold as an accessory for West System Epoxy.....I had no problems mixing and preping n found it a great system far superior to the 2 pack syringe setups that stuff up 1 in 4 times from my local harware stores.

[NewLou]

Hey there:)

.............N heres the finished Job. Nothing fancy just some cleats that I can now mount some melamine to. The Melamine slab I'm planning on using is 1210 * 1880mm I'm not to sure which is th best way to go about this?????

Should I mount the Melamine directly to the MDF????

OR

Make a frame mount to the MDF then mount the melamine to the frame????

I want to make this structure as solid and sturdee as possible It must not flex while the Rat is mounted to it!!!

All Ideas really appreciated!!!!

REgards lou:confused::confused::eek:

[Auld Bassoon]

Hi Lou!

Be sure that those metal rails are sturdy enough to take the weight of the Rat plus Router and wall mounting (say 45Kg) - plus the weight of any timber stock you might want to put through the machine - without any noticeable flexing.

Similarly make sure that those rails have a secure backing, because I for one wouldn't want Mr Rat, a screaming router, plus a ruddy great lump of timber come falling towards me when using the beastiehttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

When I had it, it was mounted with a number of 150mm masonery bolts into a brick wall...

Cheers & enjoy!

[mat]

OK Steve

The obvious question - why don't you still have it :confused:

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

Well as some of you are aware I've now had my Rat for quite some time with seemingly no use as yet. I've decided to have a play in my shed for a few months and get my hands on a decent dustie before I start seriously getting into the Woodrat & what she can do.

Also at this stage I'm still not to sure where to mount the Rat in my shed However I'm soon to make a few decisions. What I can do though is make a few initial observations about the Setup of the RAt & the path I have chosen to try & get the most I can from it.

If there is an initial weakness to this Joinery system for the Average hobbiest woodworker its the initial cost to set up & get the most from the Rat. Indeed the official Woodrat Router Bits are expensive as is kitting out a bit set to create some versatility in those first few projects.

It soon becomes obvious that taking the plunge to own; master and develop an intimate knowledge of the limitations & what you can do with the woodrat joinery system is more like a marriage requiring a substantial dollar & time investment.

But as those who have already taken the plunge with the rat already know............. the potential versatility and the ability of the Rat to develop into a dedicated joinery system in the workshop regardless of size is its lure.

REgards Lou:)

[doug the slug]

But as those who have already taken the plunge with the rat already know............. the potential versatility and the ability of the Rat to develop into a dedicated joinery system in the workshop regardless of size is its lure.

REgards Lou:)

sounds a bit like what i said earlier tonight in the woodrat vs dovetail jig thread in the router section - not the easiest system to master but well worth the effort as far as i can see, having not mastered it yethttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

I guess theres 2 schools of thought in regards to stocking up on bits. Buy as you go and need a certain type of bit for a particular job OR alternatively buy bits and stock up creating a kit that you think you might need (This is the way I have decided to go - See Pics)

Consider getting your hands on some quality s<!--StartFragment -->olid carbide up cut spiral bits these babies are expensive (Check out Carb-i-tool & CMT's range) but provide a great quality cut in woodrat Joinery Processes. The way I've decided to develop my kit I'll hopefully give me maximum versatility in exploiting the potential of the RAt

REGards Lou

[doug the slug]

Consider getting your hands on some quality s<!--StartFragment -->olid carbide up cut spiral bits REGards Lou

definitely agreed, can see great potential for upcut bits with the rathttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif

[NewLou]

Don't expect to be able to use the RAt straight outta the box. Theres a process involved in regards to mounting the Rat that takes some care and consideration.

Also a good dust collection system is a godsend all router owners knowing the potential mess these puppies can throw around the workshop!!!!

Be warned to get the most from this system try to give yourself pleanty of room either side of the Rat. In addition something most seem not to consider to much is the Vertical space you allow for stock when using the RAT. I'm presently working on a JIG to address this issue.

REgards Lou:)

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

BEing a HAppy Dewalt 621 owner which only has a 50mm plunge depth in the 2HP range I finally came across some limitations. Officially Woodrat claims a 2 inch maximum depth of cut which is adequate for most joinery applications.

I agonised over which way to go here a Triton or Metabo 1812. I finally went the 1812

80mm plunge depth
1800W
5.1 kg
And most importantly supported by Woodrat aftermarket accessories namely the type F plunge bar. The big M's a german made beast that looks solid n easy to use.

My main attraction to this particular router is its obvious manufactoring quality the 80mm plunge & the smoothness of its plunge action (For which its renouned for) Although the collet setup is not as user friendly as most I reckon this is a small price to pay for what the Big Metabo has on offer.

I'll give some more feedback on how the Metabo holds up as I go along.

REgards Lou:D :D :D

[NewLou]

As has been posted in previously theres some great internet resources in regards to the Woodrat system. Probably one of the handiest I've come across is the craftsmans gallery. Theres some great aftermarket do-dads n gidgets designed to add more versitility and user friendlyness.

I've put in an order for a a number of items which I'll do a post on as I go!!

REgards Lou:D :D :D

[Shedhand]

Gidday:)

Well after a sight inspection by my Lovely Foreman Imogen Not a common name mate. My grandaughters name is Imogen (immy for short). She's 16 and a little beauty like yours.:):)

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

Well this weekend I started the first stage of mounting the WoodRat in my Shed. I've decided to skin some 19mm MDF with Tempered Masonite (Tuff smooth flat worksurface See Picks)

And attach this to some solid framing I've began in the shed nect to my fixed workbench. I'm hoping this will add some good flexability for stock support options.

In addition after mastering setting T-Track into man made boards see:

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=24060&highlight=track+man+made+boards

I plan to inlay some track into my laminate so that the Rat can travel freely vertically up and down. This will give me more flexability in regards to the length of stock I will be able to mill vertically with the Rat.

(Something that I have noticed is often neglected amoungst the online Rat community)

Also my laminated MDF mounting board will be able to accommodate T - Track for a number of clamping Jigs I've got in mind.

Any comments or further suggestions to the design appreciated!!!

REgards Lou:D :D :D

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

Well I got some goodies in yesterday from the Craftsmans GAllery. As some of you are aware there are a number of aftermarket accessories that can be incorporated into the RAt that Allow a number of adjustment and clamping options designed to enhance the 'RAT'.

I've tried to pick accessories that will add to the ease of use and set up to the RAT and I'll give a rundown on how I've gone about using them as I go. I've decided to order stuff But I reckon you could make or fabricate a lot of these items yourself..................Yer yer I know I'm lazy:p

REgards LOu:D :D :D

[doug the slug]

Hi Lou,
looks like you are making similar progress with the 'rat.
I too identified a need to raise and lower the beast for different projects, but since mine is mounted on a wall section i made to sit in superjaws, all i needed to do was cut a slot to halfway up the wall section and just clamp it in the jaws at the required height.

i am trying to get my hands on a digital camera so i can post pics of this and other features. i was going to post them in the other woodrat thread in the routing forum, where my project has generated a fair bit of interest, but i willk post them in here too for ease of comparison to how you are tackling the same issues.

Happy 'rattinghttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif

[NewLou]

Gidday Doug:)

Fantastic I reckon its a great idea and of course invite all other ratters to join in. Heres the draft plan for my mounting board (See Pics)

I'm going to mount an MDF form to the sliding cleat. This will act as a mount for the Rat & also add more dust extraction options. As previously posted I've gone with aluminium mounting brackets (4 in all) for a good solid mount for the Rat.

After developing the Poorman Workbench I've become a real fan of T-Track and reckon I can develop some additional clamping options which will be handy for large and heavy stock.

Lets face it if your gonna outlay to get a Rat and some decent Bit Options then you want to be able to make the most of it!!!!

The brief for developing this Mounting Rig is Strength & Versatility I'm attempting to develop a system that will be able to handle most clamping problems seemlessly with minimal setup and mucking around.

In addition it will also need to provide Clamping Grunt for not only light but heavy Joinery Tasks. At this stage it seems that this will require an intergration of both Jigs & quick/Powerful Clamps.

Regards Lou:D :D :D

[doug the slug]

Well i am mounting my 'rat quite differently to Lou. two different approaches to the same problem. Lou, it seems, likes to have a fixed workshop and bring the jobs to it. My approach is to make the workshop mobile and take the shop to the work.

Hence my 'rat is mounted on a dummy wall section i made to fit into superjaws as shown in the photos below.
Pic 1 is the wall section without the 'rat, note the pine mounting rail and the dust collection port. the holes in the top are to allow access to the bit and tool storage areas to keep everything handy. pic 2 shows this better. pic 3 shows the height adjustment slot above the superjaws clamp, it cna be clamped at any height along the range with ease. pic 4 shows dust extraction outlet, internals of dust extraction in next post

[doug the slug]

First pic is of the wall section before the back is permanently fixed to it, middle section is dust extraction. note the reinforcing below the dust extraction to withstand the superjaws clamping pressure
pic 2 is the 'rat on the wall
pic 3 shows how i attach the triton router using a cut-down section of the triton fence. the bolt holes are in the right spot to mount the makita router if ii need to for some reason.
pic 4 shows the fence covered with griptape, which i have found to be far superior to glasspaper or sandpaper often used on jigs etc.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif
theres a bit more on what i am doing in this thread
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?p=247484#post247484

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

Well I'm starting to make some progress on the wall mount for my Woodrat. As mentioned I'm taking a different tack to Doug setting my Rat up as a permanent workstation in the Shop.

I'm doing a lot of research and prep work cause I wanna get the most I can from the Rat straight off the bat. I plan to do some Big Dovies for my first real workbench.

As mentioned I'm attempting to design a versatile mounting wall for my Rat incorporating T-Track to give me pleantly of clamping and Jig options. Heres a few pics of the process I use.

Regards Lou

[NewLou]

Hey there :)

I think these pics will give a better idea of where i'm going with this. The next step is to order in some t-track from professional woodarkers suppliers. I'm not to sure wether to make up some custom clamps or simply copy some of woodrats clamping jig ideas

.........................I'll do a post on which track I decide to take when the time comes

Regards Lou:D:D:D

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

Well after saving some spare coin and re-stocking from professional woodworkers supplies I've been able to recently re continue putting together the mounting wall for my Rat.

The Pics show the type of fastners various Jigs n Doo dads use to slide alone the T-Track. A simple T-Nut or 1/4 in Hex Bolt. I have found you can easily custom fit these to track with the help of some quick shaving with an angle grinder.

I've really found my SCMS a workhorse of my shop and is real handy for quick dimensioning of aluminium extrusion. Previously I used to use a Cheap Jigsaw with a Bi Metal Blade....................Also a realsonable technique.

Once dimensioned I laid out the T-Track and did some final adjustments. The key here is to ensure that both T-Nuts or Hex Bolts have enough clearence to easily slide in & out of the T-Track

[NewLou]

Some time ago now Lignum (Thx M8;)) put me onto a great non porus to non porus or wood adhesive called Sikaflex 295. This stuff ain't cheap but does a great job anchoring Aluminium extrusion to man made boards.

Fo added strength I'll drive some screws into the pre-tapped holes in the T-Track.

After seating the T-Track I have found it real handy to Belt the hell outta it to squeeze out any unnecessary SIKA (Theres a good example of this in the Pics)

[NewLou]

The last 2 Pics show how I ensure getting some SICKA on the sides of the T-Track and how I utilise some deep mouth clamps to assist during driving the screws.

This whole process is remarkably quick n easy and should add a whole new dimension to my mounting wall for Jigs n Fixtures for my Woodrat!!!!

................TOmorrow I'll tackle mounting the wall in my shed n If lucky might even be able to SETUP for my first test Run!!!

REgards Lou:D:D:D

[John Saxton]

NewLou,I wish you real great adventures with the Woodrat, but you appear to have to a lot of trouble to get to the stage whereby you're using the Tool!

I've had a Leigh and all it's accoutrements for quite a few years now, 15 minutes out of the box and it was set up.

Mind you the manuals take some time getting into and absorbing and each add on (and I've got them all) comes with it's own manual but I'm more than happy with the Leigh Jig ...off course I would have to say that being biased and justifying my expenditure but objectively I have seen the Rat demo'd at www shows and the only perspective I can see is that the Rat is probably best wall mounted whereas the Leigh is best used on a stable bench.

All in all they're comparable in the range of applications but from different spheres of operation.

Hope you have fun with your Rat as I have done with the Leigh.

Cheers:)

[doug the slug]

.........Mind you the manuals take some time getting into and absorbing and each add on (and I've got them all) comes with it's own manual but I'm more than happy with the Leigh Jig ........

Hi John, i got my 'rat about the same time Lou got his. and it does take a bit of learning to get used to how it works. ive set mine up to be portable whereas Lou is going for an elaborate fixed installation, which im looking forward to seeing completed. the big difference between the 'rat and the leigh jig (which would have been my second choice after the extensive research i did) is what you said above - the add-ons!!! the basic leigh jig is cheaper than the rat but when you want the leigh to do somethijng different you buy the addons. with the 'rat you just space the pencil lines differnetly and save $300 to spend on something else. you make your own jigs and can do mortise and tennon and dovetails and almost anything else you can think of on the basic unit. I am getting better with it every time i use it, and i doubt even the inventors have reached its full potential of use yet

[NewLou]

Well I'm *^&#%$

I put the mounting wall up today n m8 she was heavy. If anyone does a lot of heavy work like this alone (Like Me) these Bessey clamps are simply the best bit a kit I've come across in recent times.

I'm fair dinkum when I say they just allowed me to do the job of 3 men. I've used cleats to hold her up so I can ensure a square flat surface by shiming as required.

REgards Lou :eek::eek::eek:

[davo453]

As a seasoned rat user (almost 2.5 years now) I thought I'd say hi, well it's a little rat actually, not sure why I bought the smaller machine but haven't really regretted it well not for long anyway.

I've made so many things with this machine and it's starting to show it's age but I swear by it and at it some times too, but a few minutes spent scratching the head and rubbing the chin will generally solve the conceptual problems.

like you I found the need to adjust the height of the machine and did this by mounting it on the steps of a rarely used ladder to the mezzanine floor in my shed, giving me a wide range of heights.

I like the HSS bits but use tungsten bits mostly as often by the time I’ve reaslised that in particular the HSS dovetail bit is blunt its often already broken if you take my meaning.

Only major problem I've had was as a result of my own clumsiness, I somehow dropped the router with the sliding base attached and the base shattered, getting a new one wasn’t hard though and latter I managed to epoxy the broken one back together and now have 2 routers set up to run with the rat.

Incidentally ordering HSS bits and parts direct from the UK is a fair bit (pun) cheaper.

Cheers




Dave

[doug the slug]

Hi Davo, great to have another 'ratter contributing


....like you I found the need to adjust the height of the machine and did this by mounting it on the steps of a rarely used ladder to the mezzanine floor in my shed, giving me a wide range of heights.

Seems everyone has their own take on the height problem. ive mounted mine soi i have a small amount of adjustment upwards but because its in superjaws i can hang it over a balcony or hole in the floor if necessary. i cant conceive of any reason in the short term that i will need to cut dovetails in anything over the 1.5 metres i can do and if its a tennon i will probably do it on the triton instead, so height doesnt really bother me at the moment. BUT, im sure the day will come when i try to do just that little bit more, like we all do.


I like the HSS bits but use tungsten bits mostly as often by the time I’ve reaslised that in particular the HSS dovetail bit is blunt its often already broken if you take my meaning. Incidentally ordering HSS bits and parts direct from the UK is a fair bit (pun) cheaper.

Ive been getting mine from carbatec WA cos that seems to be the only polaace in aust that stock anything other than the basic machine, which i got in cartbatec brisbane, but thanks for the tip, i will no doubt outgrow the bits ive got, or wear them outhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif

[NewLou]

Gidday :D

Well today I did some test fits n adjustments. Made sure everything true n square then did a test fit with my Rat. Looks like shes coming together fine and will be rock solid.

My Rat is also set up to take advantage of the Bench real-estate I have to the left...... Should prove to be very versatile in this position!!

Not long till the big test run now!!!!

REgards Lou:D:D:D

[doug the slug]

Looking real nice Lou. good luck with the test run.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Simomatra]

Great stuff Lou

its looking really good. Terrific article.

Maybe its time for a woodrat section on the forum.

What do others think??

You have really got my interest

Cheers samhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif

[NewLou]

Gidday :D:D:D

Well done my last few checks and ensured everything is squared up n true!. I also did a test run of the Jig sliding along the tracks and I'm happy to say she worked fine:)

I've taken a few pics to show how all is fastened and THE RAT setup ready to go on her maiden run!!!

[NewLou]

I must admit it seems like I've watched the WoodRAt demonstration vide0 a hundred times. This has given me a familiarity with this joinery system before I even touched it.

The first joint I've decided to study is the mortise and tenon. Bear in mind this is the first time I have ever used THE RAT.

I marked out made a few minor adjustments and away I went. All I can say is WOW! The first thing you notice once getting a bit of a feel for THE RAT is the precision its capable of.

This is no word of a lie I found myself taking cuts off my Markup Line with accuracy and precision.

Very impressive start considering this is the first tenon I have ever made using the WoodRAT:D:D:D

[Lignum]

Lou:D this has been a fantastic thread to folow, and to see the first up results that you have achieved has finally made my mind up to go and get the Rat for myself.

[doug the slug]

Maybe its time for a woodrat section on the forum.

What do others think??



might be time soon fo that Sam, at least it would move faster than the green woodworking section. would certainly be handy if the existing threads such as this one and a couple of others were transferred straight into the new forum. interest in the 'Rat is certainly gaining momentumhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif

[NewLou]

Gidday:D:D:D

Well I got a bit of time in the Shed this weekend so started developing my 'RAT NEST' :eek:

:)Double checked everything n made sure things were square for a couple more test cuts. I check for square using my favourate square edge n a torch. It helps pic up any gaps and once 'true' no light gets through between the square and edge being checked.

Test cuts confirmed my Rat was ready to Go!!!

:D:D:D

[NewLou]

As I hope this thread to be Handy for all RAtters During testing I was lucky to notice that a small lock nut for the cam clamps had worked its way loose falling to the floor (I was lucky I found it!!)

My solution was simply to apply some LockTight (HAndy stuff this) now there should be no more problems. I certainily recommend all RAtters do something similar as it would be a real pain to loose this and have one of your cam clamps go down (See Pics)

One to look out for on regular maintence checks!!!

Next I'll continue working on some tenons............................

[NewLou]

Once again I have to stress that this is only the second time I have used my Woodrat!!! In continuing my attempt to master tenoning I thought I may as well go for it and try some quad tenons!!!

Not bad!!!

I had 2 attempts the first one was a bit rough but you can see an improvement in the second. Another thing about the RAT that I am getting my head around is that once you get an Idea of a few basic principles on how it works you start to learn FAST!!!!

I'll document my progression so that you guys can see the learning kerv!!!

Although at this stage the RAT seems really different and forign I am warming to it quickly and getting a feel for how it approaches Joinery

Once again I invate all RAtters to Join in on this Thread!!!

REgards Lou :D

[NewLou]

Hey:D

Heres a pick of my 'RAT NEST' getting close to 'the zone';) I starting setting everything up I think I'll be reaching for on a regular basis. This is where the real estate I have from my mounting block has been a real bonus:D

It also goes without saying that dust collection is a real must with any form of router based powertool use. I recently got my hands on an ex demo delta cyclone at a great price off the floor so was eager to set her up..............No more DUST WHOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOO!!!! :D

Regards LOu:)

[doug the slug]

Although at this stage the RAT seems really different and forign I am warming to it quickly and getting a feel for how it approaches Joinery

I found the same thing, Lou, once you get started you wonder why it ever looked complicated. Some things i still use the router table for though, mainly things you need to use the brush for on the 'rathttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Simomatra]

Fantastic thread Lou

Keep up the good work you are doing great.

Its off back to work for me again on Tuesday and will be away for at least 28 days.

Looking forward to getting home and hopefully will see the rat at the wood show.

Good input as well Doug This thread needs to be saved in the best of the best and if enough support in its own catagoury

Cheers Samhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif

[MikeW]

Wow Lou!

I haven't looked into this thread for a while and really missed a lot!

The Rat really is a better machine than some people think. By the time I made a little wall mounted cabinet to keep the bits n' bobs in, it seemed pretty old hat, really.

You've gotten on well. Congrats.

Take care, Mike
who will look in more often :o

[Auld Bassoon]

G'day Lou,

You seem to be making some very good progress with the Rat - big greenie launched. It is a cleverly designed and conceived machine, and if I were to go into production I would likely buy another, but for just hobby stuff, I still like the quiet smoothness of a good set of planes and chisels :)

[NewLou]

Gidday:D

As mentioned I have begun my Rat Journey studying mortice and tenons. Essentially my goal is to become quick and efficient at making tenons & mortises.

As most of us are aware great Joinery Systems provide accurate repeatability. AT first I must admit that I was a bit stumpted. How was I going to get accurate EAST/WEST (Meaning left/right) repeatability on the RAT. NORTH/SOUTH (Meaning Foward/BAck) Is taken care of by T -Track in the Aluminium Guide Rails

My previous experience on the RAT showed its ability for precision cuts. As mentioned earlier in TEST CUTS I was accurately shaving bits off my markup line.

However no matter how good I think I am an inevitable mistake would occur if I relied on my markouts to guide cuts alone!!!

WHat to do???

:confused::confused::confused:

[NewLou]

I scoured my Library of RAt Resources and came across reference at ALDEL's website:

http://www.aldel.co.uk/

to T-Track on the underside of the RAT. I didn't recall seeing reference to T-Track in the manuals or noticing it myself when setting up my RAT NEST.

I had to rush to the shed to investigate and low and behold there she was T-TRACK on the underside of the RAT!!!................I lit up like a X-MAs tree as I knew my prayers had been answered.

:D:D:D

[NewLou]

As some of you already know I love using T-TRACK and luckily for me I had recently stocked up on some goodies from professional woodworkers supplies!!

I've been saving these flip stops for my soon to be constructed Drill Press TAble but now had a better Idea for them. I'd be able to use them as Stops for East/West repeatability on the RAT.

After a bit of mucking around I came up with a configeration that worked well on the flip stops. Now I have an accurate repeatable system that simply folds outta harms way when not in use.

I'll keep interested ratters informed of how well they stack up to real world ratting........................initial tests appear promising indeed.

REgards Lou:D:D:D

[davo453]

Keep up the posts Lou all good stuff.

As I’ve said before I’ve had my Rat for some time and as this is a popular ratter thread at the moment I thought I'd ask a question.

After much use and frequent use of a pencil and eraser to mark off on the aluminum, It has become very stained and the are a few pencil marks that won’t come off at all.

Any ideas on how to remove them?

Cheers


Dave

[NewLou]

Gidday Davo:)

Check out the Newbie tips al AlDel's Website:

http://www.aldel.co.uk/

Probably the most important thing to consider is not to use any Silicone based products because if it gets on your stock it can cause havoc with your Finishing!

REgards Lou

[NewLou]

Gidday:D

Well I got to admit tenoning is a breeze on the RAT & I'll post a few PICS of what I have been up to in the near future.

Today I had my first crack at doing some mortises. As you can see in the PIC I have slighty modified the T-Track stops I've been using as my prototype was to fiddly and prone to loosening.

So far this setup has been rock solid and reliable for use as an EAST/WEST stop.

I began by marking out and squaring up my stock. It goes without saying that your stock needs to be the same to get the best outta the RAT. Rest easy knowing that you can use the RAT to dimension or trim stock as required (I used my SCMS)

[NewLou]

The mortises I attempted are 1/2 inch. I deliberately pick a cutter a tad smaller than the 1/2 inch mortise.

Set her up in the mortise rail, adjust my East/West stops then adjust my North/South stop in the aluminium guide rail then off I go:cool:

Once again please bear in mind that this is the first time ever that I have done mortises on the RAT!!!

I think the results speak for themselves:D:D:D:D I can't get over the ease that I can achieve hairline accuracy.

TOP STUFF!!!

REgards LOU:)

[doug the slug]

Probably the most important thing to consider is not to use any Silicone based products because if it gets on your stock it can cause havoc with your Finishing!

My woodrat came with a small bottle of silicon lubricant but i quickly removedthat from the workshop area for that very reason!

Lou, which version of the mortise rail do you have and did you make it yourself or did it come with the "rat?

[NewLou]

Gidday Doug:D

Without giving the old Basoon to much of a wrap I was very Lucky Steve gave me a great deal that included The RAT, Mitre Box, Mortise Rail and cutters......................hes a real gentleman!!!!

I bet part of him is still kicking himself for selling it to me.....................ON YA STEVE:p

That is until he picks up his LN No4 Smoother n Chisels:D :eek: :cool:

Regardless theres pleanty a plans for making this stuff in the links posted throughout this thread. Oh yeah I think that its the latest version of the mortise rail that I've got.

More exciting though is that I recently noticed Godfrey himself advertising that he has developed a new Jig/Method of rounding tenons..................I can't find anything on the net about it yet BUT have noticed it advertised in some of the subscriptions I get ...............WATCH OUT FOR THIS ONE IN THE NEAR FUTURE!!!!

PS: When you gonna start posting Doug???....................;)

REgards Lou:)

[doug the slug]

PS: When you gonna start posting Doug???........;)

Ive nearly finished making my version of the new mortise rail. actually i started making the mitre box but i discovered that i can make the mitre box easier if i had a mortise rail.

I learned a lot while making the mortise rail. i went to great pains to make sure that the beds onthe top and bottom to which you clamp the timber were dead straight and square, meaning a lot of time on attention to detail. once i had it all dry-assembled it occured to me that the better way to do it would have been to cut every part of the beds 1-2 mm oversize cam the mortise rail into the 'rat and trim them flat and square using the 'rat. all i really needed to do was concentrate on keeping the vertical corners square. would have saved me a lot of messing around time

I think the mortise rail ive built is smaller than the standard one (it just fits between the right hand fence and the outermost cam position, and i intend to make a large version of the old style mortise rail for larger work.

Sorry no digital camera till Jools gets back from comm games

[CeejV]

NewLou,Doug

Well Done. I found your threads and have been enthralled by the reading. I bought myself a 'RAT some 6 months ago and have been using it ever since I . I am in no way an expert at it but as the manual even states, you sit there, stand there, scratching your head, thinking that you wasted your time, thinking of way to explain to SWMBO why the expensive piece of kit you purchased is not being used as promised then it all becomes clear. I unfortunately did not track my learning curve in any way. I will be taking a couple od pics of a crib I just finished for my unborn son using mostly M&T's made on the woodrat.

I built the quick and nasty mounting plate described in the manual which has served me well but now I see a need for adjustable height as I am building a loft bed for my son. The dust collection on the mounting I built does not work too well either and that is definately a huge hindrance. I have also found that having good lighting is a requirement.

I also think the 'RAT deserves its own section in the forum as the possibilities in using it are endless.

Through DT's are a cinch once you get the hang of the esat-west registration. Waiting for the delivery of the HSS bits so that I can finish a chest of drawers, also for my son/wife.

I have the big triton router but was thinking of buying another for use in the 'RAT as removing the TRITON from the table all the time is becoming a bit of a shchlep. Any views on a good router to use in the 'RAT besides the DeWalt?

Cheers,

Christo

[doug the slug]

I have the big triton router but was thinking of buying another for use in the 'RAT as removing the TRITON from the table all the time is becoming a bit of a shchlep. Any views on a good router to use in the 'RAT besides the DeWalt?

Cheers,

Christo

Hi Christo and a big welcome to a fellow "Ratter".

I have cut down the fence/circle cutter that comes with the big triton router and stuck it on the router mounting plate on the 'rat. takes 2 seconds to remove the router from the router table and mount it in the 'rat. takes longer to affix the dust collection.

[NewLou]

Any views on a good router to use in the 'RAT besides the DeWalt?

Cheers,

Christo
Welcome Christo:)

Is great to hear from another Ratter. I really do think its hard to go past either of the Dewalts. The Dewalt 625 is the Router of Choice for RAtters and has heaps of accessaries based round it from the craftsmans gallery (Probably the premiere supplier of aftermarket woodrat accessories in the world)

What ever you do decide on the best advise I can give is to get a Router that has a first rate Collet thats easy to remove and a decent plunge depth. I got a big Metabo 1812 exclusively for my RAt but have since discovered that the Collet is a right pain in the $%^# (Unless I'm doing something wrong)

I broke a dam bit trying to get the bit out of the collet cause it tends to get stuck there. I'm toying with various lubricants to try and alleviate the bits tendency to fuse into the collet sleeve making it a *$%@$_*@ to try and get bits out after use!!!!

REGards Lou

[Simomatra]

I broke a dam bit trying to get the bit out of the collet cause it tends to get stuck there. I'm toying with various lubricants to try and alleviate the bits tendency to fuse into the collet sleeve making it a *$%@$_*@ to try and get bits out after use!!!!

REGards Lou

Hi lou

I don't know if you have tried it or not but maybe the use of flaked graphite might be the answer to your lubrication problems

Once again great post Lou this RAT needs its own space on the forum definitely. Nice inputs from Doug and Christohttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

One of my favourite threads

Cheers Samhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif

[davo453]

interesting the bit stuck in the router problem, I never had this problem when I lived in Perth all 3 of my routers willingly gave up the bit.

But since moving 400km south to Albany all 3 refuse to give it back, a slight tap with a mallet or gentle pry with a screwdriver usually solves it but isn't ideal. My theory is that its surface rust as all my machines tend to develop more surface rust here than in Perth due to the higher humidity.

I haven't tried the graphite myself but will give it a go.

Cheers


Dave

[CeejV]

Welcome Christo:)

Is great to hear from another Ratter. I really do think its hard to go past either of the Dewalts. The Dewalt 625 is the Router of Choice for RAtters and has heaps of accessories based round it from the craftsmans gallery (Probably the premiere supplier of aftermarket woodrat accessories in the world)

What ever you do decide on the best advise I can give is to get a Router that has a first rate Collet thats easy to remove and a decent plunge depth. I got a big Metabo 1812 exclusively for my RAt but have since discovered that the Collet is a right pain in the $%^# (Unless I'm doing something wrong)

I broke a dam bit trying to get the bit out of the collet cause it tends to get stuck there. I'm toying with various lubricants to try and alleviate the bits tendency to fuse into the collet sleeve making it a *$%@$_*@ to try and get bits out after use!!!!

REGards Lou

Thanks Lou,

I was thinking more in the line of the 621. The 2HP should be enough to handle anything I can throw at it and it weighs in at more than a kilo lighter. There is also a plungebar available for it. Regarding more accessories, SWMBO will have a stroke if I spend anymore money.... took me long enough to get her to agree with buying another router. Have you purchased any worth wile accessories from craftsmans gallery? Need to consider this before forking out the cash....

Regarding the bit getting stuck in collet, I have also experienced this. I found it is the pitch from certain woods ( especially the flavour of teak we have for some reason) which causes it. Just keep the collet clean and no more stuck. I use mineral turpentine which works very well.

The mounting you built seems very intricate. Having the ability to adjust height etc. seems all worthwile but with limited shop space I need to really think this through. What is the longest length of timber you would reasonably consider tenoning using your setup?

Regards,

Christo

[CeejV]

Hi Christo and a big welcome to a fellow "Ratter".

I have cut down the fence/circle cutter that comes with the big triton router and stuck it on the router mounting plate on the 'rat. takes 2 seconds to remove the router from the router table and mount it in the 'rat. takes longer to affix the dust collection.

Hi Doug,

Did that soon after I read your thread on the 'RAT. Worked a charm..... SWMBO now needs more convincing that I need a new router. I do not know if you have had this but I find even with DC on the very fine dust which settles on the Triton's clear plastic thingy makes it hard for me to see and work the line. Using the circle cutter/fence thingy makesfitting and removing the Triton ten times faster. At last some use for it.

With the triton, have you had any sag in the mounting/base plate of the 'RAT? I am afraid that this might happen and living in South Africa, obtaining spare parts from WOODRAT.COM is quite tedious. I am however awaiting, along with the HSS bits, a delivery of the alu guide rails for added stiffness. Should put my mind at ease.:cool:

Regarding the height adjustment you have with the superjaws, what is the longest length of timber you would consider tenoning? I asked Lou the same question as I am still deciding which of your methods I will be employing in making my second mounting for the 'RAT.

Regards,

Christo

[CeejV]

interesting the bit stuck in the router problem, I never had this problem when I lived in Perth all 3 of my routers willingly gave up the bit.

But since moving 400km south to Albany all 3 refuse to give it back, a slight tap with a mallet or gentle pry with a screwdriver usually solves it but isn't ideal. My theory is that its surface rust as all my machines tend to develop more surface rust here than in Perth due to the higher humidity.

I haven't tried the graphite myself but will give it a go.

Cheers


Dave

Hi Dave,

My father-in-law stays at the coast so I know what the surface rust can do.... he uses paraffin wax religiously which works a charm. However regarding the bits getting stuck in the collet he does not have the problem. I stay many miles inland, 400 odd, and I am experiencing the same situation...... The summer months are very humid though (50-80%)but nowhere near the coastal humidity.

From what you have said I think the stuck in the collet bit is a combination of pitch and surface rust. Keep everything shiny clean and there should not be a problem. I would personally prefer to steer clear of any lubricants in the collet. This would make me tighten the collet more than necessary to prevent any slip which will reduce the life of all parts involved.

Regards,

Christo

[NewLou]

Having the ability to adjust height etc. seems all worthwile but with limited shop space I need to really think this through. What is the longest length of timber you would reasonably consider tenoning using your setup?

Regards,

Christo

Great to hear from you Christo :D

I think Shop space comes at a premium for all of us!...............So what ever you do try to come up with a versatile solution.

My Mounting Rig is designed to be able to cut stock vertically upto 2 meters. But I think I worked out shes good for about 87 Inches (What ever that is) I've set mine up exclusively for Shop Use.

I also strategically placed it next to one of my Workbenches so I could take advantage of the Horizontal realestate. The setup is not intricate& as you've guessed offers a lot of versatility.

HOWEVER you could get by by not even using T-Track by just having 3 separate mounting Points on your mounting board (WHich is esentially what I do anyway. The T-track simply makes things a bit easier to adjust.

I agree with you comments on the 621 which is what I'm using at the moment. The RAt throws up a lot a dust so its well worth considering a router with great dust extraction.

REGards Lou:D:D:D

REgards Lou.

[doug the slug]

Hi Doug,

Did that soon after I read your thread on the 'RAT. Worked a charm.....

when i did mine i made the boltholes to mount the triton circle jig thingy the right place for mounting my no 2 router the makita 3600 soi can unbolt the triton plate and mount the makita in its place if necessary


I do not know if you have had this but I find even with DC on the very fine dust which settles on the Triton's clear plastic thingy makes it hard for me to see and work the line.

thats a problem im still working on, there seems to be a little bit of dust cycloning around making it hard to see sometimes too. am considering removing the lower perspex shield and seeing how badly that affects dust collection.


Using the circle cutter/fence thingy makesfitting and removing the Triton ten times faster. At last some use for it.

yeah it wasnt a very effective fence/circle jig. it distorts when you tighten the mounting clamps on the router


With the triton, have you had any sag in the mounting/base plate of the 'RAT?.........I am however awaiting, along with the HSS bits, a delivery of the alu guide rails for added stiffness.

no discernable sag, but i already have the alu guide rails, came standard with my machine.


Regarding the height adjustment you have with the superjaws, what is the longest length of timber you would consider tenoning?

with my "wall section" mounted as high as it will go it will handle 1300mm or 1325 mm with 2 raising plates in place (height from floor to mounting plate). Because my setup is portable however i could hang it over the edge of a multi-story carpark and so long as you counterweight the back leg of superjaws i guess there is no theoretical limit. in practice however i would probably cut anything over 1300mm using the mitre box to hold the timber horizontally, using multistands to support the stock. But the problem there is that the timber moves, not the router so that would probably work up to 2500mm tops. anything longer than that and it router table and extension table

[CeejV]

Doug/Lou,

Thanks for the input so far. You have both been great sources of info to date.

Considering the points of discussion and only speaking for myself the use my 'RAT has had to date is mainly basic stuff. Considering the complexity of some of the work Mr. Godfrey does on the DVD and the speed/precision with which he performs the tasks, I have barely scratched the surface of that which is possible with the 'RAT.

I originally purchased the 'RAT as a means for me to facilitate furniture manufacture and the speed at which that could occur. As you might also know, in these economic times supporting a family with one paycheck alone is quite difficult. Earning extra income with that which you really love and not only do for the paycheck is a blessing. My eventual goal is to have my wife be able to work only half day (She'll go crazy staying at home all day) so my kids can have their mother at home arriving from school. So far the 'RAT and the rest of my machinery have paid for themselves and my rep in town is improving.... might be able to quit my job in a couple of years from now......... A couple of finger jointed jewelry boxes last Christmas got me quite a few brownie points in the family..

What are your views with regards to using the 'RAT in a commercial fashion and not only in building heirlooms for the home? The commercial aspect is the main driving force in me purchasing top tools such as these.

Regards,

Christo

[doug the slug]

Doug/Lou,

Thanks for the input so far...............What are your views with regards to using the 'RAT in a commercial fashion and not only in building heirlooms for the home? The commercial aspect is the main driving force in me purchasing top tools such as these.

Christo,

I prefer to restrict my comments on this and any other forum to what i can discuss from personal experience. i am not a professional woodworker so i cant speak from personal experience here. but i do regard myself as an above average amateur. the way i see it the hardest thing for a professional is probably marketing his wares, not making them, cos theres so much c rap out there in retail outlets and markets. ive seen excellent pieces at markets that the maker cant sell because theres no point in putting pearls before swine.

one day when i retire from my business i will probably see if i can make some money on the side from my hobby but i know that i will have to travel at least 200 km in any direction to find a decent size crosseection of population with the taste to appreciate the work i produce.

look at your own local market or potential market where you are, i cant do it for you

[NewLou]

Doug/Lou,

What are your views with regards to using the 'RAT in a commercial fashion and not only in building heirlooms for the home? The commercial aspect is the main driving force in me purchasing top tools such as these.

Regards,

Christo

The Rat is designed to be one of the workhorses of the Small commercial shop environment and once mastered its forte is repeatability and consistancy.

One of the Rats Strengths is its ability to do production runs in all most every Joinery configeration so can be considered 'perfectly' suited to the aspiring beginner with the 'great dream' of becomming commercially viable as a woodworker.

As suggested being a guru at marketing your wares is probably the key to success. If possible do a marketing course somewhere whilst mastering your ratting skills.

Also work on your Handtool techniques which will complement what you can achieve with the RAT. Although I love my WoodRAt its certainly not the be all and end all of Joinery SYstems.....................

A balanced approached to your skills both in Design; power n hand tool skills, finishing technique + Marketing Skills all need to be considered to make in the cut-throat world of commercial success.

..............................Hope this helps

Regards Lou:D:D:D