Cannot get a straight bevel to save my life.

[bueller]

I'm getting so frustrated and I need some help. My setup is as follows.

Vicmarc slow speed grinder + CBN wheel + Tormek BGM-100
Veritas MKII sharpening guide

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200509/60c27c3d8ef0166d83902855ab8fa907.jpg

The photo above shows what I'm dealing with. Plane blades, chisels, they all have this same angle and no matter what I do I cant get it straight. Wasn't that bothered on my chisels as its less noticeable but on plane blades it makes them almost impossible to sharpen properly.

I've tried dialling in the bench grinder mount multiple times but the problem persists. Am I stupid or something? I've read the manual for the Tormek and the Veritas multiple times but nothing jumps out at me and I'm running out of patience, can't get anything done if I can't get my blades sharp [emoji21]

Would you be looking at the Tormek or the Veritas? I'm out of ideas.

[bueller]

And the source of all my frustration.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200509/c321f88aab1417a46b6b53e55839dfa2.jpg

Just want to finish my shooting board, always stuff like this in the way.

[bueller]

I did notice one thing which might be giving me trouble so going to remount the bar. Turns out the plane jig manual mentions bottoming out the bar against the stone to check for square, the BGM-100 manual didn't mention this so I mounted the bar too far forward on the base and can't check this way.

Also noticed a comment about checking the micro-adjust is at 0 which was off by a hair so fixed that too. Bear with me, will report back later.

[Chris Parks]

If the blade has parallel sides I put it in the Tormek holder at the correct protrusion using the Tormek measuring jig and just nip it tight to hold the blade. Then using the side of the wheel I set the blade so it is flush on the wheel so the blade then has to be square to the face and then tighten the holder and begin grinding. This obviously does not work if the sides of the blade are not parallel.

[derekcohen]

I did notice one thing which might be giving me trouble so going to remount the bar. Turns out the plane jig manual mentions bottoming out the bar against the stone to check for square, the BGM-100 manual didn't mention this so I mounted the bar too far forward on the base and can't check this way.

Also noticed a comment about checking the micro-adjust is at 0 which was off by a hair so fixed that too. Bear with me, will report back later.

That is a starting point. Ensure that the rod is square to the face if the wheel. Also ensure that the face of the wheel is flat (see my article for the dangers when this is not so).

A second way to do this is place a square against the rod and against the side of the wheel (checking that the face and side are square, of course).

A third way is to use two squares: this is a variation of this method, below ...

https://i.postimg.cc/7P28FDhP/X8.jpg

Move the arm further back from the wheel.

Now imagine that you reversed one of the squares - the base of one is on the face of the wheel, and the base of the other is on the rod. The blades need to close up for the two to be square.

Edit: I use the previous version Tormek blade holder (#76). This does not have the radiusing action yours has (I have the 77 as well - not mad about it. I would rather add the radius by hand). I wonder if the affects the grinding? In any event, check that the fence inside the blade holder is square.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[bueller]

That is a starting point. Ensure that the rod is square to the face if the wheel. Also ensure that the face of the wheel is flat (see my article for the dangers when this is not so).

A second way to do this is place a square against the rod and against the side of the wheel (checking that the face and side are square, of course).

A third way is to use two squares: this is a variation of this method, below ...

https://i.postimg.cc/7P28FDhP/X8.jpg

Move the arm further back from the wheel.

Now imagine that you reversed one of the squares - the base of one is on the face of the wheel, and the base of the other is on the rod. The blades need to close up for the two to be square.

Edit: I use the previous version Tormek blade holder (#76). This does not have the radiusing action yours has (I have the 77 as well - not mad about it. I would rather add the radius by hand). I wonder if the affects the grinding? In any event, check that the fence inside the blade holder is square.

Regards from Perth

DerekThanks Derek! I've remounted ensuring the rod was true to the wheel but I'll check with some squares as well. I'm also realising now that I just want to rebuild the whole platform now that I know how to set it up better. Would like to move the BGM100 closer to the grinder as I find I get close to the end of the bar on wide blades and can actually see the bar drift ever so slightly if I put too much pressure on the end.

Going to mount it on some thicker ply and put bigger rubber feet on it too, the ones I bought are horrible and get really compressed under the weight of the grinder. I've just finished regrinding my LAJ blade so will report back when I've had a chance to sharpen. But already looks a mile better and could see the bevel being corrected square as I was grinding.

[riverbuilder]

I just do everything freehand on the belt linisher, seems to work fine so far. Maybe I’m just old school.

[Beardy]

I just do everything freehand on the belt linisher, seems to work fine so far. Maybe I’m just old school.

I was just thinking the same, only ever done it freehand

[derekcohen]

I just do everything freehand on the belt linisher, seems to work fine so far. Maybe I’m just old school.

Yes RB, I have done this for many years just that way, although my choice of poison was a bench grinder (hollow grind) rather than belt linisher (flat bevel?). I am not sure how this information aids the OP.

There is a HUGE advantage in the set up that the OP is trying fine tune. This is based on my own. The advantage is that it takes seconds to set up, and the hollow grind is so clean that free hand sharpening - and re-sharpening - is speeded up significantly. I often joke that one spends all the money to set up a system which causes it to be used less.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[bueller]

Okay no pictures but sharpened up my first blade after resetting the BGM100 and miles better. Still a tiny bit of a lean but I was able to sharpen the microbevel on my LAJ blade easily by hand. Thanks all!

[Chris Parks]

Did you use the side of the wheel to set the blade square?

[riverbuilder]

Yes RB, I have done this for many years just that way, although my choice of poison was a bench grinder (hollow grind) rather than belt linisher (flat bevel?). I am not sure how this information aids the OP.

There is a HUGE advantage in the set up that the OP is trying fine tune. This is based on my own. The advantage is that it takes seconds to set up, and the hollow grind is so clean that free hand sharpening - and re-sharpening - is speeded up significantly. I often joke that one spends all the money to set up a system which causes it to be used less.

Regards from Perth

Derek
on my linisher, I have the choice of 5 different diameter wheels, or a flat platen, so I can do hollow grinding if I wish, and I do. It’s handy for touching up gouges and things on the smaller wheel. The advantage, in my case, is that I can use the linisher for shaping metal, deburring metal, shaping wood, plastic,etc, sharpening drills,Knives, whatever, and it only takes seconds to change the belt to do any of these tasks. So I’m using one piece of equipment to do many different jobs, which is fiscally efficient in my view.

[Beardy]

on my linisher, I have the choice of 5 different diameter wheels, or a flat platen, so I can do hollow grinding if I wish, and I do. It’s handy for touching up gouges and things on the smaller wheel. The advantage, in my case, is that I can use the linisher for shaping metal, deburring metal, shaping wood, plastic,etc, sharpening drills,Knives, whatever, and it only takes seconds to change the belt to do any of these tasks. So I’m using one piece of equipment to do many different jobs, which is fiscally efficient in my view.

Not wanting to derail a thread but what type of linisher do you have?

edit for autocorrect misspelled

[bueller]

I don't have a linisher gents so kind of irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[riverbuilder]

Took a few reads there Beardy to get what you meant:U
I have the Radius Master 48, can’t speak highly enough of it, it’s great.

[derekcohen]

Okay, RM, the basic price on your linisher from Machinery House is $2400. This is not apples vs apples here. A CBN wheel-based machine is about $300-400.

I would LOVE a Radius Master 48! I could find many uses for it. However the CBN set up is better for the use it is put to here, that is, hollow grinding blades. For one thing, the CBN wheel does not wear, unlike belts. The set up never needs to be altered or adjusted, unlike the upkeep on any belt-based machine. The linisher would be very wasted on sharpening blades alone. What do you use it for?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[riverbuilder]

Okay, RM, the basic price on your linisher from Machinery House is $2400. This is not apples vs apples here. A CBN wheel-based machine is about $300-400.

I would LOVE a Radius Master 48! I could find many uses for it. However the CBN set up is better for the use it is put to here, that is, hollow grinding blades. For one thing, the CBN wheel does not wear, unlike belts. The set up never needs to be altered or adjusted, unlike the upkeep on any belt-based machine. The linisher would be very wasted on sharpening blades alone. What do you use it for?

Regards from Perth

Derek

I use it for everything, almost every day I would use it for at least a couple of different things. Fabricating metal, shaping wood , cleaning up fibreglass moulds, sharpening all sorts of stuff, I was given some micro fine belts, they feel like paper, and they sharpen all my filleting knives like a razor, as well as my daughter’s scissors she uses for making sails. I turn the wheels around and change a belt and I can sharpen tools or grind tools for use on the metal lathe. I can notch pipe to scribe fit to other pipe. I can use the slack belt part to sharpen the cutters for the dog clippers, It’s an incredibly useful machine, and whilst being more expensive, I think it effectively covers the jobs that several other machines could do. Yes, the belts wear out, but then I cut them up and use them for polishing turned pieces on the lathe, and fine fitting shafts and parts on the mill. With regard to your comment about hollow grinding, the belt linisher I have does this admirably, and that is why it is the preferred machine used by knife makers around the world.

[bueller]

Quick update - I remounted the jig and having a much better time with things. Still find it a bit finicky at times but its providing an acceptable result for primary bevels.

Actually realised a lot of my troubles were at the stones, watched and rewatched Rob Cosman's recent videos on sharpening and it cleared up a lot of problems. Biggest revelations were the ruler trick, even distribution of pressure and listening to the process. Once I started slowing down and listening to the stones I could tell when I was varying my pressure or wandering off my established bevel.

And actually cambered my first blade last night, took me most of the evening to clean up the 500 established bevels on the old SW blade and then camber it but I'm fairly happy with the result.

https://i.imgur.com/N2a1E4s.jpg

So much muscle memory involved though. Would have been quicker if I tidied up the primary bevel at the bench grinder but wanted to break in a new diamond stone. Now I need to camber all my other smoother and jack blades! Only 4 or 5 planes [emoji23]

[aldav]

That's a huge camber bueller. Don't think I've seen such a tight radius camber even on a scrub plane. Why would you want to set up all your planes with a camber like that? Am I missing something?

[bueller]

Trick of the eye? Looks a lot less cambered than my Veritas scrub blade.

https://i.imgur.com/JptkNb9.jpg

[rustynail]

Fluting?