gaboon ply adelaide

[shanefra]

hi, looking at building a eureka canoe and wondering where is a good
place to get the gaboon ply cheap:)... already looked at duck flat
tell me it aint that price everywhere. also can these plans be made
alternatively in hoop marine ply (i know its heavier:))..
thanks
shane

[bitingmidge]

Shane,

I don't know where in Adelaide, I got mine from Sharpe plywoods who are a Brisbane based company I think, but in the past have had it shipped from Marine Timbers in Melbourne as well.

Hoop ply is fine, even if it's 30% heavier, on a 25kg boat hmmm....8kg, that's less than the weight I've lost this year, or a dozen fewer beers you can carry! Have a chat, or email Michael Storer, I'm sure he'd be able to help you with an alternative supplier.

In the meantime, I've got my panels almost ready to glue, with a bit of luck will be coating them Sunday, ready to stitch next week...whoo hoo!

I hope you intend to log your progress on the Eureka Canoe thread!

cheers,

P

:D :D

[Daddles]

I'm going to upset Mik with this one because he likes gaboon, but the only stuff I've ever bought was crap. Now that might have been a sympton of the supply at the time and it might have been cured many moons ago, but I'm wary about using anything but hoop which I've found to be consistently good. If you must use gaboon, make sure you inspect it as you buy it - the crap I got had surface voids, inner voids, oil stains and splintered like the crap it was. My first lot was sent back and the second lot was better, but still featured a crap surface and inner voids (and yeah, it all came from the supplier you are probably thinking of because they are the only supplier of gaboon in Adelaide).

Hoop is freely available and you can make some decent savings if you order a pack of it through Home Hardware (yeah, they don't stock it but will order it). A friend has done that a couple of times now, got a good price plus, being an ordered in pack, has scored two free sheets of mdf used to protect the surfaces as well.

Richard

[Boatmik]

Hi Shane, Midge, Daddles

GAboon comes from a variety of sources and occasionally someone who has been sending it to Oz disappears off the scene and there is a mad scramble to find a new overseas supply.

I have seen some of the awful gaboon that Daddles is talking about. One good side, one awful side, whole sections of veneers lifting off.

It was certainly part of the supply when prices dropped suddenly some time ago.

So at least some of the cheaper stuff (and some of the more normally priced stuff) was of abysmal quality.

On one of my days up at Duck Flat I did hear Ted making some enquiries to one of the interstate cheap suppliers (after a customer revealed that they were going to get some gaboon at a cheaper price than Ducks could buy it wholesale). The story was that the interstate supplier had discontinued supplying the cheap stuff as it had so many defects.

Good gaboon is great stuff for boatbuilding - but at the moment I would tend to be quite careful about buying some sight unseen unless you can get some extra info (eg through this forum or through someone who has actually used the stuff.

As you are in Adelaide, Shane at least you can go up to the Ducks or whoever and make sure the sheets are OK - all the sheets I have seen recently have appeared quite OK, BUT I have not been looking that closely.

One advantage of Ducks is that they will supply the partsheet for the end decks and bulkheads if you want to fit them.

Hoop would be fine, Pacific Maple too. My own prejudice is to use gaboon - nice stuff to use and in small boats makes them really easy to lug around or on larger boats has a significant performance benefit.

Best Regards
MIK

[Daddles]

Ahh, poor old Mik. Comes on here being all calm and responsible and bastards like me are busy poking sticks at him :D

But yeah, we agree on the essentials - check the stuff visually before buying it. ;)

Something else to think about is the question of how much weight saving are you buying for your money. In a Mouseboat, you'd save stuff all, in a 26' sharpie, you'd save quite a bit. I don't know about the Eureka, but when you consider that hoop is usually about 2/3 the price of gaboon (and gaboon is about 2/3 the weight), you may find the question disappears :rolleyes:

Cheers
Richard

[shanefra]

hey thanks for all the responses...
my main worry was its my first real boat project
and being a tight #### didnt want to stuff up on $100+
sheets of ply...:)
soooo which way was the question disappearing daddles???
the tight #### way or the light weight way:)....

(golly tight forum it edits my butt...:))

[bitingmidge]

Shane,

You won't stuff it up! Just take your time and follow the instructions.

I'm guessing we'll be spending round $200 on epoxy and glass and bits, $100 on paint, varnish, brushes and sandpaper, and other bits, say $50 on timber, so a $40 per sheet saving on ply will cut the cost from $550 to $470, but you'll have a boat that looks half as good!

That's my thoughts.

I didn't get as far as I'd hoped (had to work on the weekend!) but the bits are ready to glue together tonight, so more pics coming.

cheers,

P:D

[Daddles]

, but you'll have a boat that looks half as good!


This part of Peter's post suggests that gaboon is better looking than hoop. It's not. It's darker and that might be your go, but hoop has a beautiful, creamy colour that is also very attractive. Get good sheets of both and dark vs light is the only real difference.

On price savings? $40 a sheet is about it, possibly more. That's a bag of poxy filler a sheet which in the question of funding a first boat, is worth thinking about.

Hoop is very easy to work with and gives nice clean edges when cut or edge planed. It also has a very clean, smooth surface. I've seen a loooootttttt of hoop through my own purchases but also through my TAFE course. It was of uniform quality.

The crap gaboon I got had a surface that was quite grainy and which needed a fair bit of sanding to get smooth. When cut, the edges were very rough and the edges did not plane as nicely as hoop does. I'm guessing from Mik's comments and predjudice that really good gaboon works as well as the hoop.

For a first timer, I'd go for the hoop unless you get some very good gaboon.

Don't be fooled by the standards stamps either - the crap gaboon I bought had the same, aussie standards stamps that the hoop comes with (can't remember what it is at this time of morning and before my coffee). All of the things I've complained about with the gaboon should NOT have been there under those standards :mad: Like MIK says, it all depends on the supplier, and quite often that's not the bloke you buy it from.

With all your timber purchases, the ONLY thing that matters is what's available at the time - believe me, that can change your thinking ... and usually when you're standing at the shop counter feeling like a goose :rolleyes:

Richard

[bitingmidge]

Oh alright, Richard!! You're right! I just like the "light mahogany" look at the moment! I also generally think the hoop is a bit more bland in appearance, but it'd look terrific with oregon and wrc trims.

The gaboon I've got for the Eureka isn't all that flash either I must admit, but it was $60 per sheet. Of course when I got it home and put a micrometer across it, 5mm was actually 3.9!! :eek: :eek: It's also got a few flaws in the surface which I'll bog.

It'll look good but!

As for weight saving, on a boat this size it's probably about the same as one coat of epoxy, but I'm just guessing.

Cheers,

P :D

[Daddles]

Oh alright, Richard!! You're right! I just like the "light mahogany" look at the moment! I also generally think the hoop is a bit more bland in appearance, but it'd look terrific with oregon and wrc trims.


The hoop I've used in the Yellowtail has a slight cross rings in many of the sheets and when sanded really smooth, it breaks up the pale timber and looks really nice - pity the boat is also full of filled screw holes and all the fillets are uncoloured poxy so I've no choice but to paint her (my excuse, don't ANYONE try to talk me out of it:cool: ). Hoop darkens quite nicely with a coat of epoxy but yes, the darker, slightly reddish colour of gaboon, with a couple of layers of poxy and then varnish looks very nice. Shane, have a look at Peter's (Midge's) Goat Island Skiff and you'll see how a basic looking boat can look very nice with just poxy and varnish (that boat's made with gaboon).

Incidentally Shane, if you're thinking of a bright finish and don't want the white of the poxy filler messing up the effect, add a pinch or two of sawdust to the poxy mix. It darkens the fillet and gets rid of that stark look.

A tip I've heard with nail and screw holes (and haven't tried) is to use a black filler, or a very dark one - under varnish and from a slight distance, the holes look like small knots in the timber.

Me? A coat of paint hides all my sins:D
errr, rephrasing that to ward off Midge, Christopha and the other Shane ... A coat of paint ON THE BOAT hides all my sins :rolleyes:

Richard

[bitingmidge]

Incidentally Shane, if you're thinking of a bright finish and don't want the white of the poxy filler messing up the effect, add a pinch or two of sawdust to the poxy mix. It darkens the fillet and gets rid of that stark look.

I'm going to use Boatcraft's filler brew this time, it comes out a kind of bland brown, but I think that'll be better than the bright white which stands our like the proverbial.

Cheers,

P (Gaboon is not a member of Zed's family)


:D :D :D

[Daddles]

I'm going to use Boatcraft's filler brew this time, it comes out a kind of bland brown, but I think that'll be better than the bright white which stands our like the proverbial.


I've used it with Bote Cote. Those fillets were some of the stickiest I've ever tried to work with - that might have been the Bote Cote, might have been the filler, but whatever, it was nowhere near as nice as working with West and their fillers. The Bote Cote fillers are very gritty compared to the smooth mix that the West fillers give. It also produced rock like fillets that are impossible to sand though I was able to get around this by smearing the fillet with neat Bote Cote (mix it up, smear it on with your finger, IN A GLOVE, to smooth out the surface) and I've done similar with a fairing mix (all 411 - see below).

At least with the West fillers, you can make a mix of 403 and 411 powders - the 403 being the glue, the 411 being the microballoons. The more more 403, the harder and stronger it is, the more 411, the easier it is to sand afterwards. Although I only glue with all 403 and make my fairing mixes with all 411, I do fillets with a half and half mix of the two. This makes a strong fillet that sands nicely.

Richard

[shanefra]

you guys are making it harder to choose:)....
one question thou... where do the two plys come
from.. i would suspect hoop pine would be a plantation
wood... eco friendly... but where does gaboon come from.
the name sounds like chainsaws rippin down rainforests to me:)
so to complicate it even further.... which one is more eco friendly..
also midge, is the gaboon your using stiff enough at 4mm...????

[Daddles]

Oh goody, another chance to have a shot at Midge:D

Hoop - plantation = eco friendly
Gaboon - chainsaws in precious, dwindling, rain forests = evil
:D

Actually, don't go quoting me on that. I'm not sure about gaboon but I think some of it at least is plantation based, but I don't know. If it's important to you, you'll have to investigate it more.

Richard

and you thought the hard choice was chosing a plan :D There is NOTHING Midge and I can't complicate for you :rolleyes:

[Boatmik]

Oh goody, another chance to have a shot at Midge:D

Hoop - plantation = eco friendly
Gaboon - chainsaws in precious, dwindling, rain forests = evil
:D

Actually, don't go quoting me on that. I'm not sure about gaboon but I think some of it at least is plantation based, but I don't know. If it's important to you, you'll have to investigate it more.

Richard

and you thought the hard choice was chosing a plan :D There is NOTHING Midge and I can't complicate for you :rolleyes:

JUST DO IT!!! :-)

Hi Shane,

What it comes down to is swings and roundabouts with a LOT of individual opinion. Nothing wrong with that either!

The problem with boatbuilding is "getting stuck". Before seeking advice you were all set up to start - knew where your were going. Now you are confused

If you continued with advice with any one of us three me, midge, daddles or Duck Flat you would end up with a fine boat that works well. And on the way you would start forming your own opinions about things. We all have experience with exactly the same materials, but our opinions differ - so the opinions have little to do with the materials and say much more about us.

Good gaboon is an excellent boat building ply - no voids and excellent surfaces
Hoop is remarkably consistent and good quality - but I don't like the way it chips out when you jigsaw it.

We all have different preferences and reasons for them. I use Bote Cote because over 20 years of using boats I have found out that it suits my methods - or is it that I have changed my practice to suit it!? I do like its non-waxing and very low susceptibility to moisture clouding - but because of this opinion I haven't used West extensively for quite a few years - so do I really know about WEST or not?

Basically you have to choose something and as a designer I don't care - so long as it is a good quality epoxy - Bote Cote, West, System Three and a few others. The poor strength and performance of the "economy epoxies" has been demonstrated in Uni of Qld tests - you really DO get what you pay for.

Duck Flat is one of the few places in Adelaide where you can buy stuff and get decent advice - there used to be a Bloke at Binks Chandlery too, but he seems to have moved on.

In terms of fact - gaboon IS a rainforest timber, but the trees don't grow in groups - they grow quite long distances from each other. So they pick one tree, cut it and often use helicopters to pull it out. The trees are really huge - and it is poor manufacturing economics to cut out the small ones - so the scene is really different from the clear-felling scenario. But this is information I chased up about 10 years ago.

On opinion - I think Varnish hides things much better than paint - sound, paradoxical but I can make a good argument in support. But does that make me right and Richard Wrong.

So - the moral of the story is - just bloody well get on with it and turn all this theorising ... into practice.

Best Regards

Michael

[Daddles]

On opinion - I think Varnish hides things much better than paint - sound, paradoxical but I can make a good argument in support. But does that make me right and Richard Wrong.


I'd like to hear that argument. I'd love a bright finish but aren't keen on putting my fixups on view that way (especially having owned a Heron that demonstrably should NOT have had a bright finish).

Richard

[shanefra]

geeez stop yellin mik:).... sometimes the best part of doing
something is carefully planing out all the diff aspects....
that being said im all for pushing ahead with this, cheque is in
the mail for the plans and now just gotta settle on the wood:)...

[bitingmidge]

also midge, is the gaboon your using stiff enough at 4mm...????
Shane,

Seems to be. I spoke with Boatmik this arvo and we reckon it's going to be fine. Hoop at 4mm would be stiffer too,

I intend to glass the bottom though.

It will also need a gunwhale clamped/screwed on temporarily while construction is happening to keep the sheer fair, but it all comes together in a rigid little package (I hope!)
Cheers,

P (Updates on the Eureka thread!)
:D :D :D

[shanefra]

ok... got the ply:)
6mm gaboon from baker moon in adelaide... good price, delivered when
they said they would and good overall service, i recommend them:)
the ply itself looks good, nice even surface got three sheets just in
case.. ok now off to get glass and epoxy... have settled on west system
because my old man has some west system bits and pieces lying around,
and the distys in adelaide have by far the cheapest price on glass tape
38c a meter as opposed to $1-2 dollars at other places... god im a tight
####:)...

[bitingmidge]

cool!

Better start updating progress on the Eureka thread eh?

Cheers,

P