Am I on the right track?

[Cal]

I have been looking at CNC Machines online over the last few weeks and would like your feedback/ input.
I make ukuleles and I am starting to get orders for them, I currently have five underway. I am looking at turning some of the hand work into automation via CNC such as headstock inlays and rosettes for sound holes to start with and then after getting the hang of it more complex work including fretboard radius and cutting and shaping necks.

The main thing for me is fine tolerance, it’s critical with the kind of work I do.

I have found there to not be many choices here in Aus for the price point I am looking at, nor a great deal of information or reviews of the equipment. I am probably missing something or don’t know where to look!

The Maker store has the Lead 1000x1000 unit, they recommend the Blackbox Controller and 1.5kw Air cooled Spindle with VFD. The whole lot comes to around $2500 with a couple of other bits.
Is this set up ok for what I want it to do?

Then there is the software side of things, without costing the earth each year in licensing to run it. Is Fusion 360 ok? I can see it costs around $600/year and at the moment it’s half price for the year if you sign up before 17th of July. I have seen a couple of YouTube clips of people using it and it seems straight forward enough.

I have a background in photography and know how photoshop and illustrator run, I know that CAD software is different but I think I could get the hang of it.

Do I need any other program to run between a program like Fusion and the CNC? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Is there something else that I should look at instead of what I have mentioned?

Hoping Eric and Andrew may chime in as I’m aware of both of your recent experience with CNC and CAD/CAM

Cheers Cal

[BoneInspector]

Hi Cal,

I've since had to move to Sydney for work and sold my machine locally so I cannot show it to you or demonstrate its use.

Far as I can tell most hobby units seem to have a precision of about 0.1mm, lead screw units are a little better but for your proposed use case I see no issue with a belt drive as you are profile cutting some relatively thin material.

The Lead unit from the Maker store looks fine, you will get a higher precision but slower unit. The one I had, xyz-carve goes for about $1,800 now excl waste board and uses a retail 700W plunge router as a spindle. Worked fine for relatively light duty stuff and I'd absolutely get another. I sold it rather than transport it because I don't trust removalists to transport delicate stuff without breaking/bending it.

Workflow is very important and you will need to experiment to see what works. Your steps to cut generally go like this:

Generate vectors/3d models - Generate G-Code - Send G-Code to Machine.

Each step can consist of 1 or more items of software, some software can do several steps.

Generate vectors/3d models
You can generate vector type file using whatever you like, including illustrator for profile work. You can also generate 3d models, stl or similar to do more 3d work.
Free stuff that works is Inkscape or Fusion360 with a startup license.
Vectric Aspire works for this as well and looks really good, just expensive.

Generate G-Code
Inkscape has a gcode plugin and would be sufficient for profile work.
Fusion360 comes with CAM capability. I'd think this is your best bet.
Vectric Aspire again.
It can get tricky as you need to know a few things about your machine to export the right g-code.

Send G-Code to Machine
I used Universal Gcode Sender to stream the info from the computer to the router, this will change depending on the controller you use.
The blackbox unit looks fine to me and looks like it uses Openbuilds Control software. I am sure it will work ok and looks like a similar program to UGS.
There are others I am sure but I never explored past the free stuff.

Other Considerations
Large is good, but will be less stiff. Not a real problem to cut wood if you are not too aggressive. Avoid machining metals regularly.
Mount it to a stiff workbench to assist.
Read this for setup stuff, invaluable and all very important for a properly configured machine. The site also has lots of other excellent stuff.
Squaring, surfacing, tramming - Shapeoko CNC A to Z (https://shapeokoenthusiasts.gitbook.io/shapeoko-cnc-a-to-z/squaring)
I used a simulator CAMOTICS to test my g-code, invaluable for identifying mistakes.
Hook it up to your vac system and buy a shoe for it to contain dust.

Hope this gives you some more stuff to go on with and I will, once I get a shed again be looking to make something nice out of those lovely bits of wood you gave me during the get together the other year.

Happy to try to answer any questions you have.

[ericks2]

Cal...exciting stuff using a cnc router. The guy who bought my machine makes guitars that look like vintage cars....he sells them all over the world. So using a quality cnc is crucial.
Problem is you pay for what you get...What size bed/work area do you require?

[Cal]

Wow! Thank you gentlemen :)

Andrew, I saw that you moved to Sydney! No mean feat I’m sure. Hope you have settled in well! Thank you for your reply also. I had a look at the xyz-carve and I think I like the idea of the Lead unit due to thicker material used in construction, the lead screw also adds to the precision (I know I’m fussy)
I’m really paining about using computers again, the shed is wonderful without it!
Fusion seems to be the way to go with CAM capability.
I will ensure that I build a suitable work surface for the CNC to sit on, 1mtr square should be ok to deal with.
Yep the shoe is a must, have a vac in the extractor shed too!

Thanks for your reply :)

Eric, I didn’t know you sold your CNC! I remember you showing me pics of that guys guitars. Wonderful stuff!

The bed is 1mtr square, I think I can get it all level at that size and lead screw not belt.

Are you building another one??

[ericks2]

You really should try an get something with ball screws. I am buying my 6040 back for now...need it to develop my 5 axis cnc driver unit. So for now i am doing electronic development for cnc. Maybe later buil a big machine. We also renovating a new property atm

[BoneInspector]

No problem Cal, been meaning to write this stuff down for a while so I don't forget it.

if you have the money you could do a lot worse than the lead screw unit.

I won't be getting too hung up on belt vs screw myself when I get my next machine.

[MrSlow]

To drive the xyz-carve in the workshop i.e. run the G-Code, I just use a Rasberry Pi 4 running UGS. The Rasbery Pi is in an aluminum case so I just have passive cooling which reduces any issues with dust. Monitor is a different problem however it is possible to KVM to the Pi remotely as I do have an ethernet point in the workshop.

The CAD/CAM work is done on my desktop in the house.

[Cal]

Thanks Eric, the Lead unit is lead screw and the improved tolerance over belt was why I was going down that path.

Andrew, thank you again.

I think that this information has cemented my choice, they are out of stock at the moment but due in this month so fingers crossed I will have it in August.

MrSlow, thank you too! I thought about running an extra conduit to the shed when I was building it and then decided not to. Hindsight is a wonderful thing! I have a Mac Mini that I may end up sticking in the shed with a monitor, or use a laptop. I have a good dust extraction setup and I may end up making a booth for the whole unit too. I don’t think I’m savvy enough with technology anymore to go down the path of setting up my own control system for it.
I’m hoping my 14 year old son will help me out with the technology a little :)

[BoneInspector]

I ran a fanless second hand netbook I bought for $100 with windows 10 that connected to the house wifi. A simple shared folder setup on the laptop allowed me to transfer the gcode with no issues and if all else fails there was usb.
The netbook streamed to the router controller and never gave me a problem.
The hardest part was remembering how to set up virtual serial port baud rates and google helped there.

I did try linux and got it working but I was never comfortable with that OS.

[ericks2]

Glad you found something that suits your needs :)
If you need any assistance let me know...

[Tonyz]

Cal, go on Facebook type in SANE makerspace, its a community workshop Armiger Crt Holden Hill, (take a packed lunch for your drive.
They have everything you can either visit to see what they provide or pay $19 week membership and almost live there. They have CNC machines, vinyl cutters, laser cutters woodwork machinery, metalworl/welding...you name it.

[Cal]

Thanks Tony,
After getting up for work at 2:30am during the week and travelling 70kms a day to get there and back, I would rather spend the time in my own shed than travel elsewhere to use someone else’s machine.
I do have an option to use another machine but would rather keep it in house if I can.
Thank you for your idea though! :)

[Tonyz]

Ha I keep forgetting Adelaidians still thick twice about distance. I used to be the same when I lived there, now pfft Lincoln -Adelaide <800k nothing to it.

No troubles though, just thought they might advise you better, but it sounds as your under control. show us the results...

[aarggh]

Hi Cal, getting into CNC is a slippery slope, it's very hard to not go all in once started.

That Makers one looks reasonable value, it should do what you'd want. Things I would definitely recommend though, go for the VFD and ideally a water cooled spindle over a router or air cooled spindle. Routers and trimmers do not last in CNC machines. You'd also need pretty good dust extraction so the rails and bearings don't gum up with this machine.

For designing and G-code generation Vectric Vcarve would probably be perfect for you, another 2.5D packaged that is quite cheap and very good is EstlCam, I'd highly recommend checking it out.

For the machine control I'm assuming the machine comes with Mach3? This is a one off $175 if it doesn't, or you could try LinuxCNC which is a free Linux based OS, but if you've never used Linux I don't know if I'd recommend it, running into a problem could prove quite difficult to fix for some.

A second hand Chinese 6040 would be an ideal machine if you can find one, these are actually quite well made and the better ones come with a spindle and VFD.

cheers, Ian

[ericks2]

Cal, have you now bought a machine?

[Cal]

Thanks Ian,
I spoke with the Maker Store today and the Lead machine is still around 6 weeks away, I was going to pair it with the 1.5kw spindle and vfd and black box controller.
I am also now looking at extending the Z access which isn’t a lot of money to add.
It isn’t going to be used with metal and I have a 3hp dusty with 150mm pvc all through the shed, set up with advice from BobL also a vac in the dusty shed.
I have taken on Fusion 360 which should do what I need.

[Cal]

Cal, have you now bought a machine?

Still waiting for stock to arrive, around 6 weeks away still :/

[aarggh]

I'd be careful about extending the Z very much higher. It's quite a low gantry, so as it is you'd get some degree of flex when machining, extending the Z will increase it as the spindle will have increased leverage to tilt the Z axis.

Ideally you'd want to increase the gantry height by doubling up on extrusion, or beefing it up with bracing of some sort.

It looks pretty easy to beef this model up anyway.

cheers, Ian

[ericks2]

Still waiting for stock to arrive, around 6 weeks away still :/

Could you use a 6040 size machine?

[Cal]

I think it’s a bit small for what I want to do

[ericks2]

okay :)

[Cal]

Well I ended up getting a Workbee as the Lead machine was nowhere in sight.
It arrived yesterday, I have some ukuleles to finish before I get to this, then the fun begins!
I opted for the water cooled 1.5kw spindle too.
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[aarggh]

Congrats on the new baby!

You will LOVE the water cooled spindle, they absolutely rock!

[Cal]

I hope I’m worthy :)
It’s going to be a steep learning curve!

[aarggh]

It's pretty much just avoid crashing the gantry at the ends of the travel, and make sure the VFD parameters are set correctly, which they usually are out of the box.

[Cal]

It's pretty much just avoid crashing the gantry at the ends of the travel, and make sure the VFD parameters are set correctly, which they usually are out of the box.

It come with cheap limit switches, will see how they go. If not there is always the emergency stop button :)

[aarggh]

You'll love using the machine, it will open up possibilities you haven't even thought of yet!

For the spindle, pick up a reasonably decent (something like this: Nulon Green Premium Long Life Coolant Premix 6 Litre | Supercheap Auto (https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/nulon-nulon-green-premium-long-life-coolant-premix-6-litre/384351.html?cgid=SCA010706#start=3)) bottle of radiator coolant instead of using water, don't dilute it though, use it straight. Keep it and the pump sealed in a non-see through tub away from sun and heat, and you'll never have to worry about rust in the system or cleaning the lines. But you need to ensure no dust/debris makes it's way into the tub to contaminate the coolant. Dust and exposure to heat/light are what will cause it to go funny.

I've been running my big machine that way the last 10 or so years, in a lidded tub with the tubes coming out the side, and a towel covering it to stop any dust/contamination as it's in a pretty hostile environment, and once a year or so I check the coolant, and it's like new and perfectly clean, I've never needed to top it up or change it yet since it I first set it up.

cheers, Ian

[Lappa]

Congrats. What size machine did you buy? I know you were looking at a larger unit.

[Cal]

Thanks for the tip Ian, great info! I have a new bottle of coolant in the shed too!

Lappa, thanks it’s a 1x1mtr kit. I figured it is going to be used for more than instruments and didn’t want to limit myself with a smaller footprint. I just have to work out where the heck to put it in my small shed!


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[ericks2]

Excellent...enjoy!

[Cal]

So I have started assembling the workbee and I have a question about the grounding wires. Do I need to use them or not? And where do I ground them? I have tested the earth on the spindle and it’s all good, I have not connected the shield to anything yet.

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[Lappa]

The shield should only be connected at one end. As long as one end is earthed all should be OK.

[Cal]

Thank you for your reply Lappa, will do as you suggest! I am also in two minds about using the pond pump supplied with the kit for cooling and wonder if there are better options available? I have seen others using a computer radiator with fans and pump. I’m a little concerned about the use of coolant and compatibility with the plastics/electrical in the pond pump long term??

[aarggh]

Those cheap little pond pumps are perfect and more than adequate for the task. I would never use radiators and fans to cool the liquid as you've then introduced a never ending need to clean all the dust from them. Those who have trouble with the internals I would strongly suspect have used water which is the absolutely worst thing possible in these spindles. Coolants are designed to work in all manner of materials with no ill effects for the life of a car, no different to a CNC spindle. Mine has been this way for over 10 years now and the original coolant is as fresh as a daisy, as I make sure it can't get contaminated as per my earlier post.

If you run around 6 litres minimum ( I think I maybe have around 12 in mine? So long I can't remember properly), you could just about run the CNC 24/7 and have no need whatsoever for any sort of external cooling, the natural heat disbursement of the coolant will be more than adequate to keep the spindle from getting more than just a little warm to the touch.

Obviously the harder you run the spindle and the length of running will dictate how much extra coolant you'd want to run to maintain a comfortable heat margin.

[Cal]

Thanks Ian, and after I posted that question I reread your comments on the pond pump. What you say about the radiator makes sense, no matter how much I use my dust extractor I still end up with dust in the shed in some manner. I will stick with the pond pump (it’s the submersible type, which is what I was concerned with being in coolant not the spindle itself) if yours is fine then it’s enough for me. I have 6ltrs of coolant here, I will have a look at containers and see what suits and see if I need more coolant then. I certainly won’t be running it flat out, it’s weekend use only at this stage. Thanks again!!

[aarggh]

Behold!

My patented and very profeshunal cooling system!

It's literally just a big tub at the back of the machine with a couple holes drilled for the hoses and pump power, and covered with a towel to block out any light (bad!) and contaminants (very bad!).

I think it's around 8 or so litres by the look, so may have evaporated somewhat, but is still spotlessy clean. I've got around 4000 or so .tap files on the control machine so it's done countless hours of machining over the last 10 years this way.

I see a lot on the CNC forums that people tend to over think many aspects of CNC'ing, I reckon it's an expensive enough hobby without adding unnecessary complications like fans that will clog up almost immediately. This way I really don't care if the tub gets covered in dust, the protective towel keeps the crap out. And if the submersible pump dies, the worst that should happen is a fuse blows.

[Cal]

Awesome Ian, I am at ease!! I have not read much on forums about CNC, I was looking on the weekend for wiring the spindle but worked it out myself and in the process saw a little about radiators, I didn’t do any real reading.
Everything else has been pretty straight forward with the setup, routing cables and coolant lines was a tight fit through the chains but it’s done. The vfd is straight forward too.
After spending my previous live with computers/photoshop and photography I think I should be able to handle fusion ok. If I run into trouble I will shout out for some more help!!
I still have ukuleles to finish and have been tinkering with the CNC in between shellacking! Once the instruments are done, I will dedicate time to this more.
Thanks again!!

[aarggh]

Fusions probably one of the more popular general packages, but the best IMHO being Vectric's Vcarve for 2.5D stuff like what you'd be doing (but expensive), or Estlcam which is also well suited as a Vcarve type package and is quite a reasonable price:

Estlcam: 2D / 3D CAM und CNC Steuerung... (https://www.estlcam.de/index.php)

[Cal]

$7 10ltr bucket with lid, .50c 5mm to 10mm elbow and a bit of heavy compressor hose I was saving for a rainy day and about 8.5ltrs of coolant and it’s ready to go!
Is there an inlet and outlet on the spindle or does it not matter which way it’s plumed?

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[aarggh]

Good going!

Usually if it matters the docs will say, but all the ones I own it doesn't seem to matter.

I'm assuming you rewired the plug end of the mains lead to get the cabling through the hole?

[Cal]

Cool thanks! Yes, the pump come as 240v with an American plug end on it, I cut it off and put a proper one on I had in my busy box. Dad was a sparky, and a bit of that has rubbed off on me so I’m all good with wiring too (just in case anyone is concerned) ;)

[aarggh]

That's what I thought!

I just thought I'd better ask because if it was at the pump end that would be bad! I've actually seen that a couple times on cnczone!

[Cal]

Oh, that would be bad!! No need to worry, I did it at the plug top! I know that they are sealed in the pump too, but you do have to wonder about how some people are still alive :)

[BoneInspector]

Cal,

Good to see the pics.
The metal on the workbee is certainly pretty thick. My next one will be a spindle but I've still a couple of months to go before moving (damn covid). Probably get another x-carve as I know the machine and it did all I asked of it.
Much more and I need to go for a semi professional unit, say a half sheet or similar.

I'm still not sold on water over a air cooled unit just yet, still to understand the advantages/disadvantages. I was wondering how the water is cooled and its good to see passive is fine. You could blow air over the bucket with a fan on a hot day to help the cooling, but dust. ..

Keep up the photos, always good to see some good work going on.

[ericks2]

Good progress....well done :)

[Cal]

Thanks Andrew, hope you get something up and running again. Are you still in SA or have you made the move to NSW?

I am not a fan of hot weather so cooling won’t be a problem because I just won’t run the machine when it’s hot. From what I have read the spindle is supposed to last longer as there is less impact on bearings with the reduced heat.

Thanks Eric! Has been a bit of a change from playing with timber, lots of reading and re reading of instructions! :)

[ericks2]

I am not too far if you need assistance...

[Cal]

I may hold you to that Eric! You are welcome to come visit anytime in any case!!

[BoneInspector]

Cal, made the move in jan last year. Caught in temporary accomodation for 2020 due to COVID so no woodworking for me. House marked basically closed shop where we are living.

I do move into my new home in a couple of weeks and best of all it has a shed, so 3-6 months from now I’ll be back into it.

still have the wood you gave me and earmarked it to carve out a couple of wooden spoons or similar.

[Cal]

I thought you had moved a year ago, hope you have an easy time of settling in to your new home. The COVID has certainly made life more difficult than anyone expected. Hobbies can wait, hope you get a nice size shed to work in!
I’m still working on 4 of the five ukuleles I started last year, and have two friends in Victoria chomping at the bit to get theirs.
Work got much more out of control (aus post) than I ever imagined, which put a strain on getting the instruments done.

See what this year brings for all!!

[Cal]

About a year ago I threw out an old computer tower, I called a shop today and they gave me a second hand box for free.
I figured that having 240v in a box was a good idea, I have not seen people put a VFD in a computer tower before. I had to modify the box a fair bit to get the VFD in comfortably and cut the shelf to let air circulation work properly and allow room for wiring at the base of the VFD.

So am I doing the wrong thing by having the VFD and power supply in the one box??

I’m not sure if I should place the Blackbox controller on top of the tower or cut a hole in the acrylic side of the tower and poke the side of the Blackbox through it for access to it’s buttons.

Please give me your input!!

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[Cal]

Added another vent above the VFD and started wiring it up.
I hope those with more experience with CNC stuff think this is okay otherwise I have wasted a lot of time :)

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[BoneInspector]

Looks fine to my eye, the equipment should have ventilation specs I. Instructions you could read about if you are concerned. My setup was different so I didn’t need a dedicated box.

- - - Updated - - -

Looks fine to my eye, the equipment should have ventilation specs I. Instructions you could read about if you are concerned. My setup was different so I didn’t need a dedicated box.

[Cal]

Thanks Andrew, I think there will be enough air moving through the whole thing. I was concerned that the power supply unit has exposed 240v connections and didn’t want to have that out in the open.

I posted the question on a Facebook page and people have said to keep the Blackbox controller away from the VFD due to electrical interference. Which is fine but I thought the shielding in every wire loom would have reduced reduced the risk some what.

[Hoey]

Sorry, i didn't ask for a picture. It's mobile phone and my touchy finger :(

[ericks2]

Cal,
When do you expect to start it up?

[Cal]

I have started the spindle up, still getting through the rest of the wiring for the controller. Maybe in a couple of weeks, I am trying to leave next weekend to get back to the ukuleles and get one closer to finished.

Once I have it wired up, you are welcome to come and visit with a file!!

[ericks2]

What software will you be using for the machine? I only know Mach3, Mach4 and UCCNC

[Cal]

I have fusion and I know nothing about it!! Have not even really looked at it.

[ericks2]

I don't mean your cad/cam...your motion controller/software?

[Cal]

Blackbox by open builds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ericks2]

Okay...i don't know them :)

[BoneInspector]

Mine used GRBL 1.1 and Universal Gcode sender. Lots of different controllers, all do similar things.

the Blackbox also uses GRBL 1.1 according to specs so UGS will send commands to it no problems and that software is free.

[steve r]

If you are using a black box, use the free software on the openbuilds site

[Cal]

Thanks Steve, yes I have just been looking at it. All of the software is going to take a bit of time to learn, I’m as green as cabbage with all of this.

[aarggh]

Fitting all the parts in a case shouldn't present any problem at all, and loads of CNC'ers do that, especially if you have properly earthed things. The issues with a lot of the Chinese machines and concern for noise was because of the usually crappy drive and I/O boards, and the non-existence of any decent earthing or noise protection.

The notorious "Blue Box" controllers are renowned for that and probably contribute to most of the stats re noise, although they are a garbage clone design that is a very poor implementation.

You could also use some clamping or ring ferrite cores for the spindle cabling, may not improve anything if everything is grounded in star fashion properly, but certainly won't hurt.

cheers, Ian

[Cal]

Thanks Ian, from what I have also read I have created a faraday cage of sorts for the VFD as it is surrounded by metal (not the front or back though) and there is plenty of cooling space around it too as the metal has loads of holes and I have created more at the base and top.
Everything is earthed well so far.

[ericks2]

Exciting stuff :)

[steve r]

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These are my two little machines

[Cal]

Very nice Steve, thanks for sharing! What sort of things do you create with them??

[steve r]

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[Cal]

Awesome Steve!!

[aarggh]

But where's the obligatory huge Mayan Calendar machined out of MDF?

[steve r]

But where's the obligatory huge Mayan Calendar machined out of MDF?

I will do that next

[Cal]

Wiring almost completed, all I have left to do is wire up the stepper motors and run a ground wire from the shielded cables of the stepper motors back to the computer tower main earth. Everything runs through the emergency stop button and out of the tower.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210115/f75620e529f16f24d8a14ea538dc3c26.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210115/3b22f3cfb3de2e754798e233d9fca252.jpg

[steve r]

Make sure that your spindle cables are not bundled with your motor and limit switch cables.

[Cal]

So do I take the spindle lead out of the drag chain too?

[steve r]

I have mine zipped tied to the outside of the drag chain, it stops interference with the motors

[Cal]

Hmm, I find it surprising that it makes that much difference. Are all the wires in your run shielded and grounded? Including the spindle lead?

[Lappa]

I can see separation may be required but I can’t see that running it in the chain vs running on the outside of the chain would be that much different?
We used to make sure power cables for 2 way radios and their antennae cable in particular, sound systems power cables etc where not running along side vehicle PCM wiring due to the EMI and RFI interference problems even though the PCM sensor wires were shielded. The specification from most vehicle manufacturers was to avoid wires running parallel and a minimum of 200mm separation (if I remember correctly - can check Monday) if that was not possible, but only short runs. The power cables for those accessories were generally not shielded.
I’d be interested in the reasons why that small separation makes a difference.

[Cal]

Steve, I would think that coiling leads at the end of their run instead of cutting them to length would cause more issues with EMI than the difference of lead in or out of the chain. My dad who was a sparky all his working life taught me at a young age never to coil wiring due to creating an electro magnetic field. And the less distance there is less current drop, however small it may be.

[aarggh]

Almost every Chinese machine I've seen, including all the ones I've owned, have always had all of the cabling bundled together along with the coolant lines. Noise was a massive problem with a lot of the clone 6040's due to the crappy "blue box" controllers, but that was because of a lack of earthing, and also inherently bad design limitations and deficiencies more than anything else. A decent star earthing/shielding pretty much solves most if not all noise issues for small hobby type machines.

Using a non-brushed motor for a spindle also helps a lot. Brushed motors generate so much noise.

[BoneInspector]

Cal,

I’d suggest you leave it and see what happens first. No point trying to fix something that might not happen.

just be on the lookout for interference during the beginning.

[Cal]

Thanks Andrew, yes at this stage I will wait until I get it fired up. I can reroute if needed.

[aarggh]

One thing I'd suggest if you haven't already Cal, is to bolt the machines frame to the table as these machines don't have a lot of mass to dampen vibration. So the more rigid the machine is, the less vibration and the better the finished product will be.

Doing this can also help with missed steps, as this can occur if the machine's vibration starts getting into a "rhythm" with the machining, opposing the steppers movements.

[BoneInspector]

I clamped mine down with some wood that was cut to fit the profile. Preferred that to bolting it down as the machine was untouched. Concept was the same.

[Cal]

Yes, I used t nuts and right angle brackets to mount it to the table.

[Cal]

Well it runs! I have to work out how to control the VFD correctly, I can start it using commands but can’t stop it. I have to hit the emergency stop button. Need to do some more searches for the solution on the net.
Still need a spoil board and need to work out how fusion works with the open builds software. I will work out where to place computer etc once I can control everything.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210126/a87c5df9ee1efa1121fd90c6e1d1ae5c.jpg

[steve r]

You just save your tool path as GRBL mm or in in fusion and open it the OB control

[Lappa]

Do the setup commands in this link help?

Spindle / Relay Control - M3/M4/M5 * Issue #949 * grbl/grbl * GitHub (https://github.com/grbl/grbl/issues/949)

[steve r]

Openbuilds forum, will help. Can you start and stop the spindle by the top row of buttons in the openbuilds control software, also you have to change your lower speed to 0 in the GRBL settings 2nd or third tab the same place you reset your sizes etc. you will find that the spindle max and min is the same so off doesn’t equal zero

Search Results for Query: Black box | OpenBuilds (https://openbuilds.com/search/101504416/?q=Black+box&o=relevance)

[Cal]

Thanks guys. Prior to my last post, I had a look on the net and found out the M3 s1000 code to start it and tried the m5 or m3 to stop it without luck. I haven’t tried m3 s0 or any other combination yet.

I will have a good read through what you have both linked and see what I come up with.

I will say again that I have little to no idea what I’m doing with this side of things, so your help is really appreciated!!!

The hardest part I have found with the computer side of things is that there are so many combinations of what people can and do use as far as programs and controllers and all the different VFD’s available across the globe, there is no one solution for any given issue.

I’m not in any way upset about it, just trying to understand and learn about it.

[ericks2]

Cal, remember if you need help i can pop by and give you a hand...need an excuse to take my bike for a ride :)

[Cal]

Eric, will send you a pm!!

[Cal]

Finally got back to the CNC, I have leveled the spoil board! Took over an hour to complete, I don’t know if this is normal or not 720x720 square.

14 February 2021 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/ApIHACEvC18)

14 February 2021 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/cxfRNtTXa7o)

I trammeled the machine prior to leveling.

[aarggh]

Hi Cal,

Looking at the video, you could have easily doubled the feedrate at least without any issues, especially as you weren't cutting very deep.

MDF is a particularly abrasive material, you want to cut through it pretty much as fast as you can, otherwise the heat buildup can be very detrimental to the cutters. Good sharp cutters will just power through MDF so you can be fairly aggressive.

One thing you may possibly want to consider down the track when you need to resurface again, is to have your machineable area a little higher, instead of lower, than your spoil table (glue a sheet of MDF on top), this will allow you to use the machine as an open ended router for longer material by just packing up the ends for extra support when machining.

For my machine when I changed the aluminium profile on the table, I glued MDF strips the exact size of my machineable area so I can do longer stuff, and machine sections. It's super handy!

cheers, Ian

[Cal]

Thanks Ian, it’s all a new challenge. What you say makes complete sense though, I will have to work out how to do that!
My next task is to make a mount for a dust shoe, I have the file and the acrylic, just need to learn how to make it.

[aarggh]

You can always square the inside corners of the machined area and cut/glue a sheet of mdf to that, and then run your surfacing code again.

That's the beauty of spoilboards, you can just keep gluing new tops over the old one!

With the dust shoe, I don't know what sort of design you have, but the mistake I made with the dust shoe I made early on, was to make the shoe too large a volume area. As I ran it with my extractor via a Dust Deputy (couldn't recommend these enough, they are great!), I didn't want the extractor making a howling noise for many hours on end, so I ran it at around 50%, but the volume in the shoe was too large for the suction, so a lot of stuff didn't get sucked up.

Ideally, make the area surrounded by the brushes as small as possible, but not so small the brushes actually reach the cutter in use. And the shorter the brushes the better.

Although a 100mm port, this one is a really good general design that could be changed to a 50mm/30mm port:

1x CNC Router Dust Shoe for 80mm Diameter Spindle | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/401932707778)

cheers, Ian

[malb]

I looked at your video of machining the spoil board, but my experience is limited to commercial high power machines (8KW spindles and 1KW AC servo motors) so may not be appropriate for your situation.

Our machine was a fully vacuum table system so the spoil board was basically the whole bed size, with the machine working area slightly larger to ensure that bits could overhang the board and not leave unlevelled radii at the extremes of the board. Hence flat surface across the entire bed area, rather than the step that you ended up with. May not be totally practical for you as you need to use fasteners to secure the spoil board. Maybe a 2 layer system with an oversize base board fastened with your preferred hardware and another board covering the machining area fixed with double sided tape on top of that, so that when you face off the board, you don't leave unfaced areas to interfere with mounting work.

With the vac system, we took 0.5 mm of both faces of a new spoil board to remove the skins, the board is then porous and becomes a vacuum diffuser. After that we set bit protrusion into the spoil board to be 0.1mm for cutting out and slightly deeper for through drilling, and set our skimming (relevelling) depth to about .25mm. We skimmed at startup each morning and only during the day if we had enough tracks in the spoilboard to cause vac leaks. For our commercial machine, a skim was a 2 minute job for a 2450 x 1850 table area, using a 80mm diamond tipped bit, shallow depth (0.25mm), and quite high feed rates (about 3x that used for through cutting with 3/8in compression bits). If your hardware can handle it, I think you could increase your feed rate a fair bit with a shallower cut and cut down you skim times a lot.

[Cal]

Thank you both for your words, very helpful indeed! I will set up another board at some stage, I will leave this one on for now to learn on as I won’t be cutting anything big to start with. I have another 1 1/2 sheets to play with as I expected a learning curve. As this was my very first visit into the CNC world I wasn’t sure what feed and rpm to set, the default was 800mm/min and 1000rpm, I had a couple of goes at starting the run and had to work out the direction of cut, cut depth and width and length of cut. I ended up changing it to 1200mm/min and 1500rpm. I’m still trying to finish off a few ukuleles so while glue was drying I turned my attention to the CNC.

The dust shoe I was aiming for is made from acrylic to suit 100mm duct, I have the brush already and it will hook into my 3hp extractor and 150mm ducts, the shoe is not over sized for the application.

I think that the holding hardware will vary due to what I want to cut, some material will be 2mm thick and ukulele shaped, really small pieces of shell for inlays, 18mm ply or mdf and solid timber of various thickness and size along with acrylic. I will have to work out what hold fast suits best for each material.

I really do appreciate everyone’s input, it’s a huge help in this rather large rabbit hole!!