Abrasives: type and grits for turning?

[LanceC]

The only abrasives I currently have are several pads for my RAS (running low), and a roll of paper backed 320 and 400 grit. My understanding is that I need a mesh/cloth backed abrasive for sanding on the lathe.

Can anyone suggest what range of grits I should be buying, and any particular type/brand of sandpaper?

[Bushmiller]

Lance

In the coarser grits I use old belt /linisher sanding belts as the first stage of sanding. These are typically anything from 40g through to 120g. I use emery cloth type strips from there up and finally use anything up to 400g in ordinary sandpaper.

I think is relevant to note that good woodturners aim to keep sanding to a minimum both from a time aspect and the potential for dust irritant. Needless to say I find myself using a lot of sand paper, which is a direct consequence of not having enough skill in this department, using timbers more prone to tear out and not having my turning tools sharp enough. :(

I get by.: Just.

Regards
Paul

[Colin62]

Abranet. It’s wonderful stuff, not cheap but it really works and you don’t need a lot of it. I usually try to start no lower than 120 grit, 180 or 240 if I’m having a really good day or using really co-operative timber, going up to 400 or 600. I sometimes touch up with a bit of 1000 grit emery paper. I’ve never seen Abranet above 600 Sold here locally but you might be able to get it there. It probably makes no real difference, but it’s what I’m used to doing.

[LanceC]

Thanks Paul and Colin.

[BobL]

Using Abrasive papers on lathes are a major source of fine dust. Even though I don't always practice what I'm about to preach I do know that improving tool sharpening will drastically reduce the need for abrasives.

A few years ago I attended a Turning Convention and watched a master turner turn two goblets in front of a 100+ audience. Lots of beaut shavings but it was clear he was making very little dust and only using abrasive paper for about 30s when he finished each goblet. For dust control he was using a Room Air filter (RAF) down behind his lathe. I was there to present my usual spiel about dust and I decide run my particle collectors while he was demonstrating. OK he was starting from a substantially prepared blank and he was often stopping and commenting on what he was doing but when he finished the room air was MUCH cleaner than when he started. Razor sharp tools and minimal abrasives made a bit difference.

As for me I start with about 120 or 180 and work up from there to at most 320.
I also occasionally hold the work piece still in the lathe and run the paper long the grain, intermittently rotate the work around by hand. I find this removes some bigger scratches faster than just sanding by rotating the work.

[brainstrust]

I envy those who don't need to sand much :q

[tony_A]

Being an occasional turner, my skills aren't good enough to avoid using sandpaper. I use an inertia or friction sander (search google for examples) where I can and find it generally does a better than a regular sandpaper.
If using regular sandpaper I find that the cloth backed stuff is good on the inside due to its flexibility but most sorts work on the outside.
Prior to sanding I like to use either a negative rake scraper or sometimes a shear scraping cut to smooth out tool marks. Do what ever you can to reduce sanding, I hate sanding. There are videos out there on these techniques, look for robo hippy, Stuart Batty or Cindy Drozda, all are professional turners.

[brainstrust]

as much as i hate sanding for us that aint so good it is quite a life saver or bowl saver in my case! Just par of the course when you are average :U

[mature one]

I agree with Colin and use Abranet and find that 120 grit down to 420 does a top job and if using EEE the finish is tops.

[tony_A]

Just par of the course when you are average :U

Its a simple law of mathematics that most of us have to be average

[BobL]

Its a simple law of mathematics that most of us have to be average

This is not really correct.

What is more correct is provided the distribution is normally or evenly distributed. about half of us will be "above average" and half will be "below average" but not that many will be average.

But even this is not often correct. An example of this is Australian household income. About 65% of Australian households earn below the average household income and 35% earn above.

A more extreme example is when the distribution is what is called bimodal when there may be no-one or very few individuals that are even around the average.
The average supporter at a collingwood/carlton match with equal number of supporters of each side present is not "half collingwood/half carlton" supporter. Although there will usually be some that don't support either team present we would maybe not consider them "average" :D

[Bushmiller]

This is not really correct.

What is more correct is provided the distribution is normally or evenly distributed. about half of us will be "above average" and half will be "below average" but not that many will be average.

But even this is not often correct. An example of this is Australian household income. About 65% of Australian households earn below the average household income and 35% earn above.

A more extreme example is when the distribution is what is called bimodal when there may be no-one or very few individuals that are even around the average.
The average supporter at a collingwood/carlton match with equal number of supporters of each side present is not "half collingwood/half carlton" supporter. Although there will usually be some that don't support either team present we would maybe not consider them "average" :D


Ooooops! Perhaps we should be using "mode."?

Regards
Paul

[BobL]

Ooooops! Perhaps we should be using "mode."?

Regards
Paul

Yep, better than "average" (mode, the most common value in a set of data) but even then, on a spectrum of
"Haven't got a clue" to "master craftsperson", the most common value is likely to be "Haven't got a clue".
Even within wood workers the most common value is likely to be at the weekend warrior end of things

[Optimark]

I too am a fan of Abranet, it works very well and within reason, does not clog up. I run from 80 grit through to 400. I also have a simple holder made out of foam and a cheaper version of Velcro, works very well for doing hand sanding over non-flat surfaces.

I also have a set of normal sandpaper in 50mm diameter which I use with either my cordless drill or a hand held device powered by the movement of the wood. This is quite useful for the innards of bowls, as well as their exteriors.

With spindle turning, I mostly run the lathe in reverse for sanding. The dust pretty much runs straight into my dust chute.

Mick.

477108477107

[Warb]

A few years ago I attended a Turning Convention and watched a master turner turn two goblets in front of a 100+ audience. Lots of beaut shavings but it was clear he was making very little dust and only using abrasive paper for about 30s when he finished each goblet. For dust control he was using a Room Air filter (RAF) down behind his lathe. I was there to present my usual spiel about dust and I decide run my particle collectors while he was demonstrating. OK he was starting from a substantially prepared blank and he was often stopping and commenting on what he was doing but when he finished the room air was MUCH cleaner than when he started. Razor sharp tools and minimal abrasives made a bit difference.

Just out of interest, and I'm asking this as a serious question not for laughs, how much fine dust would 100+ pairs of lungs filter out of the air?

[wood spirit]

Have a box of random sandpaper under the lathe -cloth backed lasts longer -but all work, Cloth backed particularly when under tension - rather than holding by hand. Must say I do more sanding than most as have no really good turning tools (Don't do enough to justify the price. Mostly scrapers and other things homemade -Oh and those NASTY Chinese things which are as crap as would be expected.)

[powderpost]

The only abrasives I currently have are several pads for my RAS (running low), and a roll of paper backed 320 and 400 grit. My understanding is that I need a mesh/cloth backed abrasive for sanding on the lathe.

Can anyone suggest what range of grits I should be buying, and any particular type/brand of sandpaper?


I use grits from 180 up to 400 and from 400 up to 1200 in the finishing stages. The finer grits are usually wet & dry, paper backed abrasive and used wet with water in the polishing processes. The coarser grits are cloth backed and used, folded three times and will allow he natural flexibility to do the sanding, not tightly folded and used under hand pressure. the brand doesn't concern me. All abrasives should be used gently and not allowed to get hot. This softens the adhesive that holds the grit, thus letting the grit come loose. Resist using a pad inside the abrasive, "To stop burning your fingers", again let the natural flexibility of the abrasive do the work.


Jim

[Mobyturns]

I agree with Jim's comments entirely and will add the following,

Let the tool do the work, when its "blunt" exchange it!

Sandpaper or more correctly "abrasives" are simply another tool. Like bowl gouges where there are benefits in using a particular grind & profile for some tasks or problematic woods, there are benefits in using a particular type of abrasive in various applications.

Dry woods, sand differently to wet or oily woods, so there are benefits in using "open" abrasive products, or "spaced" abrasives (i.e. Astradot), or to wet sand in some applications.

The backing medium and weigh of the medium, i.e. cloth, paper or the newer generation "abranet" style abrasives definitely have benefits in certain applications.

For maintaining the sharpness / crispness of fine detail in spindle turning, say lidded box finials etc, a medium weight paper backed abrasive will offer far better results than a cloth backed abrasive, however the cloth backed will be a better choice for most bowl turning applications.

Finally, size your abrasives for the task, don't expects a scrunched up full sheet of sandpaper left on the lathe bed, or floor covered in all sorts of crap to perform well. I do a lot of small fine spindle work, so I cut full sheets of paper backed sandpaper (SIA) to 30 x 30 mm squares fir small items, or into four strips across the sheet for sanding spindle turnings that I want to maintain a true cylindrical or conical surface i.e. minimalist pepper mills. I find that cloth roll abrasives do not perform as well as the medium weight paper backed abrasives in that situation.