Dust Death

[Glue and Screw]

G'day to all.

I'm only a new member but I have found this site very informative.
I have worked in this industry for about 22 years for others and now for myself.
What I would like to know. Does anyone know first hand of anyone becoming very ill (nasal cancer) or dieing from wood dust related issues? I have used all solid, particle, melamine, mdf and others and did not always find it practical (still don’t) (also too lazy) to wear the appropriate mask (I know I'm not on my own there).
I have heard Chinese whispers but nothing first hand.
I would find any of your responses interesting.

Cheers
Marty

[Pat]

Marty, the hosts of the BB have a good list of "badwoods" (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/woodstuf.htm) and the Victorian Woodworkers Assoc (VWA) "Dangers of Wood Dust" (http://www.vwa.org.au/des_dangwd.htm).

I know it is a pain in the freckle to mask up, but I now do after coughing up red sputem, only a very small amount but was enough for me to reach for the blessed mask. For more info, I suggest that you consult your local GP, they maybe able to advise you on the medical side.

[Greg Q]

[QUOTE=Glue and Screw]G'day to all.

Does anyone know first hand of anyone becoming very ill (nasal cancer) or dieing from wood dust related issues? I have used all solid, particle, melamine, mdf and others and did not always find it practical (still don’t) (also too lazy) to wear the appropriate mask (I know I'm not on my own there).[/COLOR]

Just for kicks I googled "wood dust + nasal cancer" and had a brief read. Scary. I think I'll put that cyclone/micron filter project back on the front burner.

Greg

[Glue and Screw]

Thanks Guys

I dont dispute any findings its just I have not come accross anybody first hand. And I have worked with tradesmen of all ages.
I know saws are dangerous because every second tradey you meet (me included) has the scars or missing bits to show for it.
Being 38 now, is it something that when I get to 60 (fingers crossed) I will look back and regret not taking that extra time.

Cheers
Marty

[DPB]

Anecdotal evidence is only that - not very scientific.

However, my father was an avid woodworker. He never took any precautions with wood dust, other than using a broom to sweep dust and wood-chips into a disposal bin.

After many years of woodworking he developed a continuous cough. Sometimes he spit up sputum tinged red with blood. He frequently found blood in his nasal passage when blowing his nose.

After much urging from the family, he went to the doctor for a series of tests. They found small tumours in his lungs which were supposed to be cancer. Eventually, he took a full treatment of chemo-therapy (which in itself almost killed him).

Surprisingly, he did not die of cancer, but during a heart operation to repair an embolism in his aorta.:(

Who knows? His cancer may have been the result of inhaling wood dust, or from working aboard old WWII Canadian Destroyers during his war-time service. These ships are now notorious for the amount of asbestos used in their construction. Ironically, he never smoked a cigarette in his life - for all the good that did him.

[Greg Q]

As DPB says, anecdotal evidence is useless when it comes to gauging
risk. You would have to know a few hundred woodworkers for a very long time to see individuals get ill. Yet the dangers are real according to the
studies. Every one of those dead guys had a name.

Greg

[AlexS]

Did a woodwork course with an OH&S doctor who said that while cabinetmakers were well over-represented in nasal cancer stats, there was a very low incidence of this cancer.
This was only nasal cancer we were talking about, and a low incidence doesn't help you if you're one of those who gets it.

[E. maculata]

Been watching this discussion and decided to add my 2 cents worth, we're informed that within the hardwood industry (sawmilling & logging) the incidence of nasal polyps where 1 in 10,000 p.a and we have the highest incidence of any group, having stated that I personally know three sawyers whom have had them removed, generally they make their presence well known long before becoming life threatening.
The old op was lift yer face off and scrape & cut them:eek: , the new one involves miniature snippers with cameras & lasers:) .

[Daddles]

My late uncle died in his late fifties from cancer brought on by working in a dusty environment. His father and then he owned a joiner's shop and it was the sawdust that got him. He fought it for ten years, multiple operations on his nose and cheeks - eventually nearly lost an eye as the socket had caved in. In the end, it didn't matter because the cancer killed him.

Richard

[Barry_White]

I would be more concerned about contracting emphasemia from excessive wood dust. I don't know which would be worse that or cancer.

[Toymaker Len]

I had two uncles die of emphysema. One a printer and one a baker, both working in dusty environments and both smokers. The last ten years of life was hell for them. It still amazes me that people will work in dust with no protection. But then I saw the old boys dieing when I was a child and it made a lasting impression.

[antisense]

The CFMEU has guidlines for working with mdf on their website. http://www.cfmeuwa.com/buildsafe/library/safework/hs/mdf720

Not only does all cutting have to be done in an air tight room, they also insist that all dust/waste is double bagged prior to disposal.. Man... to think I just saw this stuff in my shed and then sweep it up wearing just a face mask.

I hate to think what all the resident dust in my shed is doing to me :eek:

It's so freaking dumb that JH can't just make it outa something other than formaldehyde. I guess all the other methods just cost more money.. :mad:

Shame really. Mdf is sooo cheap and usefull.

[Greg Q]

They can if they were forced. MDF is going to be the asbestos of the new century. If dust related cancers are like other environmental ones, the first cases should appear 20-25 years after exposure.:(

There are non-formeldahyde bonded MDF products elsewhere in the world, and there may be one here too, just not advertised widely:mad:

[rrich]

Here are a few references.

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/wooddustallsoftandhardwoodsexceptwesternredcedar/recognition.html

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/wooddust/recognition.html

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/sawmills/dust.html

The last link has a link "Hazzards and Solutions". This offers some rather interesting solutions to typical dust hazzards in a wood shop.

[dan_tom]

Hi Marty

This is particular concern to me too, not just because I work at the Queensland Cancer Fund, but because I am a woodworker who hates wearing a dust mask too!! :p I'm looking around for one that's not so hot and annoying at the moment. Blowing out red boogers is not a good look, but it makes you realise where they get wood putty from.:D

I had a scan around and found that there are just as many papers on allergic contact dermatitis in the medical journals as there are describing incidences of cancer due to saw dust. The obvious one is lung cancer, (American journal of industrial medicine. 2005 Apr; Vol. 47 (4), pp. 349-57) but there are others below:

A recent paper describes the occurrence of neoplasms (cancer), particularly nasal cavities and paranasal sinus tumors, which have been associated with exposure to wood dust. The paper is entitled "Cancer and wood-related occupational exposure in the Amazon region of Brazil." published in Sept 2005 in a journal called Environmental research. (2005 Sep; Vol. 99 (1), pp. 132-40).

There is another on gastric (ie: stomach) cancers and oesophageal (throat) cancers - it was a Swedish study that followed 260,052 men from 1971 through 2000. They found that wood dust may increase the risk of cardia adenocarcinoma (Cancer causes & control : 2005 Aug; Vol. 16 (6), pp. 755-64).

Another study from Canada suggests an increased risk of brain cancer (Journal of Occupational & Environmental Medicine; Jul2005, Vol. 47 Issue 7, p704-717, 14p).

The more obvious one that many people ignore, is that smoking causes cancer more than any wood dust ever will. Doesn't matter if the packet that you smoke from is white, blue, red or green - they are all toxic and none are the healthier choice. Just means you're more likely to get cancers in your lip/tongue area than in your lungs. Having seen many of my patients through treatment of cancers in the head and neck - it ain't pretty:( . Speaking and eating become pretty hard to do after a few rounds of chemo and radiation therapy.

There was one paper entitled "Occupational risk factors for sarcoma subtypes" by Hoppin JA (appearing in Epidemiology. 1999 May; Vol. 10 (3), pp. 300-6. ) mentions more sarcomas due to plywood and saw dust exposure.

Happy to find more - but I think the evidence is pretty conclusive - saw dust is a carcinogen and we should all wear dust masks.

Cheers
Dan

[Hugh Reid]

check out http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
he goes into a bit of detail

[ribot]

I briefly worked for a furniture maker who's best mate was making a killing building MDF bedroom furniture.
Anyway, on his deathbed he swore it was the MDF that caused his illness.
No proof , but good enought for me. NO MDF.

[9Fingers]

I have asthma so I've had to force myself to wear the old dust mask. Invest in a better quality and more comfortable mask and it won't be that bad. I also run an old box fan in my shop with a basic furnace filter attached to the intake side which, by the amout of dust that collects on the filter, seem to work well. I also run the shop vac on all my tools when I'm cutting. And if its a nice day I open the windows in my shop.