Challenge 2020 - 2021 Oldgreybeard

[Oldgreybeard]

2020-2021 Plane Building Challenge



Build a Woodworking Plane


I wish to extend an invitation to all members of theWoodWork Forums and the MetalWork Forums to join in our 2020 -2021 Plane Building Challenge. Details of the challenge are posted here (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f254/2020-2021-plane-building-challenge-237106) on the WoodWorking Forum.

Planes may be made from wood, metal, plastic, etc or any combination and can be based on your own design, someone else's design or a modification of an existing design, but does not include the restoration or modification of an old plane.

The competition judges are IanW, fletty and derekcohen. The competition closes on 31 March 2021.

Good luck,
Bob

[Oldgreybeard]

Are you like me and have never made a plane before?

Fortunately there is plenty of information on the web to get us going.

I have chosen this site The Plane Build - Video - The English Woodworker (https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/plane-build-video/)

Not only does it provide a step- by- step video,but also includes free plans for the plane. Attached image is one page from the free plans supplied by The English Woodworker website.
480399
This is where I am planning to start. I have found a piece of Fijian Mahogany (480 x 80 x 80) in my stash and have been offered a suitable piece of 'tool steel' about 130 x 5mm by Simplicity.

Next step is to get a piece of pine or something similar, take the laptop out to the shed and start practicing the skills required

[Simplicity]

Are you like me and have never made a plane before?

Fortunately there is plenty of information on the web to get us going.

I have chosen this site The Plane Build - Video - The English Woodworker (https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/plane-build-video/)

Not only does it provide a step- by- step video,but also includes free plans for the plane. Attached image is one page from the free plans supplied by The English Woodworker website.
480399
This is where I am planning to start. I have found a piece of Fijian Mahogany (480 x 80 x 80) in my stash and have been offered a suitable piece of 'tool steel' about 130 x 5mm by Simplicity.

Next step is to get a piece of pine or something similar, take the laptop out to the shed and start practicing the skills required


Looks good Bob‘ don’t forget to include bribing the judges in your plain build ,I heard that helps.

Cheers Matt.

[Mountain Ash]

Hi OGB. I have built 2 planes using that video series, brilliant stuff. And inspired to make a third. Great place to start :D

[justonething]

Thanks for sharing the steps, I thought I didn't have time to research. I am now rethinking it.

[Oldgreybeard]

If you are following along with me on my learning/skills development - here is the next chapter
(PDF) Making & mastering wood planes | Anthony Wilson - Academia.edu (https://www.academia.edu/41692094/Making_and_mastering_wood_planes?auto=download&ssrv=nrrc)


Keep up the good work
Bob

[Oldgreybeard]

If you are following along with me on my learning/skills development - here is the next chapter
(PDF) Making & mastering wood planes | Anthony Wilson - Academia.edu (https://www.academia.edu/41692094/Making_and_mastering_wood_planes?auto=download&ssrv=nrrc)


Keep up the good work
Bob

Just a heads up - read, RE-READ and RE_READ chapter 4 - its 52 pages, and really gets hub of it all:2tsup:

[doug3030]

If you are following along with me on my learning/skills development - here is the next chapter
(PDF) Making & mastering wood planes | Anthony Wilson - Academia.edu (https://www.academia.edu/41692094/Making_and_mastering_wood_planes?auto=download&ssrv=nrrc)

It was interesting registering an account at academia.edu so that I could download the pdf.

They wanted to know what type of academic I was from a multiple choice list.

I picked "scientist" and they told me they had never heard of me, but they let me join and download it anyway. :oo:

[Mountain Ash]

Can I access the article without signing up?

[doug3030]

Can I access the article without signing up?

It's actually an e-book and a good one at that. I just clicked on access with facebook, told them I'm a scientist, the system said they didnt know me but then the download prompt appeared anyway. I dislike signing up forstuff on the net too but that one looked pretty harmless.

[Aussiephil]

Can I access the article without signing up?

It will open as a web page in your browser and you could read it online but it is a 190 page PDF file, when i signed up it asked me nothing except name and email....

[Mountain Ash]

Aah. I don't have facebook. When I signed in through google it wanted to access my contacts and when I finally got to their page there was nothing to see. I'll try again

[Mountain Ash]

Got it now

[Oldgreybeard]

Enough of the theory - my brain is hurting. So I have a plan. A trial on some plain timber to check my sawing, planing squaring and straightening skills.
1. Take 80 x 80 x 400 piece of pine from old pallet.
2. Over to the jointer flatten one side for the plane sole.
3. Use sole as reference side and plane the adjacent sides to straight and perpendicular to the sole and parallel to each other
4. mark out guide lines to rip a 12mm slice of the two sides for the cheeks
5. Use band saw to cut leaving about 1 mm over size and to plane to size
6. Repeat 1 - 5 above if necessary to hone my skills.

Note use of jointer and band saw. 2 reasons - Shoulder injury does not permit extended action as required for sawing and planing.
Also and probably more importantly, I don't have a rip saw.
That's the plan for today, so time for breakfast and then out to the shed.

Who else is ready to test their skills?

Cheers,
Bob

[Simplicity]

Enough of the theory - my brain is hurting. So I have a plan. A trial on some plain timber to check my sawing, planing squaring and straightening skills.
1. Take 80 x 80 x 400 piece of pine from old pallet.
2. Over to the jointer flatten one side for the plane sole.
3. Use sole as reference side and plane the adjacent sides to straight and perpendicular to the sole and parallel to each other
4. mark out guide lines to rip a 12mm slice of the two sides for the cheeks
5. Use band saw to cut leaving about 1 mm over size and to plane to size
6. Repeat 1 - 5 above if necessary to hone my skills.

Note use of jointer and band saw. 2 reasons - Shoulder injury does not permit extended action as required for sawing and planing.
Also and probably more importantly, I don't have a rip saw.
That's the plan for today, so time for breakfast and then out to the shed.

Who else is ready to test their skills?

Cheers,
Bob

Bob,
Unless you provide pictures,we won’t believe you.

But sounds like a great plan none the less.

Cheers Matt.

[Oldgreybeard]

Bob,
Unless you provide pictures,we won’t believe you.

But sounds like a great plan none the less.

Cheers Matt.

There will be pictures - later!
So far I haven't really done anything, its all in my head and I haven't yet figured out how to photograph my brain working (assuming it does):D

[doug3030]

Enough of the theory - my brain is hurting. So I have a plan. A trial on some plain timber to check my sawing, planing squaring and straightening skills.

...

Who else is ready to test their skills?

Hopefully, today I will get Matt's mitreplane blade heat treated. That's out of competition of course, but still plane-related.

I will be starting on a prototype for my competition plane soon too.

[Oldgreybeard]

Enough of the theory - my brain is hurting. So I have a plan. A trial on some plain timber to check my sawing, planing squaring and straightening skills.
1. Take 80 x 80 x 400 piece of pine from old pallet.
2. Over to the jointer flatten one side for the plane sole.
3. Use sole as reference side and plane the adjacent sides to straight and perpendicular to the sole and parallel to each other
4. mark out guide lines to rip a 12mm slice of the two sides for the cheeks
5. Use band saw to cut leaving about 1 mm over size and to plane to size
6. Repeat 1 - 5 above if necessary to hone my skills.

Note use of jointer and band saw. 2 reasons - Shoulder injury does not permit extended action as required for sawing and planing.
Also and probably more importantly, I don't have a rip saw.
That's the plan for today, so time for breakfast and then out to the shed.

Who else is ready to test their skills?

Cheers,
Bob

Points 1,2 & 3 completed - I'm happy

Image 1 - Original piece of pine
Image 2 - Thru the jointer and nice and smooth
Image 3 - Not only smooth but square
Image 4 - Checked for parallel 73.40mm
Image 5 - Other end - Oh Bugger 7.36 .Out by 0.04mm. Is that close enough for a pass mark?

(Click on image for larger view)

Cheers
Bob


480617480619480618480616480620

[Simplicity]

Points 1,2 & 3 completed - I'm happy

Image 1 - Original piece of pine
Image 2 - Thru the jointer and nice and smooth
Image 3 - Not only smooth but square
Image 4 - Checked for parallel 73.40mm
Image 5 - Other end - Oh Bugger 7.36 .Out by 0.04mm. Is that close enough for a pass mark?

(Click on image for larger view)

Cheers
Bob


480617480619480618480616480620



We’re are the Judges ??
Can someone please put some Red wine out, I’m sure that, will bring them in.

Bob I reckon you past yo days mission.

Cheers Matt.

[Oldgreybeard]

We’re are the Judges ??
Can someone please put some Red wine out, I’m sure that, will bring them in.

Cheers Matt.
OOPs, Maureen & I just finished off the Father's Day red wine gift - was good too:brava

[Aussiephil]

Points 1,2 & 3 completed - I'm happy

Image 4 - Checked for parallel 73.40mm
Image 5 - Other end - Oh Bugger 7.36 .Out by 0.04mm. Is that close enough for a pass mark?



In the spirit of competition and making you do it twice, that's a fail.

Unless you failed to deburr/denib the part correct, please measure it again just to be safe.

:):):)

Phil rustles around in the wine fridge for a bottle of red.

[Oldgreybeard]

In the spirit of competition and making you do it twice, that's a fail.

Unless you failed to deburr/denib the part correct, please measure it again just to be safe.

:):):)

Phil rustles around in the wine fridge for a bottle of red.

That's mean, Phil. I will re-measure tomorrow - I'm sure If I apply a little more pressure I could get the 73.40 down to 73.36:p

[Oldgreybeard]

That's mean, Phil. I will re-measure tomorrow - I'm sure If I apply a little more pressure I could get the 73.40 down to 73.36:p

It is drizzling rain here in Melbourne this morning and the forecast is for up to 50mm in the next 48 hours. So I have a question for the wise -
The blank which I measured yesterday has been in the garage (unlined and gaps around the doors to let the moist air flow). The measurements were taken outdoors on a nice, sunny, warm day (well it was for Melbourne). When I re-measure the blank on Monday should I expect the timber to have expanded or contracted due to the changes in the atmospheric conditions? If so will it be larger or smaller and by how much?

The first response to this thread with the correct answer will be awarded 1 brownie point to be applied by the judges in reaching their decision on the best plane of the competition (another executive decision).

[Simplicity]

It is drizzling rain here in Melbourne this morning and the forecast is for up to 50mm in the next 48 hours. So I have a question for the wise -
The blank which I measured yesterday has been in the garage (unlined and gaps around the doors to let the moist air flow). The measurements were taken outdoors on a nice, sunny, warm day (well it was for Melbourne). When I re-measure the blank on Monday should I expect the timber to have expanded or contracted due to the changes in the atmospheric conditions? If so will it be larger or smaller and by how much?

The first response to this thread with the correct answer will be awarded 1 brownie point to be applied by the judges in reaching their decision on the best plane of the competition (another executive decision).

Four microns in expansion?

Metal is more stable, just saying!

Cheers Matt.

[doug3030]

The blank which I measured yesterday has been in the garage (unlined and gaps around the doors to let the moist air flow). The measurements were taken outdoors on a nice, sunny, warm day (well it was for Melbourne). When I re-measure the blank on Monday should I expect the timber to have expanded or contracted due to the changes in the atmospheric conditions? If so will it be larger or smaller and by how much?


Enough of the theory - my brain is hurting. So I have a plan. A trial on some plain timber to check my sawing, planing squaring and straightening skills.
1. Take 80 x 80 x 400 piece of pine from old pallet.

Bob, seriously, I think it matters very little. It's a piece of old pallet wood, and the photos show that the billet contains the pith of the tree. It's not the best thing to use to check sawing, planing and straightening skills on.

I know its a trial run but I can see it causing you nothing but frustration if you proceed with that billet.

[Oldgreybeard]

By now I suspect that you have all figured out that I am planning a size 4 or5 Jack plane with a laminated wood body. I am now concentrating my thoughts on the blade. I envisage a 50mm x 5 or 6 mm blade with no chip breaker. The blade would be held in position by the wedge and pin technique.

The 3 questions I am battling with are:
1. What bedding angle to cut in the block?

< 20o Commonly recommended for end grain block planes (Not what I want)
45o Frequently referred to as the common pitch and mostly used for bench planes for softwood and straight grained hardoods.
50o Frequently referred to as the York pitch recommended for hardwoods with interlocking and highly figure grain.


2. Plane iron to be mounted bevel - up or bevel - down? I am leaning towards bevel down.

3. Bevel angle to grind on iron?


Primary bevel only? Most commentators are recommending 30o.
Primary plus secondary bevel? If 30o used as primary bevel, would 25 -27o be appropriate for the secondary bevel


I am looking for a plane which will be optimized for Australian hardwood species where the aim is to emphasize the grain. Most material I have read refers to English or American species which I believe are frequently not as hard as the Australian species.

Any advice is desperately needed.
Thanks

Bob

[Simplicity]

By now I suspect that you have all figured out that I am planning a size 4 or5 Jack plane with a laminated wood body. I am now concentrating my thoughts on the blade. I envisage a 50mm x 5 or 6 mm blade with no chip breaker. The blade would be held in position by the wedge and pin technique.

The 3 questions I am battling with are:
1. What bedding angle to cut in the block?

< 20o Commonly recommended for end grain block planes (Not what I want)
45o Frequently referred to as the common pitch and mostly used for bench planes for softwood and straight grained hardoods.
50o Frequently referred to as the York pitch recommended for hardwoods with interlocking and highly figure grain.


2. Plane iron to be mounted bevel - up or bevel - down? I am leaning towards bevel down.

3. Bevel angle to grind on iron?


Primary bevel only? Most commentators are recommending 30o.
Primary plus secondary bevel? If 30o used as primary bevel, would 25 -27o be appropriate for the secondary bevel


I am looking for a plane which will be optimized for Australian hardwood species where the aim is to emphasize the grain. Most material I have read refers to English or American species which I believe are frequently not as hard as the Australian species.

Any advice is desperately needed.
Thanks

Bob

Bob,
The 01 Tool steel I have for you is only 38 mm wide 6 mm thickness!!

Considering you want to plane some real woods, not the other softy stuff, that mere mortals use,I would go for A York pitch bevel down(bevel down mouths are bigger and easier to file).
But this is just my humble opinion I’m .

Cheers Matt.

[doug3030]

The blade would be held in position by the wedge and pin technique.

That cuts out the <20 degrees option.


The 3 questions I am battling with are:
1. What bedding angle to cut in the block?

< 20o Commonly recommended for end grain block planes (Not what I want)
45o Frequently referred to as the common pitch and mostly used for bench planes for softwood and straight grained hardoods.
50o Frequently referred to as the York pitch recommended for hardwoods with interlocking and highly figure grain.


2. Plane iron to be mounted bevel - up or bevel - down? I am leaning towards bevel down.

3. Bevel angle to grind on iron?

Primary bevel only? Most commentators are recommending 30o.
Primary plus secondary bevel? If 30o used as primary bevel, would 25 -27o be appropriate for the secondary bevel


With <20 degrees ruled out that means a bevel down plane. That means the bevel angle becomes less critical as the bed angle will be what determines the the angle at which the blade contacts the timber. You then need to look at clearance angle, and edge durability, 25-30 is a good range. Your secondary bevel would begreater than your rimary,not less.


I am looking for a plane which will be optimized for Australian hardwood species where the aim is to emphasize the grain. Most material I have read refers to English or American species which I believe are frequently not as hard as the Australian species.

That points towards a higher bed angle (York Pitch)

Your own wishlist points to a 50 degree bevel down plane with a 25 to 30 degree primary bevel and a small (optional) secondary bevel.

Hint: Get the blade made up and build the plane around it. Much easier than building the plane and trying to make a blade to fit it. This is particularly important when you are relying on third party assistance to help make the blade.

[Oldgreybeard]

Bob,
The 01 Tool steel I have for you is only 38 mm wide 6 mm thickness!!

Cheers Matt.

That's no problem as I propose to design the the body to suit the iron. As you can see from my questions, I'm still some way off that point.

Cheers
Bob

[Mountain Ash]

Hi Bob. My first "woodie" was Jack sized and has a bed angle of 45°. A lot of it's work has been prepping one flat surface on Messmate (old recycled rafters) so I can run the boards through a thicknesser (I don't own a jointer). The blade is the old tapered style, "Made in Sheffield".

[Oldgreybeard]

In post #18 I displayed the results of my preliminary tests to check my setup and techniques.

Image 4 - Checked for parallel 73.40mm
Image 5 - Other end - Oh Bugger 7.36 .Out by 0.04mm. Is that close enough for a pass mark?

Aussiephil declared in
post #21"In the spirit of competition and making you do it twice, that's a fail."

Was Phil correct? In so far as the a single error of 0.04mm is concerned possibly not. But what if I took 6 successive passes over the same area -, is there a possibility for the error to compound and produce a significant error? Let's consider the implication of such compounding error on a critical part of the plane build - cutting and setting the plane bedding angle. As I pointed out in
post #26 I am looking for a plane which will be optimized for Australian hardwood species where the aim is to emphasize the grain.
Both Doug3030 and Simplicity agreed with my thoughts that this implied a 50o bedding angle (York Pitch) which is recommended for hardwoods with interlocking and highly figure grain. A small error dropping the pitch closer to the Normal Pitch of 45o could have significant impact on the ability of the plane to produce the results I am seeking on harder Australian Hardwoods, particularly where interlocking and curly grain is involved.

The question now is how to rectify the cause of such a potential problem.
Doug3030 in post #25 correctly pointed out the that I was wasting my time with the piece of pallet material I was using, but I am not sure that in respect to the tests I was conducting that it played a significant role. I now see how the problem is being caused by my technique and that only a small compensation in how I feed the billet into the jointer is required to resolve the issue.

I said in post #22
I'm sure If I apply a little more pressure I could get the 73.40 down to 73.36 That was a start in the right direction, but what I really needed to do was to bring the 73.36 up to 73.40. When we use a hand plane, we commence the smoothing cut with slightly more downward pressure through our left hand (assuming you are right-handed) on the front of the body. As we move along the cut the downward pressure becomes more evenly distributed between the right hand on the tote and the left hand on the front of the plane, finally ending the cut with most of the downward pressure being exerted through the right hand. That's exactly what I did BUT I was not using a hand plane - I was using an 8" electric jointer. Here the application of downward pressure between the right and left hand is reversed. You start with more pressure on the back of the billet (in-feed end of the jointer) and gradually move through even pressure between the hands and finally end with most of the downward pressure being exerted thru the left hand over the out-feed table.

Think about where the smoothed section of the billet is after it has been cut. On the plane it is under the tote and the area to be smoothed is to the left of the blade. However on the jointer, it is the area which has passed over the revolving cutter which is on the left supported by the out-feed table while the area still to be cut is supported by the in-feed table to the right of the cutter head.

[Oldgreybeard]

Received a gift in my mailbox yesterday - a piece of tool steel 38 x 8 . Thanks Matt.

Looking at the width of the of the steel, I am thinking it may be too narrow for a #5 Jack plane. As I discussed with Matt, maybe I should revise to plan to something of the size of a #4 or even a #3. I would appreciate your comments and suggestions.

I must have been pretty bored last night with all this lock-down restrictions. Anyhow opened up LibreCAD and started playing around withe some unconventional designs. What are your thoughts on this:

481048
Note dimension in bottom right corner should be 140 not 14

[Aussiephil]

In post #18 I displayed the results of my preliminary tests to check my setup and techniques.
Aussiephil declared in

Was Phil correct? In so far as the a single error of 0.04mm is concerned possibly not.

Hey Bob, in all normal woodworking days anything under .1mm would generally be a pass :), there was multiple legitimate reasons you could measure a difference and 0.04mm has got to be in the insignificant it doesn't matter category over that length .

But it is a competition........:)

I am curious if you did remeasure after the wet weekend, didn't spot it, my initial thought was it could swell with some moisture but really the percentage change would be in measurement error range and maybe the original measurement was increased due to sun induced expansion from heat.....

Maybe once we get into machinist measurement territory with wood we are also well into error ranges.

Cheers
Phil

[Oldgreybeard]

I am curious if you did remeasure after the wet weekend, didn't spot it, my initial thought was it could swell with some moisture but really the percentage change would be in measurement error range and maybe the original measurement was increased due to sun induced expansion from heat.....

Cheers
Phil

I must confess that I got carried away with sorting my technique and by the time I remembered to measure the billet again the measurement did show an increase of 0.01mm. But by this time the weather had changed and the sun had been out for about 2 hours, so in the end the test was meaningless.

BTW changing my technique by increasing the the downward pressure exerted by my left hand over the out-feed table does give me more consistent results.

Cheers
Bob

[Oldgreybeard]

The following words of support for our challenge was received today from English Woodworker Journal in response to my email seeking approval to use their copyright material. see post #2.


Hi Bob,

Many thanks for getting in touch and we're delighted you've found the
plane build video useful for your challenge! No problem at all in
sharing it :)

We'd love to hear how you all get on.

Kind regards,
Helen

Woodworking Videos & Blog |Hand Tool Woodworking | The English Woodworker (http://www.TheEnglishWoodworker.com)

[Bushmiller]

The following words of support for our challenge was received today from English Woodworker Journal in response to my email seeking approval to use their copyright material. see post #2.


Bob

Well chased up. We would not want Boris' mob (MI6?) chasing after us, although quarantining for two weeks should give us a heads up and a chance to flee the coop.

Actually going to the link I see that the site is tailor made for Matt, not that I want to bring up favoritism or indeed any other heinous transgression of the rules:

481113

It should appeal to his macho image at the least.

:wink:

Regards
Paul

[Oldgreybeard]

Hi Guys

Getting close to a final design. Just wish my memory was better so that I could member how to use Fusion 360 Drawing workspace:( Anyhow I think you will be able to get the gist of the design from this (took it into Photoshop and cleaned it up a bit)
481125

I appreciate your comments and suggestions.

[doug3030]

maybe try again, invalid attachment.

[Oldgreybeard]

maybe try again, invalid attachment.

Try it now -don't know what went wrong
Bob

[Simplicity]

Hi Guys

Getting close to a final design. Just wish my memory was better so that I could member how to use Fusion 360 Drawing workspace:( Anyhow I think you will be able to get the gist of the design from this (took it into Photoshop and cleaned it up a bit)
481125

I appreciate your comments and suggestions.

Bob,
Have a look at the blade, an your mouth(No don’t go to the bathroom mirror).
It looks like your going to really struggle to get a shaving out of that, unless you bring the blade down.

I would draw my 50 degree bed angle, then draw your blade on that,
Then do the rest of the plane.

Cheers Matt.

[Oldgreybeard]

Bob,
Have a look at the blade, an your mouth(No don’t go to the bathroom mirror).
It looks like your going to really struggle to get a shaving out of that, unless you bring the blade down.

I would draw my 50 degree bed angle, then draw your blade on that,
Then do the rest of the plane.

Cheers Matt.

Ha ha you caught me out. I told you that my memory in terms of Fusion 360 was very rusty. The problem originated from the fact that I drew the blade bevel up instead of bevel down. I 100% agree with you
I would draw my 50 degree bed angle, then draw your blade on that,
Then do the rest of the plane., but when I changed the bevel, I could find no way to spread the 2 body sections apart, short of starting the sketch all over again - all the dimensions and angles got all screwed up. Perhaps I need to get with the times and learn 3D Parametric modelling :?

Cheers, Bob

[Bushmiller]

Bob

I prepared this about four hours ago but got distracted! In th meantime you and Matt have got it all sorted.

"Bob

I see that the plane is blue. What timber will you be using?

Silly comments aside, the positioning of the blade will need some adjustment either forward or back as for the moment there is no effective mouth. Moving the blade bed back will give less room for blade adjustment bearing in mind you need "tap" room. Moving the blade forward may make it too far forward: The dilemma."

However, there was clearly another and more simple solution.

:)

Regards
Paul

[Simplicity]

Ha ha you caught me out. I told you that my memory in terms of Fusion 360 was very rusty. The problem originated from the fact that I drew the blade bevel up instead of bevel down. I 100% agree with you , but when I changed the bevel, I could find no way to spread the 2 body sections apart, short of starting the sketch all over again - all the dimensions and angles got all screwed up. Perhaps I need to get with the times and learn 3D Parametric modelling :?

Cheers, Bob

Or go old school,
Pencil and paper lol

[Oldgreybeard]

Or go old school,
Pencil and paper lol

I can't draw a straight line let alone a curve! I think the last year that I did art at high school I got 2 out of 100 for my final Art exam. That was probably only because the teacher couldn't bring herself to give a score of zero.

Cheers, Bob

[Oldgreybeard]

Bob

I prepared this about four hours ago but got distracted! In th meantime you and Matt have got it all sorted.

"Bob

I see that the plane is blue. What timber will you be using?

:)

Regards
Paul

Timber ?? Maybe blue gum:rolleyes:
Cheers,
Bob

[Simplicity]

I can't draw a straight line let alone a curve! I think the last year that I did art at high school I got 2 out of 100 for my final Art exam. That was probably only because the teacher couldn't bring herself to give a score of zero.

Cheers, Bob

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200916/83f1ded1066f6a3584b5dd21df2cf9a6.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200916/5cd6cc52fad674501bb40f21678b1888.jpg

There on the house Bob,

See the difference in the mouth opening,hence why a plan is gooooood.

Cheers Matt.

[Oldgreybeard]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200916/83f1ded1066f6a3584b5dd21df2cf9a6.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200916/5cd6cc52fad674501bb40f21678b1888.jpg

There on the house Bob,

See the difference in the mouth opening,hence why a plan is gooooood.

Cheers Matt.

I'm with you Matt - pity the bloody computer doesn't understand what I want it to do. Every time I drawn the mouth at the correct size and then save it, the stupid computer joins the two points of the front and rear sole and eliminates the mouth :oo:
Maybe I should just accept that I need to learn how to use the software the way it works and not how I want it to work:C

Cheers, Bob

[Aussiephil]

I'm with you Matt - pity the bloody computer doesn't understand what I want it to do. Every time I drawn the mouth at the correct size and then save it, the stupid computer joins the two points of the front and rear sole and eliminates the mouth :oo:
Maybe I should just accept that I need to learn how to use the software the way it works and not how I want it to work:C

Cheers, Bob

Hey Bob, in F360 there are so many ways to get to the same point often it's hard to say "do this"

For the mouth i would do the following

Push/pull the plain sole to it's final thickness.
View the bottom of the sole
select plane on sole and create new sketch. draw the mouth in the desired location using a dimensioned rectangle and locating it with a dimensioned line from either front or back as a locator so you can move it later
save sketch and then do a cut operation on the sole.
after the cut you can bevel the top edges to match the bevel angles needed in the mouth.

hope that helps

Cheers
Phil

[Oldgreybeard]

Thanks Phil and Matt,
I understand what you are saying Phil, but I just wanted a simple 2D sketch to get the cut lines in the body and the position of the hole for the wedge pin. These will be used to cut the pine billet to check that everything fits together correctly before I start on the final build using more appropriate material.

I think I got it this time using LibreCAD.
481156

I am planning on using Red Gum for the front Knob , Tote and wedge and the Fijian Mahogany for the laminated body. Anyone see a problem there?

[Oldgreybeard]

I am starting to make some progress. Blade iron cut,and squared up, and primary bevel ground. Still a little more to be done on leveling the back of the iron and polishing to get it ready for hardening. Photos will follow when blade is ready for hardening.


Need a couple of days to attend to 'domestic duties' and will then get started on the wood work.

Cheers
Bob

[Oldgreybeard]

Some photos as promised of progress with the plane iron
481301481302481303481304481305

Cheers
Bob

[Simplicity]

Some photos as promised of progress with the plane iron
481301481302481303481304481305

Cheers
Bob

Bob,
Not sure if I’m seeing this right,
But that looks like the edge is rounded over a bit,

Might be easier to get that flat while it’s still soft.
If it’s rounded.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200919/d6f9d9ffda0124956d3d7702974f21f8.jpg


Cheers Matt.

[doug3030]

Might be easier to get that flat while it’s still soft.
If it’s rounded.

If it is rounded it might be worth spending some time on it with a surface plate and some wet and dry.

Don't overdo it though as there is almost certainly going to be a bit of warping in the heat treat, even if it is minor.

It does pay to get it close while it is still annealed as it is easier, but every blade needs a little touch-up after heat treating, even yours did, Matt.

[Oldgreybeard]

I don't think it is rounded, but I will check again.I think it is only light reflecting off that edge as I had to do a bit more work on that side to get it flat. I have a 1/2" Float glass flat surface which I used with 320 grit Wet & Dry to polish out the worst of the marks left by the linisher. I might see if I can get a finer belt for the linisher, I think the one I am using is about 150 grit - didn't bother to check as it is the only belt I have until the shops open again.

Thank you both for drawing my attention to it.
Cheers
Bob

[Oldgreybeard]

The following is from an email I received from Autodesk on Friday:

Hi Bob,
Important changes are coming to your Fusion 360 for personal use software that you need to know about.

Effective October 1, 2020, functionality in Fusion 360 for personal use will be limited, and you’ll no longer have access to the following:


Probing, 3 + 2-axis milling (tool orientation), multi-axis milling, rapid moves, automatic tool changes
Multi-sheets, smart templates, output options for drawings (print only).
Download options from public share links
Cloud rendering
Export options including DWG, IGES, SAT, STEP, and DXF (Note: DXF can still be saved via sketch)
Simulation and generative design
Unlimited active and editable Fusion 360 documents (10 doc limit).
Fusion 360 extensions – Generative Design and Manufacturing Extensions


These changes are being made to allow us to scale, align intended usage with the various offerings, support advanced capabilities for Fusion 360 subscribers, and stay true to our guiding principles of democratizing design for everyone.

Fusion 360 for personal use is still free for those of you working on home-based, non-commercial design, manufacturing, and fabrication projects.

For more information about these changes, please refer here and the FAQ.


If you are considering moving to a CAD program you might want to consider what effect these changes will have on what you are intend to do with the CAD program.

Cheers
Bob

[doug3030]

The following is from an email I received from Autodesk on Friday:

Hi Bob,
Important changes are coming to your Fusion 360 for personal use software that you need to know about.

Effective October 1, 2020, functionality in Fusion 360 for personal use will be limited, and you’ll no longer have access to the following:



Looks like a typical marketing ploy.

The honeymoon is over, now you get to pay the big bucks for what they got you hooked on.

A bit like Jools's new embroidery machine:
Reduced to $3000 from $5000. A week after you get it you get an email offering you a discount to buy the software to make it do what you thought you were buying in the first place. Cough up another $1200.

[Bushmiller]

Looks like a typical marketing ploy.

The honeymoon is over, now you get to pay the big bucks for what they got you hooked on.

A bit like Jools's new embroidery machine:
Reduced to $3000 from $5000. A week after you get it you get an email offering you a discount to buy the software to make it do what you thought you were buying in the first place. Cough up another $1200.


Ouch!!

Regards
Paul

[Aussiephil]

I'm a F360 user and immediately panicked a bit... in reading through the announcement is seems like it will have little impact on what i use it for except the 10 active documents/designs. it makes sense and will just force me into cramming a lot more components into a single active document so unless they limit component counts maybe no real impact.
I should tidy up the document list i have and par it down to the essentials before the end of the month. This day was coming as soon as the split the Educational and personal licensing.

[Oldgreybeard]

I don't think it is rounded, but I will check again.I think it is only light reflecting off that edge as I had to do a bit more work on that side to get it flat. I have a 1/2" Float glass flat surface which I used with 320 grit Wet & Dry to polish out the worst of the marks left by the linisher. I might see if I can get a finer belt for the linisher, I think the one I am using is about 150 grit - didn't bother to check as it is the only belt I have until the shops open again.

Thank you both for drawing my attention to it.
Cheers
Bob

OK I went out to the shed this morning and re-checked the flatness of the iron back.Now there MAY have been a slight gap - at the most a poofteenth of a bee's nick, so I went back to the float glass flat surface and spent about 5 minutes working on the blade with 320 grit wet & dry.

Here is the result
481458. Note the torch behind the blade and no light showing between the blade and the square.(unless my eyesight has deteriorated)

Now I would call that definitely withing the accepted tolerance of 1 poofteenth of anything.

Cheers
Bob

[Simplicity]

OK I went out to the shed this morning and re-checked the flatness of the iron back.Now there MAY have been a slight gap - at the most a poofteenth of a bee's nick, so I went back to the float glass flat surface and spent about 5 minutes working on the blade with 320 grit wet & dry.

Here is the result
481458. Note the torch behind the blade and no light showing between the blade and the square.(unless my eyesight has deteriorated)

Now I would call that definitely withing the accepted tolerance of 1 poofteenth of anything.

Cheers
Bob

Bob,
I would say that’s good enough, to be heat treated.
Once you have the blade hardened up,you will want to go back to flatting the back on some sharping stones, or wet and dry on some glass, anyway.

Cheers Matt

[Oldgreybeard]

I should share with you a question which I posed to Judge Alan (fletty) last night.


My original challenge to Matt was to make a wooden plane - that has morphed into any sort of plane for woodwork . But a question for you: is it possible to make a plane (including the blade) entirely from wood? If so what wood could be sharpened to produce a shaving from pine?

On my 'coronavirus walks' around the neighbourhood streets, I generally talk to a couple of elder gents further up our street. A week or two ago I mentioned that we were starting the challenge to build a wooden woodworking plane. Yesterday Colin inquired as to how I was going with my plane. He had interpreted our challenge as meaning that the plane would be made entirely of wood, including the blade.:rolleyes: and was somewhat taken aback at the thought of me using a steel blade :oo:

Anyhow that got me thinking - is it possible to make a plane blade out of timber that would be able to make of shaving from a piece of pine?

Let's have your considered opinions,

Alan has not replied yet - he probably thinks the oldgreybeard has lost his marbles. D

Cheers
Bob

[Simplicity]

I’m with Alan.
For any tool to cut, it must be harder than the item being cut.
Ok it might work on Balsa wood.

Cheers Matt.

[Aussiephil]

I should share with you a question which I posed to Judge Alan (fletty) last night.

On my 'coronavirus walks' around the neighbourhood streets, I generally talk to a couple of elder gents further up our street. A week or two ago I mentioned that we were starting the challenge to build a wooden woodworking plane. Yesterday Colin inquired as to how I was going with my plane. He had interpreted our challenge as meaning that the plane would be made entirely of wood, including the blade.:rolleyes: and was somewhat taken aback at the thought of me using a steel blade :oo:

Anyhow that got me thinking - is it possible to make a plane blade out of timber that would be able to make of shaving from a piece of pine?

Let's have your considered opinions,

Alan has not replied yet - he probably thinks the oldgreybeard has lost his marbles. D

Cheers
Bob

To the blade question first.... the answer is less about can it be done but how well it could be done and what sort of shaving and width is deemed working. A dense close grained hardwood should be able to be sharpened enough to get a bevel shaving from pine so it would/should pass a narrow specific criteria.

On the thought of the original intent of a "made from wood" plane, i know i didn't interpret the challenge as posted in that way and i do think the differing options thrown up so far are diverse and interesting :)

I have some hard dense wood from an old railway sleeper that is unfriendly to even carbide tools so tempting to throw a bit into the mill and see if it can be done.

[Oldgreybeard]

I agree that the option to use different designs and materials has produced a more varied and interest challenge. I have an old Ironwood 'chopping block' down behind the shed. I might attack that with the chainsaw and see if I can make a blade from it that will produce some sort of shaving from a piece of pine.

[doug3030]

I agree that the option to use different designs and materials has produced a more varied and interest challenge. I have an old Ironwood 'chopping block' down behind the shed. I might attack that with the chainsaw and see if I can make a blade from it that will produce some sort of shaving from a piece of pine.

This does beg the question: "What is the point?"

I agree that it can be done. But I think that there would be no practical benefit on doing so beyond the challenge of making it happen.

It would most probably take a lot of trial and error to determine the most suitable edge geometry to achieve, for a very short time, a result that can be achieved much quicker and easier by other means. Once you have achieved a shaving with a wooden blade from a piece of pine,where do you go from there. I cannot see it leading to any scientific breakthrough that will end climate change, world poverty or Covid-19 lockdown. Once you have the photo framed and on the mantlepiece its all over and forgotten.

But, hey, if it gives you a sense of purpose I'm not going to stand in your way.

[Oldgreybeard]

Thanks for your comments Doug. There is no point to it - but since it was alluded to, curiosity kicked in and I need more practice in building the laminated plane body before I start on my 'competition piece'. So, why not?

Cheers,
Bob

[Sheets]

My two cents - it won't work. I'm no historian, but I'd guess there is not any reference at any time throughout human history of wood being used as the blade material for a tool (I can't find any with a cursory online search). Bone, stone, and various metals, yes. Wooden nails and pegs pretty well need a pre-drilled hole (Vampire slayers excepted), but they are fasteners more than tools.

For an attempt to try it, one needs to define what constitutes success/fail. I.e., x-thickness shaving by y-width and z-length (although extra points would be awarded for starting a fire).

Maybe too, the criteria should be that only wood can be used to make the entire tool? (starting with a standing tree :wink:).

But don't let me discourage you:no:.

[Simplicity]

My two cents - it won't work. I'm no historian, but I'd guess there is not any reference at any time throughout human history of wood being used as the blade material for a tool (I can't find any with a cursory online search). Bone, stone, and various metals, yes. Wooden nails and pegs pretty well need a pre-drilled hole (Vampire slayers excepted), but they are fasteners more than tools.

For an attempt to try it, one needs to define what constitutes success/fail. I.e., x-thickness shaving by y-width and z-length (although extra points would be awarded for starting a fire).

Maybe too, the criteria should be that only wood can be used to make the entire tool? (starting with a standing tree :wink:).

But don't let me discourage you:no:.

I’m with Sheets on this.

Cheers Matt.

[Sturdee]

Bob,

Instead of a wooden or steel blade why not make the blade, or even the whole plane, out of Corian.

If you want to go this way I can supply the stuff out of my store, I can even give you quite a few colours.

Peter.

[Oldgreybeard]

Bob,

Instead of a wooden or steel blade why not make the blade, or even the whole plane, out of Corian.

If you want to go this way I can supply the stuff out of my store, I can even give you quite a few colours.

Peter.

Good to hear from Peter. I'll have to see how I am going a bit further down the track after our curfews etc are over.

[Mountain Ash]

Hi Bob. If you search for Matt Estlea on YouTube, he had a crack at a wooden plane blade a little while ago.

[Oldgreybeard]

Hi Bob. If you search for Matt Estlea on YouTube, he had a crack at a wooden plane blade a little while ago.

Thanks MA, didn't find the You Tube you reference but I did find this

"http://inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaJackPlane.html". Absolutely brilliant and should be read by everyone of us :2tsup: :2tsup: .Please mention how impressed you were - not that I'm looking for brownie points from one of our esteemed judges but it is signed:


I hope yours turns out as satisfying as mine.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Cheers from Melbourne

Bob

[Oldgreybeard]

Matt has instructed me to update you all with the latest stats.

Days left in challenge: 175

Total Woodwork and Metalwork Forum Members who have viewed the announcement post :A total of 210 members have viewed my post of 7 September announcing the 2020-2021 Plane Building Challenge.

Number of registrations for the challenge: There are currently 18 members who have registered - including 2 from Canada and 1 from USA.

Number of posts: Collectively there have been 609 posts to the 18 individual threads (not including the Judges Corner and Tips, techniques and Theory sticky threads)

Number of views of the registered members posts: In total the 609 posts have been viewed 17,325 times or approximately 22 new posts and almost 650 views per day.

Of the total of 210 members who have viewed the original announcement, 8.5% have taken up the challenge.

Neil, Ubeaut, our benevolent dictator should be suitable impressed. Keep up the good work guys

[Picko]

Oh, great. Now I've got stage fright and it's still a week before I can go and hide in my shed.

[Simplicity]

Oh, great. Now I've got stage fright and it's still a week before I can go and hide in my shed.

You just need to make the first step(well actually probably a cut)
The rest will be easy.

Cheers Matt.

[Oldgreybeard]

Haven't been able to do anything in the shed for over a week, so been doing some research on old wooden planes.
482540 Now this is a challenge


Historically speaking, the Goodmanham Plane was of a similar style and dimensions as that of other early Roman planes, such as those found at Pompeii. This consisted of a stock which had two hand grips consisting of rectangular slots – one forward and one at the rear – which had been securely riveted to an iron sole (turned up at both ends) by three dome-headed iron rivets. The plane also had its iron cutting blade set snugly in the stock. Size-wise, the plane measured 330mm long by 60mm wide and is 85mm high (approximately 13-1/4″ by 2-3/8″ by 3-3/8″). The pitch, or bed angle, of the plane is set at 65 degrees and the cutting iron is 35mm wide (1-5/16″). This size fits nicely in the middle of the range of the other Roman planes found complete with irons.

The full article is here (http://www.handplane.com/906/the-ancient-roman-plane-of-yorkshire-wolds/)

Might be a good challenge for a second plane:D

[Simplicity]

Haven't been able to do anything in the shed for over a week, so been doing some research on old wooden planes.
482540 Now this is a challenge



The full article is here (http://www.handplane.com/906/the-ancient-roman-plane-of-yorkshire-wolds/)

Might be a good challenge for a second plane:D

Bob,
Fantastic to see your starting your research from practical the being.

Cheers Matt.

[Mountain Ash]

Great website Bob. I have seen it before. Read a good article on making a dovetail plane but couldnt see all the drawings.

[Oldgreybeard]

Great website Bob. I have seen it before. Read a good article on making a dovetail plane but couldnt see all the drawings.

It wasn't easy to see the drawings. I resorted to using Snip and Sketch in Windows 10 and the edited the image in Photoshop 2020.

Cheers
Bob

[Oldgreybeard]

I am up and running. :2tsup: :2tsup:

Fijian Mahagony billet ripped to approximate size on bandsaw, Cheeks and middle section milled, squared and flattened using Jointer and Planer.
This afternoon's tasks:
Plane cheeks to 10mm thickness
Plane middle sections to 43mm wide x 50mm High and cut to length - Rear section 190mm and forward section 110mm.
Set up table saw for tomorrow to cut the 50 degree angle for the blade pitch and 60 degrees on the forward section

482658

Cheers
Bob

[Mountain Ash]

Here we go.......Love the choice of timber

[Simplicity]

I am up and running. :2tsup: :2tsup:

Fijian Mahagony billet ripped to approximate size on bandsaw, Cheeks and middle section milled, squared and flattened using Jointer and Planer.
This afternoon's tasks:
Plane cheeks to 10mm thickness
Plane middle sections to 43mm wide x 50mm High and cut to length - Rear section 190mm and forward section 110mm.
Set up table saw for tomorrow to cut the 50 degree angle for the blade pitch and 60 degrees on the forward section

482658

Cheers
Bob

Bob.
Careful you don’t end up producing a family heirloom there.
That’s going to look really nice when your done.

Any thoughts on what you will finish the Fijian Mahagony with ?

Cheers Matt.

[Oldgreybeard]

Bob.
Careful you don’t end up producing a family heirloom there.
That’s going to look really nice when your done.

Any thoughts on what you will finish the Fijian Mahagony with ?

Cheers Matt.

Hi Matt,
What type of finish? I think the first question that I am still debating is what type of plane am I building?. Is it a competition piece, a display piece featuring the style of the mid-19th century plane, or a working plane in the style typically used the tradesmen of the day? That will also dictate the "recovery' work which I need resolve as I got more tear out than expected yesterday due a nasty knot in the middle of the billet.

(1) Assume it is to be a competition piece, the recover work is probable going to involve a fair bit of sanding with wet & dry on a float glass backing plate and finished with hand scraping. Oil/wax finish buffed to a high gloss.

(2) Display piece (or as you said 'heirloom'). Run through drum sander to remove tear out, hand sand to 600 grit and 2 coat shellac finish. This would attempt to replicate the commercially 'mass' produced product of the time.

(3) Tradesman's working plane - This likely to have been 'shop made' one-off tool and what we may regard a 'low cost', it may or may not have a 3mm mild steel plate riveted to the sole and would perhaps only be sanded to 240 grit to remove sharp edges and finished with a coat of boiled linseed oil.

Until last night I was pretty certain that the display piece was where I was headed. Looking at the tear out, I am not sure that Mahogany is hard enough for the sole if the end product is to meet the challenge criteria of a 'working plane'. Now I am tossing up between (2) and (3 with a mild steel plate riveted to the sole). Before I make that decision, I think I need help from the experts here about riveting a mild steel sole plate and particularly the implications on the design of the mouth and position of the wedge.

I will post a drawing of how I think the mouth / wedge should be located and the angles involve a little later today.

Cheers
Bob

[Simplicity]

Hi Matt,
What type of finish? I think the first question that I am still debating is what type of plane am I building?. Is it a competition piece, a display piece featuring the style of the mid-19th century plane, or a working plane in the style typically used the tradesmen of the day? That will also dictate the "recovery' work which I need resolve as I got more tear out than expected yesterday due a nasty knot in the middle of the billet.

(1) Assume it is to be a competition piece, the recover work is probable going to involve a fair bit of sanding with wet & dry on a float glass backing plate and finished with hand scraping. Oil/wax finish buffed to a high gloss.

(2) Display piece (or as you said 'heirloom'). Run through drum sander to remove tear out, hand sand to 600 grit and 2 coat shellac finish. This would attempt to replicate the commercially 'mass' produced product of the time.

(3) Tradesman's working plane - This likely to have been 'shop made' one-off tool and what we may regard a 'low cost', it may or may not have a 3mm mild steel plate riveted to the sole and would perhaps only be sanded to 240 grit to remove sharp edges and finished with a coat of boiled linseed oil.

Until last night I was pretty certain that the display piece was where I was headed. Looking at the tear out, I am not sure that Mahogany is hard enough for the sole if the end product is to meet the challenge criteria of a 'working plane'. Now I am tossing up between (2) and (3 with a mild steel plate riveted to the sole). Before I make that decision, I think I need help from the experts here about riveting a mild steel sole plate and particularly the implications on the design of the mouth and position of the wedge.

I will post a drawing of how I think the mouth / wedge should be located and the angles involve a little later today.

Cheers
Bob

Bob,
Definitely number 2
A display piece, we all need some bling bling in our lives.
Maybe you could ask hear about dealing with tear out, I would be trying to scrape it out!

Cheers Matt.

[Oldgreybeard]

Until last night I was pretty certain that the display piece was where I was headed. Looking at the tear out, I am not sure that Mahogany is hard enough for the sole if the end product is to meet the challenge criteria of a 'working plane'. Now I am tossing up between (2) and (3 with a mild steel plate riveted to the sole). Before I make that decision, I think I need help from the experts here about riveting a mild steel sole plate and particularly the implications on the design of the mouth and position of the wedge.

I will post a drawing of how I think the mouth / wedge should be located and the angles involve a little later today.

Cheers
Bob

Here is the drawing - will it work or have I screwed up?
482726

[IanW]

Awww, I started at the top of this page, saw the old Roman-era plane & got all excited! I had visions of Bob chasing an elephant & ripping out one of its tusks....:D

But it looks like you've dropped that idea? Maybe just as well, 'cos you're getting a bit past wrestling with elephants, & anyway, you'd have to build yourself a new low bench to use it on - apparently the Romans used very low benches compared with our modern benches. :U

If anyone is interested, a bloke in Britain has started a bit of a career in making replicas of very old planes. He kicked off with the "Silchester plane" (https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/silchester-plane.81216/)back in 2014, and has gone on to make quite a few other replicas, including a copy of a plane found in the "Mary Rose" (https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/a-mary-rose-plane-reproduction.124212/), Henry VIII's flag ship that made a wrong turn & went head over turkey in the Solent in 1545.

I've had a few moments where I've considered having a go at one myself, just for curiosity's sake, but fortunately, such moments have all passed quickly & safely. Got enough on my plate with "modern" planes atm. Maybe in a few more decades I'll find the time..... :roll:

Cheers,

[Simplicity]

Here is the drawing - will it work or have I screwed up?
482726

Bob,

Is this (In the red circle) your cross pin, for your wedge?
If so I reckon you might want to move that up and too the left a bit.
Looks like it’s right on the lower right edge?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201013/1e4afddcf830224129212d62ba6ae31a.jpg

Cheers Matt.

[Bushmiller]

If anyone is interested, a bloke in Britain has started a bit of a career in making replicas of very old planes. He kicked off with the "Silchester plane" (https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/silchester-plane.81216/)back in 2014, and has gone on to make quite a few other replicas, including a copy of a plane found in the "Mary Rose" (https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/a-mary-rose-plane-reproduction.124212/), Henry VIII's flag ship that made a wrong turn & went head over turkey in the Solent in 1545.



Ian

Interesting that you have linked that. Somewhere I have an illustration of all the planes that were found in the Mary Rose. I had originally thought they were original, but it transpired they too were replicas, not that you could tell by looking at them. I will re-double my efforts to find them.

Regards
Paul

[Mountain Ash]

Awww, I started at the top of this page, saw the old Roman-era plane & got all excited! I had visions of Bob chasing an elephant & ripping out one of its tusks....:D

But it looks like you've dropped that idea? Maybe just as well, 'cos you're getting a bit past wrestling with elephants, & anyway, you'd have to build yourself a new low bench to use it on - apparently the Romans used very low benches compared with our modern benches. :U

If anyone is interested, a bloke in Britain has started a bit of a career in making replicas of very old planes. He kicked off with the "Silchester plane" (https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/silchester-plane.81216/)back in 2014, and has gone on to make quite a few other replicas, including a copy of a plane found in the "Mary Rose" (https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/a-mary-rose-plane-reproduction.124212/), Henry VIII's flag ship that made a wrong turn & went head over turkey in the Solent in 1545.

I've had a few moments where I've considered having a go at one myself, just for curiosity's sake, but fortunately, such moments have all passed quickly & safely. Got enough on my plate with "modern" planes atm. Maybe in a few more decades I'll find the time..... :roll:

Cheers,

Thanks Ian. Love the link and funny to see a name I recognized pop up in the comments, Oraloon gets around!

[IanW]

Thanks Ian. Love the link and funny to see a name I recognized pop up in the comments, Oraloon gets around!

Yep, there's a few familiar faces on that forum.... :)

[Oldgreybeard]

Bob,

Is this (In the red circle) your cross pin, for your wedge?
If so I reckon you might want to move that up and too the left a bit.
Looks like it’s right on the lower right edge?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201013/1e4afddcf830224129212d62ba6ae31a.jpg

Cheers Matt.

Hi Matt,
I think you may be confusing the dimension lines with a square piece to which the pin is attached. Hopefully deleting the offending dimension lines will make it clearer
482769
Bob

[Oldgreybeard]

Awww, I started at the top of this page, saw the old Roman-era plane & got all excited! I had visions of Bob chasing an elephant & ripping out one of its tusks....:D

But it looks like you've dropped that idea? Maybe just as well, 'cos you're getting a bit past wrestling with elephants, & anyway, you'd have to build yourself a new low bench to use it on - apparently the Romans used very low benches compared with our modern benches. :U

If anyone is interested, a bloke in Britain has started a bit of a career in making replicas of very old planes. He kicked off with the "Silchester plane" (https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/silchester-plane.81216/)back in 2014, and has gone on to make quite a few other replicas, including a copy of a plane found in the "Mary Rose" (https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/a-mary-rose-plane-reproduction.124212/), Henry VIII's flag ship that made a wrong turn & went head over turkey in the Solent in 1545.

I've had a few moments where I've considered having a go at one myself, just for curiosity's sake, but fortunately, such moments have all passed quickly & safely. Got enough on my plate with "modern" planes atm. Maybe in a few more decades I'll find the time..... :roll:

Cheers,

You may be right about being a bit past wrestling with elephants, but I haven't completely given up on the idea of building a Roman-era plane. Can one obtain a piece of Ivory for such a purpose? Must get my BIL to check with the museums (he is engineer at Science Works). May be if the finished item was to be donated to a museum - would that make it possible?:D :no:

Cheers,
Bob

[IanW]

I think you answered your own question. :;

They do make synthetic 'ivory' for piano keys, but no idea if you could get it in lumps of the size on that Roman plane.

There is an "ivory wood" (https://www.rarewoodsusa.com/product/pink-ivory/), though you might need to sell a kidney to get enough...

P'raps your best bet would be a bit of "Yellow Walnut" (http://www.anbg.gov.au/cpbr/cd-keys/RFK7/key/RFK7/Media/Html/entities/Cryptocarya_angulata.htm) (now called Beilschmiedia bancroftii, not Cryptocarya as on the page linked to), which among many common names is called "Ivory Walnut"....

Grows as far south as Mission Beech according to Morris Lake, so you can drive up & find a tree after they let you Victorians back into the Sunshine State (where it's currently raining, with gusty winds & 20 degrees! :C )

Just trying to counter any potential excuses.....
:D

[Colin62]

Can one obtain a piece of Ivory for such a purpose?
Genuine ivory is really difficult to get hold of, your best is probably mammoth ivory (iirc from Siberia), or imitation. There are some pretty good fakes out there, apparently this stuff is quite good (I haven’t used it myself, but saved the link based on some guy on the internet’s recommendation). It’s not cheap though, and of course there’s the shipping. And convincing customs that it isn’t in fact ivory.

Resin-Ivory™ R Grade Bagpipe Fitting Stock (https://guitarpartsandmore.com/productCategory.php?Resin-Ivory-trade-R-Grade-Bagpipe-Fitting-Stock-155)

[Oldgreybeard]

Made use of the old Pallet billets and screwed together the body & rear cheek,set Iron, wedge and wedge pin into position and hot glued the tote into position.

482874
A couple of problems are evident.

Wedge needs thinning down and reshaping to provide more room for chip removal.

Originally, I cut the angle for the front middle section of the body to 30 degrees but that just didn't look right, so I re-cut it to 60%. I am happier with the look, but think it would be more functional if I cut a radius instead of the straight line slope. (see red outline - note I have told you I can't draw).

I reduced the size of the tote to a height of 100mm. I will roughly rasp to roundish shape and check that it is still big enough for my hand and comfortable to hold. I haven't turned a ball for the front grip yet, i will wait until I am satisfied with the tote and then size the ball appropriately and reduce the lenght of the forward section to provide a better visual balance.

Comments and recommendations are always appreciated.

Cheers
Bob

[Bushmiller]

Bob

It is good to see the mock up and I will be at least partially going down that path.

I think you do need more room for shaving removal/clearance. although exactly how much is the big question. Will you be using a wooden dowel to secure the wedge in the final version? If so I am concerned that the size (I am assuming 10mm or 12mm) and shape will tend to be a barrier for shavings too resulting in clogging. I realise you may have gone to that size for strength. An alternative may be some refinement of the dowel shape admittedly at the possible expense of strength or go to a brass/steel pin. In metal 6mm would be ample. Just a thought. Steel in particular could be salvaged from something lying around probably

Regards
Paul

[Simplicity]

Made use of the old Pallet billets and screwed together the body & rear cheek,set Iron, wedge and wedge pin into position and hot glued the tote into position.

482874
A couple of problems are evident.

Wedge needs thinning down and reshaping to provide more room for chip removal.

Originally, I cut the angle for the front middle section of the body to 30 degrees but that just didn't look right, so I re-cut it to 60%. I am happier with the look, but think it would be more functional if I cut a radius instead of the straight line slope. (see red outline - note I have told you I can't draw).

I reduced the size of the tote to a height of 100mm. I will roughly rasp to roundish shape and check that it is still big enough for my hand and comfortable to hold. I haven't turned a ball for the front grip yet, i will wait until I am satisfied with the tote and then size the ball appropriately and reduce the lenght of the forward section to provide a better visual balance.

Comments and recommendations are always appreciated.

Cheers
Bob

Bob,
A mock up is a good thing.

Agreed a radius might give the chips a easier ejection!!.

Cheers Matt.

[Mountain Ash]

Hi Bob and Paul. I have made a couple of woodies with a 12mm dowel in about the same spot and they work okay. Shavings don't curl out the front like a cast iron plane but seem to get far enough away from the mouth. I have used chip breakers though and this would create a slightly different geometry.

[Mountain Ash]

Just saw Matt's post. Your billet height is lower than mine and this would help with shaving ejection.

[Oldgreybeard]

The mock up height is 40mm but the Mahogany has not been ripped to final height yet so I can go to 50mm. I'm in 2 minds as to which way to go - I would appreciate members comments on their experiences.

Cheers
Bob