Challenge 2020-21 Aussiephil

[Aussiephil]

Looks like i'm now in and i think i'll aim for something different and hope that i can pull it off.

I've got a plan (or should that be plane) in mind but need to start at seemingly the wrong end by doing the blade and chipbreaker before even getting to the body.

So to that end today I 3D printed some vice parallels for the mill that will let me do an initial mock up of the blade in ALU before committing to steel.
480456
The angles printed are a hint to the design I have in mind

480455
The little mill with some steel plate but it's not thick enough so looks like a trip to ebay will be needed. I need the facing cutter to get off the slow boat from China to get started so may just print up a plastic mock up first.

Like just about everyone I have too many projects on the books including the new work bench that at 4M long should finally give me some working space
480453

Oh and inline with the whole messy bench this has got to go close to taking a prize, this is the new mobile outfeed/general duties bench that hasn't even got the top sheets fixed down and already it's covered with toys.

480454

So what i'm aiming for is some originality points along with fit for purpose .... looks will be in the eye of the beholder...
Once i get something better drawn in Fusion360 I should get some renderings up.

Blades to the battle...

Phil

[Mountain Ash]

Sounds intriguing Phil. And a messy workbench is a sign of creativity. We all know that.....right.....?

[Oldgreybeard]

Crickey Phil you got me all excited - I thought you were going to enter a 3D printed plane. Now that would really set the bar for the challenge. Looking forward to seeing where you go with this

Bob

[Aussiephil]

Sounds intriguing Phil. And a messy workbench is a sign of creativity. We all know that.....right.....?

It's certainly a sign of something.... at the moment it's more a case for me that i'm continually moving bits around to reshuffle and build and having nowhere yet to better organise ... (where are my kreg screws!)


Crickey Phil you got me all excited - I thought you were going to enter a 3D printed plane. Now that would really set the bar for the challenge. Looking forward to seeing where you go with this

Bob

Bob that is a scary accurate, but let's say it's going to be a hybrid build due to an exciting (to me) design idea i had this morning that may even include dovetail work and an old railway sleeper.

I hate it when ambition likely far exceeds talent but then it wouldn't be a challenge would it?

Cheers
Phil

[Cklett]

Omg, what are you planning? 3D printing, dovetails, railway sleeper....

It's just getting more and more mysterious.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Bushmiller]

Wow Phil.

I was going to make a supercilious remark about you 3D printing a plane, but you have "virtually" done it aready!

Don't worry about the clutter on the bench. I am just surprised it has not evoked a comment from Matt.

Regards
Paul

[Aussiephil]

Omg, what are you planning? 3D printing, dovetails, railway sleeper....

It's just getting more and more mysterious.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Wow Phil.

I was going to make a supercilious remark about you 3D printing a plane, but you have "virtually" done it aready!

Don't worry about the clutter on the bench. I am just surprised it has not evoked a comment from Matt.

Regards
Paul

I've spent a couple of days reading now on the traditional Japanese Kanna plane and i'm reasonable certain that it will be possible to 3d print the main body both accurately and stiffly enough to function correctly

The dovetail and railway sleeper is about machining two inserts for the base from some old aged hardwood to provide the contact patches underneath

480474

The concept drawing above doesn't yet include the chipbreaker and as the chip breaker is largely a post ww2 addition to the design I'm considering if it can be made in it's simplist form, body and blade

It's been hard to find dimensional information but getting there now and will expand that out in a more comprehensive post

The only thing might be that the body ends up to light even as a near solid print and printing something that size can be an exercise in frustration as solid parts like that can warp during the print.

[Simplicity]

Wow Phil.

I was going to make a supercilious remark about you 3D printing a plane, but you have "virtually" done it aready!

Don't worry about the clutter on the bench. I am just surprised it has not evoked a comment from Matt.

Regards
Paul


Paul
Just because some seek a higher being
With Aspirations of enlightenment

Cheers Matt.

[Aussiephil]

Wow Phil.

Don't worry about the clutter on the bench. I am just surprised it has not evoked a comment from Matt.

Regards
Paul

and @ Matt as well,

It just dawned on me that I have 4 super cluttered benches including the one on the first post but also one that is surprising clean... so empty the top is not even required yet... :)

[Aussiephil]

The kanna-ba - plane blade is traditional made of two layers, a thin layer of high carbon or high speed steel bonded to a soft iron or soft low carbon steel. With the potential to mill most of the blade i'm planning to use tool steel for the entire blade.

I was lucky to find a lot of info from Kanna sizing and styles. : Tools from Japan, Japanese woodworking tools direct from Japan. (http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=page&id=12&chapter=5), they are no longer trading but all the info is still available.

The blade whilst initially looking simple is after drawing it up and printing a prototype anything but simple. it you add a curve to the top edge there is not a flat surface on any face except the main bevel. 3 degrees seems to be about right for the sides and one face

i have pick a nominal 65mm wide blade that would be used in a 11.5" (290mm) long body ... will have to get the big printer functional, projects to complete to make projects :)
480498480499

you end up with compound angles and nothing is simple. this doesn't include the 45 deg mitres that come in from the sides at the blade edge. The shikomi-mizo, blade groove, is tapered in two directions, narrowing as it goes deeper into the body. This taper is matched by the blade, and tightens the grip on the blade, front to back, the further it is driven into the body. This groove must be matched to the blade, too large and the blade will be loose, too tight and the blade cannot be adjusted.


The bevel angle is currently set at 25 deg and the Blade angle is 41 deg. I have chosen 41 as a compromise between a lower angle for softwoods and higher for harder timbers .... though as the challenge is to make pine shavings may need to lower it a bit

480496

The picture below shows how the blade sits in the body and the relationship to the timber to be planed
480497

Hopefully that explains a little more about this simple plane :)

[Cklett]

Wow, seems you are racing ahead.

In regard to blade angle. If the traditional Japanese is 41* then I'd stick with it.

Planes with 45* produce nice shavings on pine. No need to lower it. I am sure the 41* is fine. And I am not saying this sabotage the competition :-D

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Aussiephil]

Wow, seems you are racing ahead.

In regard to blade angle. If the traditional Japanese is 41* then I'd stick with it.

Planes with 45* produce nice shavings on pine. No need to lower it. I am sure the 41* is fine. And I am not saying this sabotage the competition :-D

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

This is from a number of different sources

Blade Angles
Softwood - 31 to 40 deg
Medium - 41 to 43 deg
Hardwood - 45-90 deg

The 41 is a compromise in some ways for the harder timbers I may end up using this on and being effective on some soft pine :)

I'll come to a grinding halt in the next few days as some things coalesce further, design is easy and iterative but turning it into usable product is going to be hard ... learning lots already.

[Simplicity]

Phil,
This is all looking really good, and complicated an just a smidgen over my head,I’ve heard getting into Japanese tools is even more addictive then Western tools.
So I will give them a wide berth,for the sake of my wallet.
But you are really getting into the whole thing,
I’m very envious of the mill and the 3D printer,

Cheers Matt.

[Aussiephil]

In watching a few more videos and doing some pauses it became obvious that i stuffed up reading some dimensional data that resulted in me drawing out the blade design wrong. Rapid prototyping let me see the errors at least:)

So the blade post a couple above is essentially still valid except for the 3 deg slope on the sides .... everything i've managed to find so far points to the older style blades have a slight angle whereas a modern design is straight edged

anyway a new blade prototype is on the printer

[Sheets]

So the blade post a couple above is essentially still valid except for the 3 deg slope on the sides .... everything i've managed to find so far points to the older style blades have a slight angle whereas a modern design is straight edged


If you need any actual measurements for comparison, I have a few 65mm kanna, so can get general average dimension(s) - pics, too if you need. Btw, I think all are tapered in width, even newer ones (referring to those I have, that is). All of mine are either used or new-old-stock, so can't really say how new any are - could still be a couple of decades old.

Steve

[Aussiephil]

If you need any actual measurements for comparison, I have a few 65mm kanna, so can get general average dimension(s) - pics, too if you need. Btw, I think all are tapered in width, even newer ones (referring to those I have, that is). All of mine are either used or new-old-stock, so can't really say how new any are - could still be a couple of decades old.

Steve

Hi Steve, that would be absolutely wonderful and highly appreciated. I did read a couple of articles that said newer style commercial (i guess read cheaper) blades had straight edges.

From what i gather there are a number of key measurements. Lets see if i can list them.

Blade width at the top exit of the body.
Blade width at the bottom before the cutting bevel
Cutting edge length
Blade thickness at the top exit of the body
Blade thickness at the bottom before the cutting bevel

These should give all the required tapers ... I'd sort of expect the taper angles to be relatively consistent across different widths. if so then it becomes easy to have a dimension driven drawing in Fusion360 :)

I'm still tossing up how to keep the high tech 3D materials approach and incorporate some timber inlay to gain some mass.

PS: i did 3D print the revised version and it looks a lot closer to images i have seen, just hadn't grabbed a photo of it yet

[Sheets]

I was lucky to find a lot of info from Kanna sizing and styles. : Tools from Japan, Japanese woodworking tools direct from Japan. (http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=page&id=12&chapter=5), they are no longer trading but all the info is still available.

The blade whilst initially looking simple is after drawing it up and printing a prototype anything but simple. it you add a curve to the top edge there is not a flat surface on any face except the main bevel. 3 degrees seems to be about right for the sides and one face

i have pick a nominal 65mm wide blade that would be used in a 11.5" (290mm) long body ... will have to get the big printer functional, projects to complete to make projects :)
480498480499

you end up with compound angles and nothing is simple. this doesn't include the 45 deg mitres that come in from the sides at the blade edge. The shikomi-mizo, blade groove, is tapered in two directions, narrowing as it goes deeper into the body. This taper is matched by the blade, and tightens the grip on the blade, front to back, the further it is driven into the body. This groove must be matched to the blade, too large and the blade will be loose, too tight and the blade cannot be adjusted.


The bevel angle is currently set at 25 deg and the Blade angle is 41 deg. I have chosen 41 as a compromise between a lower angle for softwoods and higher for harder timbers .... though as the challenge is to make pine shavings may need to lower it a bit

480496

The picture below shows how the blade sits in the body and the relationship to the timber to be planed
480497

Hopefully that explains a little more about this simple plane :)

There should be a little clearance in the blade groove sides to allow some skew adjustment. This also prevents the blade from potentially splitting the dai at the sides where there is the least amount of material - speaking of wood that is (found out the hard way :doh:).

Is your design going to allow for any adjustment to fit the blade? (ie., removal of material if the fit is too tight). I'm certainly curious to see your progress. I think you can say no one has tried this before.

[Sheets]

Ok, no problem. It's getting late here, so I'll work on this tomorrow.

[Aussiephil]

There should be a little clearance in the blade groove sides to allow some skew adjustment. This also prevents the blade from potentially splitting the dai at the sides where there is the least amount of material - speaking of wood that is (found out the hard way :doh:).

Is your design going to allow for any adjustment to fit the blade? (ie., removal of material if the fit is too tight). I'm certainly curious to see your progress. I think you can say no one has tried this before.

The clearance to each side is allowed for at least in my head at the moment for the skew adjustment, easy to allow for in the initial 3D print, i just model the blade fractionally over size and use it to cut the base component in Fusion360.

As I do a lot of work in ABS the first version will be printed in that and it's actually really easy to work with all the normal wood working tools so fit adjustment should go well. the plan is to start around 0.1 to 0.2mm undersize and slowly adjust as per normal as ive seen methods.

[Sheets]

481090481091481092481093481094481095
(pic 1) Selection of 65mm kanna. Basic shape/dimensions are within a couple of mm. All are flat top to bottom (pic 2). Most have some hollow side to side on what the Japanese would call the (omote) front (pic 3 - greatest, pic 4 - least [basically flat]). I think this hollow is more a feature of the laminated construction and heat treatment, and not necessary for function? Of course, there is some hollow on the cutting edge side (ura) to facilitate sharpening.

So using the kanna on the right in pic 1., which is new-old-stock and not been shortened due to sharpening (needs to be sharpened :oo:), as representative of average measurements:

L = 115mm (97mm cutting edge to shoulder, where side meets top)
W = 67mm at the widest part, and 64mm at the cutting edge
T = 7mm thickest at the shoulder, 5.5mm at the beginning of the bevel
Chip-breaker width = 57mm. This will determine the width of the cutting edge and the width of the shaving exit.
Chip-breaker thickness = 5mm tapering to 3mm at the start of the primary bevel (pic 5). This taper is designed to be adjustable for fit by bending the "ears" (pic 6).

The thickness where the blade enters the dai is going to depend on the thickness of the dai and your blade angle. Most wood dai I have are 35mm (+/-). So that point equates to about 60mm from the cutting edge and in my example is 6mm thick.

Hope this helps. Sounds like you've got things well planned out.

[Aussiephil]

Thanks Sheets.

Yes definitely helpful all round and good to see the pics.

As part of the continued shared learning experience the curve you have noted is a individual makers design element and i quote from one of the tools from japan (http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=page&id=9&chapter=5) pages


You may notice a curious word there, kou meaning 'shell'. It does not mean that there is a shell in the blade, only that the shape of the blade represents a kind of shell. Contrary to it's appearance, there are very few straight lines in a kanna-ba, and most prominent is the slight curve across the width of the blade matched by the blade bed as well as the distinct hollow on the blade's back.

The very slight (and occasionally non-existent) width wise curve only really warrants acknowledgement here than an explanation. Regardless, the curve of the blade must be matched by the dai in the blade's bedding area as closely as possible to ensure good, vibration absorbing contact between the blade and body.


Another site i read indicated that it was also used to stop the blade skewing during use and this is logical.

I'm going to guess this is a more common element/feature on blades used without a chipbreaker.

Cheers
Phil

[Sheets]

Thanks for that tidbit of info - I did not know that. The anti-skew feature makes a lot of sense because the Japanese rarely add something that has no apparent purpose. I wouldn't think that the use of a chip-breaker would require any specific change or adaptation to the kanna-ba itself - merely a choice by the craftsperson and the dai drilled to accept one if required. Based on my collection (72mm as well), all with a chip-breaker except one have the hollow. So hollow seems more the rule than the exception.

Anyway, I planely am no expert, so there's lots for me to learn. Thanks for passing your findings on :2tsup:.

[Bushmiller]

Anyway, I planely am no expert .

I suppose we are going to have to endure these puns at least until next March.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

:D

Regards
Paul

[Aussiephil]

I suppose we are going to have to endure these puns at least until next March.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

:D

Regards
Paul

Well i thought that was planely obvious ...... :)

Phil

Flight 2021 is still boarding passengers :)

[Bushmiller]

Well i thought that was planely obvious ...... :)

Phil

Flight 2021 is still boarding passengers :)

Flight 2021 might be the only plane leaving at the moment. :(

Regards
Paul

[Simplicity]

Flight 2021 might be the only plane leaving at the moment. :(

Regards
Paul

This is clearly just plain stupid,
Just get on with making your planes !!!

[Aussiephil]

Have you ever drawn something in humor then had a thought that it may be useful

With all the talk of aeroplanes with humor i had a little muck around in Fusion360 and added some wings onto the plane and then rendered it in red as it will go faster...

481123

Looking at it, as you PULL a japanese plane towards you, ignoring the vertical tail, if the wings don't provide a hand leverage advantage..... :)

[Bushmiller]

Wonderful design Phil

You have in one fell swoop (Not a pun, but heavily weighted, aeronautical imagery embodied in the comment) enhanced your reputation exponentially with at least one judge. Damn! That has just upped the ante to at least three bottles of premium red!!!! And even then I have my doubts it will be enough. All you need now is one WA based judge to take up hang gliding so he can cross the border and I think you are home and hosed!

:cool:

Regards
Paul

[Simplicity]

Have you ever drawn something in humor then had a thought that it may be useful

With all the talk of aeroplanes with humor i had a little muck around in Fusion360 and added some wings onto the plane and then rendered it in red as it will go faster...

481123

Looking at it, as you PULL a japanese plane towards you, ignoring the vertical tail, if the wings don't provide a hand leverage advantage..... :)

Phil,
If you turn those wings upside down, that will enhance your down pressure on the soul of the plane,giving you a decided advantage, in creating more down pressure, like formula 1 Cars.
That might give you a better shaving.

Cheers Matt.

[Aussiephil]

Well look what landed on the workbench.
481190

This is a print done at a 45% of full size as that is about as large as i could fit on the small 3D printer

Below you can see the dovetails that will get hardwood infill to create hard wearing touch points for the sole.

I had some fun creating the one below as at 45% sizing that is 6mm tapering to 5mm wide and 3.5mm high. i chopped a 6mm wide section of a little bit hardwood floorboard, then decked it in the mill to about 5 high, hand sanded the bevels :) inserted into the slot then decked it to height back in the mill

481189

It's tempting to make a thicker version at the width and actually make a blade to fit as it would seem to be a great little size to do bevels.... i'd even leave the wings on as they provide some nice hand hold locations.

[Simplicity]

Well look what landed on the workbench.
481190

This is a print done at a 45% of full size as that is about as large as i could fit on the small 3D printer

Below you can see the dovetails that will get hardwood infill to create hard wearing touch points for the sole.

I had some fun creating the one below as at 45% sizing that is 6mm tapering to 5mm wide and 3.5mm high. i chopped a 6mm wide section of a little bit hardwood floorboard, then decked it in the mill to about 5 high, hand sanded the bevels :) inserted into the slot then decked it to height back in the mill

481189

It's tempting to make a thicker version at the width and actually make a blade to fit as it would seem to be a great little size to do bevels.... i'd even leave the wings on as they provide some nice hand hold locations.

Phil,
I can’t help noticing a kind of headless cartoonish character,
Or is it just my sick sense of reality showing through.

But I think you should win a door prize for the quickest Plane Build.

Cheers Matt.

[Cklett]

Funny, I saw a cactus :-D

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Oldgreybeard]

Definitely a woman with long gown and flowing sleeves. Her head is bent backwards while she washes her hair. Can't see head because photographer took the shot from too low an angle.

Bob

[Aussiephil]

Well after work i thought i would try and mill a blade up for the little model

Had some 50x5 that i cut a section out and went to practice on the mill

I actually got all the tapers on and got to what seems really close. milled a 25 deg bevel, run it over some 600 wet/dry to get it vague sharp... actually it's sharper than all my kitchen knives atm :) It is not hardened btw.

Hammered it in like you do for a normal Kanna, set the skew by feel and grabbed a bit of 42x19.

a couple of bevel passes and i was confident to try it on the 19mm side and got this.

481264

Actual real curvy bits coming out :)

I had some hardwood sections so thought, what happens if i try and bevel the edges.
Sheesh that worked as well.... the big curly bit is pine but the small stuff still in the mouth is from the hardwood
481263

Feeling pretty chuffed right at the moment

[Simplicity]

Well after work i thought i would try and mill a blade up for the little model

Had some 50x5 that i cut a section out and went to practice on the mill

I actually got all the tapers on and got to what seems really close. milled a 25 deg bevel, run it over some 600 wet/dry to get it vague sharp... actually it's sharper than all my kitchen knives atm :) It is not hardened btw.

Hammered it in like you do for a normal Kanna, set the skew by feel and grabbed a bit of 42x19.

a couple of bevel passes and i was confident to try it on the 19mm side and got this.

481264

Actual real curvy bits coming out :)

I had some hardwood sections so thought, what happens if i try and bevel the edges.
Sheesh that worked as well.... the big curly bit is pine but the small stuff still in the mouth is from the hardwood
481263

Feeling pretty chuffed right at the moment


Phil,
That is seriously impressive stuff,
I would not have believed you if you at told me about that.
That’s actually pretty cool,

Wonder what the Judges will think ?.

Cheers Matt.

[Bushmiller]

Phil

You need a T-shirt:

"Plastic Fantastic."

Regards
Paul

[Aussiephil]

Phil,
That is seriously impressive stuff,
I would not have believed you if you at told me about that.
That’s actually pretty cool,

Wonder what the Judges will think ?.

Cheers Matt.

Thanks Matt, i was having some trouble believing it worked as well....

Note to judges: this is firmly in the Proof of Concept part of the build and not a formal entry... but if there are bonus points for creativity and getting into the spirit of the puns for the last week then i won't say no :)


Paul: mmmm i have an account with a custom t-shirt place :)


A couple more photo's of the blade, it was a mix of use the DRO and angle gauges and just eyeball it it will be close measuring.

The good camera doesn't hide the tooling marks that's for sure.

Sitting on the cutting mat it's easy to see the top to bottom taper, its a bit harder to pick out the 3deg taper on the body above the blade bevel. Might redo this for some practice.

481269481270

[Simplicity]

Thanks Matt, i was having some trouble believing it worked as well....

Note to judges: this is firmly in the Proof of Concept part of the build and not a formal entry... but if there are bonus points for creativity and getting into the spirit of the puns for the last week then i won't say no :)


Paul: mmmm i have an account with a custom t-shirt place :)


A couple more photo's of the blade, it was a mix of use the DRO and angle gauges and just eyeball it it will be close measuring.

The good camera doesn't hide the tooling marks that's for sure.

Sitting on the cutting mat it's easy to see the top to bottom taper, its a bit harder to pick out the 3deg taper on the body above the blade bevel. Might redo this for some practice.

481269481270

Phil,
Is that 38 mm wide 01 Tool steel?

Cheers Matt.

[Aussiephil]

Phil,
Is that 38 mm wide 01 Tool steel?

Cheers Matt.

Nah I wish, it was just a section cut out of basic 40x5 flat bar from bunnings that I had lying around. Being low carbon I won’t be able to harden it either but it’s good for practice on machining the blade shape.
‘the bit of bar I have is cupped bad enough that by the time I flatten both sides it’s under 4mm thick. At least now I think I’ve got the milling order sorted with respect to holding it in the vice

cheers
Phil

[Oldgreybeard]

Most impressive Phil. First completed plane that has been posted - congratulations

Cheers
Bob

[Cklett]

Definately better than this one

Import Tool Madness: PLASTIC hand plane. ($3.80; free shipping) - YouTube (https://youtu.be/t7sl2qyLOjM)

You should get that design protected asap!

I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't show up on one of these cheap shopping sites......

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Aussiephil]

Well it might have been done as a bit of humor to fit in with all the plane puns and a small proof of concept but I spent quite a bit of time today ripping some of my floor boards to make some French cleats and then started sanding the edges to break sharp edges and thought “what am I doing this the hard way” and reached for this little plane. Even with the unhardened blade it work fine to give a small bevel that only then took a couple of swipes with some 240 to finish

My confidence is now high I can pull off a full size version :)

[Aussiephil]

Finally a small bit of momentum again, son dropped off a leaf spring that will yield a few blades.
483906

There is at least a 100mm section each side of the centre hole that appears relatively flat as a starting point

483905

I didn't grab a photo of the measurement not counting the radius but it was close to 70mm so that is near spot on design goals.

It is 13mm thick though so i either design for the thickness or take some time on the mill to get down to 10... my first thought is a nice heavy blade will be good.

[Bushmiller]

Phil

I enlarged the pix to get a good look at your leaf spring. It looks good and with your milling machine you will be able to get an excellent surface after annealing and flattening. It will be interested to see how the thick blade goes as I have the same thing.

Regards
Paul

[Simplicity]

We should almost have a sub category for planes originating from car Junk.
Good to see some action Phil !
13 mm thick plane iron wow,
Well at least you won’t need to use a sharping guide to sharpen that bevel, if you use a full flat bevel.

Cheers Matt.

[Aussiephil]

With all this action on other build threads and likely my bench build will get delayed a couple weeks at least whilst the new thicknesser takes a round trip back to the vendor to investigate a depth of cut issue the thoughts of planes has reinvigorated my love. :) or better said i need to get off my and do something.

the plan to build the body on the 3D printer will need to go out the window as the large printer is not yet re-commisioned so I'm having a semi change in direction.

The section of the Kanna that holds the blade and provides the escape path for the shavings will still be 3D printed as an insert into the main body, the main body will be made out of spare hardwood i have lying around at the moment as it really is just a simple block of wood with some milling to be done on it.
The 3D printed insert holding the blade means it could accommodate any blade with adjusting the body.....

Sounds simple when i type it but I'll bet it's not. :)

Cheers
Phil

[Chief Tiff]

Glad to hear you’re back in the running!

Now we just need to give it a name; as it is a hybrid perhaps something like “Prius”?

[Cklett]

With all this action on other build threads and likely my bench build will get delayed a couple weeks at least whilst the new thicknesser takes a round trip back to the vendor to investigate a depth of cut issue the thoughts of planes has reinvigorated my love. :) or better said i need to get off my and do something.

the plan to build the body on the 3D printer will need to go out the window as the large printer is not yet re-commisioned so I'm having a semi change in direction.

The section of the Kanna that holds the blade and provides the escape path for the shavings will still be 3D printed as an insert into the main body, the main body will be made out of spare hardwood i have lying around at the moment as it really is just a simple block of wood with some milling to be done on it.
The 3D printed insert holding the blade means it could accommodate any blade with adjusting the body.....

Sounds simple when i type it but I'll bet it's not. :)

Cheers
Phil


Awesome! Yes gear up. We should have your plane in the collection. The more variety the better!

[Aussiephil]

489433

Teaser one
one day never i should remove the "clints" price label

[Aussiephil]

Glad to hear you’re back in the running!

Now we just need to give it a name; as it is a hybrid perhaps something like “Prius”?

I think I shall bestow the name

TriPlane

Three coloured woods for the body and three different materials, wood, plastic, metal

489434

I'll leave the glue to setup till Sat now and then trim the body down to final length and width.

That will let if fit in the mill vice and i can take out the insert section for the blade insert, might even start milling the blade up over the weekend.

[Simplicity]

I think I shall bestow the name

TriPlane

Three coloured woods for the body and three different materials, wood, plastic, metal

489434

I'll leave the glue to setup till Sat now and then trim the body down to final length and width.

That will let if fit in the mill vice and i can take out the insert section for the blade insert, might even start milling the blade up over the weekend.

Not sure if we have seen a mill used in the challenge yet.
Phil this could be a first you know.

Cheers Matt.

[Picko]

Go Phil. I'll be in the berra this weekend and I really want a mill. Better lock the shed! :cool:

[Aussiephil]

Go Phil. I'll be in the berra this weekend and I really want a mill. Better lock the shed! :cool:

well if you can carry it out one handed then I just would video first then kneecap you :)

send me a pm if you would like to drop in and have a look, home all weekend at the moment

cheers
phil

[Aussiephil]

Not sure if we have seen a mill used in the challenge yet.
Phil this could be a first you know.

Cheers Matt.

thanks Matt
maybe I will claim two firsts, 3D print and Mill :)

cheers Phil

[Picko]

well if you can carry it out one handed then I just would video first then kneecap you :)

send me a pm if you would like to drop in and have a look, home all weekend at the moment

cheers
phil

I think the schedule will be a bit tight this time Phil and we'll have the mother-in-law in tow also. Thanks anyway.

[Aussiephil]

Well i got impatient and needed a mental break.

The TriPlane reveals it's colours

489514

489515
This will be the sole and looking at the photo i'm fairly sure that the left hand side will be behind the blade.

Here is a pulled back shot for the camera guys showing the remote flash providing some bounce fill :)

489518

Current dimensions are 96mm wide by 296mm long

Final dimensions... the length is set unless but the width could drop down to 90mm yet but that may be a bit thin around the blade.

The current weight of that block is 1.45Kg .... some weight loss to happen as we cut bits out yet :)

[Bushmiller]

Phil

That looks good. Excellent jointing.

Regards
Paul

[Aussiephil]

Phil

That looks good. Excellent jointing.

Regards
Paul

no doubt to the chagrine of the hand tool guys and nearly not in the spirit of building a hand plane the sides of the block are nearly straight off the table saw with the Freud rip blade even the cross cut ends.

cheers
phil

[Simplicity]

no doubt to the chagrine of the hand tool guys and nearly not in the spirit of building a hand plane the sides of the block are nearly straight off the table saw with the Freud rip blade even the cross cut ends.

cheers
phil

But you used your hands no doubt to push the timber blank through the table saw, so that’s hand work, right[emoji6].

Cheers Matt.

[Aussiephil]

Yesterday and today I turned myself over to the metal working gods, and they didn't want to play all that nice

First challenge was to cut the basic blank out of a very heavy duty leaf spring.

489609

No idea what the spring is out of but it is 75+ mm wide and around 12mm thick.

Pulled the trusty metal cut off saw out with the original but only about 10mm worn off it metal blade and after about 15minutes of not really getting more than a few mms into the spring i gave up and visited Bunnings to buy a decent and appropriate cut off blade .... score one for using the correct blade again.

489610

I was going to square the edges up but it was just a little to high in the vice standing on edge so got one edge done enough to get a flat surface for the back vice jaw and then squared up the two ends ....

As for the photo above a Kana blade has around a 3 degree face bevel so i have decked the side not showing and have started on getting the 3 deg bevel on the other side.
The plan is for the bevel to go back around 70mm then the rest will just be flat.

The carbide insert face fill is 50mm in size and seems to be doing just fine, at 0.1mm per layer :). getting nice clean spiral chips that are blue, i would take a bigger cut but the mill is not currently bolted down.
Before the MW guys freak the blank has now been moved further into the vice... i really need those 3deg spacers to be a bit lower for this chunk of steel.

Work got delayed when next door neighbor brought in a box of number 5 biscuits and we made a dent in the stock in the beer fridge :)

Cheers
PHil

[Sheets]

Work got delayed when next door neighbor brought in a box of number 5 biscuits and we made a dent in the stock in the beer fridge :)

Cheers
PHil
Hence the request for a time extension (more days to finish the plane plus a few hours for the hangover)?

[Mountain Ash]

Hi AP. What are number 5 biscuits?

[Bushmiller]

Hi AP. What are number 5 biscuits?
MA

Slightly more than four and and a little bit less than six.

:shrug:

Regards
Paul

[Aussiephil]

Hi AP. What are number 5 biscuits?

Ignore Paul even if a technically correct answer :)

i likely should have said size 5 Bix Biscuits

https://www.bix.com.au/pictures

So i have Size 10 and size 5 now but at this time i don't think i have a cutter to work with the size 5 ones. :)

haven't used the biscuit joiner since last time I made speaker cabinets and that's been a few years now.

Edit: some more info
----------------------------
This is taken from their website, so looks like I can use them and when to use them..

Bix. Size 5.
36 mm Long, 25 mm Wide, 3.85 mm Thick. With a 120 degree cut-out on one end. So as to not protrude into the inside corners of timber frames Fits in a slot cut by a standard biscuit cutting machine with a 100 x 4 mm kerf blade.

From 1987 to 1994 we used Flooded Gum for our wood biscuits. By March 1994 good quality Flooded Gum became very hard to get and very pricey, as the "greens" shut up the forests around Mt Lindsay. So on the 28th of March 1994 we moved from Beenleigh QLD, to Port Macquarie NSW to take advantage of the huge supply of locally grown Poplar from a Sawmill at Kempsey. Poplar is a softish, but very tough stringy hardwood ideal for wood joinery. But by the end of 2004 the huge supply of Poplar began to run out as it was mostly wasted on manufacturing timber pallets. In 2005 we started sourcing Hoop Pine from QLD.

The box i have and the box i was given are likely made from popular given the age of the boxes, need to see if there is info on the boxes.

[Aussiephil]

Hence the request for a time extension (more days to finish the plane plus a few hours for the hangover)?

I'll take a few hours for the not quite hangover.... but i'm already ok with the end date even if i'm behind .... though I won't be sad if an extension was to occur.... just don't make it a long extension.

Cheers
Phil

[Mountain Ash]

Ignore Paul even if a technically correct answer :)

i likely should have said size 5 Bix Biscuits

https://www.bix.com.au/pictures

So i have Size 10 and size 5 now but at this time i don't think i have a cutter to work with the size 5 ones. :)

haven't used the biscuit joiner since last time I made speaker cabinets and that's been a few years now.

Edit: some more info
----------------------------
This is taken from their website, so looks like I can use them and when to use them..

Bix. Size 5.
36 mm Long, 25 mm Wide, 3.85 mm Thick. With a 120 degree cut-out on one end. So as to not protrude into the inside corners of timber frames Fits in a slot cut by a standard biscuit cutting machine with a 100 x 4 mm kerf blade.

From 1987 to 1994 we used Flooded Gum for our wood biscuits. By March 1994 good quality Flooded Gum became very hard to get and very pricey, as the "greens" shut up the forests around Mt Lindsay. So on the 28th of March 1994 we moved from Beenleigh QLD, to Port Macquarie NSW to take advantage of the huge supply of locally grown Poplar from a Sawmill at Kempsey. Poplar is a softish, but very tough stringy hardwood ideal for wood joinery. But by the end of 2004 the huge supply of Poplar began to run out as it was mostly wasted on manufacturing timber pallets. In 2005 we started sourcing Hoop Pine from QLD.

The box i have and the box i was given are likely made from popular given the age of the boxes, need to see if there is info on the boxes.

They don't look very tasty!

[Simplicity]

They don't look very tasty!

A Beaver might find them taste !!

[Sheets]

Yeah, I thought they were something to snack on with the beers - they're probably gluten-free, though (but probably taste better).

[Aussiephil]

Yeah, I thought they were something to snack on with the beers - they're probably gluten-free, though (but probably taste better).

:) i've eaten some very tasty home baked (not mine) glutten free cakes and biscuits. :)

Lets says beavers would really love them and they may worked dipped in strong coffee, be certainly chewy and hence non fattening biscuits :) because intake would be limited :)

[Aussiephil]

OK I stopped walking past the mill after work today and got a bit more done on the blade. Taking 0.1mm off at a time is so different to slicing up or planing timber :)

489768

The red highlight on the right is the blade bevel to be removed yet. The 3deg is done with one side squared up, the side you cant see is not done yet.

Once the left and right sides are all square they go back in for a subtle angle to be cut I think.

Looks like the body of the blade will finish around 70mm wide, it's 12.4mm thick at the top and 8mm at the bottom

On the left ie top of the blade in use i think I should round the corners off like a traditional kanna blade

Cheers
Phil

[Simplicity]

Phil that’s quite a transformation from crappy rusty Leaf spring, to nearly shiny metal.
Well done.

I so need a Mill.

Cheers Matt.

[Picko]

I so need a Mill.



We all do Matt, but no-one more than me. :)

[Aussiephil]

A little more done, thinking now about doing a real mirror finish on the blade.

Spent a couple hours now on the belt sander to get rid of any milling marks, now to work up the grits to get rid of the sanding marks.

Need to bevel the sides yet to final dimensions and then start to work on the custom printed inside for the wooden body.

We should finish dimension at 12mm thick at the top, 8mm thick before the blade cutting bevel. 70mm wide at the top and i think 68mm at the blade.

491795 491796

:) had to check the weight -> 673grams, be interesting how much comes off when we finish the cutting bevel and the radius on the top corners

So still in the extended race :)

[Simplicity]

Please explain “I need to work up the grits”
I WANT to know at what grit stage I stop on my blade.[emoji6]

Phil, you can’t beat a mirror polish on Tool steel, but boy do you have to work for it.

Cheers Matt.

[Sheets]

Glad to see some progress - that's quite the slab of steel! I just weighed one of my blades (65mm wide) and its only 324g.

Steve

[Bushmiller]

A little more done, thinking now about doing a real mirror finish on the blade.

Spent a couple hours now on the belt sander to get rid of any milling marks, now to work up the grits to get rid of the sanding marks.

Need to bevel the sides yet to final dimensions and then start to work on the custom printed inside for the wooden body.

We should finish dimension at 12mm thick at the top, 8mm thick before the blade cutting bevel. 70mm wide at the top and i think 68mm at the blade.

491795 491796

:) had to check the weight -> 673grams, be interesting how much comes off when we finish the cutting bevel and the radius on the top corners

So still in the extended race :)

Phil

That blade is looking so shiny!

I may have to work out a strategy for my leaf springs. ( I have just had a thought will Simplicity's "Body" be wearing an L-Spring?). I may have to enlist some help as going back to clean metal with W & D is an awful lot of rubbing. My thick blades are nearly 10mm and will have to reduce to 9mm to end up with clean metal.

Regards
Paul

[Simplicity]

Phil

That blade is looking so shiny!

I may have to work out a strategy for my leaf springs. ( I have just had a thought will Simplicity's "Body" be wearing an L-Spring?). I may have to enlist some help as going back to clean metal with W & D is an awful lot of rubbing. My thick blades are nearly 10mm and will have to reduce to 9mm to end up with clean metal.

Regards
Paul

There is no way the body is dropping to those underneath standards.

Thank you very much.

[doug3030]

I may have to enlist some help as going back to clean metal with W & D is an awful lot of rubbing. My thick blades are nearly 10mm and will have to reduce to 9mm to end up with clean metal.

Angle grinder could remove a fair bit of metal quite rapidly. With a little practice you can do very accurate work that way. I know knifemakers who use that technique to make very good knives.

If you have a belt sander you might be able to get the right sized metal-grinding belt to fit on it. It would not work as well as a proper metal belt grinder as the speed will be too slow but it would work up to a point.

[Aussiephil]

Please explain “I need to work up the grits”
I WANT to know at what grit stage I stop on my blade.[emoji6]

Phil, you can’t beat a mirror polish on Tool steel, but boy do you have to work for it.

Cheers Matt.

Please explain: just me being economical with words ... up through the grits

I started at 60 and the above is 80. I have 120 next in the green Zirconia set, man those things are sharp if you touch them when running :)

I have 120, 240, 600, 1000 on the way in Aluminum Oxide

All that is on the cheap belt/disc machine and no hotter than me fingers can tolerate.

Once I hit 1000 a bit of time at 1600 wet and dry should see a finished shine, a can get out as far as 4000 but even 1600 will be tedious

Cheers
Phil

[Aussiephil]

Angle grinder could remove a fair bit of metal quite rapidly. With a little practice you can do very accurate work that way. I know knifemakers who use that technique to make very good knives.

If you have a belt sander you might be able to get the right sized metal-grinding belt to fit on it. It would not work as well as a proper metal belt grinder as the speed will be too slow but it would work up to a point.

Mines on the "im a cheapskate" ryobi belt/disk bench sander, the zirconia belts have made a big difference to the material removed

The angle grinder with even the finer grades of flap disks can end up taking a big bite and leaving grooves that are just too deep.... good for doing the radius corners though :)

Cheers
Phil

[Aussiephil]

I've walked past the blade to many times and decided to spend some time standing at the sander, about half way with 600, had to jump from 240 to 600... really want a 400 grit belt

For anyone that missed it, that is from a large left spring and it's all been milled and sanded without any heat treatment to make it easier.... it's been interesting.

495151 495152

Body and blade, really need to marry these two together, brought the blade in to measure up and design the 3D printed insert.

small progress but at least it's something

[labr@]

So does that mean that you will cut a relatively simple cavity in the body to accept the insert which will then hold the blade?

[Simplicity]

I've walked past the blade to many times and decided to spend some time standing at the sander, about half way with 600, had to jump from 240 to 600... really want a 400 grit belt

For anyone that missed it, that is from a large left spring and it's all been milled and sanded without any heat treatment to make it easier.... it's been interesting.

495151 495152

Body and blade, really need to marry these two together, brought the blade in to measure up and design the 3D printed insert.

small progress but at least it's something

Phil,
Is your blade still in its soft state.?

Cheers Matt.

[Aussiephil]

Phil,
Is your blade still in its soft state.?

Cheers Matt.
It still in whatever state it was as a spring…

cheers
phil

[Aussiephil]

So does that mean that you will cut a relatively simple cavity in the body to accept the insert wich will then hold the blade?

Well relatively simple V shaped cutout I think, I’ll draw it up in F360 and see what works. Thinking as I typed this I might end up milling out a section for the insert.
Cheers
phil