CBN, Tormek or both

[woodtryer]

I see a lot of woodturners sharpening their gouges and other turning tools on CBN wheels and pondered whether this or a Tormek gave the best edge.... Or does one use a CBN wheel to reshape or remove dings from the cutting edge and then go to the Tormek for a final sharpen?

Maybe that would be an overkill but I'm interested in peoples thoughts on one, the other or using both.

Thanks Peter

[Chris Parks]

If you don't want to fall asleep when sharpening then avoid the Tormek and use a CBN wheel on a bench grinder which will do the same job in about the tenth of the time. The Tormek does a very good job but oh so slow.

[Cgcc]

G'day woodtryer

There is a lot of literature around on the subject.

I doubt too many rely go from a CBN wheel to a Tormek. Both are too coarse for honing, as opposed to establishing profiles/bevels before honing an edge.

And more importantly to go from a CBN wheel to Tormek you would need to have your sharpening jig or holder identical for both setups so that you are hitting the same geometry on successive wheels.

That is a huge pain.

[tonzeyd]

Hi Woodtryer,

I have a CBN and a whetstone grinder (not tormek). Both have their pros and cons.

CBN is without doubt faster, but the biggest drawback is the lack of dust suppression. A con of it being fast is it's also easy to take too much off.

Whetstone grinders are slow, but that is also the beauty of it. It allows grinds cooler, has perfect dust suppression and allows the user to have full control of the grind.

I use the CBN to initially sharpen the tool or when I want to reshape the tool. Once i get the profile I'm after I only use the whetstone grinder. Which means the CBN wheel isn't used a whole lot these days.

Do you need both? Definitely not, if I were to choose one, im going to disagree with others and go with the whetstone. Yes takes longer, but that's only an issue when you don't sharpen regularly or when you have a new chisel.

[derekcohen]

Hi Peter

I recently sold my Tormek. It had been unused for about 5 years. The Tormek is not a sharpening system; it is a 220 grit grinder. As a grinder it is bloody slow. Definitely a method for the masochist or the timid. Adding a CBN wheel to the Tormek misses the point - it is not going to grind faster. What I do like about the Tormek is the blade guide. It offers repeatability and precision in an easy package.

The CBN wheels are amazing. They are either made of steel or aluminium, and act like a heat sink. The end result is a cool grind. The other advantage over all other wheel types is that they do not wear out. This means that the surface never needs truing or settings need adjusting. Set once and you are done.

I have been using mainly a 180 grit CBN on a half-speed 8" grinder. I have a 80 grit on the other side for serious grinding/blade restoration work. The 180 is all one needs.

Dust is not an issue. Yes, there is some dust, but it comes off the steel and not off the wheel. It is heavy and does not float in the air. It falls down. Vacuum it up.

Use the grinder with the Tormek BGM-100 tool rests. Best of both worlds.

I began using the CBN wheels with plane blades and bench chisels before anyone else, and I was so excited at this find (which many turners had discovered many years before this!), that I began telling the world. It just took off. Thousands cannot be wrong.

My original review: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/UltimateGrindingSharpeningSetUp.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[tony_A]

G'day Peter
I have both and use both, the Tormek I got about 20 years ago long before I started turning and a half speed grinder with CBN wheels (80&180grit) (as per Derek's photo above) that I got about 3 years ago. As others have said they both have their place. With gouges I grind a primary bevel with the half speed grinder then use the Tormek to sharpen a secondary bevel. I can get quite a few quick resharpens on the Tormek before having to go back to the half speed. I put a 1200 grit CBN wheel on the Tormek several years ago when the stone wheel needed replacing and anything other than touching up secondary bevels is exceedingly slow. It takes a quick pass to sharpen the secondary bevel in the order of 15 seconds.
You definitely dont need both and if I was starting out I would get a double end grinder, regular speed, with 80 and probably 320 or 600 grit CBN wheels.
Which ever way you go Tormek have an excellent range of jigs that would be worth considering.

[BobL]

This chart is from https://graffdiamond.com/files/common/tech-notes-013522.pdf

Once it get you head around it chart you will see it shows that the most efficient removal of stock using a Dry CBN wheel on an 8" grinder is between 1450 and 2850 rpm. the lower speed will produce slower grinding but with more control and VV.

If you go below this range the grinding rate becomes relatively inefficient - a potential problem is then that the slow rate of grind may lead to operators pushing harder which may damage the wheel.

If wet grinding is used even higher speed are recommended.
481096

FWIW I have my two 8" CBN wheels on a variable speed (up to 3600 rpm) grinder but run these wheels at ~2850 rpm.

The older (6 years old) 180g CBN wheel is nowhere near as efficient as when I first got it, probably because I have also used it to grind hard Crobalt bits for my MW lathe.

The older wheel still works but now behaves more like a higher (240-320) grit wheel which is why I bought another 180g wheel.

[derekcohen]

I need to qualify my earlier post and add that my choice if grit is for a hand plane blades and bench chisels, not lathe chisels. Tony’s selection is a better selection for the latter. My turning is largely limited to spindles, and my experience here over the years reinforces the preference of a bench grinder over a Tormek.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[woodtryer]

I've just been reading all your very informative relpies. I guess something I was not thinking about was the issue of matching the two setups perfectly if i thought that going from CBN to Tormek was an option. This however doesn't seem to be of any advantage unless as Tonzeyd said you are using the Tormek for a more controlled resharpen.

My knowledge on CBN is obviously well out of date as i believed that 240grt was about as good as they got but tony_A is running a 1200grt, well above what i thought was the finest available.

Derek, one question i have is that you said the Tormek is only 220grt but tbey say you can "condition" the stone to 1000grt ??? Is that not correct?

Everyone has given me plenty to think about and i am curious to hear about this so called "conditioning" of the Tormek stone.

Thanks for all your feedback.

Peter

[derekcohen]

Derek, one question i have is that you said the Tormek is only 220grt but tbey say you can "condition" the stone to 1000grt ??? Is that not correct?

Peter, that is "correct". Take it with a pinch of salt.

What I mean is that 220 grit grinds a blade, but 1000 grit does not do a whole lot more than this. When I use waterstones to sharpen a blade, I start with 1000 grit - it is at the low end of the ladder.

Frankly, I think that one should call a spade as spade - the Tormek is a grinder and, as such, I would rather grind at 220 grit than 1000 grit ... what is the point of the latter? It's a bit of this and a bit of that, and not much of anything.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[yvan]

Thank you all for this very informative discussion!

I raised the question of grinder speed selection in another thread a few months ago and I am still unsure about what to do. I have a full speed grinder and I read that a 180 grit CBN will be quite aggressive at 2850 RPM then, when the wheel settles, it will be less so. And, knowing this, to be more "careful" when grinding with a new wheel.

I would consider the purchase of a half-speed machine but, if it is not essential, could use the funds towards the cost of CBN wheels.

I feel like I am sitting on the proverbial fence, unable (unwilling?) to make the decision!!

All opinions, suggestions and/or advice will be gratefully received!!!

Cheers Yvan

[tony_A]

As the OP's initial question was framed in the context of sharpening bowl gouges and other wood turning tools you need to be clear on what you want to achieve. For a bowl gouge I like a primary bevel at about 35 degrees then a secondary of 45deg. This allows the gouge to transition around the inside of a bowl while still riding on the bevel at the cutting edge of the tool. With just a primary bevel the gouge starts to ride on its heel on sharper concave curves. Some professional turners advocate removing even more of the heel on a gouge with what is effectively a tertiary bevel.
With a secondary bevel on by gouge which may only be 1mm wide the 1200 grit Tormek is perfect for sharpening it. It only requires a light touch to sharpen, not much more than a hone. Having a fine wheel for this leaves a better edge than a coarse wheel and gives much more control over the rate of steel removal on a fine secondary bevel. Having said that I couldn't justify buying a Tormek just for this but as I already have one Ill keep sharpening this way.
Sharpening regular woodworking tools is a different proposition and I rarely use the Tormek for that.

[tonzeyd]

Replicating the setups on both grinders is easy, especially if you go with the tormek jigs. The BGM-100 bench grinder kit is all you need plus is a good idea anyway as the stock tool rest on most grinders isn't very useful. If you then get the gouge jig (SVD-185) it comes with a tool rest setting jig which you physically can't make it simpler to setup. The jig accounts for differences in wheel sizes so automatically adjusts as your whetstone grinder wheel decreases in size. Yes this adds up, but imo worth it. I'm sure if you're a professional turner who sharpens everything by hand you'll disagree, but im not. So id rather enjoy turning rather then focus on sharpening.

I'm the same as Tony_A, couldn't justify the Tormek, just for gouges so i went for the cheaper route and ended up with the Scheppach. Compared to the Tormek, its rough as guts. Came close to junking it, as no matter what i did to it, couldn't get the wheel to run true. However it takes the Tormek jigs, and for turning tools the slight elliptical wheel rotation doesn't seem to cause any dramas. Wouldn't touch a bench chisel/plane blade with it though, unless you want a slight skew in your tools.

To justify the Tormek, you really need to be invested into the model, ie buying the jigs, sharpening loads of different tools. As the Tormek grinder is a do it all solution, and like most things that are one size fits all, it'll do some things well and other things ok. If thats what you're after or if money is no concern, getting the tormek will be a good buy.

To answer your question yvan, i have 180grit wheel on a full speed bench grinder, yep aggresive as when its brand new, but once you sharpen a few tools it settles down and its a very nice wheel to grind on, fairly quiet, cuts cool and leaves a fairly nice finish. Your tools are sharp after coming off the wheel, but you'll want to take it further as when you experience a chisel/gouge that is truely sharp you'll never go back, its a game changer.

[BobL]

Thank you all for this very informative discussion!

I raised the question of grinder speed selection in another thread a few months ago and I am still unsure about what to do. I have a full speed grinder and I read that a 180 grit CBN will be quite aggressive at 2850 RPM then, when the wheel settles, it will be less so. And, knowing this, to be more "careful" when grinding with a new wheel.

I would consider the purchase of a half-speed machine but, if it is not essential, could use the funds towards the cost of CBN wheels.

I don't think its essential. Even though I could run my grinder at slower speeds I rarely use the CBNs at these speeds and nearly always use 2850 rpm. It takes a little getting used when the wheel is new but it's no big deal.

[justonething]

I've just been reading all your very informative relpies. I guess something I was not thinking about was the issue of matching the two setups perfectly if i thought that going from CBN to Tormek was an option. This however doesn't seem to be of any advantage unless as Tonzeyd said you are using the Tormek for a more controlled resharpen.

My own setup consists of both half-speed grinder and tormek. In fact, I like Tormek so much that I bought my 2nd one recently. I use 220 grit on the half speed to reshape my tools, and then I move to the Tormek fitted with a 1200 wheel to hone the bevel to an edge accurately. I then move the 2nd Tormek to give the edge a good polish.

I have setup the half-speed grinder with the Tormek BGM-100 universal support, and I took the time to line up the universal suport bar to be exactly parallel to the circumferential surface of the grinding wheel. In this way, I only have to setup the jig once and they are used in both the half speed grinder and the Tormek. The bevel ground by the half speed can be matched easily by the 1st Tormek and then the 2nd Tormek.

On the 1st Tormek I have a 1200 grit wheel, It only takes seconds to match the bevel ground by the half-speed grinder and another minute or so to hone the bevel to a fine edge. One can then use the honing paste and the leather wheel afte that to do the next step, which is to polish the bevel and the edge and establish a micro secondary bevel. You can hone the inside of the gouges on the profile leather wheel as well.

I however added an extra step. I installed a 4000 g Japanese water stone on my 2nd Tormek and all I do is to move over to the 2nd Tormek after I finish with the 1200 g wheel, using the same jig and bar height and make a few passes on the water stone. I have a shiny bevel with a very keen and sharp edge on my gouges, in fact on all my tools.

The half-speed grinder is excellent at removing material quickly at 220 grid but it leaves the edge jagged. The resultant edge is not very sharp and your gouges don't cut very well on the lathe and the finish from them quite rough. The advantages of using the Tormek are that:

you can use the many available jigs to hone to the exact original profile of your turning tools.
you can polish the inside of the gouges.
No dusts or overheating issues.

Without a Tormek, one would either have to hone and polish by hand with curve stones or something (is there any curved 4000g+ water stones?) or leave the edge with a rough finish.

There are potentially CBN wheels that are 1000g plus. But in Australia they are only available for a 250mm grinder or a Tormek sharpening system. In the US, I understand you can buy 1000g CBN wheel for a 200 mm grinder, which will improve the edge finish with the half speed grinder.

In my own experience, half-speed grinders and Tormek systems are complementary to each other, rather than a competition between each other. When one complains that a Tormek is slow, they are comparing apple with oranges. When one insists that Tormek is a grinder, not a sharpening system, they are not making full use of Tormek's capability. I initially listened to those argument and I used it as a grinder and felt disappointed. As a grinder, Tormek of course is very slow, turning at 90 rpm. In fact, the physics of a 250mm running at 90 rpm will have the same surface speed of a 200mm grinder running at 112.5 rpm. Comparing to half-speed grinder, a 90 rpm 250 grinder will be expected to be 10 times slower than a 200 mm grinder running at 1450 rpm. Physics tell us that.

But people don't finish their sharpening after they stop at the half speed grinder. They usually go on to hone their tools by hand. It is the honing part of sharpening that a valid comparision can be made:

When you don't count setting up the jig, honing on a Tormek at 90 rpm is definitely faster than honing by hand.
Honing a gouge by hand to a genuinely sharp edge would be even slower and a nice profile would be hard to achieve.
While setting up the jig consumes extra time, but they are still used by a lot of people using a half speed grinder because they allow better precision. If you are already using the BGM-100 for the half-speed, moving it to a Tormek would be so much faster than taking the jig off so that you can hone it by hand.
I can get a razor sharp edge on a gouge with micro secondary bevel with my SJ-4000 water stone with minimal effort.


My conclusion is that using Tormek merely as a grinder will lead to disappointment because physics should have told them not to do that. But Tormek is a excellent honing system, especially on turning tools. BTW I sharpen all my tools with Tormek - knives, secateurs, plane irons, chisels, turning tools (I am only a beginner at turning). It can grind at a stretch, but its not good at it. However it makes an excellent complement to a half speed grinder.

[derekcohen]

It is important to note that the need expressed by the OP is to sharpen lathe chisels. The Tormek may be more than a grinder in this situation. For small lathe gouges it may be ideal.

If you are looking at it from the perspective of plane blades and bench chisels, the powered strop on the Tormek is useless (in my experience) .... I gave up on its inefficiency many years ago.

Keep in mind that these are two different worlds.

I encourage all to search for information on the Unicorn Profile. This may change the way you view sharpening. I use this now on my lathe chisels as well. The difference is that the edges are buffed (not stropped), and the buffer is made of layers of soft linen, and turned at high speed. Polishing compound is used. The results far exceed anything I was able to achieve on a Tormek strop.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Cgcc]

Derek I can enthusiastically concur on the leather wheel.

I bought a Tormek 4 a few months ago. I am quite frustrated already with it. I knew it was reputed to be slow, but not THAT slow.

I have already bought a CBN wheel to fit the Tormek T4 as I an obstinate type and always try and make something work. It failed to work because it is too heavy. I am now just waiting for time to get the grinder setup done. But I think I will keep the Tormek as an option. Something I particularly like is that the jigs are held on the machine so it is actually a very compact unit in terms of bench space.

I think it is worthwhile adding that the Tormek is also very useful for very small jobs where a jig is impractical and your hands will inevitably be very close to the wheel.

An example is a nicker for a Stanley 78. It doesn't need any particular profile, just to be sharp and cut. They are smaller than the size of your thumbnail. But you can literally leave your thumbnail on the wheel to guide it as it does not need much. I also use vice-grips but even then your nice vice-grips will be very close to the wheel.

I have also committed sacrilege and in a lazy moment the other day when I was trying to remove what was left of old nickel plating and rust from a cap iron. It was just the thing for rolling the curved part over the wheel (ie, up and down, not left and right), hands near to the wheel for control, with just enough action to get the plating off and smooth over. Yes, I could have done it on sandpaper or used a wire wheel but it was less work and easier, and advantage of the wet wheel is removing all the dust and crap and all you have to do is tip the water out.

So somewhat ironically - given the marketing - I just find it's an odds-and-sods and cleaning up and rust removal utility item.

This may naturally change if I get into turning work.

[BobL]

. . . . . I think it is worthwhile adding that the Tormek is also very useful for very small jobs where a jig is impractical and your hands will inevitably be very close to the wheel. . . . . .

Some the small MW lathe tool tips I touch up on CBN wheels result in my hands being very close to the CBN wheels. Because of this I tested out how long I could lightly keep a finger on a new CBN wheel starting at slow (~300 rpm) speed and found I could leave it there for many seconds. Because the wheel is metal it actually feels cool at first and warms up depending on how hard you push. Then I worked my way up to higher speeds and even at 2850 rpm I found I could still lightly touch the wheel for at least 5s without feeling any discomfort or skin loss, probably because skin is too soft. On my used wheel I can leave my finger on there at 2850 rpm for more than 10s with no problems.

[justonething]

If you are looking at it from the perspective of plane blades and bench chisels, the powered strop on the Tormek is useless (in my experience) .... I gave up on its inefficiency many years ago.


I do all my plane blade and chisel sharpening exclusively on the Tormek as I would with the turning tools. Generally I don't use the leather honing wheel. I find that the edge to be more than sharp enough after polishing it with the 4000g Japanese water wheel.

[derekcohen]

We will have to agree to disagree, J1T. I use waterstones and freehand on them to 13000 grit. Different strokes and all that thing :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Cgcc]

Hi justonething,

A genuine question though.

Doesn't the cost and setup time start riding up, for using another Tormek wheel? That is what always made me write off that setup.

A new Tormek T8 seems to go for about $1200. Then you are in for $550+ for a waterstone.

Then because the waterstone wears, you have to be very precise with the gauge, and it takes time to adjust your jig, or do things like put marker on the edge to check it is coming off. I find this to be the most fiddly and time consuming part of the exercise for a hone.

I also assume the waterstone is only after a refresh on the stone wheel, because otherwise you will either spend forever to grind the entire bevel on the waterstone and unduly wear it.

For that cost it seems you could have a slow-speed grinder ($300), allow $200 for a BGM-100 and jig, CBN wheel (say $250), utility of spare spindle for a buffing wheel on other side, and you've got a budget that will very easily allow for top-drawer diamond plates and ceramic or waterstones to fine up (or honing plates with paste etc). The plates will also let you do a number of things you can't do with a wheel like honing flat bevels or wonky shaped items like router plane blades (which have a sharp right-angle) or power router bits (on the diamond plates).

I could perfectly understand if you were often doing large planer blades or refreshing kitchen knifes on the regular where the setup time is relatively less than time on the stone (and frankly a kitchen knife doesn't need to be anywhere near as sharp as most woodworking blades), but for say grabbing a 1/2" chisel that has dulled and get it back to screaming sharp, being able to just hit the stones and strops, you're in and out and back to the work in a minute. Whereas you'd still be adjusting the jig on the stone wheel first on a Tormek setup wouldn't you?

(I don't want to start one of 'those' sharpening threads but genuinely curious.)

[tonzeyd]

Hi Cgcc,

i can't speak for Justonething, as from what it sounds like money isn't an issue with his dual Tormek setup. For me cost is a strong deciding factor, but there are other factors. Such as i have RSI in both hands, and using my Veritas honing jig on flat waterstones sometimes does cause my hands to flair up. For now i'm putting up with it, but in my mind i know as as i age it'll probably get worse. When it does i'll either need to get surgery, give up the hobby i love or invest in a system that works for me. Once i reach that hurdle i'll have no hesitation to get the tormek.

So like alot of things the old saying of "your mileage may vary" comes in.

[woodtryer]

After reading all the valuable input maybe the ideal setup for a wood turner is a CBN wheel for the initial grind and then the Tormek with a 4000 grit stone on it ???

Of course there is a cost associated with that setup.

[justonething]

So let me get this right. You have several reasons that make you disinclined to consider a Tormek setup that I'm using, and these are:


the cost difference;
How many stones will you need?
time and effort involved in setting things up in comparison to honing by hand;
You can do it just as well in sharpening by hand;

Am I about right?
Cost:
Well, Tormek is, of course, more expensive and it is a judgement call on how much utility you can get from it vs the money you spend. Buy quality and cry once that sort of thing. I sharpen all kinds of things - knives, secateurs, scissors, turning tools, axes, chisels and plane irons. It also allows me to do precision re-honing of many cap irons. These are the utilities I experience myself. As to the cost, I don't think everybody needs to have an extra Tormek. I could get by with just buying a Japanese water wheel. I noticed that there is a Tormek with every jig that you need for sale (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f221/tormek-t7-sharpening-system-237377). It will be a less expensive way to kit up.
How many stones?


I also assume the Waterstone is only after a refresh on the stone wheel, because otherwise you will either spend forever to grind the entire bevel on the waterstone and unduly wear it.

I reckon you will only need three grades of stones in total. 220g on the half-speed, 1000g stone and a 4000 g stone. Now if you can get hold of a 200 mm 1000g CBN stone and fit it to the half-speed, then a Tormek with a 4000g Japanese Waterstone will be sufficient. I have a philosophy on sharpening that on anything finer than 4000g would make no difference to the final outcome, especially after the edge have met the wood. Many knife sharpeners recommend sharpening beyond sharpening knife beyond 4000~6000 g only if it is used for cutting vegetable. Meat protein will bend the edge sharpened at above 6000 g. Wood should considerably be harder than meat protein I'd think. Also, physics tell us that 13000 g is less than 1 micron, which is the size of a single cell, or a few hundred molecules of iron. Can steel really hold an edge that thin and for how long against wood?
How fiddly is the setting up?

because the waterstone wears, you have to be very precise with the gauge, and it takes time to adjust your jig, or do things like put marker on the edge to check it is coming off. I find this to be the most fiddly and time consuming part of the exercise for a hone.
Let's be precise. The jig is the part of the setup that holds the tool, for example, the square edge jig, that rides on the universal support bar either on Tormek or BGM-100. Having defining that, I'd say the most time-consuming part is fitting the tool in the jig accurately. With that done, all that remains is adjusting the height or distance of the universal bar from the base. If you are using bench grinder mounting kit BGM-100 for your half-speed grinder, you will need to fit the tool in the jig anyway, so that becomes sunk time. All that remains is to adjust the distance of the universal support bar on the Tormek. Using the angle master, you can easily set up roughly the angle, and if you are always sharpening at a particular angle, the height of the bar is almost right anyway. With a sharpie, you can easily match the bevel by manually rotating the wheel and check where marking has been rubbed off. It takes me less than a minute to do that. The beauty of CBN wheels is that the diameter doesn't change. And since the SJ-250 remove so little material, the diameter of that wheel hardly varies either. Even if it goes down slightly, it just becomes a micro secondary bevel. Honestly, I haven't timed myself, but I feel it's less than a minute generally to have it all ready to go.
If you hone by hand, some will do it freehand, and some will use another jig like a Veritas sharpening jig. By the time you remove your tool from the Tormek jig and put on the Veritas, I'd have adjusted the distance of the universal support bar and will be already honing away.
How good is the result?


but for say grabbing a 1/2" chisel that has dulled and get it back to screaming sharp, being able to just hit the stones and strops, you're in and out and back to the work in a minute. Whereas you'd still be adjusting the jig on the stone wheel first on a Tormek setup wouldn't you?
The sharpening action is about moving the tool against a stone while maintaining a fixed geometry. When you sharpen by hand, you move through a few grades of stone, say 600, 1200, 4000, and finally a few strops of those green compounds. On average, a jig is more accurate at holding to a fixed geometry than a human would, especially over the course of a few different plates/stones. Tormek is moving at 90 rpm, that is an equivalent surface speed of 70 meters per minute. I'm sure it is faster than a person pulling the tool over the stones while locking his upper body. On a Tormek, I finish at 4000 g, and that's it. It's short, even including the time it takes to adjust the distance of the universal support bar (<1 min). What more, the result is always consistent. When I plane, I get the feel of a crisp cut every time. When I use a turning chisel, the feel is the same. Consistent and reliable. I have people give me plane irons that have been sharpened to a 13000 g finish, but it doesn't have that same crisp feel when I use it.
That's it. Take it or leave it as you like it. If you are happy with the result of what you are doing, then keep doing it. I'm pleased with mine, even after spending all those coins.

[justonething]

After reading all the valuable input maybe the ideal setup for a wood turner is a CBN wheel for the initial grind and then the Tormek with a 4000 grit stone on it ???

Of course there is a cost associated with that setup.

A 4000 g watersone with a Tormek would be very nice, but if cost is an issue, using the SG-2xx combination stone and the leather stropping wheel with honing compound would give you something workable for turning.

[derekcohen]

As ever, sharpening as a topic brings out more methods and preferences than there are sticks to throw.

With regard sharpening set ups, none are perfect for most others. Some are good guidelines for many. And only a few are perfect for me. This is likely to be the case for you as well. Do your research before making up your mind.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Simplicity]

I see a lot of woodturners sharpening their gouges and other turning tools on CBN wheels and pondered whether this or a Tormek gave the best edge.... Or does one use a CBN wheel to reshape or remove dings from the cutting edge and then go to the Tormek for a final sharpen?

Maybe that would be an overkill but I'm interested in peoples thoughts on one, the other or using both.

Thanks Peter


I think you have answered your own question,

With your first few lines,
Why do a lot of turners use CBN wheels,
Because they work!!!.

It’s a bit like most farmers these days use a tractor to plow there fields,because it’s quicker than using a donkey.
Sure you could use a donkey if you want too.

Cheers Matt.

[Cgcc]

Thanks JIT,

Only a couple of thoughts, though.

1/ Finer grits don't make the bevel thinner if the geometry is the same. A bevel at 25 degrees rough-sharpened to 120 grit has the same nominal edge thickness to a bevel sharpened on a shapton at 16000 grit. The difference is just the coarseness at the edge.

2/ A higher grit though makes the edge smoother. I think there is often a confusion that because the sharpness can "settle down" it means the edge is therefore more fragile. It is not - it is just the extreme smoothness can be lost making it feel more like a degradation.

I would agree that sharpening above 4000 grit has a limited application (for some including me they love it!) in the sense that you can get by without it. And depending on the intended finish, too high can actually cause a problem. But I disagree that is because edge is more fragile per se. A 10,000 grit edge will noticeably lose the 10,000 grit sharpness more quickly than an edge sharpened to 600 grit - but that doesn't mean it will go down to the quality of a 600 grit edge or that somehow a 600 grit edge (say) is more durable.

I think the psychological effect plays a role here. If you've got something screamingly sharp and it's luvverly, then when you lose that, it's quite noticeable because (for example) you can't just push delicately through end grain or glide through a knot. But for something that's only moderately sharp to begin with and which requires a fair bit of effort, there is not a feeling of losing that high-performance

I don't know whether we're at furious agreement but the point about relatively site of grits vs meat particles etc indicates we might not be.

3/ I agree that a jig that mechanically registers the bevel against the abrasive may be more consistently accurate *per stroke* or at all times during contact. But that does not matter if the edge is getting effectively abraded by the grit you are on. If I take 20 swipes on a bevel on a plate using the "Sellers" method for a chisel or plane iron (pushing the bevel away) it is acknowledged you are not always hitting the edge at all times during the stroke (as it moves away from you). And if my technique is developing I may miss it entirely with 10. But if 10 of those 20 strokes hit the edge and a burr has developed it has been just as effective. And if I've done it in less time, I'm still ahead.

But as you say, horses for courses.