challenge 2020 - 2021. banjopicks

[banjopicks]

I'm in. I'm building a left hand skewed jack and this will be my second attempt at building a plane. I hope there's enough time to complete it and thanks for letting me join the fun.

[banjopicks]

Started drawing in Sketchup. I don't have a plan to go by so I'm hoping these angles will suit there purpose.481276481277

[Bushmiller]

banjopicks

You made it. Excellent and welcome. You have until March next year.

:)

Regards
Paul

[banjopicks]

Thanks Paul. Yay, I have time to build a prototype.

[Simplicity]

Thanks Paul. Yay, I have time to build a prototype.

Prototypes seem to be the flavour of the month,
So another prototype would fit right in.

Cheers Matt.

[banjopicks]

Finally finished reading all the contestant threads. This is going to be a wonderful learning experience. So many of your ideas I want to use in the future.

I haven't had any time to do any more work on mine other than gluing up a 2 1/2" X 3" X 14" block of hard maple block. This may or may not be the end all plane for me in this competition. I'm going to attempt to carve it out with chisel and mallet even though I had the opportunity to take the easy route before gluing. I need to see just how difficult it is before going the easy route on future planes. I'm also considering making my own blade but I'm concerned about making the oven.

[Bushmiller]

I'm also considering making my own blade but I'm concerned about making the oven.

What type of steel are you contemplating for the blade?

Regards
Paul

[banjopicks]

O1 for ease of sharpening and heat treating I think. Many years ago when I was a machinist, I hardened a lot of metal with a big torch and a bucket of oil. I don't have a torch like that so I need to do something else.

[Bushmiller]

Depending on your choice of steel I was going to suggest Oxy, but you have already explained that away.

Regards
Paul

[banjopicks]

I'll need to figure this out as I hate paying someone for work that I'm capable of. I can buy steel locally.

[banjopicks]

Last nights glue up went south, unbelievable, of all things. I tossed the whole thing in the scrap bin where it can spend some time thinking about what it's done. I may pull that out of the bucket someday but think I would save myself a lot of time by just building the way they were done back in the day. I'm going to wait until I can get my hands on a solid billet and do it right. I could make a smaller plane but it's not what I want or need right now. One solid hunk of wood, 3X3x16, maybe oak.

[Sheets]

A wood with a close, dense grain (beech, maple, etc.) is best as there are no open pores to catch dirt and grit and mar your finish. If the plane is for more coarse work, this may not be important.

Having said all that, I went against this advice myself and made my first Japanese-style plane out of N.A. white oak (it was easy to get and not so expensive). It worked, but being my first go at plane-making, there were (many) other issues which detracted from it's performance :( (no surprise). But I made more and things got better.
481487 My first two - in those days there wasn't very much how-to information available. But I saved money!

Most Japanese-made planes do use oak, but their species is dense and closed-grained.

[Oldgreybeard]

Just hold the thought - "Learning comes from experience ; both good and not so good experiences"

[banjopicks]

Making some headway on my starter plane. I screwed up the pin holes again so I decided to try this. I don't know of how well it will hold up but I definitely like it more than a pin. I just need to make a medallion to cover the one hoke I made. That'll give me chance to work on my inlay skills.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200928/0982f6702cd02ebf03139df6678faa9f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200928/6ecaef365965a70b82d2099b207e3b4c.jpg

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[banjopicks]

I think if I was to do this again, I'd inset these pieces.

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[Sheets]

Making some headway on my starter plane. I screwed up the pin holes again so I decided to try this. I don't know of how well it will hold up but I definitely like it more than a pin. I just need to make a medallion to cover the one hoke I made. That'll give me chance to work on my inlay skills.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200928/0982f6702cd02ebf03139df6678faa9f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200928/6ecaef365965a70b82d2099b207e3b4c.jpg

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That's coming along well. I think your fix should work.

[Simplicity]

As Sheets said , definitely progress,
You won’t be long before there’s shavings come out.

Cheers Matt.

[Mountain Ash]

Last nights glue up went south, unbelievable, of all things. I tossed the whole thing in the scrap bin where it can spend some time thinking about what it's done. I may pull that out of the bucket someday but think I would save myself a lot of time by just building the way they were done back in the day. I'm going to wait until I can get my hands on a solid billet and do it right. I could make a smaller plane but it's not what I want or need right now. One solid hunk of wood, 3X3x16, maybe oak.

Hi BP. I have made a couple of laminated body planes now and got to try something differernt on the latest one. The idea is simple and came from a YouTube video by a boat builder. Make the billet longer than necessary and drill 2 holes (to match whatever dowel stock you have) through the sides, at each end. Cut the cheeks as normal, cut centre section for bed and throat and when glueing up use the dowels to re align the parts. Once dry cut to length and dowels are gone. Hope that makes sense

[Cklett]

Making some headway on my starter plane. I screwed up the pin holes again so I decided to try this. I don't know of how well it will hold up but I definitely like it more than a pin. I just need to make a medallion to cover the one hoke I made. That'll give me chance to work on my inlay skills.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200928/0982f6702cd02ebf03139df6678faa9f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200928/6ecaef365965a70b82d2099b207e3b4c.jpg

Sent from my SM-A515U using TapatalkComing up nicely. Good thinking on how to fix it. Looking forward how you solve the medallion.

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[Simplicity]

I think we should be calling that a design feature,
Not a fix.
It just sounds nicer.

Cheers Matt.

[banjopicks]

And in that vain, I've removed the wedge stops which was easy with a heat gun, hide glue was used. These are going to be replaced with ebony, which I'll shape before installing. I think that will look great.

The other reason for replacing them is that I had hope a single 1/8" iron would suffice. It did not and there was plenty of chatter so I need to widen the groove to put the Dunlop iron and chip breaker in. If this works as well as I think it will, I'll purchase a new set, maybe another old set.

[banjopicks]

Started planing some ebony for these wedge stops and realized I hadn't done a very good job sharpening my smoother. Really??? Oh well, after giving it a proper sharpening it shaved the ebony so easily, I was giddy with satisfaction.

Here's some pics. I have a different idea as to how I'm going to shape and install these but this is as far as I got last night. My biggest issue was trying to decide which piece of ebony I wanted to cut into. I have a nice little stockpile of it given to me by a friend.

482042482043482044

[Picko]

I wish I had a friend with ebony.

[Simplicity]

The Ebony Design Features, look excellent,
I reckon they will contrast well with the Oak.


Cheers Matt.

[banjopicks]

I wish I had a friend with ebony.If you lived next door I would give you a piece.

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[banjopicks]

The Ebony Design Features, look excellent,
I reckon they will contrast well with the Oak.


Cheers Matt.This is bowling lane hard maple.

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[Simplicity]

This is bowling lane hard maple.

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Sorry,
The Ebony looks fantastic with Bowling lane hard Maple.

Cheers Matt.

[doug3030]

If you lived next door I would give you a piece.

:oo:

[Oldgreybeard]

If you lived next door I would give you a piece.

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I will be on Phillip Island in January. Do you think you could drop in with a couple of pieces?:rolleyes:

[banjopicks]

I have no clue where that is but im sure its a long ways away.

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[Oldgreybeard]

I have no clue where that is but im sure its a long ways away.



About 100km south of Melbourne. A good place for a vacation - come on over:D

[banjopicks]

I would love take a vacation there but I think ebony might get confiscated at the border.

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[banjopicks]

I'm going to start my fourth tote. The first didn't fit the mortise so I made a second. I broke that one trying to remove it with some light taps of a hammer. I had to chisel it out. The third one fits well and I could continue with it but I realized it would be much easier to shape if I left the top and bottom parallel for holding in the vise. I'm also thinking of gluing up a thicker block to cover the mortise edges just in case:rolleyes:.

I also think I need to acquire a better rasp. My micro rasps are shot and the 4 way aint what it used to be. I'm working a lot harder than I should be and I plan on making more and saw handles as well so it's time to upgrade my rasps.

[Simplicity]

I'm going to start my fourth tote. The first didn't fit the mortise so I made a second. I broke that one trying to remove it with some light taps of a hammer. I had to chisel it out. The third one fits well and I could continue with it but I realized it would be much easier to shape if I left the top and bottom parallel for holding in the vise. I'm also thinking of gluing up a thicker block to cover the mortise edges just in case:rolleyes:.

I also think I need to acquire a better rasp. My micro rasps are shot and the 4 way aint what it used to be. I'm working a lot harder than I should be and I plan on making more and saw handles as well so it's time to upgrade my rasps.

A fourth Tote is not a bad thing, I would just say you keep refining the original Tote.
It’s like the old bloke with his favourite hammer, he’s replaced the handle 4 times and the head three times but it’s still his original favourite hammer,

Cheers Matt.

[banjopicks]

The original will be used on another plane. Instead of a 4th tote, I decided to glue the scraps back on the 3rd one. Just a quick gel CA glue up. I think that will accomplish my goal for holding in the vise a little better. This is not a lot different from making guitar and mandolin necks. I have quite a bit of experience with that so I'm sure the end result will be fine and this one is just a test bench plane. Once I get the process down, I'll purchase or find some nicer wood to make the keeper.

[banjopicks]

I suck at this. I can build beautiful F5 mandolins but I can't seem to get a hand plane right. I was planning to buy some O1 steel 3/16" x 3" and make my own blade 2 1/4", so I started the mortise with that in mind. Then I looked at the prices of O1 stock and changed my mind. Now I'll have to add a base to close the mouth and split it down the middle to use the 2" iron and breaker I have. I really don't want to spend any money on this, at least not much.

[Simplicity]

I suck at this. I can build beautiful F5 mandolins but I can't seem to get a hand plane right. I was planning to buy some O1 steel 3/16" x 3" and make my own blade 2 1/4", so I started the mortise with that in mind. Then I looked at the prices of O1 stock and changed my mind. Now I'll have to add a base to close the mouth and split it down the middle to use the 2" iron and breaker I have. I really don't want to spend any money on this, at least not much.

Hate to say it but, as Ian(one of the Judges has said)
Get your iron then build your plane around that.
Keep going you will get there , and don’t forget to show us pics.

Cheers Matt.

[Sheets]

I suck at this. I can build beautiful F5 mandolins but I can't seem to get a hand plane right. I was planning to buy some O1 steel 3/16" x 3" and make my own blade 2 1/4", so I started the mortise with that in mind. Then I looked at the prices of O1 stock and changed my mind. Now I'll have to add a base to close the mouth and split it down the middle to use the 2" iron and breaker I have. I really don't want to spend any money on this, at least not much.

Keep your eye out for some "scrap" steel that has sufficient carbon content to make a plane iron (leaf springs, old brake discs, saw blades, etc.). Or try any local flea markets/yard sales for second hand plane blades of the right size. Or ask us fellow forumites (there should be sufficient time to account for shipping time). There is no rush at this point, so you have the time to search for a solution that you might prefer over using what you have.

Anyway, as Yoda would say, "there is no suck - either do or do not". Some challenges have extra steps, that's all :D.

[banjopicks]

Hate to say it but, as Ian(one of the Judges has said)
Get your iron then build your plane around that.
Keep going you will get there , and don’t forget to show us pics.

Cheers Matt.
I'm on the prowl Matt.


Keep your eye out for some "scrap" steel that has sufficient carbon content to make a plane iron (leaf springs, old brake discs, saw blades, etc.). Or try any local flea markets/yard sales for second hand plane blades of the right size. Or ask us fellow forumites (there should be sufficient time to account for shipping time). There is no rush at this point, so you have the time to search for a solution that you might prefer over using what you have.

Anyway, as Yoda would say, "there is no suck - either do or do not". Some challenges have extra steps, that's all :D.
Stupid Yoda

[banjopicks]

What's the downside of using cheaper 1084 steel?

[Bushmiller]

What's the downside of using cheaper 1084 steel?

In principle the carbon steels are a balance between hardness, edge retention and sharpenabilility. If a blade comes for next to nothing we can probably live with sharpening it a little more frequently. One of the best steels around, for the moment, for plane blades and chisels is PMV-11, but this comes at a price. A lot depends on the type of timber on which we are using our plane. Doug has chart of the type of steels that are found in scrap yards and their typical composition. I have saved it somewhere, but can't find it for the moment. if he sees this post perhaps he could post it for you. I have found leaf spring steel to be very "acceptable" and it is what I am using for my planes, but, no, it is certainly not the best possible.

Found it!

482918
The thing about leaf springs is they are a convenient shape and thickness for our purpose. many other objects would be suitable but would have to be forged into the correct shape.

Regards
Paul

[banjopicks]

Thanks for this. I'm curious, why isn't O1 on this list. I thought that was the one mostly used for tools.

[Bushmiller]

Thanks for this. I'm curious, why isn't O1 on this list. I thought that was the one mostly used for tools.

Good question and I don't really know other than most of that material in the chart is used on components rather than blade tooling and as such was probably selected for strength rather than edge retention.

Regards
Paul

[Sheets]

Good question and I don't really know other than most of that material in the chart is used on components rather than blade tooling and as such was probably selected for strength rather than edge retention.

Regards
Paul

I think, where the chart does point out "tools" (chisels/knives/reamers, etc.), where O2 is listed, O1 would probably be just as likely?

[doug3030]

Thanks for this. I'm curious, why isn't O1 on this list. I thought that was the one mostly used for tools.Good question and I don't really know other than most of that material in the chart is used on components rather than blade tooling and as such was probably selected for strength rather than edge retention.
I think, where the chart does point out "tools" (chisels/knives/reamers, etc.), where O2 is listed, O1 would probably be just as likely?

Possibly because it is a very old chart for one thing. Use the chart with a grain of salt. Many things are now made with newer alloys than the ones indicated on the chart. While in all probability the new alloys will have similar properties to the steels indicated on the chart, since they are being used for the same thing, the heat treatment and tempering requirements may well be quite different. Sometimes new alloys are developed and used because they are better than the previous alternative but often it is because they are cheaper, in material or production costs. :oo:

Another reason is because it is stuff that is commonly found in the junk. I think you would find that not a high percentage of tools found in the junkyard are made from the good stuff. If you found a set of spanners in a dumpster, for example, there is a much higher probability that they are K-mart specials than Sidchromes. :rolleyes:

[Bushmiller]

Just out of interest I went looking for the difference between O1 and O2 steel. As Sheets alluded to, they are very similar with the primary difference being that O1 has a small amount of tungsten in it which aids wear résistance. See this blade forum thread (post #6) for more detail:

Need help! Difference in o1 and o2??? | BladeForums.com (https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/need-help-difference-in-o1-and-o2.1337291/)

Regards
Paul

[banjopicks]

That link doesn't work, at least not through my company network.

[Sheets]

That link doesn't work, at least not through my company network.
The link works ok for me - must be a firewall thing where you hang your hat during the day.

[banjopicks]

Thanks, it works fine at home.