Wood screw recommendations

[Bernmc]

It's time to refresh my screw stocks. Wondered if anyone has any recommendations?

I usually use whatever's on the shelf at the big green shed. Convenient and cheap. Not the best quality, but most of the stuff I do is low screw stress stuff, so it usually doesn't seem to matter.

I have a lot of MDF carcasses to build soon, so thought I'd try some of the self-countersinking type. Spax seem to be the go-to (Spax-M 4x40mm Zinc MDF Screw. Qty. 200 (https://screwsandfasteners.com.au/mdf-screws/4x40)). Anyone used them?

Wurth do a line of self-countersinkers too - like these (https://eshop.wurth.com.au/ASSY-4-CSMP-ZiNi-timber-screw-Steel-zinc-nickel-partial-thread-countersunk-milling-pocket-head-SCR-CSMP-WO-RW20-P3E-45X40-26/019094540.sku/en/GB/AUD/). Similar price to spax. I have a few Würth tools (mini and t-ratchet drivers, knife), and they've quickly become my go-to tools as they're so good. Do I presume their screws are just as good...?

Mostly MDF and ply work, but I'm moving towards solid wood more (sick of shape-shifting cheap ply!)

What do you use?

[Also, are the spax screws a standard T20 bit, or is it a proprietary bit like the Würth?]

[Chris Parks]

I used Spax for a while many years ago and they work well, I used Roberston screws as well and they work well also. Pragmatism made me go back to Phillips because I had a project that used over 3000 stainless screws and the price was right. I buy bulk from a supplier in Adelaide whose name I can't remember right now and they supply boxes of 1000 for the same price as a hundred from Bunnings. If good quality sharp drivers are used then Phillips are bang for the buck the obvious answer. Yes they cam out but they are designed to do that so it is not a shortcoming and these days good quality drivers just about eliminate that anyway.

Another option is Pozidrive which appears to be the standard drive or near enough in Europe and nothing wrong with them either apart from telling the difference between the Phillips and Pozidrive driver at a glance. I fixed that by using shrink wrap on each type so I can see the colour difference at a glance.

They all work but if price is the driver Phillips works better. The only thing I am not sure of is do Spax use Torx or Torx Plus as a driver.
What is the Difference Between Torx and Torx Plus (insight-security.com) (https://www.insight-security.com/what-is-the-difference-between-torx-and-torx-plus)

If your question is a about quality of the fastener Torx or Robertson are most probably the better choices but I can't say I suffer many problems with the made in China Phillips.

[havabeer69]

scrooz seem ok to me so far.

[Chris Parks]

Scrooz weren't around when I first started to buy fasteners on line but these days the number of online suppliers is far greater. Elraco the supplier I used is really a hardware supplier and I have bought a lot of other stuff from them such as drawer slides.

[Woodified]

It's time to refresh my screw stocks. Wondered if anyone has any recommendations?

I usually use whatever's on the shelf at the big green shed. Convenient and cheap. Not the best quality, but most of the stuff I do is low screw stress stuff, so it usually doesn't seem to matter.

I have a lot of MDF carcasses to build soon, so thought I'd try some of the self-countersinking type. Spax seem to be the go-to (Spax-M 4x40mm Zinc MDF Screw. Qty. 200 (https://screwsandfasteners.com.au/mdf-screws/4x40)). Anyone used them?

Wurth do a line of self-countersinkers too - like these (https://eshop.wurth.com.au/ASSY-4-CSMP-ZiNi-timber-screw-Steel-zinc-nickel-partial-thread-countersunk-milling-pocket-head-SCR-CSMP-WO-RW20-P3E-45X40-26/019094540.sku/en/GB/AUD/). Similar price to spax. I have a few Würth tools (mini and t-ratchet drivers, knife), and they've quickly become my go-to tools as they're so good. Do I presume their screws are just as good...?

Mostly MDF and ply work, but I'm moving towards solid wood more (sick of shape-shifting cheap ply!)

What do you use?

[Also, are the spax screws a standard T20 bit, or is it a proprietary bit like the Würth?]


My general purpose counter sink screws are Robertson screws. However any screws in MDF I pre-drill with a counter sink bit. My second most used screws are kreg screws or the knock offs that my local hardware store sells in bulk.

[GraemeCook]

It's time to refresh my screw stocks. Wondered if anyone has any recommendations?

I usually use whatever's on the shelf at the big green shed. Convenient and cheap. Not the best quality, ...


I totally disagree that they are cheap, and they force you to buy a packet even if you only need one fastenner.

As Chris essentially says, I much prefer centre drive screws - and my view is that Phillips, pozidrive, torx, etc are all equally reliable. All are better than slots; simply because of the risk of damage from slippage of the driver.

As to supplier, I just go to a specialist supplier of nuts and bolts - in Hobart it's called Nuts & Bolts - most original name - and he simply does not stock the crap brands, so I do not have to worry. My decisions are limited to steel, galvanised, 304 or 316 stainless, or brass.

They do not stock screws with detachable heads!

[riverbuilder]

Nover, 93 munibung rd. Cardiff.
box of 5000 60 mm x 8 gauge chipboard screws is about $12.
Its a no brainer.

[rustynail]

+1 for Nover.

[Bernmc]

Nover, 93 munibung rd. Cardiff.
box of 5000 60 mm x 8 gauge chipboard screws is about $12.
Its a no brainer.


Nover were on my list for MR MDF and composite panels, so I will go and have a look at them :2tsup:

[ian]

Nover were on my list for MR MDF and composite panels, so I will go and have a look at them :2tsup:
Just be aware that there is a difference between a chipboard screws and screws intended for holding MDF panels together

[Bernmc]

Just be aware that there is a difference between a chipboard screws and screws intended for holding MDF panels together

I assumed this might be the case with MDF's unique construction, but both spax and würth seem to lump it all together -

"Spax-M MDF screws are made for joining chipboard, MDF boards, plywood, fibreboard, melamine, and other engineered wood products." Würth says theirs are "well suited for MDF, particle board and solid wood".

I guess they'll all be fine for mdf carcasses - but it would be a potential time saver to have a screw that self-countersinks and goes into the MDF reliably without pre-drilling - which both spax and wurth claim they can do.

I think Peter Millard (youtuber who does a lot of custom MDF cabinetry and installs) uses spax

[GraemeCook]

... I guess they'll all be fine for mdf carcasses - but it would be a potential time saver to have a screw that self-countersinks and goes into the MDF reliably without pre-drilling - which both spax and wurth claim they can do. ...

I'd be very wary of this.

I am not sure what you call the sides of MDF and chipboard that isn't the face or back - the grain side, the wheatbix side or just the side - but screwing into this side grain, especially near corners, it is very easy to delaminate the stuff. I always pre-drill and lubricate the screws.

[rrich]

What can I say?

To say "This Brand" or that "Style" seems to be counter productive to me. You know what you need, buy a box. Yes you will pay about 3 x cost of the actual need. However when the neighbor comes over and says "Can you help?" while you say "Here is the screw. . . . " and gives you that kiss on the cheek, you have made all the 'Box of Screws' purchases worthwhile.

[Alkahestic]

"Can you help?" while you say "Here is the screw. . . . " and gives you that kiss on the cheek

My neighbour is a lovely guy but I'm going to have to start throwing my screws away now, on the off chance he gives me a kiss on the cheek.

Also, Robertson, Spax, and Wurth are all great. Bunnings Zenith screws are ok if you only need to drive them in once and never see them again. And even then you may have stripped or broken heads if you're a bit overzealous with ye olde powered driver.

[ian]

I assumed this might be the case with MDF's unique construction, but both spax and würth seem to lump it all together -

"Spax-M MDF screws are made for joining chipboard, MDF boards, plywood, fibreboard, melamine, and other engineered wood products." Würth says theirs are "well suited for MDF, particle board and solid wood".

I guess they'll all be fine for mdf carcasses - but it would be a potential time saver to have a screw that self-countersinks and goes into the MDF reliably without pre-drilling - which both spax and wurth claim they can do.

I think Peter Millard (youtuber who does a lot of custom MDF cabinetry and installs) uses spaxmy point was that an MDF screw is not the same as a particle board screw.

I don't doubt that MDF screws can be used with particle board. It's the other way round -- particle board screws being used with MDF -- where I have doubts. MDF is denser than particle board with little to no difference in density between the surface and interior of the board -- unlike particle board where the interior is notable less dense than the top and bottom faces

[ian]

You know what you need, buy a box. Yes you will pay about 3 x cost of the actual need. However when the neighbor comes over and says "Can you help?" while you say "Here is the screw. . . . " and gives you that kiss on the cheek, you have made all the 'Box of Screws' purchases worthwhile.
it all depends on how cute your neighbour is -- and at your age "cute" might be all females under 75 :wink:

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But I'm not sure how I would respond to a "peck on the cheek" from a neighbour missing their teeth. :D

[Robson Valley]

I try to do everything indoors and some outdoors with #8 Robertson in various lengths.
#8 x 1.5" come in 1 kg cans, I don't know the count but it's lots until I started working on a long fence.
The bigger #12 and #14 are good fence screws. Philips are too easily damaged to be useful.
I used #6 Robertson a lot but decided that the slightly larger shank diameter for strength would do me no harm, plus the bulk supply.

[jpdv]

Here's one for the team: does anyone know of anyone selling 316 stainless wood screws at 6 and 8 gauge, in shorter sizes (eg 1inch plus or minus)? I can find 8G longer 316 out there easily, mostly variants of decking screws, but have a specific (marine) task that needs shorter smaller, 316 csk screws. My internet/google skills are failing me...

[Bernmc]

Here's one for the team: does anyone know of anyone selling 316 stainless wood screws at 6 and 8 gauge, in shorter sizes (eg 1inch plus or minus)? I can find 8G longer 316 out there easily, mostly variants of decking screws, but have a specific (marine) task that needs shorter smaller, 316 csk screws. My internet/google skills are failing me...

Buy ASSY 4 A2 CS st. steel A2 FT countersunk head RW online (https://eshop.wurth.com.au/Product-categories/ASSY-4-A2-CS-st.-steel-A2-FT-countersunk-head-RW/310235080709114.cyid/3102.cgid/en/GB/AUD/?CampaignName=SR001&CatalogCategoryRef=310235080709114%40WuerthGroup-Wuerth-3102&SelectedFilterAttribut=%255B%255D)

or more variations on the A4/316 theme - Search (https://eshop.wurth.com.au/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/3102-B1-Site/en_GB/-/AUD/ViewAfterSearch-ExecuteAfterSearch?SearchResultType=&EffectiveSearchTerm=&CampaignName=SR001&VisibleSearchTerm=A4%20stainless%20steel%20screw&CampaignName=SR001)

I can get you prices if you need them/put you in touch with the rep.

[jpdv]

Yup - that's the A2 (=304) grade - no use in chlorine/ full on salt water environments... And checking the site, the only A4/316 options are weird decking screws or heavy duty capping screws - not plain vanilla small wood screws - but thanks for the link. :)

(I may have to go full old school - silicon bronze boatbuilding screws, but damn they cost....)

[riverbuilder]

Here's one for the team: does anyone know of anyone selling 316 stainless wood screws at 6 and 8 gauge, in shorter sizes (eg 1inch plus or minus)? I can find 8G longer 316 out there easily, mostly variants of decking screws, but have a specific (marine) task that needs shorter smaller, 316 csk screws. My internet/google skills are failing me...

Stainless Steel Supplier in Northern Beaches | 316 Fastening Shop (https://www.316shop.com.au/)

[Chris Parks]

Sometimes it is simpler to walk into a fastener store and see what they can supply.

[GraemeCook]

Here's one for the team: does anyone know of anyone selling 316 stainless wood screws at 6 and 8 gauge, in shorter sizes (eg 1inch plus or minus)? ...

Our local chndlery has them, but you are in Brisbane.

Suggest that you try any yacht chandlery:

Ross Muir in Manly,
Nearest branch of Whitworth Marine,
Other chandleries.

If they do not have what you want, always ask "where else should I try?" Almost all chandlery staff are active sailors.

Other best source is specialist fastenings shop - Nuts & Bolts in Hobart - should be several similar in Brisbane.

[jpdv]

Yacht chandleries tried, all good for 304, not for 316 (and also you pay an instant 25% mark-up for the privilege of walking into/clicking on anywhere with 'yacht' in the title...).

Have also scoured Australia (and indeed, online USA suppliers) for specialist fastener suppliers... No luck. I begin to suspect that 316 may be too soft/brittle/some other issue for small diameter woodscrews, or the market is so rarefied that no one makes them at an economic price.

It's not a showstopper, and I can get the Si Bronze variants, but was just curious if I was missing a cheap source of 316 screws - I now reckon the answer is that I could source them, but probably at the cost of the (much better for my purposes) bronze screws, so its a no brainer - thanks for all the replies!

[jpdv]

Just in case anyone else is hunting, finally got closest with 'Scrooz' online:

8g x 25mm RazrTrim Stainless Screws pack 100 (https://www.scrooz.com.au/8g-x-25mm-razrtrim-stainless-screws-pack-100)

Dunno how I missed them initially, but that'll do... Running at about 50% of Si Bronze cost, like for like.