First lathe

[Hangfire]

Hi all, I am thinking about trying out wood turning, hobbyist level. I have been looking at buying new/2nd hand and trying to assess what a minimum spec is to achieve something worthwhile.
I have found 2 carbatec units, both with a set of chisels.
1 midi 400 bucks
1 900 mm 525 bucks.

The 900 is an old model, but is marginally more powerful and has the variable speed motor, the midi uses belts.

Can anyone make recommendations as to if either is good deal? Or if I should really be looking elsewhere/buying new....

Don't really want to spend a fortune, nor join a shed at this point.

[NeilS]

Can't comment on quality of build between the two, but variable speed is a definite advantage.

[doragus]

Buy new and you can concentrate on turning and not the equipment. You can get a reasonable capacity mini with electronic variable speed and a scroll chuck (deffinitely needed to give you versatility in work holding) delivered for around a grand.

[bruceward51]

A lot of turners started with a lathe similar to the 900 which gives you a good initial range of options. The variable speed is a 'reeve' drive, which works on a paired set of spring-loaded cone pulleys to achieve the speed change. It is quite good once you get the basic principles sorted out. In the long term they often have maintenance issues, but this is more an issue for second-hand buyers I think. By the time these issues emerge with a new machine you will have likely upgraded to a better machine or lost interest in turning.

The things to look at with lathes include:

* the motor - 3/4 hp is probably a minimum for general turning and the 1/2 could be limiting for some projects.
* the spindle thread - both have 30mm thread which is becoming standard on larger lathes.
* the distance between centres limits the size of the projects you can do. You rarely need to go over the capacity of the 900 (840mm ), but the 440 on the midi is getting to the small side (which is why it is called a midi).
* the swing (swing over bed) limits the diameter of projects. The 900 has a swivel head that is an option for larger projects - rarely used though I suspect. There is not a lot of difference in swing between the two. The midi could technically handle a 520mm bowl blank (with no clearance) and the 900 a 600 mm blank, but both would struggle with power for a bowl of that size.
* Both lathes have an m2 taper which is the common standard.

Make sure that any supplied tools are not the old-style carbon steel. You want HSS (high speed steel) - or they may offer a carbide tool package (unlikely I think) which would be OK too.

Bruce

[Hangfire]

what was attractive about these 2 was that being second hand, i could dip my feet in the water of turning and see if i got hooked.... the chisels with the midi look better (the set for 189 from carby) - whereas the 900 model just says HSS chisels. both look like they have the 5 main shapes (like i even know what those are)..
what would be a fair 2nd hand price for an old model 900? assuming no flaws (and what would you look for in case of them?)

i could push to a grand and buy new, but it would limit other projects that i have on the go

[Optimark]

I would suggest you have a look at Hare and Forbes (Hafco) for another variant on machinery available. They are in Melbourne (Dandenong) and their products are reasonable.

Their midi is an electronic variable speed, which if you decide you don't like turning will certainly help move a sale greatly. It has greater capacity, slightly lower minimum speed, which helps with heavier or out of balance timber. There is an extension bed for a modest sum which gives you great length for spindle work, think table legs.

It has two tool rests, 150mm and 300mm which will be handy for different sized work, not a requirement, but certainly handy.

Hafco also have a variation on the starter kit, which is cheaper than the Carbatec version. It is HSS material and I know it is of reasonable quality as I picked up a set around 12 years or more ago and still use four of the chisels regularly.

You don't need a chuck, but trust me it certainly makes life easier for some things. the cheaper chucks may have a limited range of jaw sets available. Standard will be 50mm jaw set of close to that. The cheaper chucks are alright, the more expensive brands have a dizzying array of jaw sets for specialised gripping and different sizes. But that is down the track.

You will need to be able to sharpen your chisels, if you have a 200mm bench grinder, you are halfway there. There are squillions of ways to sharpen turning chisels, you just need to get one way to keep your chisels sharp. If you take shavings from your timber, you are using sharp chisels, if you take sawdust from your timber, your chisels are blunt.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Print?Code=W385

W302 - WT-6 HSS Wood Turning Tools - 6 Piece Set | Hare & Forbes Machineryhouse (https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W302)

Mick.

[NeilS]

...if you have a 200mm bench grinder, you are halfway there.

But if you only have a 150mm bench grinder, that will do for now.

[Hangfire]

i actually do not own a bench grinder at all.... my minimal sharpening to this point has consisted of work on diamond stones.... i have been ok, but not 'sharp'

[Optimark]

It is definitely possible to sharpen turning gouges by hand; I observed a member of my turning club do just that over a period of about three years. Essentially he had the shape he desired, then at suitable intervals he would run either a small stone or a credit card sized plastic thing with fine diamonds on one side. Basically he re-sharpened by swiping the stone/card over the desired area much like a snooker player chalks their cue tip.

Mick.

[Hangfire]

hmmm - looking at the hare and forbes website - they have the 900mm version of the midi on sale at 649 at the mo... W382 - WL-18 Swivel Head Wood Lathe | Hare & Forbes Machineryhouse (https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W382) - for 50 bucks i assume its worth getting the longer bed than the midi

how long is the likely lifespan of one of these units (piece of string?) 3yrs? 10? 650 plus 110 for chisels is still coming up at 760 all in... more than i prefer to spend, but if its something that is measurably better than what i listed earlier, i would probably go for it (christmas present to myself) but if not then would save the cash to buy timber and continue building stuff

[NeilS]

...would save the cash to buy timber



Few of us buy wood for turning...

Have lathe, wood will come!

[Hangfire]

you guys got me looking at hare and forbes....

now i am giving serious thought to this - K021 - WL-20 Swivel Head Wood Lathe & Tooling Package Deal | Hare & Forbes Machineryhouse (https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/K021)

1100mm
variable speed
and it comes with accessories

my question there is are they the ones that people usually need?

i am hoping to get into this and some chopping boards etc over the christmas break....

[chambezio]

To put your toe in the water.....have you thought of asking a wood turner from this Forum and is handy to your address, to give you a "play" with his set up and take you through what can be done with a wood lathe. By doing a hands on appraisal you will find quickly if the activity for you.
Its just a thought.

[Hangfire]

i contacted the local mens sheds a while back and didnt get much of a positive vibe... and i tend to get time poor - snatching an hour here and there in between the family time to get some r+r in the garage making something....
i live out in the eastern suburbs of melbourne

[Optimark]

That complete starter kit you referred to, would be a suitable complete starting kit if you have nothing. Keeping the gouges sharp is the only thing missing, but we've discussed that already....

You will also require some face protection and you will really need to figure out how to keep damaging dust away from your lungs.

The chisels in the kit look to be a better balanced kit than the smaller one you were originally looking at. The handles are a bit on the short side at 230mm, but with minimal experience you could re-handle them with longer handles you turn up yourself.

Mick.

[Hangfire]

As for dust collection, I have a 2hp dusty with a 100mm port... was hoping to rig something up from that

[The Spin Doctor]

Hi all, I am thinking about trying out wood turning, hobbyist level. I have been looking at buying new/2nd hand and trying to assess what a minimum spec is to achieve something worthwhile.
I have found 2 carbatec units, both with a set of chisels.
1 midi 400 bucks
1 900 mm 525 bucks.

The 900 is an old model, but is marginally more powerful and has the variable speed motor, the midi uses belts.

Can anyone make recommendations as to if either is good deal? Or if I should really be looking elsewhere/buying new....

Don't really want to spend a fortune, nor join a shed at this point.

I'd say start with a men shed, or other club in your area.

[Fallen Woodwork]

The OP didnt get a good response from the local MS. Some of us may have a better experience in our own space and time

Having no access to a mens shed (nearest is over 500km away) and wanting to try turning I purchased a WL18 combo kit about 9 months ago
Its seen a lot of hours so far and worked well. Be sure to lube it correctly as described The manual variable speed continuous velocity clutch system in the WL18 works well. The chuck is fine but one thing I would say is that I only used about half of that chisel set. I turn local hard and reclaimed unwanted woods however so you may have a different experience with this chisel set.

I use one of the small spindle gouges often however I would put some money aside for a quality bowl or spindle gouge for later down the track if you want to turn further plus a good sharpening jig so as not to waste good steel in the beginning

[Hangfire]

What would a good sharpening system look like? On a realistic budget....

[Mountain Ash]

Hi HF. I was in a similar position to you a couple of years ago. Wanting to have a go at turning I too had to think about what was the right way to go. Buy cheap new, love it and need to quickly upgrade or spend more, not enjoy it and lose on the resale (or at least have it haunt me from the corner of the workshop). I went 2nd hand and had to wait until a reasonable one came along. Paid $200 for an Aussie made lathe (Golding) that came with a few chisels (mostly home made from files). I love turning (more spindle work than bowls but getting better at them). Cheap entry let me get better tools and new chuck. Slowly added more chisels as I understood what I actually used. Not only will the wood come, you also get better at scrounging for it. Working in the round is so liberating for this middle aged carpenter.

[The Spin Doctor]

The OP didnt get a good response from the local MS. Some of us may have a better experience in our own space and time

Having no access to a mens shed (nearest is over 500km away) and wanting to try turning I purchased a WL18 combo kit about 9 months ago
Its seen a lot of hours so far and worked well. Be sure to lube it correctly as described The manual variable speed continuous velocity clutch system in the WL18 works well. The chuck is fine but one thing I would say is that I only used about half of that chisel set. I turn local hard and reclaimed unwanted woods however so you may have a different experience with this chisel set.

I use one of the small spindle gouges often however I would put some money aside for a quality bowl or spindle gouge for later down the track if you want to turn further plus a good sharpening jig so as not to waste good steel in the beginning

Don't disagree. I wasn't all the fussed with a couple that I visited. One was so popular you had to book time weeks in advance. The other was so stuffy and they spent all their time have "smoko" it was a waste of time, but I did find a private non mens shed that was really good.

However. What a men shed does is give one an opportunity to see what they actually like doing and what they will need to buy. You might find all you want to do is tiny stuff and then a midi lathe is all you need. Or you like doing sculpture type bowls and such, which will require a vicmarc 300 longbed... Try before you buy allows you to focus very limited resources, i.e. time and money... You might, as many have found, you actually don't like turning at all. I've seen a lot of dormant lathes over the years...

YMMV

[The Spin Doctor]

What would a good sharpening system look like? On a realistic budget....

Grinder is a must. The cheapest is a 6" grinder with a fine wheel and wheel dresser. That will get you functional. From there the skies the limit. Your sharpening will evolve more than your turning skill over the next few years. Probably the most important part of turning is learning how to grind the chisels and gouges. The beauty of modern chisels is you can blue the tip and not hurt the steel too much.

[Hangfire]

What do I look out for with a grinder? Would a hammer barn ryobi be up to it?

[Fallen Woodwork]

What do I look out for with a grinder? Would a hammer barn ryobi be up to it?

Okay - it all gets a bit much but here goes. Not saying this is the way to go but if you get one piece of good information as a fellow beginner thats good enough for me

You want a slow grinder - they say a slow grinder will only allow you to make mistakes slowly
I went for a wet stone from timbecon to start with as I could use it for other sharpening
I went for this when it was on special https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood-wet-stone-sharpening-system-200mm-160w-variable-speed

(https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood-wet-stone-sharpening-system-200mm-160w-variable-speed)I also got their generic grinding jigs for chisels and knives etc and a platform for sharpening gouges
Oh - I also purchsed a timbecon heligrind kit which I was not impressed with. It was very poorly made and looked like someone else had already received my one and sent it back only for timbecon to flog it off to me :o:no: Views expressed are my own opinions and do not reflect woodwork forums (They said they had a bad run that didnt meet their expectations and asked me if it looked like the box had already been opened - it did) Anyway, sent that back , got a refund and I'll leave it at that

I soon got tired of the water and the mess it made flicking off the wetstone wheel with regular sharpenng so got a slow grinder with CBN wheels
Heres the timbecon one with the newly designed heligrind
https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood-cbn-wheel-bench-grinder-with-heligrind-kit
Rikon do a good slow grinder. It will accept CBN wheels with a 5/8 arbor just dont ask the sales man if a 40mm wide CBN wheel will fit. they will say it doesnt... It will, you just have to take of the gaurds
200mm (8″) 1HP Slow Speed Bench Grinder 80-808 by Rikon – Beyond Tools (https://www.beyondtools.com/product/200mm-8-1hp-slow-speed-bench-grinder-80-808-by-rikon/)
Many distributors for rikon - you should find one close to you and could wait for the cyber sales if you decide to go straight for CBN
There are other brands of slow bench grinders that will be around around the 1800RPM mark

As for the sharpening jig - After messing things up with my cheap chisel set sharpening by hand I then purchased some crown gear. I went for the oneway sharpening system
Wolverine Grinding System with VARI-GRIND jig : Amazon.com.au: Home Improvement (https://www.amazon.com.au/Wolverine-Grinding-System-VARI-Grind-jig/dp/B01JAPC6D4)

The setup blocks that it comes with make it impossible to mess it up. You get a elsworth grind and a standard bowl gouge block if I remember correctly. Perfect grinds every time.
Now - you may come across those with much more experience who say you should learn to sharpen by hand. I would love to one day but while I have my learning wheels on this jig ensures I dont waste good steel

I found a 40/40 setup block too
Ron Brown does a lot of other setup blocks - he may possibly have been the first to design these
40-40 Grind Set Up Block : Amazon.com.au (https://www.amazon.com.au/40-40-Grind-Set-Up-Block/dp/B0867HXXF4/ref=sr_1_19?keywords=ron+brown+40+40&qid=1637487350&sr=8-19)

https://www.amazon.com.au/Ron-Browns-Best-Quick-Sharpening/dp/B07DR6KG8S/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=wolverine+jig&qid=1637487311&sr=8-5


(https://www.amazon.com.au/Ron-Browns-Best-Quick-Sharpening/dp/B07DR6KG8S/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=wolverine+jig&qid=1637487311&sr=8-5)

[NeilS]

Okay - it all gets a bit much but here goes. Not saying this is the way to go but if you get one piece of good information as a fellow beginner thats good enough for me


(https://www.amazon.com.au/Ron-Browns-Best-Quick-Sharpening/dp/B07DR6KG8S/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=wolverine+jig&qid=1637487311&sr=8-5)

All good stuff FW for Hangfire to consider along his woodturning journey, but he has to start within his budget.

A $50 150mm bench grinder with the addition of a $50 toolrest (https://www.timbecon.com.au/baladonia-bench-grinder-universal-toolrest-kit) will do the job to start with. The toolrest can be subsequently moved across to be used with bigger/slower/fancier/whatever grinders later on with much better grinding wheels and, unlike some pieces of equipment that become redundant, there are always other uses for a 150mm bench grinder in a workshop.

Without a local Shed or club to learn from, I highly recommend a jig for bowl gouge sharpening. But, there are plans out there for bowl gouge jigs that can be made by the DIYer at minimal cost. I started a thread on this... DIY gouge jigs (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/diy-gouge-jigs-243670)

Slow grinders may be more forgiving in that mistakes happen less quickly, but the cost of lost steel with a starter tool kit is not much compared to the additional cost of a slow grinder.

[Hangfire]

Could you recommend a basic grinder so I know what I am looking at?

[NeilS]

Could you recommend a basic grinder so I know what I am looking at?

Our local Men's Shed has one of these...

Ozito 150W 150mm Bench Grinder - Bunnings Australia (https://www.bunnings.com.au/ozito-150w-150mm-bench-grinder_p6290083)

It is not an all day every day grinder, but it's OK for the money. Just had to remove the inbuilt tool rest (as in hacksaw it off the wheel guard) to accommodate a better tool rest.

And, keep an eye out for 2nd hand ones like these, they don't have to look pretty to work...

Ryobi Bench Grinder | Power Tools | Gumtree Australia Monash Area - Glen Waverley | 1284462792 (https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/glen-waverley/power-tools/ryobi-bench-grinder/1284462792)

Heavy Duty Hamilco Bench Grinder | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/234289305760?hash=item368cbb18a0:g:lQ8AAOSwn3thSVjg)

[The Spin Doctor]

What do I look out for with a grinder? Would a hammer barn ryobi be up to it?


As you're starting out I think KISS is the way to go. Keep it simple son. Any grinder that satisfies your budget will work. In a few years you might still be using that one, or you might be onto some exotic contraption and process that costs the same as a nice down payment on a house... Don't put too much mental effort into it at this stage... YMMV