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NewLou
18th December 2005, 09:30 PM
Gidday:)

I plan on getting into vacuum pressing. A great Aussie supplier can be found here:

http://www.cloudmaker.net.au/

REgards Lou

martrix
10th May 2006, 07:43 PM
Anyone know if Cloudmaker is still in operation, website has been down for a few days?

Miltzy
10th May 2006, 11:11 PM
I spoke to Mr Cloudmaker last frid. He is no longer in buisness due to health reasons. But check out vacuumsolutions.com.au (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/vacuumsolutions.com.au) I have spoken to them and they have put me in contact with the agent over here in the west.

While on the topic I beleive off the shelf vaccu bags are way over priced. I had my bag made up at a canvas type place. Get them to make it out of that clear plastic awning stuuf they use outside cafes, resturants, pubs etc. I had mine made up 1250 x 2440 (so i can fill a full sheet in if i need to.) Cost round $70. that was around 3 years ago. The bag has got 1 or 2 holes in it but a bit of duct tape soon fixes that.

I have been using a venturi to remove the air but it doesnt cut the mustard any where neer as well as a pump.
:D :D :D

martrix
10th May 2006, 11:44 PM
bummer, anyone no where I can get the necessary parts for a venturi style set up?

Wild Dingo
12th May 2006, 03:11 AM
Hey Miltzy that site doesnt open up on my computer the dreaded 440 thing... Im considering getting or making one so any chance you can let me know who the agent over here is? any chance of a pic of your setup? ;)

Lignum
12th May 2006, 10:14 AM
You should be able to get the pumps as Tony only made up the bags and put the kits together as a part time business. West System avail through Marine outlets have veneering products as they are used in boat building. And their is still no distributor in Aus for Vacu Press http://www.vacupress.com/index.htm but are by far the best systems for woodworking. If you can afford the extra few bucks get one of these you wont be dissapointed:)





The bag has got 1 or 2 holes in it but a bit of duct tape soon fixes that.



And for the newbies to vacuuming, the best way to locate a leak is to roughly locate where you think it is and wipe on some colored food dye while the vacuume is opperating. When you wipe it off the food dye will be sucked through the hole and you can then see exactly where it it:)

Krunchy
12th May 2006, 02:40 PM
Hey Miltzy that site doesnt open up on my computer the dreaded 440 thing...

Hi Wild Dingo,

Try - http://www.vacuumsolutions.com.au/ - the site just came up fine for me now.

Cheers,
Krunchy

Fossil
12th May 2006, 04:25 PM
I do a bit of composite work on small boat hulls for a hobby.
I made a vaccuum unit based on this http://www.berkut13.com/sucker.htm
and it works really well.
As far as the polymer sheet goes...... I think the kits etc are way overpriced, but I can't help with a supplier. I get 400um clear plastic from my nephew who manages a large plastics pakaging plant.

I have a vacuum tabletop made out of high gloss laminate, which works really well too. Just use duct tape to seal the plastic down to the gloss lam, and your in business. I have not done any vac work with this setup, on timber work, where I would presume more load may be applied to the tape/plastic etc, so mabey someone else can chime in here and give some better advice.

Good luck. :)

martrix
12th May 2006, 04:40 PM
ok, so it looks like I am gonna have to make a table top vacuum press. Does any one know where I can get the part/s(venturi:confused: ) that you can connect to your compressor line to create the vacuum? cheers.

Miltzy
12th May 2006, 09:29 PM
Hey Miltzy that site doesnt open up on my computer the dreaded 440 thing... Im considering getting or making one so any chance you can let me know who the agent over here is? any chance of a pic of your setup? ;)

imm heading away for the weekend but next week i should be able to fire a few pics up on the post. Im gonna order the pump next week.

the agent over here in the wests details

doug baker [[email protected]]
phone nos is (08) 93411630

he sounds like a fairly geniune chap over the phone. even though it took a week to get me a quote. (maybee his job sux):D :D :D

Miltzy
12th May 2006, 09:36 PM
ok, so it looks like I am gonna have to make a table top vacuum press. Does any one know where I can get the part/s(venturi:confused: ) that you can connect to your compressor line to create the vacuum? cheers.

i dont confess to be any guru on vaccy veneering but from my experiece venturi just doesnt cut the mustard. it is too slow to use with pva and doesnt create enough vacuum, also ot makes your commpressor work really hard.

thats just my experience, maybee my bag is too big but ive had too many failed glue ups, to go with the venturi.

Ausworkshop
13th May 2006, 04:26 PM
Anyone know of the cheapest possible solution for getting vacuum in our workshops here in Australia. I've been reading about this for a while now and surely there must be a cheaper way to do it or a way that doesn't involve ripping apart an old fridge commpressor.

I have an air compressor and don't really wanna have to add yet another expensive machine (ie vacuum pump) if I don't have to.

I don't care if the thing runs for ages to reach the desired pressure as long as it works. The air compressor would only run until the venturi built up enough vacuum then using a switch you could have it cut off automatically.

I wanna start playing around with this and post the results for all on here to see but first we need to know.

The minimum amount of pressure required for light veneering use?
The minimum amount of pressure and air volume to run a small venturi.
What is the smallest available?
Pricing and its CFM requirements?
Why are they so expensive (isint it just some brass tubing)?
Can you make your own using an old spray gun etc??
Is there a local supplier of venturi tube parts/bits in Australia?I e-mailed a company here in Rowville Victoria but still waiting to hear back from them.

There must be a good cheap way to generate vacuum from compressed air and control it when it gets to required pressure even if it is a little slow compared to a vac pump - once the pressure is reached the air compressor won't have to work anymore (unless your bag leaks then it will simply turn on and off as needed)

martrix
13th May 2006, 04:43 PM
I'm thinking of building a good quality press using this (http://www.joewoodworker.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=60_64&products_id=1683&osCsid=60a91f4ecc493058b3796defb458b24a) and this (http://www.joewoodworker.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=44_66&products_id=2322)

Does anyone have any experience with this company and or their products?

Ausworkshop
15th May 2006, 02:49 PM
Yes Ive spoken to Joe, he seems to think my compressor isnt big enough.
its 198Lpermin.
Thats why I was asking on hear if anyone knows the minimum requirements for the venturi.

I want to try one but dont really feel like forking out all that cash incase it doesnt work.:confused:

martrix
15th May 2006, 10:07 PM
Yes Ive spoken to Joe, he seems to think my compressor isnt big enough.
its 198Lpermin.
Thats why I was asking on hear if anyone knows the minimum requirements for the venturi.

I want to try one but dont really feel like forking out all that cash incase it doesnt work.:confused:

My compressor is a 3hp 17cfm unit. Anyone know how to convert this to Litres per min?
Would it be sufficent for what you inquired about?

Al B
15th May 2006, 10:35 PM
martrix 3HP 17cfm should deliver approx 285 lpm of free air at 10 Bar.

martrix
15th May 2006, 11:09 PM
martrix 3HP 17cfm should deliver approx 285 lpm of free air at 10 Bar.

Thanks for that Al..I'm not too flash with numbers, but I just used this volume flow calculator (http://www.lenntech.com/unit-conversion-calculator/volume-flow.htm) and got 481 litres p/min for 17 cfm compressor....help :(

Ausworkshop
16th May 2006, 02:37 PM
I thought mine was 12cfm so I dunno now.
who knows?
So confusing.:confused:

I just wanna know if my compressor is good enough for a venturi, that was my reason for the post.

Ive brought a compressor and hoped to get a vacuum from it but too many unanswerable questions so far and will be an expensive exercise if I continue buying more parts without enough knowledge on this.

Any thoughts/comments on my original questions would be apprecieated..

Thanks all

MurrayD99
17th May 2006, 09:24 AM
This is rough.... 1 cubic foot is more or less 300 x 300 x 300 = 270 litres.... (I think the correct answer is 275).

If it says 12 cfm on the label it is probably 8 - 9 cfm free air delivery. I think to get 12 cfm free air you would need a belt drive compressor with a 3 phase motor.

I have seen an article in FWW - maybe 10 years ago on venturi pumps. My recall is that they take next-to-no air to drive. I'm interested too - I'll look out the article and put some details on this thread. Regards

MurrayD99
18th May 2006, 08:17 AM
FWW #82 June 1990 and #99 April 1993 have some good stuff on air tools and venturi vacuum pumps. Of those suppliers listed, this one is still listing product:-

Vaccon Company Inc.
32 R Spring Street
P.O. Box 324
Medfield, Massachusetts 02052
Hours of operation | M - F 8AM - 5PM E.T.
Voicemail: 1.508.359.7200
INT'L: 1.508.359.7200
USA: 1.800.848.8788
FAX: 1.508. 359.0177 Email: [email protected] ([email protected]?subject=Requesting Info)

Their JS-90 is specifically mentioned in one FWW article. It uses 1.8cfm at 80psi and costs $US60.

Details follow:-

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD noWrap align=right>Product #:</TD><TD> </TD><TD>JS-90M-AA4</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD align=right>Product Name:</TD><TD> </TD><TD>J-Series Vacuum Pump - Mini 28"Hg W/AA4 Silencer</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD align=right>Description: </TD><TD> </TD><TD>A small, cylindrical, lightweight, and virtually indestructible pump powered
by compressed air or other gases.
This pump produces a vacuum by forcing compressed air through a limiting
orifice into a venturi section.

As the air exits the orifice, it expands, increasing in velocity to
supersonic speeds before entering the venturi section.
This creates a vacuum or negative pressure at the vacuum inlet port located
between the orifice and the venturi section. This high velocity insures
efficient and effective operation.

16 models to choose from - JF series produces
up to 10"Hg, JD series produces up to 20"Hg,
JS series produces up to 28"Hg.

Can be specified to operate at 80PSI or 60PSI.

Available in a wide variety of materials including aluminum, stainless
steel, PVC and teflon.

For more information on this product, please visit www.vaccon.com/PDFs/pg12.pdf (http://www.vaccon.com/PDFs/pg12.pdf)
</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD bgColor=#ffffee colSpan=3>Pricing Information:</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD align=right>Unit Price:</TD><TD> </TD><TD>$61.75 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I am going to get into this one day - I have the air and I can figure out how to make a bag... If anyone follows up on this please let me know. Regards

Ausworkshop
21st May 2006, 02:06 PM
Thats exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the information Murray:)
Still trying to work out which one I need then i will probably order through this mob. Heres what they told me in reply to my e-mail (they replied within 24hrs!).

You do have a couple choices that meet your SCFM requirement.

HVP-100-60 ($105.00 each List Price) HighVac Series vacuum pump (4.90 SCFM, 29.5"Hg).

VP20-150H-60 ($83.00 each List Price) FastVac Series vacuum pump (4.80 SCFM, 28"Hg).

So I suppose I will have to make a choice then place an order.
I guess I'll just get the cheaper one being as though the vacuum seems to be almost the same for the two.

Does anyone know what the 'S' in SCFM means?
I know the C = cubic F = foot M = perminute
But whats the S mean?

martrix
21st May 2006, 03:13 PM
Thats exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the information Murray:)
Still trying to work out which one I need then i will probably order through this mob. Heres what they told me in reply to my e-mail (they replied within 24hrs!).

You do have a couple choices that meet your SCFM requirement.

HVP-100-60 ($105.00 each List Price) HighVac Series vacuum pump (4.90 SCFM, 29.5"Hg).

VP20-150H-60 ($83.00 each List Price) FastVac Series vacuum pump (4.80 SCFM, 28"Hg).

So I suppose I will have to make a choice then place an order.
I guess I'll just get the cheaper one being as though the vacuum seems to be almost the same for the two.

Does anyone know what the 'S' in SCFM means?
I know the C = cubic F = foot M = perminute
But whats the S mean?


............SCFM (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/Cubic+Feet+per+Minute+at+standard+conditions)...........

Hi Andrew, are those prices you got in US$ and do you know how much to ship to Aus?

It looks very similar to the one on joewoodworker.com (http://www.joewoodworker.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=60_36&products_id=207) which is US$76.50 and can pull 28"HG at 4.8CFM @ 80psi......
also there is this statement from Joe:
* Maximum of two pieces per customer. No dealers/resellers. I've agreed to change the name of these units for the manufacturer because my pricing on them is below what their retail distributors pay. The retail price is nearly $100 and most distributors are getting them for about half of this. Luckily, the manufacturer was kind enough to cut me a break on these units. Get one while they're cheap!

http://www.joewoodworker.com/catalog/images/venturi-assembled-fastvac.jpg

Lignum
26th May 2006, 03:31 PM
Being the bearer of sad news, i recently heard Tony from cloudmaker passed away:( All that have had dealings with him found him a very nice bloke and he will be missed. Condolences to his family.

martrix
26th May 2006, 04:04 PM
wow, that is sad.....a pity I never had the fortune to meet him....I will make a vacuum press that he would be proud of..............

mickbates
1st July 2006, 11:24 PM
Hi Guys
My name is Mick Bates, a long time friend of Tony Yarham of Cloudmaker Fame. He of course apssed away on the 19 June, peacfully. Spent today with friends picking up some of the heaps of equipment and machinery he had. We are organising what to do with it all.
Tony was quite a character, fanatical about his areas of vac forming, vac pressing, blacksmithing woodwork. Great guy.

There is heaps of vacuum press stock, only a few complete kits. I am a business owner, and am consideringh taking up the ongoing supply of the press, what do you reckon, is it a good product, would you buy one?

Mick

joez
3rd July 2006, 10:54 AM
Mick,

Sad news about Tony, I have a cloudmaker vacuum press kit which I bought about 1.5 years ago from Tony. He was great to deal with and I love the kit.

The Kits work a treat, no hassles no fuss it does exactly what its supposed to do.

I say go for it, there arent any/many vacuum press suppliers in Australia. I reckon you take off from where Tony left the business.

ps if you need any further help dont hesitate PM me or to post your questions etc.. on this forum there a lot of skilled and knowledgable people on this website who will be able to help you with anything, iIT/woodworking/veneering etc...


goodluck

joez

Lignum
3rd July 2006, 09:13 PM
Hi Guys

There is heaps of vacuum press stock, only a few complete kits. I am a business owner, and am consideringh taking up the ongoing supply of the press, what do you reckon, is it a good product, would you buy one?

Mick


Mick, check your in-box for my PM

Miltzy
5th July 2006, 11:58 PM
mick so sorry to hear of your loss, I also have delt with tony on several occasions, on one occasion he gave me advice whilst on holidays in tassy. Then sent the part i was after the day he returned.

sincerly, Miltzy

Mike Chaney
27th July 2006, 01:44 PM
Hi Guys
My name is Mick Bates, a long time friend of Tony Yarham of Cloudmaker Fame. He of course apssed away on the 19 June, peacfully. Spent today with friends picking up some of the heaps of equipment and machinery he had. We are organising what to do with it all.
Tony was quite a character, fanatical about his areas of vac forming, vac pressing, blacksmithing woodwork. Great guy.

There is heaps of vacuum press stock, only a few complete kits. I am a business owner, and am consideringh taking up the ongoing supply of the press, what do you reckon, is it a good product, would you buy one?

Mick
Mick,
Sorry to hear that sad news. I'm interested in buying one of Tony's complete kits plus a second polyurethane bag. Are there any available?

peter mikk
27th July 2006, 08:38 PM
cheapest vacuum setup is to use an AC compressor off a car lock up the clutch and add eletric motor, done!!!!

mickbates
18th August 2006, 12:21 AM
Hi All,
I have re-started cloudmaker, at least for the vacuum presses. I stuffed up the Website changing contact info, but you can email me on [email protected] to get info etc

Stuart
18th August 2006, 01:13 AM
Good one Mick. Good luck.

Off to check out the site, and pricings :)

Stuart
18th August 2006, 01:15 AM
Ah. See what you mean. Site need a bit of help - it's referring to files on the local drive, rather than on the web.

For those interested, here's some of the links

http://www.cloudmaker.net.au/pricelist
http://www.cloudmaker.net.au/kits
http://www.cloudmaker.net.au/vacuumeclamps.html



Mick - if you want a hand sorting out the website, I can do it...for one of those vacuum kits ;) :D
(http://www.cloudmaker.net.au/vacuumeclamps.html)

HiString
18th August 2006, 03:05 AM
I only just found this thread and am shocked to hear of Tony's passing.

I had a few conversations with him about 18 months to 2 years ago when he supplied me with some vac fittings. About 6 months later he called me to say G'day and see how things were going. A bloody nice guy..so sad.


In reference to Martrix's post #22.........the Joewoodworker photo shows a venturi assy attached to a Mac valve (the blue unit with the lead). Mac valves are readily available from places like Pneumatic Products in Sydney and cost (in Oct. '04) $103.00. A quick look back over my records reminds me that I spent well in excess of $3000 setting up my vacuum system, admittedly, the US made Reischle-Thomas pump was 2/3rds of that.

Virtually any vac bag set-up will gradually leak so it's necessary to have a system that will cycle on and off as required. Can you do this with a compressor/venturi system? I know for my use, I need to keep veneers under vacuum for 16 - 24 hours, my system switches in and out and is that quite we don't even notice it (keeps the neighbours blissfully ignorant), something I couldn't do with a venturi requiring a compressor to be running on and off during the night.

:cool:

MurrayD99
22nd August 2006, 08:44 AM
Good luck with the business.

hoopy
24th August 2006, 05:23 PM
<HR style="COLOR: #c0aa94" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Excuse me for being lazy and copying and pasting but...The pump is a rotary vane german made Rietschle vcb 20, it cost about $1700.00, I don't have the specs on me but it pulls far more than enough air, with the reserve tank and a manifold I could run 4 bags from it. I keep a vacuum gauge on the reserve tank and it gets up to 29.5 hg no problem. Once vacuum is up I only switch it on 3 times for about a minute or two over the six hours the glue takes to set, I speed that up with an electric blanket chucked over the top. I looked at the cloud maker system and the Vacupress US system and all youré really paying for is the pump and a video, so I thought I'd just set my own up.

I used an old gas cylinder for the reserve tank and a water bed bag...though the clear vinyl ones work well I've found they don't strecth into the tight spots too well.

Mike Jefferys
17th April 2008, 10:49 AM
Mick,
I keep getting enquiries about Tony's Cloudmaker Vac Sacks. Do you know if anyone picked up the concept and is producing product for sale?
Thanks
Mike Jefferys
The Wood Works Book & Tool Co
(02) 9979 7797

meuls69
17th January 2009, 02:26 PM
hey guys

Just thought i would start this one again as i am trying to find somewhere in aus to get the parts i need to make a vacuume system like this http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/EVS/concept.htm without the shipping prices:) can anyone help?