Need to make a Workbench - Advice Needed

[EagerBeaver71]

My Ikea gate leg table just isn't cutting it any longer and I'm not too happy about having to use the cabinet top as a perfectly flat surface for reference/glue ups. So I need to make a cheap but half decent workbench out of some pine 2x4's and a 30mm 2700x600 plywood sheet. I don't need bench dogs or all that jazz yet, I just need to be able to clamp stuff to the edge and assemble projects, so the surface has to be flat and maybe have a shelf underneath, maybe a bit of storage space. And the most important thing is that its mobile, so everything on casters.

Any suggestions most appreciated!.

Merry Xmas

[auscab]

My thoughts
I'd call what you want more a work table more than a bench . Maybe look at it like one day it will be the table that sits in front of your work bench when you get around to doing one and make it so it can evolve with later time spent on it to add some of the handy details a good work table has . What I did for a work table was to start with legs and rails that held a top and the top was added by fixing it to spacers that created a gap beneath the top and base . My top is around 50 mm thick . 25mm would be a minimum . Or two layers of ply glued together , 38mm ?. The gap is so you can clamp anything down to your top using the edge and getting clamps right under as far as they reach . And that allows the base to be filled in later with drawers and still be able to clamp things down .

The other thing is make a false top that is just 12mm ply with an edge of nailed on solid that holds it in place and stops it sliding around . It slips on and stays in place all the time for all the dirty work like gluing up, paint stripping, polishing, staining and things like that, that you don't do on a work bench. You take it off for more fine clean work like laying things out, when you need a flat clean surface to lay jigs on and set things out.
My work table also has a vice at its end that I added last and twin dog holes . I take my lift off top off to use this for clamping round tops. If you leave a end free to do a Moxon style vice at a work table end one day with twin dogs , you will have another space to add a good later project keeping in mind you will have to drill dog holes in your work table top.

Basically, just start out with a table and a top that is spaced from the base . That allows clamping and drawers to be added later. And build it so the top matched what your later work bench height will be . Not critical as it can be adjusted if you start with castor room that can be played with later. A work table that matches bench height is great when working on large things that need to be off the ground . You can have an end of the work piece resting on each . It makes a big difference being able to do that sometimes.

Rob

[Chief Tiff]

You said you had a piece of 30mm ply 2700 x 600; are you intending the work surface to be that long? Generally 1800 - 2400mm is ample for a workbench.

As for mobility; castors tend to be a bit of a PITA as they never properly lock up and will allow the bench to move under loads like hand sawing, planing or chiseling. There are alternatives to popping a castor under each leg but they depend on how mobile you need it to be. My work area is under a carport adjacent to my shed so almost everything has to roll out of the shed onto a narrow footpath and then onto the slab under the carport; basically a “U” shaped journey with a 1” step down from the shed floor onto the footpath. Castors feature on the heavier of my machines due to the convoluted path but lighter ones just have fixed wheels at one end and I lift the other end like a wheelbarrow. One example would be fixed wheels at one end and a single castor at the other but mounted on a lever arrangement so it only comes into play when you are moving the bench. Or you can still fit castors but then have screw down feet located next to them; move the bench into position then wind the feet down until they take the load off the castors.

[auscab]

and a 30mm 2700x600 plywood sheet.



I missed that you had that to start with . 30 mm ply! That's nice and thick. What sort of veneers are in that?
Has someone glued two together?

[EagerBeaver71]

My thoughts
I'd call what you want more a work table more than a bench .

Yep, big distinction between the two, work table it is then, very over due! not sure how I've managed this far on a gate leg! :oo:.



Maybe look at it like one day it will be the table that sits in front of your work bench when you get around to doing one and make it so it can evolve with later time spent on it to add some of the handy details a good work table has .

Great advice Rob, I'll do exactly that.



What I did for a work table was to start with legs and rails that held a top and the top was added by fixing it to spacers that created a gap beneath the top and base . My top is around 50 mm thick . 25mm would be a minimum . Or two layers of ply glued together , 38mm ?. The gap is so you can clamp anything down to your top using the edge and getting clamps right under as far as they reach . And that allows the base to be filled in later with drawers and still be able to clamp things down .

Have you got any examples of a decent work table?. I'm thinking of 90x90mm legs to get started with and do like you said make the ends first rail and stile design. What joinery should I go for?.


The other thing is make a false top that is just 12mm ply with an edge of nailed on solid that holds it in place and stops it sliding around . It slips on and stays in place all the time for all the dirty work like gluing up, paint stripping, polishing, staining and things like that, that you don't do on a work bench. You take it off for more fine clean work like laying things out, when you need a flat clean surface to lay jigs on and set things out.

I'll take that!, another great idea.


My work table also has a vice at its end that I added last and twin dog holes . I take my lift off top off to use this for clamping round tops. If you leave a end free to do a Moxon style vice at a work table end one day with twin dogs , you will have another space to add a good later project keeping in mind you will have to drill dog holes in your work table top.

Any photo's of your work table Rob?.

What are your thoughts on this one?:

520544

[EagerBeaver71]

You said you had a piece of 30mm ply 2700 x 600; are you intending the work surface to be that long?

Blimey no! :o , I'm thinking more like 1400x600 or around that.


There are alternatives to popping a castor under each leg but they depend on how mobile you need it to be.

I've seen those, I'll have to look into it further.

[EagerBeaver71]

I missed that you had that to start with . 30 mm ply! That's nice and thick. What sort of veneers are in that?
Has someone glued two together?

Bunnings had it in one of their skips, it ended up falling into the back of my car. :U
Its a manufactured 30mm ply. I think its this one:

2250 x 600mm 30mm Plywood Pine BC Grade - Bunnings Australia (https://www.bunnings.com.au/2250-x-600mm-30mm-plywood-pine-bc-grade_p0390218)

[EagerBeaver71]

You said you had a piece of 30mm ply 2700 x 600

Sorry Chief, its 2250x600 not 2700.

[EagerBeaver71]

One thing is for sure I cannot continue my current coffee table build without first building a work table.

[auscab]

Any photo's of your work table Rob?.

What are your thoughts on this one?:

520544

It could be better .

Spacers between the top and base for clamping . The spacers are screwed down to the base . The top is screwed to the spacers through the top . Lots of BIG screws . So I can clamp doors and tops Im making to the work table top and it resists cupping . Keeping the work straight and flat. I use it as a veneer press as well because of the way it stays straight .

See the gap with the spacers.
It started as a basic frame with a top and everything was added over many years . I actually rebuilt it three times. It started off as my first workbench in in 1981. So I didn't start with the space under the top.
If you start with a base and spacers for the top though its a good start. If you build it strong.
I added drawers and top and vice and wheels. If I built it again which I was considering I would build the base so my pallet jack fitted underneath . But I added the wheels at one end and use the T handle to move it . Its full of steel so weighs to much for me to move without them .


520547 520548

That's it getting that dinning table top glued up on it below. Resting on bearers . If I'm having trouble keeping the top flat the clamps go from bearers to under the work table top. Same for doors. Parquetry veneered tops get done on it because I can put a bridge clamp on blocks on each side . Because the work table top doesnt cup up the pressing down of veneers stays flat which means the veneered top stays flat . If you glue veneer to a top that's bending it stays bent when it comes out of clamps . Its probably a bit hard to explain clearly all the things it can do if you build a work table well . Its not to much extra work to do. Wish I knew what I wanted first off and I wouldnt have had to do it three times.
520549

There it is in about 1994 after I pulled it in from being left outside and added a top and drawers to use it as a work table . And building my Jarrah workbench top on it.
520550 520551

[EagerBeaver71]

It could be better .

Spacers between the top and base for clamping . The spacers are screwed down to the base . The top is screwed to the spacers through the top . Lots of BIG screws . So I can clamp doors and tops Im making to the work table top and it resists cupping . Keeping the work straight and flat. I use it as a veneer press as well because of the way it stays straight .

See the gap with the spacers.
It started as a basic frame with a top and everything was added over many years . I actually rebuilt it three times. It started off as my first workbench in in 1981. So I didn't start with the space under the top.
If you start with a base and spacers for the top though its a good start. If you build it strong.
I added drawers and top and vice and wheels. If I built it again which I was considering I would build the base so my pallet jack fitted underneath . But I added the wheels at one end and use the T handle to move it . Its full of steel so weighs to much for me to move without them .


520547 520548

That's it getting that dinning table top glued up on it below. Resting on bearers . If I'm having trouble keeping the top flat the clamps go from bearers to under the work table top. Same for doors. Parquetry veneered tops get done on it because I can put a bridge clamp on blocks on each side . Because the work table top doesnt cup up the pressing down of veneers stays flat which means the veneered top stays flat . If you glue veneer to a top that's bending it stays bent when it comes out of clamps . Its probably a bit hard to explain clearly all the things it can do if you build a work table well . Its not to much extra work to do. Wish I knew what I wanted first off and I wouldnt have had to do it three times.
520549

That right there would do me perfectly!, excellent design and totally functional. Its really given me alot of food for thought now. I've done a few drawings but having seen yours I'll have to make some modifications and re-measurements taking into account everything you have said. I'll post my design idea's tomorrow for your assessment.

As always, thanks for all your valuable advice Rob.

[EagerBeaver71]

520550 520551

I was going to ask, whats do you have on the other side, I refreshed the page and you added the last two photo's. I've seen your workbench build, goes without saying, its a masterpiece.

[EagerBeaver71]

I decided to go old school and draw my plans upo this time though I will transfer this to the computer to get correct measurements etc. I cant see any way to improve on your cabinet design Rob, as an ex-graphic artist your cabinet fits the bill for everything a workbench table should be.

Top drawing is done in 3-point perspective.

520592

[derekcohen]

My Ikea gate leg table just isn't cutting it any longer and I'm not too happy about having to use the cabinet top as a perfectly flat surface for reference/glue ups. So I need to make a cheap but half decent workbench out of some pine 2x4's and a 30mm 2700x600 plywood sheet. I don't need bench dogs or all that jazz yet, I just need to be able to clamp stuff to the edge and assemble projects, so the surface has to be flat and maybe have a shelf underneath, maybe a bit of storage space. And the most important thing is that its mobile, so everything on casters.

Any suggestions most appreciated!.

Merry Xmas

EB, my current bench build (still underway) may be helpful …

Building a MFT (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/building-mft-249706)

https://i.postimg.cc/MxXnvc4r/16.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[EagerBeaver71]

EB, my current bench build (still underway) may be helpful …

Building a MFT (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/building-mft-249706)

https://i.postimg.cc/MxXnvc4r/16.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

Nice one Derek, can the top be replaced when need be?.

[derekcohen]

Hi EB

Yes, the top is simply screwed down. It is a laminated Merbau panel, which is available from Bunnings. This one came in 1200 long x 450mm wide and 25mm thick. I added 150mm to the width to make a panel 600 wide, but this was for a MFT bench.

It runs on castors, which make the bench unstable for hand sawing or planing from the sides (will rock a little). However, it is stable to work from the ends. My use will be work holding for routing, power sanding, power sawing, and assembly. Plus it is a convenient height to use as an outfeed for tablesaw and jointer.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[auscab]

I decided to go old school and draw my plans upo this time though I will transfer this to the computer to get correct measurements etc. I cant see any way to improve on your cabinet design Rob, as an ex-graphic artist your cabinet fits the bill for everything a workbench table should be.

Top drawing is done in 3-point perspective.

520592

Nice drawing Sam . I work off the same type all the time .

Some things I didn't mention before that you can see in my pictures. The space under the top has its own bottom as well . I did this so any liquids I spill when my loose top was off wouldn't go through the dog holes . I then discovered that it was also a good handy place to keep my oil stones. They sit on a scrap of thin ply that acts as a slide so when I slide it out the three oil stones come out at once. so you may want to make sure that space with a bottom can do that bit extra for you if you have the need.

I see the end for a vice. If you do a wood face like Derek's with a metal vice or if it were me I'd do two wood threads Moxon style but thicker than Derek's and have two dog holes that match a line of two dog holes down the top . Then You'd be able to clamp things for Dog type work but most important is the ability for holding round tops . My Emmert does this and its what I have so far used the Emmert mostly for over the years . All the other features of the Emmert I hardly use . The good thing about a Moxon type and two dogs is its nice and simple and strong. The Emmert type I have is known for its brittle cast iron and a lot of care has to be taken not to over crank it to tight . I have been good with it but when I had younger guys sometimes using it a cast dog got broken and anything else could have happened. But it didn't luckily. Mainly because I said "Stay away!" unless other wise told.
The Moxon type is great for marking out and cutting dovetails on big box ends like tool boxes or carcase work . If its wide enough. I also do that stuff on my workbench which is why a well on a workbench is a must . One side of the job is held in my vice and the other has a clamp going from the work to the well .

[EagerBeaver71]

Nice drawing Sam . I work off the same type all the time .

Thanks Rob, I normally start with sketch as I can be more creative and think better with a pencil in my hand rather than a mouse.



Some things I didn't mention before that you can see in my pictures. The space under the top has its own bottom as well . I did this so any liquids I spill when my loose top was off wouldn't go through the dog holes . I then discovered that it was also a good handy place to keep my oil stones. They sit on a scrap of thin ply that acts as a slide so when I slide it out the three oil stones come out at once. so you may want to make sure that space with a bottom can do that bit extra for you if you have the need.

I'm not sure which part you mean?

[EagerBeaver71]

Just started transferring the plans to sketchup. Would I be ok with 25mm deep mortise & tenons on the ends?:

520610

[EagerBeaver71]

Unfortunately or maybe not unfortunately, I've rough cut the rails and the shortest would only allow for 25mm M&T, thats why I asked :C

[auscab]

25mm will be OK if you do a tight job of the tenons . Just add screws if its sloppy . My table started very rough . It was all second hand de nailed house frame hardwood . The joins are halving joints all roughly sawn out with a circular saw, two pack glued with 1/2 inch dowels through pegging them together . You can still see the joinery in the pics. How I was easily able to add a bottom to the top section later on the third re build was.

The base started out like this. That top horizontal on the narrow end should be lower in the drawing

520611 520612

Then on the last rebuild I added a ply top to the base. Just nailed on .
520613

Then 4 WA Karri hardwood beams roughly 50mm thick were screwed down with bugle screws to the side rails over the ply. And roughly a 50 mm thick WA Karri top screwed though to the beams in 4 places to each beam.
520614 520615
That's how a ply bottom to the spaces was worked out . And How I ended up with a strong no flex top.

There is three drawers in one end that run all the way through . The red arrow to the rail is a rail I added later on the third build by just screwing it in . Pocket screw style .
520616

The only thing I have regretted about doing it this way was shaping the beam like on the left where it goes right to the edge of the top like that . To many times I go to clamp something and I run into the end of a beam where I cant clamp so I have to re adjust things. If I ever re do that Ill do it something like on the right where I can at least grab the edge .
520617 520618

[EagerBeaver71]

25mm will be OK if you do a tight job of the tenons.

Got it, as tight as a nuns you know what.


two pack glued with 1/2 inch dowels through pegging them together .

Two pack glue?, whats that?.


How I was easily able to add a bottom to the top section later on the third re build was.

Do you always design things with a mind to mod later? (with workshop furniture obviously).




Then on the last rebuild I added a ply top to the base. Just nailed on .
520613

With the top being disposable, is there some sort of hardware I can add to save ware and tear of the screw/bolt going in?, something like metal threaded insert?.





The only thing I have regretted about doing it this way was shaping the beam like on the left where it goes right to the edge of the top like that . To many times I go to clamp something and I run into the end of a beam where I cant clamp so I have to re adjust things. If I ever re do that Ill do it something like on the right where I can at least grab the edge .
520617 520618

I saw that design feature and concluded you did it to get total rigidity across the entire surface. I may steal that Idea of the second drawing :U.

Sorry for all the questions Rob, I'm soaking the information up like a sponge and could probably go on all day if they let me!. I'll be starting on the legs tomorrow. I cant express how satisfying it is to now be able to mill my own timber and have it flat level and square, loving it!.

[EagerBeaver71]

EB, my current bench build (still underway) may be helpful …

Building a MFT (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/building-mft-249706)

https://i.postimg.cc/MxXnvc4r/16.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks for the link mate, I'll be reading that later!.

[auscab]

Two pack glue?, whats that?. Epoxy .
two pack glue - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=two+pack+glue)




Do you always design things with a mind to mod later? (with workshop furniture obviously).
Not usually . This is an extreme example . Its mainly because it started as a need for a workbench when I was 18 and I was in a mad rush. I didn't draw it or plan it and just did it on the run then found that fitting the vice was going to be too hard because of that and never used it . It was timber from my parents house renovation and I kept it for years hanging around . Then one day I needed a work table and I was sentimental about it . So I pulled it in from the rain and just kept adapting it to my needs from then on.





With the top being disposable, is there some sort of hardware I can add to save ware and tear of the screw/bolt going in?, something like metal threaded insert?.

The top in those last drawings isnt disposable . Its fixed down and doesn't come off. The slip on removable top sits on top of all that . Its a light weight cover top for the messy jobs .

I have two of these in my workshop . This later one was made when I had a need for a second . It does the same with the gap under the top. Being purpose made and matched to the first one its build is much more sleek and its half the weight .
you can see the gaps under the top for clamping .
520628 520629
And with its loose top off. The loose top is just 1/2 inch chipboard and was the scrap from an old jig .
This has no vice or dog holes. It has the same wheel set up for moving it and I find I can just push it around .
520630 520631

It sits in front of the other bench but also matches my first work table so large items can be put up on both tables with a space in between . For big things like this .
520623







I saw that design feature and concluded you did it to get total rigidity across the entire surface. I may steal that Idea of the second drawing :U.



Yeah very rigid is good for the clamping and pressing .

[EagerBeaver71]

Then 4 WA Karri hardwood beams roughly 50mm thick were screwed down with bugle screws to the side rails over the ply. And roughly a 50 mm thick WA Karri top screwed though to the beams in 4 places to each beam.

With it being screwed down to the beams is there any issue with the WA Kerri top expanding?.

[auscab]

With it being screwed down to the beams is there any issue with the WA Kerri top expanding?.

No movement that Ive noticed since I screwed it down . It also has two decent Bread board ends on it which I did on the third build.
Screwing allows movement to some degree. It'd be a different story if I glued it down across the grain to those beams .

At the start when I first made the Karri top it did split at each join after a while. Then on the second build I re joined it and those joints split again . The timber was adjusting to the dry workshop. When I first bought the wood in to be made into a top and fitted to the base the wood came from under a tarp. It was stacked in the back yard over grass. Heavy duty hardwoods shift and just split glue joins very easily when they move.

[EagerBeaver71]

No movement that Ive noticed since I screwed it down . It also has two decent Bread board ends on it which I did on the third build.
Screwing allows movement to some degree. It'd be a different story if I glued it down across the grain to those beams .

Ah now that's something I didn't know!, excellent. You're worth your weight in gold thanks Rob.

Have a great Christmas to you and ya family mate,

Sam

And merry Christmas to everyone on the forums :U

[EagerBeaver71]

I just brought some 33mm 2400x900 red oak from Bunnings. I don't think $187 is too bad?. Anyway, this is going to be the table top, its a mighty heavy piece and was glad when I had it rough cut to size!.


Hmmm.... early Xmas present to me.
520691


There's no way you could cut this in one pass with a Makita Tracksaw, that's why I brought a more powerful Saw (still by Makita) and just made my own track jig to use on a cheap Ozito track. The saw cut through it in one pass like butter.
520692

[Bushmiller]

EB

Others have commented on the build quite adequately. As far as mobility and wheels go you either need substantial, load carrying wheels with brakes or a method of raising the bench/table off the wheels so it sits firmly on the legs. Incidentally, nice solid legs are good on work benches: think 100mm x 100mm if possible. this is a relatively simple solution to lifting the bench off the wheels:

520699

Don't skimp on the hinges or the fixing screws even though they will not be load bearing for the majority of the time. Recycled butt door hinges would be a cheap option. Not my idea, but one of the easiest I have seen.

Regards
Paul