Paving a path - what steps can be omitted?

[derekcohen]

A question about paving for those of you who have done this before.

I am in the process of landscaping the garden at the rear of the house. I am working on a path that winds its way from a back gate (one of two back gates on our property - this one has little traffic) and joins up with a long veranda (which is already paved). This path is about 13 m long and 3 m wide on average (it starts at 2.4 m at the gate and widens out to 4.5 m before linking in with the lawn).

The soil in Perth is more like beach sand - very dry and soft. Water drainage is excellent.

I am using 200 x 100 clay pavers. On the one side of the of the path is an external wall of the house, on the other side is a retaining wall to be built from limestone blocks.

So far I have dug out the path (all on my own!). Tomorrow I plan to hire a compactor.

Here are the questions:

(1) Do I need to lay down a special bedding layer, such as crushed rock or gravel? I thought that I could forgo this level since the path is going to have very light use and, at most, carry the weight of an adult human (not a car).

(2) Assuming that I do not need a bedding layer, do I need to screed the compacted sand with (yellow) builders sand in the levelling process? The top layer of the compacted sand will dry very quickly (assuming I dampen it slightly when compacting, and even if I don't) and become powdery. It will be easy enough to scrape this flat (straight edge on aluminium runners). My understanding of the screeding sand is that it is just to aid in the levelling process.

(3) Is it better to do the limestone edging/retaining wall before laying the pavers (except for those that need to be cut in at the end), or should I put the limestone blocks in afterward?

Hoping that the New Year brings you everything that you desire ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

[bitingmidge]

Derek,

I am a complete klutz (whatever that is) when it comes to anything to do with levelling, concrete etc.... but in the absence of Squizzy:

All the info you ever wanted to know can be found here: http://www.cmaa.com.au/html/TechInfo/TechInfoPaving.html

Take the following with a grain of salt:

1) You may get away with not laying down a crushed rock bed, but ants nesting under and water flowing erratically through the pavement can lead to strange dips and bumps over times.

In similar conditions I have been known to sprinkle cement over the levelled sand and gently rake it in about an inch down. I don't know if it really works, but it should give the top inch or so a bit of "stick togetherness".

2) I'd use LOTS of water and a plate/ vibrating compactor, if you get a soft spot or two, be prepared to use a bit of sand! Note, this is only going to compact the top 100mm or so; providing your sand subsoil is reasonably compact you'll be OK, if not... you won't! At least if the paving dips you'll be able to dig it up and fix it relatively easily.

3) I'd put the blocks in as I went.
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, if you are really confident of getting them in at absolutely the right width, do them first by all means, but I'd need the small amount of "wobble space" that doing them last gives.

You'll need to be a little careful that you don't undermine the sand, and again, I'd be using mortar at the edge to keep things nice and stable long term.

cheers,

P(good luck!)

:D

[Driver]

Derek

Here are some answers:



(1) Do I need to lay down a special bedding layer, such as crushed rock or gravel? I thought that I could forgo this level since the path is going to have very light use and, at most, carry the weight of an adult human (not a car).

No you don't need to use gravel or crushed rock. As long as you have the sand reasonably well compacted, you won't get much movement if the path is only for pedestrian traffic. My entire brick-paved patio (12 metres x 6 metres) is laid only on sand.


(2) Assuming that I do not need a bedding layer, do I need to screed the compacted sand with (yellow) builders sand in the levelling process? The top layer of the compacted sand will dry very quickly (assuming I dampen it slightly when compacting, and even if I don't) and become powdery. It will be easy enough to scrape this flat (straight edge on aluminium runners). My understanding of the screeding sand is that it is just to aid in the levelling process.

Yellow building sand will help. It's a bit more malleable and stable than the normal sandy sub-soil. It's not absolutely necessary.


(3) Is it better to do the limestone edging/retaining wall before laying the pavers (except for those that need to be cut in at the end), or should I put the limestone blocks in afterward?

In general it would be preferable to install the retaining wall before you lay the path but it depends on the retaining wall height. If it's anything more than 500 mm, you should take it back under the area of the path by at least half its height. If it's less than this, depending upon the thickness of the wall, you may be able to get away with installing at later. My own preference would be always to build the wall first.

The Squizzman will be able to offer even more expert advice.

Col

[Robert WA]

Derek.

Been there, done that, in Geraldton and Albany.

WA white or grey sand does not compact well. You can lay paving on it but you may get some movement. Be prepared to support your paving by providing some sort of edge.

Ants are a real problem. They will undermine the paving and cause blocks to subside. Be prepared to keep them under control with Antex or some such.

Cheers

Rob

[chromis]

Generally any paving job (in Perth) will be on 25mm of compacted yellow. Compact and screed off with a straight edge. After you have laid the pavers make sure they are further compacted and level with a rubber mallet and filled the gaps, chuck another couple of mm of yellow over the whole lot. Bolt a really chunky piece of ply on the bottom of your compactor (low revs) and run over it again. If you have compacted and levelled correctly in the first place this gives you a really clean finish.

I'd concrete any curves or obviously potential problematic edges.

[Farm boy]

derek
try and get some craker dust(finely crushed stone) it is great stuff to lay pavers on after you have compacted it

[vsquizz]

Sorry Derek, been busy, give me a call when you have time and put a soaker hose on it for a couple of hours.

Cheers

[derekcohen]

Oh my aching back!

Including compacting the sand, today I laid nearly 2 pallets of clay brick pavers as well as all the limestone blocks for the retaining walls alongside the path.

The sand compacted well-ish. I sprayed a fair amount of water on the sand before I ran the compactor over it (it lay there in pools), and then I redid this about 3 times. Eventually, when I scruffed the wet surface, it was dry underneath.

Well it was a learning experience and I still have a second section to do. At least it does not require the same amount of excavation.

I need to return the compactor tomorrow morning, and will get it back when I return to the task in another day. I assume that there is no time frame for compacting the brick path?

Thanks to all for your help so far.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stylesy]

Derek,

Did the paving job from hell last year - courtyard, wall to fence all the way to the door, including carrying all materials through the house (compactor included!). I did what bitingmidge suggested and scattered cement over the yellow sand as I compacted - just make sure if you do this that you screed straight away, or at least before any rain. A tip I picked up also was that when finished and it's time to sweep in the white sand, add a heap of salt (bag of pool salt will do, crushed up through the "stomping" method) - the ants apparently hate it, so won't burrow up to the surface through it. It must work, because the driveway paving has sand hills everywhere from the ants, while the new paving has none.

[derekcohen]

Craig

Thanks. Those are great ideas. I'm back on the job this weekend (as long as the rain holds off), and will use them.

Regards

Derek