Spindle steady for lathe.

[auscab]

Ive been researching and see that the common three point steady's you see on wood lathes are not the preferred type by experienced pro wood turners. F Pain in his book, The practical Wood Turner, writes how good these are .
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I follow Steve the wood turner on instagram and watch him using that type as well and it looks very good . But there is the friction thing and I'm wondering if this two wheel type would be the way to go instead?


Steve uses this . Same as F. Pain in his book says to use but a wood prop from behind adds pressure rather than a wedge.
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Here's Steve using it.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CqLLQ6OoWHg/

I'm wondering if one of these they say is a Bowl steady would do the job better on a thin spindle ?
Its from S/E Q Woodworking .
Woodworking Supplies S/E QLD - Bowl Steady (https://www.woodworkingsuppliesqld.com.au/Lathe-Accessories2/Bowl-Steady)
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Any one use either type, wooden or two wheels on spindles or do you still use the three point steady ?

I have, and have used a three point steady but want to try the older way . They look a lot faster to set up getting them on and off for one . And they are more out of the way when turning.

Rob

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I have made and use a couple of 3-point steadies but I really don't use them that often as they're rarely the best choice for the jobs I like to do.

More often I use string steadies or simply hook a finger over and behind the spindle if it's thin enough to do so. (Then again, for many years I had no fingerprints on a few fingers. :rolleyes:)

As with most tools, I choose the type of steady depending on why I want any steady in there at all... different tools for different uses.

Generally speaking, one shouldn't rely on a steady to prevent catches. At best they'll slightly reduce the risk of a catch due to the wood "chattering" uinder load.

Where a wheeled steady excels is acting as a safety net. In case things go wrong (a nasty catch? An inadvertent bump?) it'll most likely trap the work on the lathe rather than having it UFO across the room. Hopefully minimising any damage and leaving things in a recoverable state.

A 2-wheeled steady would fail miserably there.

On t'other hand, wooden blocks, string steadies and hooked fingers are pretty much useless against catches but they work well for damping out excess vibration and flex when that is the primary concern.

All that being said, I wouldn't say no to adding the pictured 2-wheeled steady to my collection. I can think of a couple of times in the past when it would've been handy. It just wouldn't be regular go-to.

[Mobyturns]

The design of many of the spindle and bowl steadies I see, don't seem very practical either in a production environment or purely for ease of use. For a production spindle turner quick, accurate adjustment would be a priority over absolute accuracy from say a 3 wheel steady.

To me the placement and the range of adjustments for the wheels etc don't seem to efficiently address the forces applied to the work piece whilst turning. Equal and opposite forces sort of thing!

For spindle turning with the skew, spindle gouge etc they are generally presented well above the horizon (or 9 o'clock viewed from tailstock) so the thrust of forces tends to be towards the 4 to 5 o'clock position. My theory is that the steady's two wheels are probably best positioned at the 6 and 2 to 3 o'clock positions.

For HF and bowl turning the individual adjustments of each wheel of a 3 or 4 wheel steady seems rather laborious, with potential for mal-adjusted setups (more force applied by one wheel?) that may actually crush a vessel as it becomes thinner. Now a scroll operated bowl steady would be a nicety!

It still comes back to the knowledge, experience and skill of the turner.

[dubrosa22]

For spindle forms I frequently use a 3-wheeled steady like this one: https://mcjing.com.au/steadfast-steady-rest.html (https://mcjing.com.au/steadfast-steady-rest.html)

I use them to steady flutes while boring/reaming:
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Cheap and cheerful but I'm curious about the designs you've illustrated here.

V

[auscab]

I have made and use a couple of 3-point steadies but I really don't use them that often as they're rarely the best choice for the jobs I like to do.

More often I use string steadies or simply hook a finger over and behind the spindle if it's thin enough to do so. (Then again, for many years I had no fingerprints on a few fingers. :rolleyes:)

As with most tools, I choose the type of steady depending on why I want any steady in there at all... different tools for different uses.

Generally speaking, one shouldn't rely on a steady to prevent catches. At best they'll slightly reduce the risk of a catch due to the wood "chattering" uinder load.

Where a wheeled steady excels is acting as a safety net. In case things go wrong (a nasty catch? An inadvertent bump?) it'll most likely trap the work on the lathe rather than having it UFO across the room. Hopefully minimising any damage and leaving things in a recoverable state.

A 2-wheeled steady would fail miserably there.

On t'other hand, wooden blocks, string steadies and hooked fingers are pretty much useless against catches but they work well for damping out excess vibration and flex when that is the primary concern.

All that being said, I wouldn't say no to adding the pictured 2-wheeled steady to my collection. I can think of a couple of times in the past when it would've been handy. It just wouldn't be regular go-to.

String steady's ! Ive never heard of them . Just googled and had a quick look. OK . I don't think they are what I'm after at the moment but good to see.
What I'm wanting is to steady long spindle work . Ive got a very fine spindly leg table that has legs like 600 mm long legs that are about 19mm thick that I want to copy one day. Among other stuff . Just the other day I was turning some legs that needed a steady and I don't have one for the lathe I was using.
I tried speeding the lathe up . slowing it down . Going slow speed with the lathe and very slow with the skew feed gave me the the best finish but there was still a vibration going on that was causing a spiral pattern in the leg to appear. I think a steady would have solved that problem ?

I wasn't thinking a steady had anything to do with preventing catches either. Do they do that as well ?

[The Spin Doctor]

I have a very simple steady as can be seen in the pic. It just camps to the bed and I tap it with a mallet to snug up to the turned bearing point on the spindle. It's got metal shoes to eliminate wear and I use wax as a lubricant.

For spindle work I would suspect the ones with wheels and lots of moveable parts will allow for vibration that will translate into a harmonic finish. This one will do about 70mm.

The three point wheeled ones I have always considered them best for bowl or vase work.

[auscab]

The design of many of the spindle and bowl steadies I see, don't seem very practical either in a production environment or purely for ease of use. For a production spindle turner quick, accurate adjustment would be a priority over absolute accuracy from say a 3 wheel steady.

To me the placement and the range of adjustments for the wheels etc don't seem to efficiently address the forces applied to the work piece whilst turning. Equal and opposite forces sort of thing!

For spindle turning with the skew, spindle gouge etc they are generally presented well above the horizon (or 9 o'clock viewed from tailstock) so the thrust of forces tends to be towards the 4 to 5 o'clock position. My theory is that the steady's two wheels are probably best positioned at the 6 and 2 to 3 o'clock positions.

For HF and bowl turning the individual adjustments of each wheel of a 3 or 4 wheel steady seems rather laborious, with potential for mal-adjusted setups (more force applied by one wheel?) that may actually crush a vessel as it becomes thinner. Now a scroll operated bowl steady would be a nicety!

It still comes back to the knowledge, experience and skill of the turner.


I Have some saved skate board wheels somewhere. My first search failed to find them. I was thinking of making one until I saw the two wheeled one I put up. It seems a reasonably good price compared to making a similar adjustable unit the same size I think.
The older timber method gives support around the back of the turning, like you say, from the tail stock end, from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock. Which is probably what is so good about them.
The two wheeled ones pivot in the middle like scissors only I'm pretty sure, so adjustments are limited to matching the top with the bottom possibly. Two wheels at 12 and 6 o'clock are no good . It would have to be between 1 and 2 o'clock for the top and 4 and 5 o'clock for the bottom. Perhaps between 12 and 1 and 5 and 6 o'clock would be better?
Just looking again maybe they can be adjusted to different angles on that center pivot as well but I think the positions have to be equal to each other? If that makes sense? More info on the website would be nice. They are good at replying to questions though . I asked today and got a reply saying they are used on spindle work as well as bowls.


Now a scroll operated bowl steady would be a nicety!
one of those spiral adjustable ones ?
Who uses them ? Metal workers ?

[auscab]

I have a very simple steady as can be seen in the pic. It just camps to the bed and I tap it with a mallet to snug up to the turned bearing point on the spindle. It's got metal shoes to eliminate wear and I use wax as a lubricant.

For spindle work I would suspect the ones with wheels and lots of moveable parts will allow for vibration that will translate into a harmonic finish. This one will do about 70mm.

The three point wheeled ones I have always considered them best for bowl or vase work.

A harmonic finish ! Is that what its called. Another new one :2tsup:

[auscab]

For spindle forms I frequently use a 3-wheeled steady like this one: https://mcjing.com.au/steadfast-steady-rest.html (https://mcjing.com.au/steadfast-steady-rest.html)

I use them to steady flutes while boring/reaming:
525873

Cheap and cheerful but I'm curious about the designs you've illustrated here.

V

Nice pic and link. I hadn't seen them. By the looks I'm not sure about the leverage issue of the top arm. Must lock well does it ?

Ill take some better pics of that book about the old steady and put it up.

Maybe its just a matter of me trying the wood type and the two wheel . Make one then spend the $ if I have to to find out ? All in the name of a good time :)

[auscab]

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[Pat]

There is another, specific steady for longer spindle work, with 4 wheels and encaptures the entire job. I'll have to see if I can find a pic of it, somewhere. I have seen them used on jobs up to 8.5 meters. Yes they are a custom item, I dont know of any manufacturer that produces them.

I also have been taught to use "steadies" about 1/3 lenght from the tail stock, instead of the middle of the job. The reasoning is to better support the job, while allowing unfettered access to part of the job and minimizing the harmonic distortion (whiplash) from over pressure of the tool.

[doragus]

You can see one of the circular rests at Woodturning Steady Rest - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?&q=wood+turning+spindle+steady&docid=603533331359420212&mid=C88CF93FC97A469CBE04C88CF93FC97A469CBE04&view=detail&FORM=VDRVRV&ajaxhist=0), There are a number of them on the web. Just search wood turning spindle steady rest.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I wasn't thinking a steady had anything to do with preventing catches either. Do they do that as well ?

Only to a minor degree.

Chatter while removing bulk volume can easily induce a nasty catch. (The same is true for finishing cuts, but they tend to unwanted catches rather than disastrous ones. :D)

So steadies reduce the risk of catches in the sense that they can reduce or limit the degree of chatter.

[hughie]

As I rarely do any spindle work, I do some production work very in frequently in the way of wooden rollers for very old barrel mowers. So for me its skate board wheels on homemade mild steel frames out of flat bar and angle iron made specifically to suit my lathes. What I do is to grind the polyurethane tyre? To a rather narrow tread so it has some give. They are simply made for ease of adjustment and ability, are they the best design? Probably not, but they work for me and I would think most spindle work would be between centres, and therefore negate the use or the need.

But much depends on what is being turned chair legs, house finials, Newel posts etc shouldn't need any support and for production work I cant see it being of any use as it would be too slow to adjust I have a project/idea/thought bubble :) To turn and carve a African type walking stick about 1.5m in length. Although it will be in some very old Iron-bark it will need a some sort of support in middle, will figure that out when I get there

[The Spin Doctor]

A harmonic finish ! Is that what its called. Another new one :2tsup:


If someone were to play with rpms and such they could probably come up with an interesting finishes to spindles similar to chatter work or face plate work, which is essentially a harmonic vibration of a thin tool.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

But much depends on what is being turned chair legs, house finials, Newel posts etc shouldn't need any support and for production work I cant see it being of any use as it would be too slow to adjust

There's a definite place for steady's in production turning, even for newels, etc. After all, for efficiency things are normally batched and not necessarily completed from start to finish on a one-by-one basis.

I've seen some awesome home-made steadies designed purely for quick turnover, one of which I seriously covet even though it'd sit idle for 99.99% of it's life with me. (And that .01% would be mainly be me hefting it around the shed to get it out of the way of some project. :- )



If someone were to play with rpms and such they could probably come up with an interesting finishes to spindles similar to chatter work or face plate work, which is essentially a harmonic vibration of a thin tool.

I'd imagine so. But I'm pretty confident that the reliabilty would be more consistent if they just used the appropriate chatter tool instead.

Still, "Viva l'experimentation!" :D

[Mobyturns]

If someone were to play with rpms and such they could probably come up with an interesting finishes to spindles similar to chatter work or face plate work, which is essentially a harmonic vibration of a thin tool.

That's already been done by an Aussie turner living in NZ - Alby Hall. Controlled harmonics.

[auscab]

Scooter wheels with led lights for a spindle steady.
:D

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looks great how he can turn through the spindle right past the steady and the steady just moves forward a touch.

Click right to see it running in link

https://www.instagram.com/p/CoZt1WEo7AJ/


And this one .

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cq7g2kLoC-g/

I think Ill try something like that version of steady .

Rob .

[The Spin Doctor]

Never seen anyone pull the skew backwards before.

[wood spirit]

Haven't had the need for one yet, but have contemplated roller blade wheels - softer than plain ball bearings 3 would definitely have better support.

[auscab]

Never seen anyone pull the skew backwards before.

Take a look at Stevethewoodturner doing it . The shaving ! Its not reverse video either . I think someone accused him of that once . Joking probably.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cr0HstQxIGl/

[Fumbler]

How about this one?

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[auscab]

How about this one?


Thats a nice looking one . I have a cast iron version of that. It’s a bit smaller and I use it on the Woodfast lathe. Carbatec and others sell them . It’s got three arms and ball bearing wheels . I need another larger steady for the Wadkin lathe and want to try out the two wheel or older friction type. Which is why I was asking if anyone had tried them. As well as posting something on forum to add some life to it :) .
If I ever have the need for bowl or hollow vessel steady that is what I’d be making though . Is that what you’re using it for ?
Rob

[Fumbler]

Predominantly yes, those longer pesky jobs. Apologies, I should’ve read the post fully.

[NeilS]

If I ever have the need for bowl or hollow vessel steady that is what I’d be making though.

Rob

I've never felt the need for a steady with bowl or hollow form work and I do all of those outboard anyway... I find that fingers are sufficient to steady any thin work of that type that might start to deflect.

I don't expect you have any need for very thin spindle work in cabinet making, but should you do so, a combination of wheel and string steadies is used by Jean-Francois Escoulen in his absurdly long and thin 'trembleur' pieces... about as far away from production work as you could get!

Video640 escoulen you - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ik-Dy1NC_8)

I have also played around with turning very thin spindles (down to 3mm) by turning them under tension. Once I got the setup and technique right, I found it less of a fiddle than using steadies.

3mm spindle - turned under tension - YouTube (https://youtu.be/bTDRT8hjvrU)

[auscab]

I don't have a need for doing stuff that thin Neil . The turning placed in the glass tube is pretty incredible.
Never thought of a turning being done in tension either. I know reducing the pressure of the tail stock to a minimum can help. In tension though is a interesting thought. Thanks for the links.

Rob

[chuck1]

I have a 2 wheel steady for spindle turning, Rollerblade wheels with upgraded bearings having the wheel behind and Finished oak dowel - YouTube (https://youtu.be/SElH0tjT6MA) works well.

[chuck1]

Haven't had the need for one yet, but have contemplated roller blade wheels - softer than plain ball bearings 3 would definitely have better support.


3 wheels is counter productive on balusters, 2 wheels can be set with the lathe running.

[auscab]

I have a 2 wheel steady for spindle turning, Rollerblade wheels with upgraded bearings having the wheel behind and Finished oak dowel - YouTube (https://youtu.be/SElH0tjT6MA) works well.

That's looking good.
I have the wheels but just need to get around to fitting them up to the holder on my lathe.

Why did you upgrade the bearings ? Did you wear the first ones out because they are rubbish?
Or did you have the option to buy better when you got the wheels ?

Rob

[chuck1]

With the amount of balusters I turn the bearings that came with the wheels are not designed for the prolonged and high rpm so I bought sealed nachi quest bearings from engineering place.

They have worked well with 100's of balusters and other spindle turning speeds up to 1800 rpm , I've been using the same wheels and bearings for 10 years.