MAKING YOUR OWN SCRAPERS

[John Thuijs]

I have just bought my first lathe (a Technatool T1000) second hand. This has left me short of cash to buy any chisels in the immediate future. I have made a scraper and a parting tool out of a couple of files which are working quite nicely. They have enabled me to turn the handles for the chisels and also a small bowl. Could anyone tell me if there is an optimum angle that the scraper and the parting tool should be ground at? Also when some funds become available what should be the first chisels that I should buy as a very basic set. I have done a bit of woodturning before on my fathers lathe so I am not a complete beginner.

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John Thuijs

[RETIRED]

Gooday John, welcome to the BB. First off I would not advise using files for any thing other than what they were intended. The steel is extemely brittle and any dig in will generally result in the tool snapping sometimes with fatal results. The tools required are dictated by whether you intend to do mainly spindle or faceplate (bowl) work. There is great discussion about what people see as the "basic beginners set". My choice are these: Spindle; 3/4" spindle gouge (can be used for roughing down as well) 1/8" parting tool and a 1" skew. For bowl work; 3/8" deep fluted bowl gouge and a 1" round nosed scraper. All high speed steel. You can do about 90% of your work with these. Happy turning.

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Ian () Robertson
"We do good turns every day"

[Marshall Gorrow]

Hi John, If you do use an old file to make a tool, make sure that you heat it red hot and let it cool slowly. Grind the scrapers at about 60° and the parting tools at 25°. Also clean the groves off the file. After shaping heat the tool to cherry red and quickly dip it in so motor oil stir it around to cool it quickly. Polish it up. Then reheat until it turns light straw colored and quench it again. That will temper it so it won't break. When you resharpen it be careful not to get it so hot that it turns blue or it will be to soft to be of any use! As soon as you can replace it with high speed steel tools as they will hold an edge much longer. A 1/2" spindle gouge is one of the handiest all around tools. A 3/16" diamond parting tool is an easy tool to part with and also turns small beads easily. I have several skews, but use a 3/4' oval skew about 80 to 90% of the time. a 3/8" spindle gouge will also get a lot of detail use. I use a 1 1/4" roughing gouge a lot. It will remove excess wood faster than anything else. The wings can also be used like a skew. For bowl turning it's hard to beat a 3/8" deep flute bowl gouge and a 1" round nose scraper to start with. If you have a friend who is a blacksmith you can make tools out of truck springs and pitch fork tangs. Just make sure to temper them correctly and don't exspect them to stay sharp as long as HSS! You can buy m-2 and A-11 HSS stock but it is a little more finicky then high carbon tool steel to harden and temper correctly. If you are serious about wanting to make your own tools talk to some local tool and die makers!

[Glenn.Visca]

Rather than add a new question....I thought I might continue this thread.

I have just been given a couple of 6' lengths of 1" x 1/4" tool steel.

Given the comments in the previous posts about tempering etc., I am now wondering whether I need to follow that process as well ?

Any comments ?

Glenn.

[RETIRED]

Gooday.

That should be fine for chisels.

We use Bohleret(?) tool steel for our skews.

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Ian () Robertson
"We do good turns every day"

[Glenn.Visca]

Do you temper them prior to use...or just cut'em and grind'em.

[jclucas]

John
Although I will agree with the recommendation to use other tools than files you can simply heat the files from 350 to 450 degrees for 30 minutes in the oven. This will take the brittleness out of them and make them safer. I say safer because they will never be as safe as using a know steel that you can heat treat using the manufacturers instructions.
You can of course go through the whole heat treating process which makes it easier to shape, bend, drill, etc. But since you don't know what components are in the steel that the file is made of there isn't any way to know how to heat treat it accurately.

Here in the US people are buying small pieces of high carbon steel or High Speed steel and using that instead of files. Look for places that sell steel to machine shops and you should be able to get a piece about the length and shape you want. High speed steel you can't heat treat yourself but will work fine as is. High Carbon steel you can heat treat like the others have already mentioned.
Once you have heated a file to 300 or 400 degrees you should be able to file or grind the teeth off. This way it won't damage your tool rest, which is another reason to just buy good steel.
The best bet of course is to buy good tools but I've been in your shoes and in fact still use several tools I have made from files.
I find old screwdrivers, allen wrenches, even old wrenches can be reground to make serviceable tools. I just made a wonderful thin parting tool from, what we call, a Keyhole saw. I ground off all the teeth and shaped the tip the way I wanted. It cost .99cents US.
Good luck and be sure to wear glasses when working with the files, as others have said they can be dangerous. John

[RETIRED]

WELL SAID Stoppers. Couldn't have done it better.

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Ian () Robertson
"We do good turns every day"

[CameronPotter]

... I just made a wonderful thin parting tool from, what we call, a Keyhole saw. I ground off all the teeth and shaped the tip the way I wanted.

Has anyone else tried this? I am interested in a thin parting tool for some small pieces (such as pen work and parting off turned wooden cabachons for jewellery pieces). It would only be used on small stuff. I am very happy with my large one, but sometimes you need smaller ones and I was wondering if this would be a good idea.

Cheers

Cam

ps I wasn't specifically meaning with a keyhole saw - I was more meaning with a thin saw in general. Maybe even very short lengths of hacksaw blade?

[Cliff Rogers]

I have used power hack saw blade but it is a bit thick.
The best thing I have found so far for a thin parting too is an old knife.

Take the sharp edge off the side of it without over heating the blade & put your favourite grind on the end of it.

It is only good for small work like pens.

[CameronPotter]

Perfect.

Thanks Cliff. I will keep that in mind.

Cheers

Cam

[holmsy2000]

Gooday.

That should be fine for chisels.

We use Bohleret(?) tool steel for our skews.

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Ian () Robertson
"We do good turns every day"

where arouts do you get that tool steel from , ive been looking to buy some in melbourne somewhere but cant find where, also what do you pay for it?

thanks brett

[CameronPotter]

Tool steel ain't cheap.

I got some from a company called Bohler Udderholm a few years ago. It was 01 steel (which is a decent steel - home hardenable, but not HSS). It cost me $40 for a piece that was 50mmx3mmx40mm (if memory serves me correctly).

I have since stuck to using scavenged steel for my knife blades. I was lucky enough to get a pile (say maybe half a tonne or so) of old sawmill blades. I had a mate test them for me and he said that they had very similar properties to L6. Lovely steel to work with.

Problem is that it is 4mm thick and I was looking for something a little thinner than that and can't be bothered grinding it down!

Cam

[RETIRED]

where arouts do you get that tool steel from , ive been looking to buy some in melbourne somewhere but cant find where, also what do you pay for it?

thanks brettI got mine in Sydney many years ago and the company has since closed.

Try Blackwoods or look under engineers supplies..

[Termite]

Try here. Look down the index to H.S. Steel

http://mcjing.com.au/woodworking/index.htm

[Sprog]

The best thing I have found so far for a thin parting too is an old knife.

Take the sharp edge off the side of it without over heating the blade & put your favourite grind on the end of it.

It is only good for small work like pens.

Pick old knives up from garage sales and swap meets. Make sure you get the ones that have been forged and not the stamped out ones.
The forged knives are usually made from very good steel.

[hughie]

John,
Re angles etc, according to Richard Raffan the golden rule about angles and sharpening tools, is, there is no golden rule. So get some advice or tuition from your local guru and experiment from there. This probably not what you wanted to hear.
As for steel, Bohler Udderholm are still in business and have a large range of steels in their catalogue. Only one problem is that are now, through acquisition they are the major supplier of tool steels to Australia and have rationalized their range. Much of the fancy grades they simply don't stock and what they do stock comes a limited range of sizes generally big or thick cross sections, B. useless to the average Joe unless he owns a machine shop.
Secondly HSS steel hardening and tempering requirements are far more exacting than carbon steel ie tempering requires triple heating and quenching.
So much for the bad news, here is the good news. Go to your local steel store or Blackwoods etc and purchase 'Silver Steel'. Generally it comes in rod form about 1 metre long. It can be readily forged, hardened and tempered by any body in their workshop with simple tools ie hammer, LPG torch and a bucket of water. I have done so with my 3/8 gouge and performs well and gets a finer edge that P&N HSS gouges that I have. It will not be as durable as HSS but on green timber it will perform really well.
If you would like more details on the best method heatreating silver steel, just email me.
hughie

[Gil Jones]

Take a look through this web site; it is full of information on many different types of steel. Plus, in the "General Information" section, it tells all about heat-treating steel.
http://www.crucibleservice.com/eselector/index.html