Cheap tools, the plus side

[Iain]

I was reading a post on the merits of good tools such as Crown, Sorby etc and someone came up with an amazing piece of logic.
It was concerning those $20 sets of Chinee tools that everyone poo poo's.
It was stated that for the beginner these are an excellent choice as they blunt fairly quickly and one needs to perfect a sharpening technique, making a mess of the tools along the way.
After a few weeks or months of using these tools it was reasoned that your sharpening skills should have improved sufficiently that you can now go forth and buy 'good' tools with the knowledge that you are not about to bugger them up on the sharpening system.
Don't know if anyone would dissagree with this.
The other thing that worries me is the so called professional sharpening services, I have a set of P Dick knives which I have always sharpened myself and have done a good job. A professional sharpener got hold of them and (while I was not present) proceeded to sharpen them on a belt sander mounted upside down. Well, apart from having a crappy edge which I had to remove and do again, the mongrel put scratches and scars all up the side of my big Dick and it has lost all its aesthetic appeal. I've had these for over 20 years and this moron stuffed one up in under a minute. It's got the edge back now but it's bloody ugly.
In other words, beware the professional sharpener.

[ubeaut]

There is no substitute for quality. Most new turners will never learn to sharpen the tools correctly no matter what tools they have, unless they get some instruction from someone who really knows what they are doing. Even then most will flounder for years, http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/rolleyes.gif that is why there are so many sharpening jigs on the market.

These cheap tools in most instances will only serve to frustrate, as they literally have to be sharpened every few minutes. If you must buy cheap tools at least buy high speed steel (HS) from someone like McGing.

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As for your Dick, Iain. What the hell were you doing letting someone else play with it in the first place, especially a pro? http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/confused.gif

WARNING
A mans knife/knives are sacred.
Never let anyone mess with your knives. http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/mad.gif

[Bruce Bell]

P&N our Aussie manufacturer are currently working on making a starter set of 5 HSS wood turning tools for the beginner market. They should be ready for sale in about 6 weeks.

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[Iain]

Sounds OK, how much and where from?
I am not a turner, I try and destroy a lot of timber and I use a cheap set as described. Maybe I am trying to justify being tight. Having said that, I have learned to put a good edge on my turning tools and like Neil said, I do it often.
I also use a white whetstone sharpening system which is similar to a Tormek. They are brilliant for sharpening as my wife will testify to with the kitchen gear. She won't touch my knives as she reckons they are too sharp but I frightened her with the edge on our camping cheapies.
I'll leave the manufacturer out of this one even though I think they are a brilliant blade.

[RETIRED]

Gooday Bruce.

Well I hope that P&N get it right unlike Sorby and others that have about 3 useless tools, although they do make handy blanks. http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Ian () Robertson
"We do good turns every day"

[ubeaut]

Speaking of cheap tools. Was in Carba Tec today (Melb) they are selling Record scrapers (High Speed Steel) 1.5" (38mm) x 3/8" (10mm)with long and strong handles, for only $30 - Original price $140. http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/eek.gif They only appeared to have left & righ hand skew scrapers but they can easily be reshaped to what ever tickles your fancy. They also had Record boxed sets for sale at way, way below recommended retail (probably below wholesale). I don't recall the price on these. The record sets are one of the few that are completely useful with no throw-aways in the box.

Don't think they'll last long. I purchased a couple of scrapers and I don't even use the bloody things. http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif

Cheers - Neil http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by ubeaut (edited 11 September 2001).]

[Gordon Steele]

I have a set of 'cheap' Chinese HSS tools, about $150 for 6 from Tool Specialists, Newcastle. Then steel is as good as the much dearer English brands some of which I have purchased because the shapes were not available in the Chinese gear.

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Gordon Steele

[ubeaut]

There is nothing in particular wrong with the cheap Chinese HSS tool sets. It is the very cheap non HSS sets that the comments were about. Any HSS tool is better than a common old garden variety mild steel tool.

[Geoff Allen]

You guys certainly like to do everything the hard way.
I just draw up what I want in CAD and cut it out of an old saw blade with a laser. Doesn't work for gouges, but its great for skew, scrapers and beading tools.

[Shane Watson]

http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif We're not all X-men and have lasers for eyes Geoff http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Bruce Bell]

Yep P&N will have it right at least for those who want a top quality set at a compedive price. 19mm Roughing gouge, 12mm bowl gouge,10mm spindle gouge, 3 x 12mm parting tool and a 18mm skew should do the trick all in a nice cosy tool roll.

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[Iain]

Is there a price indication yet?, and is this in addition to the fruit juice products http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif

[fcm]

For those in Melbourne, I can personally recommend the services of Richmond Saw & Tool Sharpening. I have been using them for some time in sharpening industrial equipment as well as plane blades, saws, ...
Located in a laneway behind the pub on the corner of Swan & Church Streets Richmond (a short stroll from Carbatec).

Best wishes,
Mark

[This message has been edited by fcm (edited 21 September 2001).]

[ubeaut]

NEVER EVER GIVE YOUR TURNING TOOLS TO A SHARPENING SERVICE http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/mad.gif

Sharpening turning and carving tools is the domain of the user. Never an outside source. If you can't sharpen them you shouldn't be using them. For that matter you probably shouldn't even be allowed to own them.

The same should go for plane blades and chisels and knives. Blades for thicknessers, buzzers, saws etc. are the ideal things to send out to a sharpening service.

If you don't know how to sharpen them make it your business to find out.

Three times a year for 7 years I offered a 1 day workshop on sharpening edged tools. Out of 21 classes offered we only ran it only once. For some strange reason people didn't seem to think sharpening was important enough to learn.

We also made a 5 minute mock-up sharpening video and ran it constantly for 3 days of the Melbourne Working With Wood Show about 5 years ago with the view to making a full video if there was enough interest. Out of literally thousands surveyed only 2 people said they might be interested.

[Shane Watson]

I would even add that sending your thicknesser & buzzer blades out to be sharpened is a big no no as well. To many times I have had theses planer blades destroyed by so called expert qualified saw sharpeners. Since I have invested in a good quality sharpening system I have had top quality edges that are quality controled by myself! In the long term I have saved hundreds if not thousands. All I now send out are my saw blades.

[forbes]

What quality sharpening system do you use, and what would you recommend?:)

[Calm]

What quality sharpening system do you use, and what would you recommend?:)

The last post before yours was 22 Sept 2001- a little while ago.

My opinion on tools is
- a new turner wants to turn wood not sharpen chisels,
- they want chisels that make it easier to do the job and less sharpening
- they dont want to waste time learning to sharpen first

so i think the first thing to buy is one of these (http://www.cws.au.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107144916&product_id=1107453066)
then some decent quality chisels - 3/8 bowl gouge (across the flute) - parting tool - roughing gouge - 1 inch skew (doubles as scraper)

These will do some spindle work and most bowls, you could do pens with the above.

This means you sharpen properly, you enjoy the turning more and yep you are hooked.

If you decide you dont like turning (strange fellow) then you list the tools here on the forum and you should get at least 1/2 price back for all including the jig.

If you buy the cheap chinese carbon steel tools you have junk to start with, you dont enjoy turning, and you cant sell them or barely give them away.

Just my 20 cents worth

As for what jig - check out Jims website.

BTW welcome to the forum

Cheers

[forbes]

Thanks for the advice, and the welcome to the forum. You do a great job.

I was looking more for advice on the best tools to sharpen tools, but sincerely apologise that I did not make this clear. I am not into wood turning (yet), but am gearing up slowly to start cabinet making as a hobby, to provide some stress relief for a managerial job.

Thanks again:wink:

[eisbaer]

i use a scheppach and i know plenty of people who use the tormek. Both great systems in my opinion. Bit pricey but worth every cent. Sharp tools mean better results from your tools.

[Calm]

i use a scheppach and i know plenty of people who use the tormek. Both great systems in my opinion. Bit pricey but worth every cent. Sharp tools mean better results from your tools.

Means more enjoyment from your projects - means youre hooked:2tsup::2tsup: - mission accomplished:D:D

Cheers

[eisbaer]

sorry calm :) forgot that bit.

[NeilS]

Thanks for the advice, and the welcome to the forum. You do a great job.

I was looking more for advice on the best tools to sharpen tools, but sincerely apologise that I did not make this clear. I am not into wood turning (yet), but am gearing up slowly to start cabinet making as a hobby, to provide some stress relief for a managerial job.

Thanks again:wink:

Forbes, wrong forum for your question.

Try the Sharpening Forum (http://www.woodworkforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=127)