Incra - Hinge Crafter, Wonderfence, Miter Express Platform and/or telescoping fence

[Sir Stinkalot]

Hi Folks,

I'm looking at expanding my Incra collection for a few projects I have in mind. I'm in no real hurry so thought I would throw my wish list out there incase somebody has what I need kicking around that they may be interested in moving on. I'm in Adelaide, so limited opportunities locally and would consider postage. Indicative ballpark costs listed below but really need to discuss based on condition etc.

1. INCRA HingeCrafter. Metric or imperial version (preference for metric). Happy to discuss router bit sets to suit if available separately. (approximately $100)

535539

2. INCRA WonderFENCE. Looking to add to my existing Incra LS17SYS LS Positioner Standard System. (approximately $200)

535540

3. INCRA Miter Express Universal Mitering Platform. Perhaps a long shot, but worth putting out there. I'm not sure how it would go if it has already been set up and calibrated to your saw, but who knows perhaps you have a new one in a box you will not look at using. (approximately $180)
535541

4. Incra Telescoping Flip Fence - 18" to 31". (approximately $60)
535555
If you are looking at unloading any of these - get in touch and we can see if we can strike a deal.

Cheers.

[MikeJ]

I have an unused metric hinge crafter including drill bit and manual. $100 plus postage of $20.

Cheers
Mike

[Sir Stinkalot]

Thanks for the quick reply Mike.
I have just been having a further read up on the Hinge Crafter and whilst I detest imperial I think I will need to stick with an imperial version of the Hinge Crafter.
My LS Positioner is imperial and I also have some imperial bits that would save me having to repurchase in metric or try to convert the LS Positioner.

Cheers

[aarggh]

As I understand it the metric version practically is the same as imperial, I don't know for the jig if the minute measurement difference would matter, or as I suspect would simply fall within allowable tolerances?


Metric version:

Use the HingeCrafter for making 9.5mm, 12.7mm, 15.9mm and 19.0mm wooden hinges up to 250mm long with the included drill bit.


Imperial version:
The INCRA HingeCrafter serves as a drilling guide for solid wood hinges in 3/8" (9.52mm), 1/2" (12.70mm), 5/8" (15.88mm) & 3/4" (19.05mm) barrel sizes and up to 10" long.

[Sir Stinkalot]

I suspect that there may be a difference in the spacing between the knuckles for the imperial and metric versions. Incra say that you must use the corresponding hinge crafter to match the units of your LS positioner. You can use either with the ibox so it must have to do with the cutting of the joint gap.

Just found the metric and imperial whiteside router bit sets which answers the question when looking at the metric set.

The bullnose bit sizes are shared with the imperial HingeCrafter, but the straight bits are metric in order to accommodate the spacing on metric-based INCRA fence positioners.

[MikeJ]

The knuckles are held in place by allen screws. I would be possible to reposition them. The unit itself is the same.

[aarggh]

I'll measure mine tonight as I'm now curious how exact the dimensions and spacing are, but for all intents and purposes when you're talking woodworking, 9.52mm is the same as 9.5mm.

[Sir Stinkalot]

After looking at the Incra video about using the hinge crafter with the iBox, the difference between the imperial and metric must only be the width (and space cut between) of the knuckles. The video shows him using a 1/2" dado stack on the table saw. The LS Positioner would be moving in its set distances at 1/2" and would require a 1/2" bit for the cut. As the iBox offset is set by the dado width it just copies the dado be it imperial or metric.

In his example the 1/2" would relate to 12.7mm - the metric hinge crafter uses 12mm so I am guessing that if you cut the spaces using a 1/2" bit or dado stack it would though out the spacing of the blank fitting within the drilling guide - only a fraction, but enough for them to make two versions.

As I have an iBox I would likely use that, but I have just checked my dado stack and it too is imperial so I would be in the same boat. Looks like the imperial version would give me the most flexibility as to how it gets used.

[aarggh]

the metric hinge crafter uses 12mm .

According to the Incra website both Metric and Imperial versions it's 12.7mm. The quotes I added earlier are directly from the respective Incra web pages.

[MikeJ]

Hi aarggh

I would be interested to know the width of the knuckles and the gap between them. I have measured mine and they vary.

On mine (the biggest diameter ones) the knuckles are 18.50, 18.43 and 18.39 mm. The gaps are 19.28 and 19.43 mm.

Cheers
Mike

[Sir Stinkalot]

Both versions use the same imperial bullnose bits to create the size of the hinge knuckle part. Incra have simply converted the knuckle size from imperial into metric. The difference is the width of the area removed from the knuckle and this is dictated by the size of the straight bit or dado stack. Comparing the Whiteside router bit sets for both versions provides the answer that Incra don’t provide directly.

[aarggh]

Looking at this it just seems absurd to me, essentially the units are identical, with one rounded up or down from Imperial to Metric by 2/100ths-5/100ths of a mm, which effectively is zero. The bull nose cutters are the same for both, with the straight cutters set to the rounded up/down Metric conversion, again, effectively making zero difference in timber.

A difference of 2/100ths-5/100ths of a mm is pretty much a few degrees in ambient temperature in the workshop, highlighted more so by Mike's measurements of his jig which has a far greater variance than the imperial to metric conversion.

I know Whiteside state a difference for the straight cutters, given the tolerances we're talking I don't see any real or effective difference though, and it's not like the machined wood wouldn't fit the jig given the very wide range Mike provided.

[Sir Stinkalot]

I would tend to agree that the differences are minor and may not have any practical implications. It is interesting however that Incra have decided to produce two different versions which I am sure wouldn't be cost effective - and then there is the flow on of the likes of Whiteside having to make two bundles of router bits. I had thought that the drill bit may have been metric as well, but each version still seems to use an imperial bit with a recommended imperial brass pin. I wonder if its just marketing to appeal to everybody outside the USA who would prefer to buy just metric versions and may not consider an imperial version.

[ChrisFromOz]

I have an unused metric hinge crafter including drill bit and manual. $100 plus postage of $20.

Cheers
Mike

Hi Mike,

I'd like to buy this if available. I realise this isn't a sales thread so could you re-post this over there or let me know how you'd like to proceed. I'm in Vic 3134 if that changes the postage rate.

cheers,
Chris

[MikeJ]

Just posted on Market Place

[aarggh]

Hi aarggh

I would be interested to know the width of the knuckles and the gap between them. I have measured mine and they vary.

On mine (the biggest diameter ones) the knuckles are 18.50, 18.43 and 18.39 mm. The gaps are 19.28 and 19.43 mm.

Cheers
Mike

Ok, not wanting to flog a dead jig, but in the spirit of completeness for anyone down the track wanting to know the difference, on my imperial one the large knuckles are 18.55, 18.70, and 18.50, and the gaps are 19.60 and 19.65. So there is actually no practical difference between the metric and imperial jigs whatsoever based on Mike's metric jig and my imperial jig regardless of the cutter sizes.

[MikeJ]

There are no markings on the jig to say it is metric. I think that maybe the only difference is the one page insert in the manual to say it is metric.

[Sir Stinkalot]

I sent off an email to Incra this morning to question the differences. It was interesting to compare the measurements taken of both the imperial and metric versions of the jig as it would be hard to see why it would be practical to manufacture two different jigs for such a minor difference. I suspect that they are essentially interchangeable and I should have just picked up your metric version Mike, but it will be interesting to get to the bottom of it. I will post any response for future reference for others with the same questions.

[aarggh]

It is bewildering!

Whiteside make a specific imperial kit #600 with 3/8” Straight, 3/8” Half Round, 1/2” Straight, 1/2" Half Round, 5/8” Straight, 5/8” Half Round, 3/4" Straight, and 3/4" Half Round cutters.

They also make a metric kit #M600 with Straight bits: 10mm, 12mm, 16mm, & 19mm and Full-radius bullnose bits: 3/16", 1/4", 5/16", & 3/8" (according to woodsupplies.com.au).

My kit has no mention of metric and is pretty old, and was originally bought as imperial, but given the cutter sizes I'm wondering if my kit is metric but not labelled as such?

It'll be very curious to see the response you get from Incra!

[Sir Stinkalot]

Ok, with Incra being such a good company as they are, I received a response to my email asking the differences between the imperial and metric hinge crafter overnight.

"The 5/8" and 3/4" bushings are the same on both versions of the HingeCrafter and the difference in your measurements is just a matter of tolerances. The metric version's 10 mm bushings are nominally 9.50 mm long because 10 mm -wide cuts would be excessively loose over the 3/8" bushings (9.02 mm nominal). The 12 mm bushings are nominally 11.48 mm long and are required because 12 mm -wide cuts won't reliably fit over the 1/2" bushings (12.17 mm nominal).

So there you have it. The two larger hinge sizes are the same, however the silver drill guides / bushings are different for the two smaller hinge sizes. Unfortunate that we took measurements on the largest hinge size which should be the same for both versions!

As my main interest would be in the production of the two smaller hinge sizes, with my setup it looks like imperial is still the way to go. I suspect that you could potentially scrape by using them interchangeably, however Incra must have decided that the tolerances didn't work for them and it would avoid the headaches if they made two versions.

Hope this has been educational / useful for somebody down the track. The scary thing now is the cost of the router bits to suit the jig - it looks to be a $500-$600+ outlay (including jig) to cover all bases, which is a lot of custom hinges to be made!

[aarggh]

Ok that's really interesting. I'm curious to measure the smaller ones tonight!

Timbecon has some half round cutters, I daresay there will be plenty of Asian suppliers cheap as well:

https://www.timbecon.com.au/torquata-bull-nose-moulding-router-bit