Redefining the Aussie WorkBench

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

I'd like to invite all forum members to help me re-define the concept of the modern workbench.

Although Workbenches have traditionally had a great run on our forum their tends to be a fairly traditional take on design, materials and execution. For the traditionalists out their this thread is not going to be for you!!!

Although once seeing making a traditional workbench a right of passage; After much deliberation I just cannot justify making a hardwood benchtop outta stock I could use for better purposes.

So heres the brief:

1. Bottom section to be made outta solid stock but not necessarily using traditional joinery methods.

2. Benchtop to be made of MDF with tempored masonite top or similar alternative to hardwood top!

3. Benchdog holes are to be replaced with T-Track for sliding Benchdogs

4. Bench design must incorporate some kind of holddown

5. Benchtop must include an area for inlaid magnets & Vacuum Clamp

6. Exploration of placement & best vices to use

At the end you'll all get to see me make the Design ............. So I'll be the Guinnea Pig for anyone interested in making something the same or similar. This will be the showpiece of my new Shed:D:D:D

The most important thing to remember is that I'd like her to be a real workhorse that you can bang the odd screw nail etc etc into without having a heart attack.

Storage is not a consideration as our ultimate aim is to create the most durable; versatile and efficient worksurface possible. Please feel free to contibute I'm espically interested in design ideas outside the square. :)


Regards Lou:D:D:D:D

[echnidna]

The most practical wood bench is 45mm thick pine with a centre tool well.
Once you get used to working with a well you will find them very worthwhile.
Cheap, strong and easily affordable.

[NewLou]

Gidday :)

Heres how Woodworks presenter David Marks approached the workbench design. Dimensionally I like it with almost Spartan benchtop space he seems to get everything he needs from his Bench.

Be a Woodworks fan I watch a lot of his work and the dimensions of his Benchtop allow tasks to be attacked from either side of the Bench. Even more importantly to me is how he has gone about the base.

I think many Bench designs are overbuilt particularly base designs. But Markseys approach appears solid and allows for pleanty of legroom etc. No doubt shes weighty and solid enough to prevent racking?

What do you think?

Regards Lou:)

[echnidna]

personally I'd rather have 4 legs roughly on each corner
I like a shelf down the bottom as it stiffens the whole lot up and its storage

[Rusty]

What do I think? It's way too shiny. I should post a pic of my current "bench". And I would...if not for the pile of old hardwood on sawhorses (waiting to be de-nailed) that obscures it.

Good luck with the Brave New Bench, Lou; you're on to something...

Rusty.

[Auld Bassoon]

The most practical wood bench is 45mm thick pine with a centre tool well.
Once you get used to working with a well you will find them very worthwhile.
Cheap, strong and easily affordable.

Agree with that: my first bench I built that way. Getting somewhat decrepit now, so am thinking of making a new one, but keeping the old 'un for glue-up, finishing, etc.

That well is hugely handy.

The new one will have lots of dog holes though....

[Shedhand]

Haven't seen him here for a while but Dazzler built a ripper. If he sees this he might like to show and tell. I won't presume to give details as it's his baby. But I was mightily impressed at how solid it is.;)

[Driver]

This is a good thread, Lou. I agree with Rusty - you're on to something here.

Couple of thoughts:-

- If you followed David Marks' design, you'd have to be very accurate with the joinery of the refectory table type leg and base arrangement. If you didn't get this right, the whole thing would be a tad wobbly.

- On the other hand, the foot and leg room it provides is an attractive feature.

- So, if you modified the leg and base design so that the two end frames were inverted A frames fixed to wide feet, would that be simpler and less likely to rack and wobble?

Col

[Auld Bassoon]

Seen Wongo's masterpiece?

Something like that, but with the top made up from a mosaic of whatever you can lay your hands on - and don't forget the well!

Even, possible a lift off hardwood top (might be a bit heavy) for fine work, and an "ugly duckling" underneath for heavy work; one that can be resurrected with another layer of pine or what-have-you.

As per Driver's comments, without a stabilising lower shelf (frame) racking might be an issue.

Cheers!

[bitingmidge]

If you are trying to redefine the bench, and are happy to use MDF for the top, why not REDEFINE it instead of dicking around copying traditional styles??

For the "end legs": two sheets of 10mm MDF, with 35mm kitchen sink cutouts (free) sandwiched between to form a solid gable.

Two sheets of 10mm (or an 18) as a solid gable joining the end gables exactly half way (lengthwise).

Now you have heavy and IMPOSSIBLE to rack, and you can build shelves/cupboards at half the bench width, which will be very sensible and usable.

Why not do the top in the same sandwich style? Scrounge a heap of sink cutouts, use 10mm top and bottom, and end up with a 60mm thick SOLID MDF top?

There you go... redefined!

cheers,

P

[Wongo]

I think many Bench designs are overbuilt particularly base designs. But Markseys approach appears solid and allows for pleanty of legroom etc. No doubt shes weighty and solid enough to prevent racking?

What do you think?

Regards Lou:)

Plenty of legroom for what? Why try to be different?

[echnidna]

Here's some shots of the work benches just made at the Holmesglen TAFF. I was rather impressed with the simple joinery used. Constructed from clear Radiate Pine, with a tempered Masonite top over the solid timber sub.

These benches are very deep, so that two students can work at a bench, one on each side. The tool-well separates both work surfaces. The vices were not installed at the time these pictures were taken.

Perhaps these might be a source of some inspiration. :) (I have more pic's if anyone is interested.)

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/3225/20050821meeting00241mz.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/6213/20050821meeting00266vk.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/9562/20050821meeting00186ze.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/3278/20050821meeting00163ss.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/7650/20050821meeting00234jg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Good looking practical workbenches :) :)

[Waldo]

[QUOTE=NewLou
The most important thing to remember is that I'd like her to be a real workhorse that you can bang the odd screw nail etc etc into without having a heart attack

Regards Lou:D:D:D:D[/QUOTE]

G'day NewLou,

My opinion exactly. I've posted it many times before, it's based on my Dad's workbench and exactly what I think a bench should be - tough and durable, nothing woosy that's a show pony that you wouldn't be cared to ding. It also has to have drawers to hold things, like tools - now there's a strange idea! :eek:

And a shelf to hold bits of timber.

My bench has something like 64 3" coach bolts to hold the top down (140 x 49mm lumps of good old Aussie hardwood) to 5 pairs of redwood bearers that run the length of my 3m bench. 3 sets of legs each (of various wood - whatever I could find from various places, skip bins, torn down verandahs etc.) with 2 stretchers a piece (again Aussie hardwood)

But each to their own, it's what you want out of it that you make it to.

(Bugger, I'm told I've already posted this pic , so I can't upload it again! :confused: ) http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=25750

So here's the link to it.

[Bodgy]

[quote=echnidna]The most practical wood bench is 45mm thick pine with a centre tool well.
Once you get used to working with a well you will find them very worthwhile.
quote]

Have to agree about the tool well. I originally found mine a PITA, always full of crap and shavings etc. Once I became more practised and disciplined I now find it invaluable.

Not convinced about having it along the centre line tho. Mine is at the back. Its about 50mm deep and my next one will be closer to 100mm, if the design allows

[Lignum]

Lou:) Great topic.

This is partially what i have and partially what i want to add.

The criteria for me is - A workbench is to be used not admired. So screwing and drilling holes in the top on a daily basis will occurs.

Its NOT a storage unit for timber and off-cuts, so its to have a full bank of drawers not shelving.

The base leading to the floor will not be open, it will be covered with ply. I love covering the bottom rails to the floor with ply as it doesn't build up with dirt and rubbish under the bench which i HATE

I favor a 2.4 x 1.2 melamine covered mdf top, overhanging 150 (with kd glued and screwed under to add bulk and strength) on the sides, front and back so their is ample room to fit clamps in for easy clamping.

Im getting sick of massonite as i like the light background of white so i can write and draw over it and easily sand any glue/crud off. And their is good contrast with a pencil/scribe line on white but hard to see with a brown background. And its tough and cheap to replace when the top gets to shabby.

One 230 mm quick action vice is all i need. Not interested in tail vices.

Strategically placed holes all over for stops, jap-bench hook, lamps and drawing straight-edges for accuratly drawing up scale drawings of projects and designs (its my favorite bench add on - you can produce very accurate images of what you are trying to make very quickly)

45 x 95 kd legs and 35 x 95 kd rails housed into the legs and screwed - no need for tenons. And at least five rails at the top for extra top density.
Triangular x-bracing on the ends and back.- pines ok.

6mm ply covering the entire back and sides to the floor. bottom rails up around 200mm of the ground and covered with ply at the front to the floor.

The internal space will be divided and drawers added with heavy duty full extension runners

And lastly, but very important two lots of double fluros for very strong light.

Also i hate tool wells. they are just built in little rubbish bins and totaly unessasary. I have a tool/accessory trolly with clipboard on wheels behind me for "tools in use storage" i do have a pic, ill find it and post it:)

[Waldo]

G'day Lignum,

• "so its to have a full bank of drawers",

• "A workbench is to be used not admired. So screwing and drilling holes in the top on a daily basis will occurs"

So does my bench fit the criteria? With 3 x 500mm deep drawers with full runners 680mm deep. Bench is 800mm deep.

Legs are 100mm x 100mm.

Based on what you've replied with I wish i had taken shots of my bench before I put the top on so you see its framework - you could park a truch on top of it and it'd hold.

One reason for me not putting dog holes in was that I'd get dust , shavings etc. in my drawers all the time. So what I do is nail a bit of wood either side of the stock into the bench when I plane and rip it out when I'm done.

Agree on tools wells, room is too important to lose working area and get filled iwth rubbish. At 3m long my bench is too short, it's never enough room.

"housed into the legs and screwed - no need for tenons" - right on brother. ;)

" And lastly, but very important two lots of double fluros for very strong light." - got one double directly overhead of the bench, and a double behind me when working at my bench.

[Lignum]

Waldo, yours looks like a great work-horse. Built to make-stuff:) A showcase bench would be oh so nice for assembly and delicate work, but i find when you are getting into it stuff just ends up everywhere and a big flat solid surface preferably away from a wall if space permits is what i want. I also find 45 x 95 KD legs with bracing and ply covering to be increadably strong and heavy. It would be fantastic if everyone posted a pic of their bench, that way we could all pic some details here and there that we like and put them to good use. Lous project will be a ripper to follow. Cant wait:)

[NewLou]

Gidday:D :D :D

Looks like the good old workbench gets the passion burning a bit like sharpening;)

Man some great posts here FANTASTIC STUFF!!!!

It certainly poses some interesting questions:

Should a Bench be build round the woodworkers habbits or should the woodworker adjust his habbits to the workbench??

Racking appears to be the Bane of workbench design....................I'm wondering how much weight a workbench needs to be to avoid racking?

Should a Workbench be a jack of all trades eg: Provide a flat surface, provide storage...........Or a master of specific purposes eg: Be an extension of the woodworkers skills and a specific tool within its own right?

No doubt these answers will be governed by available space and the type of work a bench will be used for.

Regards Lou:D :D :D

[9Fingers]

This years Tools & Shops issue of Fine Woodworking had an interesting workbench made out of birch plywood with an MDF top. Looked solid and cost around $200 to make. Has anyone else seen it? Can't find any pictures online. Maybe I'll scan a page from my magazine.

[Harry72]

Check out Jan issue #119 of American Woodworker...

Torsion box top, 6 draws, vice... and a expanding roll out assembley table that fits underneath it!

[mkemila]

One option that has not been mentioned (or I missed) is to use the underside of the bench (using built in frame work) to store clamps. Based on the average length of a workbench I would think that would be a perfect place to store them and free up other areas of your shops. Just a thought

Mark

[namtrak]

I thought this was the great australian work bench.

:o :o :o

[silentC]

Should a Bench be build round the woodworkers habbits or should the woodworker adjust his habbits to the workbench??
Your bench should be built to suit your way of working, your height, and the kinds of things you make, otherwise it will always be a compromise. Just like sharpening, there is never going to be one 'ultimate' design for a workbench. There may be for you but it will be different to mine.

For example, I hate the idea of putting T-track in the top of a bench. It will collect sawdust. Small tools and scraps of wood will fall into it. It will become damaged over time and not slide properly. To remove or replace the dogs you'll have to slide them all the way to one end. If you want two dogs parallel to the vice, you'll have to fiddle around. But that's just my opinion.

Weight will not prevent racking. Weight will prevent the bench from sliding around the workshop. The way to prevent racking is solid bracing, which you can achieve a number of ways. My bench does not rack at all because the stretchers under the bench top are housed into the legs. It's the world's ugliest bench but it is solid.

My suggestion is that you make this your penultimate bench and then one day when you've been using it for a couple of years, you'll know what needs to be done to improve it.

[craigb]

Your bench should be built to suit your way of working, your height, and the kinds of things you make, otherwise it will always be a compromise. Just like sharpening, there is never going to be one 'ultimate' design for a workbench. There may be for you but it will be different to mine.

For example, I hate the idea of putting T-track in the top of a bench. It will collect sawdust. Small tools and scraps of wood will fall into it. It will become damaged over time and not slide properly. To remove or replace the dogs you'll have to slide them all the way to one end. If you want two dogs parallel to the vice, you'll have to fiddle around. But that's just my opinion.

Weight will not prevent racking. Weight will prevent the bench from sliding around the workshop. The way to prevent racking is solid bracing, which you can achieve a number of ways. My bench does not rack at all because the stretchers under the bench top are housed into the legs. It's the world's ugliest bench but it is solid.

My suggestion is that you make this your penultimate bench and then one day when you've been using it for a couple of years, you'll know what needs to be done to improve it.

Wise words from mr C. :)

Personally, I don't see what's so wrong with a traditional bench.
After all, the design has stood the test of time pretty well.

I think a tool well is a good idea too. My current bench doesn't have one but I may well include one in the next bench I make.

[Waldo]

The way to prevent racking is solid bracing, which you can achieve a number of ways. My bench does not rack at all because the stretchers under the bench top are housed into the legs. It's the world's ugliest bench but it is solid.

G'day,

To add to what SilentC has said and back him up and as I have done, the legs of my bench also have stretchers under the bench top are housed into the legs. For bracing I have two lengths of redwood 140ish x 45ish bolted to the shed frame, the bench in turn is bolted to the bits of redwood (could've used something other but they came off a verandah that was being demolished so they were nix.

[silentC]

By the way, David Marks' bench is based on a traditional style. It has a double row of dogholes adjacent to a full width end vice. I can't remember if it is twin or single screw. The problem with the single screw versions is that they rack if you are only clamping using one benchdog. The single leg style is nothing new either but there's not much point in that approach if you are going to put storage underneath.

[pianoman]

Lignum,

Any chance of a picture? I am just thinking about building a bench, yours sounds great.

[NewLou]

Gidday:D

For those interested DarrylIF initiated a fantastic thread called "The Perfect Workbench" which tops the number of Views in the General Woodwork section. This thread gives an excellent rundown on all things to do with traditional style Workbenches including racking etc etc.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?f=11&daysprune=-1&order=desc&sort=views

I've deliberately avoided words like ultimate or perfect and certainly arn't interested in an apples verses oranges debate. There have been a number of brillant traditional style posts on Workbenches:

BitingMidge - WorkBench Structural anatomy
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=15197

Zed - the bench is coming together
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=12779

And also some great examples of a marriage of old and contemporary approaches to workbench construction my favourate being Kiwibrucee's

Kiwi Workbench
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=16535

In addition Derek Cohen fronts some great discussion around workbenches in the Best of the Best here:
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=16776

and yours truely has done a lot of testing of new ideas and observation of my own work habits here:
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=19716

My hope or intention is to continue developing a marriage of all these great ideas and use the fantastic expertise of positive forum members to if were lucky...................develop something a bit different or special

Just mabe that will end up creating a design thats enjoyabe to use............. fits like a glove to my workstyle and gives me that special sense of enjoyment and satisfaction that all great tools give when in use.

Who knows it might just do the same for you to

Regards Lou:D;)

[Rusty]

Agree with Lou, this thread is turning up some ripper ideas.

I still don't have a dedicated/purpose built bench. Along one wall I have a long (about 4 or 5m, I haven't checked:o) square section steel framed bench salvaged (with permission) from the vacant factory next door. It has a melamine top and two shelves, but it's most interesting feature is the nearly full length flouro light which sits under a translucent perspex window in the top.

It's next to useless for woodwork and tends to gather the crap that has no other home. The light is kinda cool, though.

The other surface I use is a sheet of melamine covered particle board screwed to an old metal table frame. More of an assembly table, this is covered in glue, stain, poly, old sandpaper etc.

one more thing I do a lot is lay framing pine on sawhorses for gluing up panels. Gives a level reference surface (sort of) and leaves access for clamps and cauls. Mess is never much of a problem for me as I have a high crap threshold, but I find this method conducive to working clean.

Which brings me to my point!:) Since I use mostly power tools my main bench (when built) will need a few GPO's plus underbench tool storage, probably big pigeon holes. At least one vise on the front with provision for dog holes in the rail or skirt as well as the top. It should be centered in my work area, with a shelf of the same height fixed to an adjacent wall.
I'm also thinking of building a glue up frame which can sit on the bench when needed- picture a length of rail track made from timber, with packing tape on the sleepers. Perhaps even carpet strips glued on the opposite side so it can be flipped and used as a soft mat for sanding panels.

I'll keep the dodgy melamine table. Everyone needs a dirty table.

Sawhorses are invaluable IMO. Versatile and portable, they perform the most important task of funiture and cabinetry- KEEPING STUFF OFF THE GROUND.

I might pinch Lignum's idea of a trolly for hand tools, consumables and pencils etc.

Bench design for me is a two way street; it has to meet my style but it also should encourage good work habits, such as accuracy and good housekeeping. I dont think it can be viewed entirely separately from the issue of workshop layout, either.

Anyway, forgive the long post; writing this helped me to get some of these ideas sorted out. Ta.;)

Rusty.

[dazzler]

Haven't seen him here for a while but Dazzler built a ripper. If he sees this he might like to show and tell. I won't presume to give details as it's his baby. But I was mightily impressed at how solid it is.;)

Ohhhh shucks.....thanks shedhand:o

Mine is 3mm steel and will be around long after I am in the grave.

Super heavy, the steel will never rack or move and I can replace the top whenever I like.

I am planning on doing a new top for it that is a little flasher.....after I grab some new ideas from this thread.;)

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=22029&highlight=dazzler+bench

[Greg Q]

My bench is a patched together blend of traditional joinery base with a chipboard shelf unit as its top. Two full span drawers and a vice bay-the drawers end up collecting all manner of junk, cannot be accessed when a long board is in the vise.

One good aspect is the very light grey melamine top which repels most of the stuff that I manage to spill on it. Dog holes for Veritas bench hardware, but best of all: they also fit the plastic dogs that come with Workmates-cheap but usable stops that are plane-friendly.

My next bench will have (I think) two solid mdf cabinets with two-way drawers, fitted in a traditional base, and a solid timber top 100mm or so above the drawers. I will have a tail vise, simply because I bought one years ago:o

The temptation is to have a holding device at every corner, and power points, and an air manifold, and and....

[Lignum]

I might pinch Lignum's idea of a trolly for hand tools, consumables and pencils etc.

Rusty.

Rusty:) this is my preference to a Tool-well. It has everything i need for all projects. Srews, brads, drill bits, screwdriver bits, pens/pencils, all chemicals ie; turps, metho, wd40, Windex, glues, stains, putties, scotch brite, masking tapes. Also the raised clipboard at eye level with calculator i find a must. Brush and 600mm rule at the front. Three holes at the side for cordless drills, full-with magnetic strip at the back for various scrapers, rules etc. Paper-towel holder, extension cord, and tool box for all those tools you use once in a blue moon but seem to need all the time. Its simple, not over cluttered with plenty of space for planes, chisels, hammers etc when you are working and is on castors and follows me where ever i go. Its my right hand man. I like a clean uncluttered main bench and this makes it possible for me to achieve :)

[Lignum]

This pic is my Clamp-up bench. I couldn't do with out it. It will Handel comfortably, tops of 2.400 x 1000 right down to small frames and because the spacing blocks were fitted square everything thats clamped tends to come out square even if you don't check it. Best part is when something is glued up you just take it out and lean it up gone a wall and keep clamping. And when not clamping the ply behind sits on top for another utility bench :)

[Auld Bassoon]

Hi Lignum,

When I have some more space, then I'll definately be making a clamp up bench rather like yours - and likely a tool 'butler' as well.

In the meantime I sometimes place a 900 x 600 sheet of 18mm MDF on top of the router table (after dismounting the fence), and use that for lay-up/clamping work. Occasionally the 1800 x 600 deck table gets pressed into service as well :eek:

Cheers!

[Lignum]

Steve:) A good idea if your pressed for space, is to make a smaller version (1.8 x .600) and dont put legs onto it. Just lean or hang on the wall and when you need it just lay it straight on your workbench. Its something once you have used it you wonder how you ever went with out it:)

[NewLou]

Great stuff fellas:D:D:D

I love your 'righthand man Lignum' and really do think gregoryq is onto to something:

"The temptation is to have a holding device at every corner, and power points, and an air manifold, and and...."

and i say why not???........... but lets work out what we really need and what we don't??? Perhaps not holding points at every end BUT 1-2 solid holding points and a 'system' that provides all round worksurface holding capability??

Which brings me to my next question. What tools are we always reaching out for at the Workbench????

For me its:

1. Marking & measuring (LArge/medium/small straightedges/rulers n the like)
2. Chisels
3. Hammers (Heavy/Medium/Light)
3. Drill/Driver
4. Router
5. VArious Fastners

My point being that if we were to go with a base Similar to Markseys then a small storage utility area could be incorporated into the design to allow for storage of the essentials often used at the workBench!!!

.................One of Lignums righthand man's could be used for the rest?????

Regards Lou:D:D:D

[Rusty]

... my Clamp-up bench. I couldn't do with out it...Best part is when something is glued up you just take it out and lean it up gone a wall and keep clamping. And when not clamping the ply behind sits on top for another utility bench

That truly rocks. I use a mix of pipe clamps and Bessey K-bodies, though (...remember the great Lee Valley clamp buy of ought five?:D) so If I made a frame like that I spose the spacers would have to alternate in width or something. I need to buy a few lengths of pine tomorrow, might just chuck a couple of extra sticks in the wagon.:)

The tool butler is insane (in the good sense). Mine would also have to include bog, hardener, sanding disks and my drinking water bottle. And lots of pencils, which seem to be "single use only" in my workshop.

I delivered a hall table to a mate tonight who gave me his old temporary front door (insurance job). It's solid core and way big. Hello, new benchtop!:cool::D

Later,
Rusty.

[NewLou]

Gidday:D

Heres some interesting accessories that I think would be worthwhile intergrating into a modern style of workbench:

Vacuum Clamps
http://www.vac-clamp.com/

Kreg LArge Bench Clamp
http://www.kregtool.com/products/pht/product.php?PRODUCT_ID=68

T-Track
http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au/category4_1.htm


Regards Lou:D :D :D

[Greg Q]

You can get similar sized hold down clamps (like half a pair of vise grips)
for drill presses. eBay price was 19.00 shipped for my last one. They have a 12mm stud, so 12mm nut plates would have to be installed.

I have that vacuum clamp-it works so well that I have a similar fence for my slider on the to-do list. My only complaint is the constant hiss from the air needed to blow the venturi.

You also mentioned the pattern maker's vise. The originals were Emmert and are prized things. I read a review of the Chinese clone that said they made nice boat anchors.

I am making a set of air clamps for my machines, I'll do a post on the process. I am 6 weeks or so away from getting to it. I plan on being able to use them as hold-downs on my bench.

Greg

[Lignum]

I am making a set of air clamps for my machines, I'll do a post on the process. I am 6 weeks or so away from getting to it. I plan on being able to use them as hold-downs on my bench.

Greg

Greg:) What kind are you doing? Are they top mounted pneumatic or table inserted vacuum. Iv always had it in my mind (when i get a big saw with sliding table) how id love a row of six spring loaded vacuum nipples along the sliding table, and when boards are being ripped just hit the toggle suck the board down and perfect straight accuracy would be a sinch:)

[Greg Q]

Hi Lignum...

There is a guru on the Felder Owner's Group who made the originals, and they are commercially available, but way too exxy at $800.00/pr. I am making mine from eBay parts for approx $40.00 each.

The other thing I want to make is a vacuum rip fence for the slider for thin pieces of stock. Since the stock gets fixed to the fence, this is possible. I am using an incra fence attached to my outrigger for this now.

Here's a pic:

[Lignum]

Hi Lignum...

There is a guru on the Felder Owner's Group who made the originals, and they are commercially available, but way too exxy at $800.00/pr. I am making mine from eBay parts for approx $40.00 each.

The other thing I want to make is a vacuum rip fence for the slider for thin pieces of stock. Since the stock gets fixed to the fence, this is possible. I am using an incra fence attached to my outrigger for this now.

Here's a pic:

Great idea, especialy using cheaper parts as $800 is alot of cash. The vacuum rip fence sounds the go. I can see it in my mind clearly how i would do it, but do you have a pic of your set up?

Vacuum power is one of the great workshop tools thats sadly over looked my the majority as they think its to hard/expensive. A household vaccuum, a piece of MDF and a round rebate with rubber door sealer will cost three or four dollars and twenty minutes of mucking around and even the weekend hobbiest can have a basic hold down:)

[Greg Q]

The funny thing is that they are the same parts, just supplying my own late evening labour. Making jigs and workshop aids is one of my favourite things, so it's not even like work.

I have a few PDF files from the Felder group that show member made devices-please send me a pm with your email address if you'd like copies.

Greg

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

Well my CAD skills arn't fantastic but I'm getting to the stage where I can slap together a reasonable concept drawing.

Heres my initial concept drawing for a Base (Pic1). Perhaps we can get to joinery after an initial design concept is established. I think I can dimension it up once we finalise a design.

Well I've been on a roll and added a base with tusk tenions(Pic2) and through wedged Tenons (Pic3)

Does antone think a rail is needed Uptop?

.............All design suggestions dimensioning ideas really appreciated.

Regards Lou:D:D:D

[Clinton1]

Here's my 2c worth Lou, not a new idea, been brought up before, but anyhow...

My first benchs are "mostly" built. Got 1 finished and had to move, so its twin is in pieces waiting my next visit home for assembly.
25mm square box section steel and 30mm box section steel. I used a wall thickness in 30mm so that the inner dimensions are about 0.6mm larger than the 25mm outer dimensions.
Top 'stretcher' is 30mm box, welded to legs, legs 30mm. 25mm pieces form "elbows" so rails slip over them. Basically 3 leg assemblys, ends and middle of bench top. 4 rails in total, 2 each side front and back (between each leg assembly), bolted on for security.

Benchtop is 2 sheets of 25mm thick 6 foot x 3 foot MDF sheets. I got a heap as "seconds" (they were overweight for spec) at $9 each. Sheets are glued together (one on top of the other) and faced with tempered masonite, bottom side painted to seal it. Edge banded with "Tassie oak". Top joined to rails via self drilling screw (recessed into MDF and bogged over).

Its a POS from the traditional perspective, but:
its cheap, the top is heavy and absorbs hits when bashing stuff (which I try to stay away from doing), masonite is sacrificial and replaceable. I can put clamps off the steel rails, its big, its flat, its stable. Did I mention it is cheap?

Couldn't be fussed with rails and dogs, I'll just screw down battens as needed.

The plan is to have one as a work bench, and one as a glue up table (this one on castors). If you think about adding shelves and drawers its just a matter of another leg frame or box section uprights.

I was all set for a traditional benchtop, but I'll leave that for when I have spare cash. This lets me get on with the job and I'll put the money I save on the home loan.
They will be able to be broken down if/when I move house, so that was a consideration. I try to think "modular", same for shed power and stuff like lighting.

If it racks I'll weld in a cross brace, if it moves I'll bolt it to the slab or something. The vise is on the go, basically waiting for me to weld in a mount frame.

Thats my (bloody ugly) Alternative Workbench.
Bloody Ugly, but she is practical and works. Fancy is for later, and affordable is for now.

[Just George]

To cut a long story short, make what suits you with the resources you have at the time - add to it later when your circumstances change...

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

Well I did some mucking around while I was on a roll and came up with the first prototype. Like many others here I'm not into tool wells....................But also acknowledge the convienence of having somewhere to place tools at arms length.

I came up with the idea of having a small shelf underneath the main Bench top. I reckon It'd be just as Handy without the hassles and problems generally associated with Wells. (eg: Dust Collection)

Also some kind of storage underneath appears to be really popular. I reckon the shelving idea is a great compramise. Pleantly a leg space n room underneath but also that bit of desired real-estate to place routers/ROS chisels/drill drivers etc etc

What do you guys think.......................all suggestions welcome

Regards Lou:D :D :D

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

Well I've finally finished the Mk1 which is a progression of the prototype in the previous post. I reckon shes really starting to come along................& my CAD skills are starting to really take off!

Any suggestions in particular on Dimensioning really appreciated. I'm wondering what the Standard length/width of a modern Bench is?

I guess ideally what you want from a Bench that will be in a shed like mine is the ability to attack workpieces/stock from any side of the Bench

..........................Any thoughts appreciated

Regards Lou:D:D:D

[Chris Parks]

I reckon that your design will move on the subframe. It needs triangulation to prevent the top rocking once you begin to get violent (who me?). A steel subframe is the way to go with legs at each corner. Do that and actually make a box with a cavity as the bench top. I know this sounds crazy but now we have the strong subframe you can fill the top (box) with sand as a ballast, drop the top on and it will be so bloody heavy it won't go anywhere. Just make sure it is in the right place as it you won't be able to move it!! I hate benches that move.

[Lignum]

I think Mini is onto something Lou. The first prototype looks rock solid and would go no where but valuable space is lost. The second prototype has good space but appears flimsy. Im personaly againsed steel legs for the main workshop bench, but for secondry benches around the shop they are great. Keep it up Lou youl end up with a terrific bench. Oh, i reckon your CAD skills are pretty impressive for someone just new to it:)

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

Wow I didn't realise CAD was so addictive and Fun:eek:

Antwayz I've bulked up the design and added a few new accessories. I'm sure she would'nt rack or slide around. I think I will need to be mindful of using appropriate joinery though.

Thoughts comments suggestions muchly appreciated....................

Regards Lou:D:D:D

[Shedhand]

Looking good Lou
If it was mine I'd attach a 6 or 8 gang Powerboard under the shelf on the crossmember. Keep all the power cords in one place and just run a small extension cord to it. One thing that bugs me in my shop is that if I've got a multi power tool project on the go I'm always tripping over damn cords.
I agree with some of the others too. I think, despites its bulk it would rack under heavy use.:o

[Greg Q]

I think that it would have an awful lot of stress where the vertical members join to the feet. Any planing is going to stress the bench, and with the trestle construction, there is a reduced ability to counter it.

It looks like work performed along the short dimension of the bench might be worse still for stressing the joint.

It occurs to me that the traditional bench echoes the structural framing methods of the day-heavy members joined with mortise and tenon. We don't build houses that way anymore, maybe a more modern approach using shear panels for the major components might be a worthwhile approach.

[Clinton1]

do you think some forum members will ever see the light and get over their curious little obsession:confused:

No.


its like they think they belong to some elite club or something.

Jeeze mate, people do what they enjoy because they enjoy it. Anything else is reading too much into it.


the greater the amount of hand work involved the lesser quality the piece is visualy

Thats part of the challenge. The 'poor quality' is not about the tools used, but in the skill the user has with them. I could make poor quality stuff with power tools as well if I had little skill in them.
Its what floats my boat, sorry to say I didn't consider how it would make you feel. PM me your address - I'll send you a card. ;)

[Chris Parks]

I agree with some of the others too. I think, despites its bulk it would rack under heavy use.:o

A centre pedestal design will never survive IMO. I would think that a really heavy, bulky design on this type of subframe would in fact make it worse due to its weight being pushed around by working on it. Why did you pick this type of leg design? How about making a design that the top could be changed on depending on the job? Got some marking out and drawing to do full scale? use a white melamine top. Got gluing and assembly work to do, drop in a hardboard "cover" leaving the melamine untouched. Planing and joinery would require dog holes or clamping so take off that top and drop one on that is equipped with vices etc. Multi purpose and bench tops standing on their side don't take up a lot of room.

[NewLou]

Why did you pick this type of leg design?

Gidday Mini.............Interesting question:rolleyes:

The base is based on the Design of Master Woodworker David Mark's WoRkBench (See 1st page at the start of this thread for Pic) He hosts a Great Woodworking show on Pay called Woodworks.

The basis of the design is tried; tested and proven. BUT I too have the same concerns in regards to racking at this stage espically If I decide not to use the Benchtop as a stressed member of the base design.

This is a great help so I'll work on a fix & post once I get the time to do some more CAD....................

This is getting exciting Fellas Thx to all who have been making relevant n postive contrabutions:)

Regards Lou:D:D:D

[NewLou]

It occurs to me that the traditional bench echoes the structural framing methods of the day-heavy members joined with mortise and tenon. We don't build houses that way anymore, maybe a more modern approach using shear panels for the major components might be a worthwhile approach.

I think this is a really important Greg. But for me I don't think i want to go so far as using panel materials. However I have done a lot of work with MDF & the like & Laminating MDF on what would be considered Long grain to long Grain makes a super strong piece of Stock. (Structurally)

It may well be something worth while exploring.???

Imagine your Bench Stock made from Sheet MDF Laminations Finished of with some Type of super Tough Liminated Veneer (For example some of the stuff made from laminex is super tough specifically design for Lab & Industorial Benchtops)

I wonder if it would end up more cost effective???

What I'm really interested in though is the use of sheet materials strategically placed to reinforce the present Base design. Mmmmmmmm good food for thought!!

Now where are the engineers round here??? .......................;)


Regards Lou:D:D:D

[Greg Q]

Hey New Lou...

I wonder about a torsion box for the top...I know they have been done, and are very stable. MDF laminations too, but that just gives extra mass and stability without adding much strength or stiffness. (I think).

My bias is for a laminated solid wood top, but that's because I want dog holes, and like the look of a timber top.

Now, to the base: The number one issue here is stiffness. And beam strength. And a fanatical devotion to the pope.:o

The shelf that you have in your cad rendering looks good, but they tend to be a disaster in my shop. Any utility is outweighed by the tonnage of crap that ends up there. In it's place, you would be free to construct a thin-skinned shear panel as a backbone for the bench.

I think that a 6mm MDF skin on both sides of a panel framed by the horizontal members already in the design. Done properly, this would be seriously stiff, and provide more than ample resistance to racking.

Same goes for legs: A shear panel 75-100mm thick would be pretty tough to match with frame and tenon. The entire bench could be constructed with construction pine (although stock that was accurately thicknessed and straight). With skins well glued, it would be tough to beat.

Greg

[Greg Q]

Here's another idea to add to the file, New Lou:

I was looking at the dovetail jigs on eBay today, pondering their use, and it strikes me that a cheap one of those would make a neat vise for hand-cutting dovetails. Strip out the fingers, just use the cam action clamp to hold the tail board for layout and sawing. After chiseling out the waste, the board could be returned to the vise. Next, the pin board can be clamped horizontally for transferring the tail layout.

Whadya think?

Greg

[Driver]

Greg

That looks like a very good idea. :cool: Now I can see a use for that POS dovetail jig that's gathering dust under a bunch of tools.

I can't give you a greenie just now but I owe you one. :)

Col

[Clinton1]

Lou, you seem to be going toward a traditional design. From your opening post I thought you were looking to:

re-define the concept of the modern workbench. For the traditionalists out their this thread is not going to be for you!!!

Mate, modern to me means that you might consider the use of modern materials? Want that trestle leg design - a steel leg might be the go, don't want to see steel, clad it.

Mini's idea of a "multi top" could be worth a second thought as well.
If the base benchtop has a centre well, then a "drop over" top would be easily to incorporate, and easily 'fixed' in position. Even have a melamine/masonite sheet that you can flip over. One side glue up, the other side for working. Or throw a few holes in the permanent top and have dowel locating pegs to hold the other tops down.

Why not start the 'design' process by listing the things that are important.
Height - is the height for working the same height for other uses? i.e. feed table for the jointer/thicknesser (a replaceable top might help out here if the height difference is not too great)
Portability - does it breakdown for when you move? will you want a 'kick down lever' so you can lift it to slide in a castor frame?
Drop in insert for a router?

Maybe listing what you want to do will help set some parameters?

Sorry if I seem to be criticising, think you are doing a fine thing - just my lack of social graces showing. :rolleyes:

[NewLou]

Lou, you seem to be going toward a traditional design. From your opening post I thought you were looking to:

Yup good point Clinton I guess what I had in mind was not so much a great step away from traditional workbenches but rather alternatives to:

1.Traditional Bench Dog designs
2. Intergration of modern Bench accessories eg: Vacuum Clamps, Versatile Holddowns
3. Re design of what I consider Overbuilt base's
4. Showcase the strength of Old + Modern Jounery eg: Intergration of Mortise & Tenons with Pocket Hole Jounery and Epoxy REsigns

etc etc etc

Certainly though I'm open to all relevant suggestions BUT don't want to fall into the Trap of completely ignoring the conventional wisdom. The comments at the beginning of the thread were more to avoid a Which camp is best argument!! ;)

Sorry if I seem to be criticising, think you are doing a fine thing - just my lack of social graces showing. :rolleyes:

Constructive comments in the theme of the thread will never be taken that way by me m8...................always enjoy your comments/n contrabutions.....................adding a postive tone throughout threads :p



Regards Lou:D:D:D

[Chris Parks]

How about instead of a conventional screw vice we have one operated by either air or vacuum? Hold the piece with both hands and hit a foot control. Ther again what is the problem with a conventional bench? It has stood the test of time and still does.

[Lignum]

How about instead of a conventional screw vice we have one operated by either air or vacuum? Hold the piece with both hands and hit a foot control. Ther again what is the problem with a conventional bench? It has stood the test of time and still does.


Mini:) now were cooking. Thats been in my mind for a number of years now and it would be a sensational idea if followed through. You would still need at least one traditional vice to use with dogs, but one complete side and end of your bench with vacuum nipples would be just the ultimate. Great suggestion:)

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

Well heres a few ideas that I think will put the issue of Racking well and truely to rest. Through wedged & Tusk Tenons reinforced with pocket hole joinery & West System Epoxy for the Glue up!

It won't go anywhere BUT on the slight chance that it does I'll just Dyna Bolt it to the Floor.

Further comments & suggestions appreciated

Regards Lou:D:D:D

[Greg Q]

Greg

That looks like a very good idea. :cool: Now I can see a use for that POS dovetail jig that's gathering dust under a bunch of tools.

I can't give you a greenie just now but I owe you one. :)

Col

Merci, mon frere.;)

Can you please advise later if it works? I think I'll copy the basic design, but 600 or so wide for doing carcass work.

Gregoire

[Andy Mac]

Hi New Lou,
Always good to see you at work stretching the accepted boundaries!:D I think there is certainly room to add contemporary touches like tracks and sliding dogs, vacuum hold downs, even hydraulic clamps, but I having a bit of trouble accepting the logic of your trestle leg setup. Make a great 'table' , but workbench (said with maximum grunty bass;) ), I don't know. If your were planing, or routing mortices maybe OK, but if you go hand chopping mortices anywhere along the front apron, I reckon the bench will give too much. Whenever I do such tasks, even with a 100x35mm apron edge-on, I move the mortice directly over a leg. Without reaching over to the centre of the bench, I can't see you doing that. Call me a dyed-in-the-wool traditionalist, but I think certain aspects of a workbench have evolved for a reason, and something inside me says 4 legs might be one of them!!:o
The well or no well debate is a purely personal thing, and unconvinced by either argument my bench has 1/3 of the top without a well and remainder with one! Looking at the shelf underneath your design, could that perhaps roll out a bit like a drawer? Alternatively, I've seen some of the trad European benches with a sort of tilting hopper or box under there, for tool storage. Any merit?
There are some interesting design ideas in FWW's The Small Workshop, including one without standard vices, but using many of those sash cramps threaded onto galv pipe. They pass through the bench, and drop into wells under lifting top etc. even one vertical, as a hold down. Seemed pretty versatile I thought.

BTW your CAD skills are improving rapidly!:D

Cheers,

[NewLou]

Gidday:D:D:D

Yup some great food for thought & I guess time to come outta the closet in regards to the basis of My lean towards a trestle base design which is indeed the most contraversal component of the Mk1.

I Love reading about looking at n drooling over all types of Bench Design but have often pondered how much weight an individual can get behind a Hand Plane to cause racking or sliding.

I suspect with a modern approach using the latest types of joinery methods, engerneering nouce n glues we might all be suprised about how Strong even Minimalist approaches to a Bench Base could be.

Thus my journey n conclusion (albeit a contraversal one) is that a super heavy grunty type base with four legs n mass strechers is just overkill and unnecessarily overbuilt.

My opionion is that a trestle design offers the greatest compramise allowing for bulk without overdoing it.

..................For example just imagine through wedged/Tusk tenon Joinery reinforced with long pocket hole screws dowel pined and finished off With west system epoxy!................it aint gonna rack!

Regardless of how much Shop stress is placed on it!

The Trestle table sole's actually provide more surface contact with the Floor (More so than 4 Legs) & it provides the feature of pleanty of leg space to move round n over the Bench from any side! (A feature that suits my workhabits)

I'm not really interested in using my Bench for storage. I'll develop some kind a cabinate and one of Lignums Right hand mans for that (But understand that when floor space is a premium this may have to happen).

Which starts to lead us to some Joinery considerations. Starting with the base what Joinery should go where n why?

Regards Lou:D:D:D

[Greg Q]

Greetings New Lou.

I wish you luck, and I shall be the first to eat my words if you find the trestle design everything that you hope it'll be. The point about chopping over a leg is a very valid one-I say this from personal experience.

The flat foot that you have drawn isn't the best either for the typical shed floor. Most such feet have a relieved bottom so that distinct pads are formed at each end.

One other thing about joinery: The bench will take lots of abuse, and vibration, pounding, racking. Temperature/humidity swings. Maybe a mechanical joint might be best. You mentioned wedged tenons. Simpler might be a large bolt from the leg into the end grain of the stretchers for 6" or so. An open mortise to house a washer and nut, like a bed frame construction. (the workbench in more ways than one:) )

Anyway...you are young yet, and this next bench need not be your last.

Cheers

Greg

[Chris Parks]

The flat foot that you have drawn isn't the best either for the typical shed floor. Most such feet have a relieved bottom so that distinct pads are formed at each end. Greg

And for good reason. The smaller pads exert more load and thus more likely not to move. A larger surface will have lighter loadings and thus slide. You can push a larger surface on a floor easier than a smaller surface weighing the same.
Can we have a dimensioned drawing please? I tend to go along with the majority and declare my doubts on the trestle frame, the joints will eventually get loosened by work and shrinkage. If you want clear space underneath the bench at floor level, a better design would be four legs set in 1/3 of the bench depth and the same dimension from the ends. So if the legs were 450mm in, measured from the front and rear they would be 450 in from the ends also. This would give a good clear floor where the user stands. This would be far better than a trestle IMHO. If you are worried about the bench moving on the floor stick some big screws through the legs into the floor, some decent coach screws will sort it out. One of my benches has 100x100 hardwood legs on a timber floor and it never moves. If you wanted more surface area on the floor attach some larger pads to the legs. Having said all that the only way to prove us all wrong is to build it and see what happens. I have no doubt it will initially be adequate but time and work will be its downfall.

[TassieKiwi]

Errr - the term 're-inventing the wheel' springs to mind here. Those old craftsmen knew their stuff, and their bench design. Certainly the 'western' craftsmen seemed to all evolve a similar design, whatever region they were from. No internet then either.

One idea that I have considered to both allow fine tuning of height and differential floor levels, knowing the average tolerance of the average concrete floor, is to have a 16mm bolt threaded through each end of the bottom foot, protruding throught the base to a point. My Linn speaker bases use something similar. These would engage with the concrete floor and never move sideways (esp. with 250kg of hardwood on them) (but would make a wee hole) and if say 30 mm of the bolt is left above the top of the stretcher , level and height are adjustable.

Purists could use wooden screws i suppose.

[Driver]

Merci, mon frere.;)

Can you please advise later if it works? I think I'll copy the basic design, but 600 or so wide for doing carcass work.

Gregoire

Greg - Good Ovening!

It might be a little while before I get round to doing this but I'll certainly keep you posted as and when progress is made.

Conducteur

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

...............I think even Einstein had his fair share of constructive doubt.:eek::eek::eek: Just to re-assure that this type of trestle design is effective check out the Pics.:)

I might however incorporate a 3rd Leg into the design for a dowell holepeg board to help the front vice support Large panels??..............MMMMmmmmm back to the drawing board??:D

Does anyone think that incorporating pocket hole joinery into a intergral mortice and tenon would cause any unforseen problems??? (See Pics)

Regards Lou:D:D:D

[dazzler]

Hi all,

Another point of view;

Seems like the tail is wagging the dog a little here.:)

We need a solid base that wont bend, wobble, rack or split. Timber is a rather poor choice given that it is either

a. Living:D
b. decaying:p

and is always changing, slowly maybe, but its composition is always slowly changing. Expands in the heat, contracts in the cold. Loosens and tightens, squeeks and squaks, racks and binds.:o

Mild steel, our new age friend:) , can answer all these problems. Steel just is, keep rust away and he will last forever.

Unless the base is to be a talking piece I feel a strong steel base is the way to go. Very easy to order, 4 legs @ 850, 4 rails at ### and 4 end rails at ###, even if you get the local welding shop to weld it up if you are not that way inclined would still work out good value.

Darkside the top and darkside the shelves and cabinet but stick with strength for the base.

cheers

dazzler:)

[greenie512]

This months American Woodworker mag does a Torsion-Box Workbench & Expandable Assembly Table with two nesting benches with plenty of storage open to make a huge work area.

Not exactly traditional but a different solution?

[pianoman]

Unless the base is to be a talking piece I feel a strong steel base is the way to go. Very easy to order, 4 legs @ 850, 4 rails at ### and 4 end rails at ###, even if you get the local welding shop to weld it up if you are not that way inclined would still work out good value.

Darkside the top and darkside the shelves and cabinet but stick with strength for the base.

Interesting thought dazzler.

Michael Connor who is an Aussie workbench maker has taken a very similar view it would seem.
http://www.michealconnorwoodwork.com.au/workshop.html

Before howls of "But where are the vices" start if you look on the right hand side and the back RHS you can just see them. However it must be noted that the stuff he makes to sell is much more traditional (and beautiful). IMHO alot of this stuff about which bench is best revolves around asthetics despite, protestations to the contrary. There is nothing wrong with this, why not have something beautiful in your workshop, maybe it is just that it seems hard to admit that you prefer a tool of a certain type because it is more beautiful than a tool of similar funtionality that is ugly or plain.

[silentC]

I'm not convinced that a steel base is the way to go. What you need in a base is mass to absorb vibration and weight to stop it sliding around. I don't like the idea of bolting benches down to the floor either - you should be able to move them around to where you want them. So again it comes down to how you work. Some people get by fine with a couple of trestles and an old door.

[dazzler]

I'm not convinced that a steel base is the way to go. What you need in a base is mass to absorb vibration and weight to stop it sliding around. I don't like the idea of bolting benches down to the floor either - you should be able to move them around to where you want them. So again it comes down to how you work. Some people get by fine with a couple of trestles and an old door.

Hi Silent,

When shedhand was over I was showing mine off and said

"shes pretty heavy" and went to lift one end. Couldnt even get it to move at all.:o Its out of 3mm steel for the legs so if its steel its gotta be nice and thick.:D

cheers

dazzler

[silentC]

Fair enough. If you used 3mm and largish sections, you'd probably get enough weight in it. OK, I retract my objection. If I've got any steel left over from building the house, I'll make a bench out of it ;)

[Shedhand]

Hi Silent,

When shedhand was over I was showing mine off and said

"shes pretty heavy" and went to lift one end. Couldnt even get it to move at all.:o Its out of 3mm steel for the legs so if its steel its gotta be nice and thick.:D

cheers

dazzlerI organised the remedial massage...:D:D:D

[Jim Grant]

This is a fascinating thread. I really made a mistake when I built my benches as I used 50mm angle iron as the frames and bolted on recycled Vic Ash floor joists with a sacrificial plywood sheet as tops. I built them to fit into a corner of the garage and they are extremely strong and never move. BUT! how can I fit a vice to them as the steel frame prevents the vice from being bolted to the underside? Do I need to start again?

[bsrlee]

Most vises can be fitted a fair bit below the table top Jim. Just measure up the total thickness of the table top including the angle iron & look for a good big vise like a Dawn that comes as close as possible to the thickness.

Just glue/screw a block of wood inside & fitted to the angle iron to give you something to screw the coach screws into to hold the vise to the bench. If the fixed top jaw of the vise doesn't come up to the table top, just make a false bench front with the fixed jaw let into it & fit an extended wood jaw liner to the moving jaw.

That is a good bit easier than hacksawing a notch in the angle iron, & there is a good chance that the vice will be within an inch(25mmm) of the top level when you bolt it in place.

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

For me using steel in the design is not something I'm into but as always is just my personal preference. I'm sure appropriate use of steel could be utilised effectively into a Bench design...................just not my cuppa tea!

Thought I'd post the latest developments in my design and start doing some rough dimensioning. Before someone starts on the hight of my Bench (Which would be considered out of the powerzone for handtools) the hight is designed to be level with my present work Bench which is fixed into one of the corners of my Workshop.

If I need to I'll simply make some kind of step I can use to stand on if needing more grunt behind a Handplane. I,ll conceed the design is unusual but offers a great deal of versatility and really suits my work Habits.

I've also done a quick color version in Cherry :D but I'll try and do one as close to real world as I can in the Final draft.

All comments suggestions new Ideas really appreciated.

REgards Lou:D:D:D

[Waldo]

G'day NewLou,

Strueth mate! You must've done a Cad Drawing 101 class, those pics look great. :cool:

I know everyone has been adding their input, but a question. Will 1800 be enough length in your bench and 600 deep? You can never have too much room, for me that'd be on the tiny side.

[NewLou]

Thx Waldo:)

any suggestions ..................... what would be an ideal length? I'll go and take a pic of my fixed bench and measure some dimensions. I'd be keen to hear what members think?

REgards Lou:D

[Waldo]

G'day NewLou,

My bench for you may be too long at just over 3m, but I think a bench would need to be 800mm deep (which mine is), any less and I'd think you'd soon find you'd be fighting for room to work on with all the rest of the clobber i.e. tools and that - even though you have a tool shelf below.

Maybe look at 2400 being the length of your bench - standard size of the timber you'd be buying to make it.

[silentC]

I prefer a smaller bench so that I can get at whatever it is that I'm working on from all sides. Are you ever likely to make anything taller or wider than 1800? Shaker benches are huge by comparison but that's because of the way they worked and they often had more than one person working on the bench at a time.

[NewLou]

Hey:)

Heres a PIC of my workarea and Poorman Bench.................Believe it or not I have been doing a lot of planning researching reading asking about building my Bench..........& in particular taking note of a lot of my workhabits.

Most contemporary Benches appear to be around the 27 1/4 inch or 70-80 cm mark in width. I've been using a pencil each time I work on the poorman to mark out the space I use & believe it or not over the last 6 months its been landing in the 40-50cm range..................

So I reckon about 60cm in width is about spot on for me & will help discourage me to leave tools all over the top. My bench area measures a tad over 3meters. I want to have my workbench in an island configeration parallel to my fixed bench which will help with all manner of large stock & sheet sizes.

My compound mitre saw is also set up at around about the same height so I'll design my workstations within the Shop around this. Not sure if I need any more length cause of the real estate I already have with my fixed bench??

REgards Lou:D:D:D

[Waldo]

G'day NewLou,

I'd forgoten your earlier topics of your shed and now remember you've got tonnes of bench space along the walls. I reckon you'll be spot on with your bench design mate.

[Schtoo]

Waldo, I am the opposite. I think a bigger bench is a magnet for crap.

Mine at 1800 x 900 is just big enough to get work done, and big enough to attract way too much clutter and junk.

I have part solved that bad habit with a tool trolley. Just a thing with casters that I put tools in/on. Seems to keep my bench much clearer.

Next bench (as this one is not that great) will be slightly longer, not much wider but a sight heavier than it already is. I have moved it around the floor with vigorous planing, but that's prolly more the floor than the bench weight. ;)

[Waldo]

G'day Schtoo,

My projects normally have about 10 different bits in various stages of assembly and a few tools required, otherwise most tools are stored in the 3 drawers below.

But yes, I agree and would have to say that what ever size work area you work on it does gather crud. I used to put things like squares, knives, rulers etc. away once used, but now I leave a few things on the bench that I'm using for the thing that I'm working on.

A project I have to get onto is a cabinet with two doors on piano hinges to take more of the tools out of the drawers to store above my bench, because my drawers are full.

[TassieKiwi]

Lookin' good!

Thoughts:

I think that 2400 is ideal - gives you a good 1800 (length of a bed rail) plus extra to place handtools. If you have another bench within reach though you may not require this.
I wish that I had installed the twin-screw as a tailvice, and may retro-fit it, or fit a tailvice. I think that the wonderdog is great, but a big vice would be more efficient in use and would hold things a bit better.
At 600mm I reckon that a lot of your tools will end up on the floor.

[NewLou]

TassieKiwi

What do you think of the Veritas Holddown? ....................... at this stage is my second choice behind the Kreg BUT appears to be a little more versatile..............any comments?

REgards Lou:)

[Greg Q]

:(
G'day Schtoo,

My projects normally have about 10 different bits in various stages of assembly and a few tools required, otherwise most tools are stored in the 3 drawers below.

But yes, I agree and would have to say that what ever size work area you work on it does gather crud. I used to put things like squares, knives, rulers etc. away once used, but now I leave a few things on the bench that I'm using for the thing that I'm working on.

A project I have to get onto is a cabinet with two doors on piano hinges to take more of the tools out of the drawers to store above my bench, because my drawers are full.


I think I'm going to have drawer units at one end, opening on the narrow side. In an earlier shop I had overhead storage for tools and down lights. That was very effective, like a kitchen island bench with pot hooks overhead. The problem is having to be soooo careful with long pieces of timber.

My work area is usually cluttered with projects, tools, kid's toys in for repair, and a jig or two being fabricated/modified/fooled with.
I read a tip somewhere once that advocated the rule of ten: EVERY TIME you enter the shop, put ten things away. When I follow it, it helps noticeably with the clutter.

I have a large ex-entertainment unit as a tool box. It is great, and lives behind my bench. If you make something similar, ensure that the doors are free to open 180 to the carcass, and try not to put too much on them, as you may dislodge something when working. I hate the sound of a tool going 'thunk' on the floor behind me.:o :o

[Chris Parks]

Fair enough. If you used 3mm and largish sections, you'd probably get enough weight in it. OK, I retract my objection. If I've got any steel left over from building the house, I'll make a bench out of it ;)

Fill the legs with ballast before putting the top on. They definitly should be heavy enough then. moving the bench could be a problem though. I had to move mine with a couple of floor jacks, two people and big levers and rollers. Mind you it is about 5 metres long and built out of old conveyer belt structural steel I scabbed aout of the local coal mine for nought when I had no money, nothings changed I've still got no money. Weight is the answer, combined with four or more legs. My bench just sits on blocks of timber which support the full length frame.

[TassieKiwi]

TassieKiwi

What do you think of the Veritas Holddown? ....................... at this stage is my second choice behind the Kreg BUT appears to be a little more versatile..............any comments?

REgards Lou:)

Good thing. More powerful than you would think, and very quick. No chance of having flash drawer units under the bench though.

[Waldo]

If you make something similar, ensure that the doors are free to open 180 to the carcass, and try not to put too much on them, as you may dislodge something when working. I hate the sound of a tool going 'thunk' on the floor behind me.:o :o

G'day,

Yeah, I've seen some great shots of wall units and how others have done them for when it comes time for me to knock one up. Doors will open up 180º to the carcass. Doors will only have saws, rulers and squares on one and chisels, s/drivers on the other.

[NewLou]

Lookin' good!

Thoughts:

At 600mm I reckon that a lot of your tools will end up on the floor.

I reckon ya spot on there Tassie ..................... thats why would be important not to use the Benchtop as a tool tip!

I consider a BEnchtop a worksurface not a storage surface so trying to keep the top as clutter free as possible is an important workhabit to get into ................for me!

ALSO..............I've had great success with my Poorman Bench inlaying rare earth magnets and sealing them in with epoxy. These make a great X-tra set of hands & are unbelieveably strong for their size. (See Pic)

I reckon a few of these strategically placed on the Benchtop & face would make an excellent tool holder. I've also found this system invaluable for holding small fastners drill bits n the like.................real handy stuff!!!!

Regards Lou:):):)

[NewLou]

Gidday:)

Well I think I've just about finished refining my Final Design Heres Apic in ASH!!

The Bench top will be Melamine with breadboard sides n ends. MAin construction ASH.

The top will be busy intergrating a number of accessories including my own sliding dog design:D the black colored rectangles are inlayed rare earth magnets.

Any suggestions before final dimensioning?

REgards Lou:D:D:D

[dazzler]

Lou,

No steel at all,:( , not even a wee little bit:o

Please tell me the threads on the vice are steel:o


dazzler