Attaching internal frames to frame and panel sides

[silentC]

I want to build a couple of cabinets using frame and panel construction. The cabinets will have two doors in front of a cupboard space with a shelf midway aligned to one side and a set of drawers aligned to the other. My question is how to go about attaching web frames etc. to the frame and panel sides? Or would it be better to not attach them at all and have them span from front to back?

Can anybody recommend a good book on building this type of stuff? The books I have got either go the solid carcass path or the ply box with applied panels direction.

[redwood]

My question is how to go about attaching web frames etc. to the frame and panel sides? Or would it be better to not attach them at all and have them span from front to back?

.

Im lost:confused: Must be to early in the day or i need a beer:D

[silentC]

Which bit don't you understand and I'll try to make it clearer :rolleyes:

[bitingmidge]

I had a cupboard like that once... correct me if I'm wrong, but you are going to use a panel on the sides to match the doors, and therefore can't fix to the panel as it needs to "float"

Presumably you'll have a "solid" back?

Only two (and a half) options: use the side panel frame as a structural piece, or use a face frame and as you suggest span from front to back, the extra half option is to do full frame, and hang all the panels off in a sort of variation of the ply box variety.

Cheers,

P

[silentC]

The back will probably just be a bit of ply in a rebate. Yes, the sides are panels, same as the doors. These days, they just make a box out of ply or chipboard and then screw the side panels to it. The guts of the cabinet then just hang off the ply box. I always thought was a waste and I'd like to try and be a bit clever.

I intend to use a face frame, so I suppose I'd need a back frame as well and basically just make up a skeleton, then fix the side panels to it.

[bitingmidge]

I intend to use a face frame, so I suppose I'd need a back frame as well and basically just make up a skeleton, then fix the side panels to it.
Yep.

Cheers,

P:D

[redwood]

the term "web frame" is where im stumped:confused: i better go grab that beer;)

[silentC]

That's the frame that the drawers sit on inside the cabinet.

[redwood]

Aahhhrrr now i understand... :o the word "web frame" threw me. just use a traditional chest of drawers method. If im now thinkin the way you are, make your web frame and cut a sliding dovetail on the end of the front rail and a corasponding socket on the stile of the side pannel frame. Rabbet a grove along the inside of the floating panel continuing into the back stile. when you fit your frame, glue the dovetail in and let the side rail of the web frame float in the rebated panel, then at the back of the frame into the back stile just a dab of glue and screw . to support that at the back of the cabinet just a small rabbet in the muntins with a screw will be all thats required... amazing how a quick stubbie clears the mind:D :D

[Greg Q]

Hi SilentC, Redwood et al...

I have made a similar cabinet-the panel was set into largish frame members, and was not flush with the inside of the frame. I simply cut the dovetail into the frames only and spanned across the inside of the cabinet.

I made a small lip on the drawer runner for the section that spanned the panel-this was to insure the drawer didn't skew in the opening as it was being closed.

I suppose if you wanted you could fix the runner to the center of the panel with a single screw, with spacer as required.

The cabinet that I made is my wife's cutting table in the sewing room, it has heavy drawers, and it get daily use.

Hope this helps..

Greg

[silentC]

That's what I'm after! Thanks. I just wish I could get my hands on a picture or something. I've got an old copy of The Encyclopedia of Furniture Making by Ernest Joyce but it glosses over this stuff a bit.

Now would you mind expanding on this a bit: "to support that at the back of the cabinet just a small rabbet in the muntins with a screw"?

[redwood]

just dusted of my joyce and on pg, 200 (in case we have different editions, its in Part IV Advanced areas of furniture construction) is a dust board panell that shows it. and Greg saying the screw in an elongated hole in the center of the pannel is a great idea. and when you make the back frame, use a middle stile (called a muntin) its for stability and a good place to fix your frame or dividing frame for the drawers. :D

[craigb]

I've got an old copy of The Encyclopedia of Furniture Making by Ernest Joyce but it glosses over this stuff a bit.



I have the Technique of Furniture Making by Joyce. I don't know if it has more info than your book but as I remember he seems to go into a bit of detail.

[silentC]

Right oh, will have a look when I get home. I stared at those pictures for about an hour last night but was having trouble constructing the whole thing in my head from the bits and pieces that they show detail of.

The cabinet is a 2 door + drawers arrangement, so the drawers will be roughly 1/3 the width of the cabinet. I guess the muntin would go in the corresponding position at the back and there would be two panels to make up the back, or would I set the muntin in a bit so the back goes right through from corner to corner?

Could I use the stiles of the side panels for the stiles of the back frame, or would I be better to make up a separate frame and attached the sides to it?

[redwood]

I have the Technique of Furniture Making by Joyce. I don't know if it has more info than your book but as I remember he seems to go into a bit of detail.

Isnt Technique of Furniture Making by Joyce, and Furniture Making by Joyce the same book:confused:

[Greg Q]

and Greg saying the screw in an elongated hole in the center of the pannel is a great idea. . :D

Would you guys bother with the screw slot if it was just one in the center of the panel? I guess you'd need to know the panel had equal expansion room in both directions without it, come to think of it.

[silentC]

Isnt Technique of Furniture Making by Joyce, and Furniture Making by Joyce the same book
I don't think it is because I seem to remember him referring to it in the Encyclopedia of Furniture Making, as in "this process is detailed in Technique of ..."

[Termite]

Mate there is no reason why you can't span from the front to back of the side frames, just don't fix to the panels. All the movement will be in the floating panel as if you didn't know this. :rolleyes:

I have a walnut dressing table under way at the moment using this method, and all I'm doing is doweling the drawer slides into the front and rear vertical panels of the sides. Doweling as a reliable location/fixing method.

[craigb]

Isnt Technique of Furniture Making by Joyce, and Furniture Making by Joyce the same book:confused:

No. The Technique of ... and The Encylopedia of ... are two different books.

[redwood]

The cabinet is a 2 door + drawers arrangement, so the drawers will be roughly 1/3 the width of the cabinet. I guess the muntin would go in the corresponding position at the back and there would be two panels to make up the back, or would I set the muntin in a bit so the back goes right through from corner to corner?

Set the muntin in the coresponding possie at the back




Could I use the stiles of the side panels for the stiles of the back frame, or would I be better to make up a separate frame and attached the sides to it?

I would. as you would have a top frame that is fixed to the side frame assembly, dovetailed to the top of the side frame pannel frame, but not the same as that for the web frame. hope that dosnt confuse you:) but when you see the pic in joyce you will see what i mean. and instead of the rebate in the web frame just screw the top end rail of the top frame to the side panel rail with elongated screws. The way you fix the base to the sides is up to you. so youl end up with 2 sides a base and a frame on top. as you will be rebating for ply to slide into the back, make sure the back of the top frame is ripped so it ends where the rebate starts. then before glue up mark and fit the muntin. m & t is the propper way, dowels and screws the lazy redwood way:D and dont forget to cut rebates in it for the ply. when its all glued up and top fixed it will be solid as a rock:D

[redwood]

No. The Technique of ... and The Encylopedia of ... are two different books.

My copys cover and side calls it, JOYCE - The Encylopedia of Furniture Making, and inside the cover calls it The Technique of Furniture Making which is the revised version my Allan Peters:confused:

[silentC]

Right, well I'll have a look at the pics and see if I can make sense of it. Thanks for the advice and the book tip all :D

[Barry_White]

Hi Darren

Don't know if this is what you mean about frame construction. I made these out of Radiata and the whole frame is pocket hole screwed together and the carcase was very strong. the design came from a set of drawers that I took some photos of in a motel I stayed in once. I have just covered the side with some 3/8 ply and some solid Radiata for the top.

Have a look at the 3rd picture showing the construction inside. If need be can take some more detailed pictures.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=197237&postcount=1

[redwood]

In a nut shell Baz the same thing, but with traditional methods to satisfy the cravings of those crazy non-pocket holing darksider loonies:cool:
Good lookin little cupboards you made their :D :D

[craigb]

My copys cover and side calls it, JOYCE - The Encylopedia of Furniture Making, and inside the cover calls it The Technique of Furniture Making which is the revised version my Allan Peters:confused:

Well mine says JOYCE Furniture Making on the spline and

The Technique of Furniture Making

Fourth Edition - Revised by
Alan Peters

On the front and the inside.

ISBN 0 7134 8814 X

AFAIK The Encyclopedia is a different book.

[silentC]

I'd better have another look at mine before ordering it :confused:

[silentC]

Don't know if this is what you mean about frame construction.
Pretty much, the only difference being that the sides of mine will be 5 piece frame and panel instead of solid timber sides like yours.

So you have a face frame, then you've got a side frame with the draw runners on it. The top frame is just two rails which butt into the top of the side frames . The sides are rebated for the ply back and the rear rail on the top is flush with the bottom of the rebate, then the top comes flush with the sides at the back.

It's hard to put this stuff in words. I'd hate to try and write a book on it!

[redwood]

here is the inside of Encyclopedia of Furniture Making and its identical info as the technique of furniture making. unless someone out their has both im possitive they are the same book:confused:

http://books.google.com.au/books?ie=UTF-8&hl=en&id=7B9YniTDQnIC&dq=JOYCE+-+Furniture+Making.+The+Technique+of+Furniture+Making&prev=http://www.google.com.au/search%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3DJOYCE%2B-%2BFurniture%2BMaking.%2BThe%2BTechnique%2Bof%2BFurniture%2BMaking%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26meta%3D&lpg=PP1&pg=PP4&printsec=2&sig=YEVAdRoX1uuJPoHxRVrZuOxVxvg

[craigb]

I'd better have another look at mine before ordering it :confused:

Yeah I'd do that.

Redwood's comment spurred me to do a web search.

Although the titles and ISBN numbers of the books are different, the table of contents, the chapter/sub chapter headings, the page numbers and the total number of pages for the book appear to be identical.

It appears that the book has been rebadged more than once as there appears to be more than one cover for the Encyclopedia as well.

So I won't be bothering to add the encyclopedia to my collection. :rolleyes:

[silentC]

Damn. I thought I'd found the book with all the answers, only to discover I've already got it! Maybe I'd better put the dog out, lock the kids in their rooms, hide the telephone form the missus and turn off the TV before I read it again :rolleyes:

[redwood]

Mate there is no reason why you can't span from the front to back of the side frames, just don't fix to the panels. All the movement will be in the floating panel as if you didn't know this. :rolleyes:

I have a walnut dressing table under way at the moment using this method, and all I'm doing is doweling the drawer slides into the front and rear vertical panels of the sides. Doweling as a reliable location/fixing method.

It depends on what quality your trying to achieve. If you are going to dowell you mose well pocket hole and epoxy. if your after quality using more traditional ways then the dovetail/floating side rail is easy , attractive and rock solid alowing propper movement. the back rail should also be a sliding dovetail in and the side rail morticed in to the front and back but with no glue, and elongated screws into the side panell:D

[Barry_White]

Pretty much, the only difference being that the sides of mine will be 5 piece frame and panel instead of solid timber sides like yours.

So you have a face frame, then you've got a side frame with the draw runners on it. The top frame is just two rails which butt into the top of the side frames . The sides are rebated for the ply back and the rear rail on the top is flush with the bottom of the rebate, then the top comes flush with the sides at the back.

It's hard to put this stuff in words. I'd hate to try and write a book on it!

Thats pretty much it. I ripped up a heap of 35 x 40 and ran it through the planer. Didn't have time to muck around making proper joints and just used the pocket hole jig to make the frames and then just glued and screwed them together.

Up here a lot of the backyard furniture makers here that sell their furniture at the local markets build their furniture that way but usually sheet the frames with 12mm Radiata lining boards and just tack the boards on with a brad nailer and then putty the brad holes and then make solid tops out of 20mm Radiata.

The must make a dollar out of it because they are there week after week. There is one guy not far from me out in the bush who has a fairly big workshop manufacturing.

[redwood]

Damn. I thought I'd found the book with all the answers, only to discover I've already got it! Maybe I'd better put the dog out, lock the kids in their rooms, hide the telephone form the missus and turn off the TV before I read it again :rolleyes:

iv just saved you 80 bucks;) ill PM you my address and you can foward a slab on:D

[Rocker]

SilentC,

I made the sound system cabinet described by Neil Scobie in Australian Woodworker #102. In his design, the side panels are inset 6 mm from the inside face of their frame. The web frame, or shelf in this case, sits in 5 mm deep dadoes in the stiles of the side frame, and does not touch the panel.

Rocker

[redwood]

The top frame is just two rails which butt into the top of the side frames .

you should dovetail them in:D

[silentC]

This is the page that I was looking at last night. Number 2 is my scenario, however in the text he says that the drawer runners are glued to the sides (which are ply). I think this is more from the point of view of strengthening the sides than supporting the runners though.

[redwood]

This is the page that I was looking at last night. Number 2 is my scenario, however in the text he says that the drawer runners are glued to the sides (which are ply). I think this is more from the point of view of strengthening the sides than supporting the runners though.

thats 195 in my copy, go to 200 and thats what i was thinking

[Barry_White]

This is the page that I was looking at last night. Number 2 is my scenario, however in the text he says that the drawer runners are glued to the sides (which are ply). I think this is more from the point of view of strengthening the sides than supporting the runners though.

Darren

With mine there is a piece in the frame to give support to the outside cladding then I have strip of 3mm MDF fixed to the inside of that piece of the frame and then I fixed the runner on top of the MDF. The MDF or Masonite in the case of the one I copied is there to stop the drawer from skewing as you push the draw in.

[silentC]

Yep spotted that, Bazza. I'll have to do something similar. Will probably glue a strip to the runner.


thats 195 in my copy, go to 200 and thats what i was thinking
Yes, had a look at that as well. I'm familiar with that idea but thought it would only work with solid timber sides - hadn't thought of routing a groove in the panel.

I think I've got it 3D modelled in my head now. So I'll start putting some frames together and see where I end up. Just have to sort out the details of the bottom and the top. It will have a toe kick space along the front and one side because it's built in to a corner.

I'll probably make the bottom and the shelf from ply. The top I don't know yet. I want solid timber but still tossing up whether to veneer a bit of ply or chipboard, or make it solid with a frame underneath.

[javali]

Are you looking for something like this?

[silentC]

Yes!! Where did you get that?

[javali]

Yes!! Where did you get that?

September 1938 issue of the "Woodworker".

[silentC]

Damn, thought it might have been a book. That's exactly what I'm after though. An old cabinet maker's textbook or something.

[Waldo]

G'day,

I'm glad I came across this topic.

One of the things I really regret is when my Dad asked when I was 13 and if I wanted to learn w/work from him, I said no.

Something I regret severly and it's too late now.

This book: JOYCE Furniture Making on the spline and

The Technique of Furniture Making

Fourth Edition - Revised by
Alan Peters

On the front and the inside.

ISBN 0 7134 8814 X

AFAIK or

The Encyclopedia.

Which is the more indepth of the two to tell me all I want to know about cabinet making etc. the right way not the whack-it-up-with-a-nail-gun-el cheapo-like you get from joinerys now-a-days?

I know a little bit, but not as much as I ever would've learnt from my Dad.
:(

[craigb]

G'day,

I'm glad I came across this topic.

One of the things I really regret is when my Dad asked when I was 13 and if I wanted to learn w/work from him, I said no.

Something I regret severly and it's too late now.

This book: JOYCE Furniture Making on the spline and

The Technique of Furniture Making

Fourth Edition - Revised by
Alan Peters

On the front and the inside.

ISBN 0 7134 8814 X

AFAIK or

The Encyclopedia.

Which is the more indepth of the two to tell me all I want to know about cabinet making etc. the right way not the whack-it-up-with-a-nail-gun-el cheapo-like you get from joinerys now-a-days?

I know a little bit, but not as much as I ever would've learnt from my Dad.
:(

Umm, have you read the other posts in this thread?

[silentC]

I think we decided yesterday that they are one and the same. My page numbers correspond to Redwoods, his is Technique of, mine is Encyclopedia of.

Anyway, although it covers a lot, it doesn't really go into details of construction. Being an encylopedia, it's more about what is done and why, not so much the how. I spent a bit of time last night going through it. It's worth having but there is a gap that is not covered by it.

[Waldo]

I think we decided yesterday that they are one and the same. My page numbers correspond to Redwoods, his is Technique of, mine is Encyclopedia of.

Anyway, although it covers a lot, it doesn't really go into details of construction. Being an encylopedia, it's more about what is done and why, not so much the how. I spent a bit of time last night going through it. It's worth having but there is a gap that is not covered by it.


G'day,

Yes Craigb, I read throught the posts, but being an Encyclopedia wondered if it glossed over things a bit more than the "Technique of ..." So the Technique covers it a bit better, or is there a better book to go out and get?

[craigb]

"Technique of ..." So the Technique covers it a bit better, or is there a better book to go out and get?

Encyclopedia and Technique of are the same book. Just different titles.

Whatever you call it, it's a must for any woodworkers' bookshelf I reckon.

[Waldo]

G'day Craigb,

Thanks, maybe being a pain, but I wanted to clarify it all before i buy it. Just doing a search on eBay for it now.

[craigb]

G'day Craigb,

Thanks, maybe being a pain, but I wanted to clarify it all before i buy it. Just doing a search on eBay for it now.

You should be able to get it from Angus and Robertson's or Dymocks.

I got mine form A&R. It was about $50 from memory.

[Lignum]

Are you looking for something like this?

Silent:) Pg252 Joyce . No 243/1 is almost identical to this thumbnail except for mid rail -A. Very traditional, and im not sure what quality your after as in Darkside or the Normalside.

If the Normalside is calling, follow Termites advice and dowel rails B (as in the pic) and biscuit or dowel rails A. Biscuit end of drawer runner D and just screw in the middle with larger hole for movement into the floating panel and screw and glue the end rail B (not shown in the pic) into the back rebated (for your ply) side frame stile.
Go with good 19mm ply for the base and 20mm solid edge it. I use British standard grade marine ply and its the ducks nuts. About $40 extra than interior ply but 10x the quality, super flat and very light in weight. Just biscuit that to the bottom side panels (i also put four pocket holes under so it dosnt need to be in the clamps to long)
That would be the quickest way to get a solid well constructed carcase:)

[Lignum]

Apart from Joyce (and they are the same) also look for a seconhand copy of "Woodwork in Theory and in Practice" by John Walton. It was standard text for us at schools and is still a sensational reference book.:)

[silentC]

Seems to be out of print. I Googled it but only got two links, both to this forum.

[Lignum]

Its been out of print for years. Secondhand is the only way now. Trouble is most people dont want to part with it. But if you find one grab it:)

[silentC]

I've always wanted to see your workshop, Lignum ;)

[craigb]

Its been out of print for years. Secondhand is the only way now. Trouble is most people dont want to part with it. But if you find one grab it:)

Both A&R and Dymocks list it as available.

A&R says in stock at publisher (Random hHouse), usually ships within 7 to ten days.

$34.95 hardback.

[Barry_White]

All my furniture that I bought in the early 60's is constucted like this mainly clad with veneered ply.

I think that it is the 1930 to the 1960's version of the el-cheapo Ikea style furniture which was pre-chipboard/MDF era that has evolved into cladding it with radiata lining boards and stained it to look like different types of timber because back in that time only the people flush with cash could afford to buy furniture made from solid timber.

[silentC]

I think it's a good alternative though, much better than the Ikea stuff. Frame and Panel means you don't have to worry as much about movement and I actually prefer the look of it to solid timber in some ways.

Fact of the matter is that I have a heap of hardwood laying about that I can use for frames and plenty of stuff to make panels from. If I wanted to make it from ply or something like it, I would have to spend money :eek:

[Waldo]

G'day Craigb,

Thanks for the search at Dymock's etc. I'll pop into my local and see what's what.

[Termite]

I just woke up to what's going on. In my lingo "Frame and panel" refers to a frame around a floating panel, you blokes are obviously talking about something else.:o

[craigb]

G'day Craigb,

Thanks for the search at Dymock's etc. I'll pop into my local and see what's what.

No worries but you may well have to end up ordering it in anyway.

[silentC]

No, you've got it right Termite. I am talking about frame and panel: a five piece job with two stiles, two rails and a floating panel. I want to use them for the cabinet sides instead of solid timber or ply.

The pic that Javali posted is exactly what I want to do. The drawer runners are fixed to the side panel stiles front and back. You can put a single screw in an oversized hole in the middle of the panel but it's not required unless the drawers are going to be carrying a heavy load. I might still do it so that the whole thing is a bit more rigid.

[outback]

Ok 60 posts of drivel on this thread. Now it's time to get serious.

drill a 5mm hole and belt in a 6 inch nail. This will be solid, and attach your panelling. If you don't flog it in all the way it can double as a towel hanger.

One other sugestion which hasn't been covered is a cbook called, The technique or Encyclopaedia of cabinet making. I can't remember which, good read, gat a copy if you can. I can't thiunk why it wasn't brought up before. :D

[Lignum]

Floating panell in a frame is correct. Trying to establish the best way Silent can join his carcase that has "frame and panel" ends. Theirs the traditional way and the modern dowel/pocket hole way. Trying to find common ground in the middle it the tricky part:)

[Barry_White]

I think it's a good alternative though, much better than the Ikea stuff. Frame and Panel means you don't have to worry as much about movement and I actually prefer the look of it to solid timber in some ways.

Fact of the matter is that I have a heap of hardwood laying about that I can use for frames and plenty of stuff to make panels from. If I wanted to make it from ply or something like it, I would have to spend money :eek:

Darren

I'm not knocking it I also think that is a good alternative to solid timber that is getting very expensive. I made up my set of drawers out of a heap of radiata that I had lying around as well as the ply. All I bought was the solid radiata for the tops and the drawer fronts from Bunnings el-cheapo pile after going through about 45 lengths to get the 4 best ones and the knobs.

Like you say the frames become very solid and ply is better than MDF and Chipboard.

[Termite]

Aaaha, well the way I did mine at the front was to put a 40mm return, lock mitre joined to the side stile and then M & T the front rails into it. The back rails are just doweled into the back stile, set in the thickness of the back sheet.

[silentC]

Yep, I'm with you. I'm going to give it a go the 'traditional way' just for the fun of it. It will no doubt take me 6 weeks to make the bloody thing but at least I'll know what I'm missing out on next time I make a new fangled ply box one. It's one of those lost art things. My grandpappy used to make built-ins and I'd like to at least say I know how to do it.

Might even post pictures so you can all laugh at me :D

[Termite]

Might even post pictures so you can all laugh at me :D
You want a laugh....come and look at my reject pile. I keep them to check if the current stuff up was as bad as the last. :D

[mat]

Woodwork in Theory and Practice is available at $34.95 from Dymocks and other book stores. Still 6th ed though

[silentC]

OK, I'll give it a shot. They say "Availability to be confirmed", which I read as "Out of Print" but I'll try ordering it and see what happens.

[mat]

If that fails I know that the CITSA bookshop at the Bruce CIT in Canberra has it in stock.

[silentC]

Thanks Mat. I placed an order with Dymocks, will see what they come back with.

[craigb]

Thanks Mat. I placed an order with Dymocks, will see what they come back with.

Geez Darren, doncha read my posts (from 4 days ago I might add) anymore? :p

[silentC]

Bugger. Must have missed that one amongst all the discussion on the other book. Thanks Craig, duly noted!! ;)

[silentC]

OK, I got the book. It's very quaint and all but.... it doesn't answer the one question I still have:

How to handle the bottom of the cabinet. They go on at length about tops and sides and doors and drawers. Plenty on plinths and aprons and crown mouldings, but not one single word or picture on the bottom of the cabinet. Now, if you were making it from solid timber, you would just dovetail the bottom board to the sides. But my sides are frame and panel and I want to make the bottom the same way.

So what's a good way to make a bottom from ply with a hardwood frame? Would you rebate the ply panel so it's flush with the frame, or would you glue it to the face of the frame. Or what?

[Rocker]

SilentC,

The answer to my query may be contained in the previous five pages of posts, but I will ask anyway. Does the bottom need to to support weight? Or is the ply just to keep out dust? If the latter, why not just use a thin ply panel set in a groove ripped in the inner edges of the bottom frame on the table-saw? If the former, I would rebate the inner edges of the bottom frame to receive a thicker plywood panel flush with the frame.

Rocker

[silentC]

It's basically the bottom shelf in a cupboard, so yes it will carry weight, although not a huge amount.

What I had in mind was a frame with a groove and then a panel with a rebated edge forming a tongue which is received into the groove in the frame. The rebate is the same depth as the groove so that the panel is flush. Similar to the way you would do a back.

The only reservation I have is that leaving room for expansion, this will result in a gap between the visible edge of the panel; and the frame, which would be a good dust trap. Not such a problem on a vertical surface...

[javali]

Just make another frame for the bottom, and place between or under the sides. Another option is to use the bottom rails of the sides for the bottom frame - you have to grove the insides of the bottom rails, tenon the front and rear rails of the bottom to the side stiles, and cut the bottom ply to fit around the stiles. Similar to the construction of frame and panel chests (http://www.rd.com/americanwoodworker/articles/200002/main/index.html).

[javali]

The only reservation I have is that leaving room for expansion, this will result in a gap between the visible edge of the panel; and the frame, which would be a good dust trap. Not such a problem on a vertical surface...

I would have thought that ply is stable enough that you do not need room for expansion...

[silentC]

OK, I got it. Only thing is, I want the bottom to be flush with the bottom of the door: no lip. I think I've got an idea how I'll do it. Will see how it goes. Thanks!

[silentC]

I would have thought that ply is stable enough that you do not need room for expansion...
Yes you are right. No problem with gluing in a ply panel. I was originally thinking of making it from solid timber but ply would probably be better.

[Lignum]

Silent:) I use Marine Ply for all my internals. People say its over the top and a waste of money to use, but if you are going to make a good quality cabinet work dont use crap interior ply. Marine Ply is super light, straight and has a nicer grain, and when oiled looks the part. A 2.4 x 1.2 surface area in Tas Oak (cheapest option) is 8 @ 2.4 x 150 x 25 boards @ $6,55 p/m = $125 plus dressing, jointing, glueing/clamping, sanding. Same surface area in British Standard Marine ply is $102. plus ripping and solid edging. Its very economical to use the better quality ply:)

[silentC]

The problem I have is where to get it. There's nowhere around here I know of that sells it. The local hardware sells your usual construction ply and those little handyman sheets. I may still go for solid timber for this because I have a heap of flooring offcuts that would be OK. I could even leave the tongue and groove on.