Thames Wherry

[VEEBULL]

The mid life crisis has finally kicked in !! Instead of the red sports car & blonde girlfriend , I have decided to have a lash at building a ' wherry.' I saw one is a pic years ago and was just stoked by it's beauty .Recently I saw a movie , in which the central character is a boat builder .In one scene he is pulling in what appears to be a ' wherry ' going by the transom .My plan is to do one planked , sans plywood/glue . I love to hear from anyone that has built a wherry or dinghy in the traditional manner .So guys , have I or am I about to bite off more than I can chew ??

I have looked at several websites , that have plans for wherries , however , the plans seem to be for 'modern construction methods' i.e ply planking and lots of glue .Does any body have any plans or know where I can get some for trad lapstrake design .Also suggest any books that may be of help .

regards
Veebull

[Macneacail]

Mate:

I am thinking that suicide would be easier and a quicker way to hell than building a wherry. She will cost you a fortune and where are you gunna sail her.

But if you are set on a living hell - as I have been for the last 12 months in building a clinker boat. There are some old time boat builders on the Bulletin Board for the Arthur Ransome Society. They can answer a lot of boat building questions and also provide details of Thames Wherries.

Do a search on Tarboard on Google and then join. Most are not Aussies but they are ok.

Reask the question there and be surprised at the responses usually within minutes if not hours.

John Nichols

[bitingmidge]

John has a point about suicide...

I was having a "deep and meaningful" about this last night, and I reckon boats are the only objects still being built using antiquated methods that are fundamentally inefficient, just because of some romantic urge.

The parallel I drew was the current "car nostalgia", the Mini, VW, PT Cruiser etc, all vastly better built, safer, more reliable than the "good old days" model that we seem to hanker after.

Plank boatbuilding is a fine craft, and should be kept alive for the restoration of boats built in that form, but the only old planked boats you find are half new anyway, (if they've been properly maintained).

There are so many terrific designs that evoke the same feelings, but are lighter, stronger and more efficient as well as easier to build using modern methods that actually require less maintenance as well.

By way of example, check out David Payne's (http://www.payneyachts.com/) Greenwich Gig and Rocks River Skiff for what I reckon is a nifty compromise.

Cheers,

P

[jmk89]

When I saw that Veebull was considering building a wherry, my thoughts went to the old Norfolk working boat used to cart cargo aound the Norfolk Broads region of England. A bit of googling showed the error - a Thames wherry is a kind of elongated rowing skiff (like Elle Macpherson is a kind of tall girl). So the project is much more 'doable' than I feared.

Every pasttime has those who turn their back on 'progress' and demand that it be done according to how it was hundreds of years ago. But modern times are bad enough without burdening yourself with some of the few benefits of 'progress', like real waterproofing of boats and glues that really stick.

Ask any passing Viking and he will tell you that Boat Cote would have been more populare than a Finnish sauna in medieval Norway and Denmark.

But if you are going to do it "traditional", and get the true masochistic kick, do it without power tools or anything first produced after 1900 (that includes the Yankee screwdriver which I still prefer when it comes to driving soft metal screws)!!!!

[jmk89]

Just by way of explanation, Veebull, my pet potential project at the moment is to build a Tamar sailing dinghy - this was a popular design in Tasmania when my Dad and I were there about 40 years ago and he bought a set of the plans. He and I never got around to building "our" boat before he died. So I want to build it in his memory and also to teach my young son to sail in.
My first inclination was to do it as a historical reconstruction - using tools and products that were around in the 50's and 60's.
Then I realised that, not only was that going to make it much harder, it was also going to make it less safe for me to put in the water (big consideratin when you consider not only me but also the offspring). Both of those were going to reduce my desire to start or complete the project.
So now I am reconciled to using epoxy (and modern sails and stuff that doesn't corrode) as well as power tools (imagine trying to cut all that ply using the circular saw attachment on an old Skil electric drill - which was what Dad and I planned to do when we pulled th plans out in the 70's)

[Daddles]

Let's take a traditionalist's look at this question (from a mad git who thinks an inboard motor is a human :rolleyes: ).

Traditionally, boats were built using the best materials and methods for the job at hand. If we ignore economics, which has spawned the tupperware boats (coz they can build dozens of the rotten things real quick) ... ohhh, okay, if we say that the cost of time isn't an issue, wood makes a lot of sense.

But do we do 'lumps of tree' or 'lumps of tree turned into plywood'?

I honestly believe that the modern clinker plywood approach as espoused by Iain Oughtred and David Payne (and others, but poo, those two are my favourite designers :D ), is the modern form of traditional boat building. They have all the benefits of a planked boat - good shape, the plank landings, beauty, etc (and Mik, I'm NOT having a shot at your style of boat), with the advantage that they do not rely on the wood being wet to seal the boat. The old clinker boats relied on a porous paint and the wood swelling to keep the wet stuff where it should be. A clinker boat forced to live on the dry stuff tends to leak until the wood has had a chance to swell and seal the holes. A glued plywood boat is always watertight and relies on the paint to do no more than protect the timber from scratches. Glued clinker plywood is a better choice for a boat that lives in your driveway and plays on the weekend.

If you desperately want to build a pure clinker boat, go ahead ... and you'll have me dribbling down your neck taking notes as I'd like to make one myself one day.

However, unless you are in love with the woodworking involved in producing such a boat, choosing glued clinker plywood is more practical and just as beautiful.

Richard

[Daddles]

Wooden boat building - using dangerous tools to shape toxic materials into a craft that can sink and drown you :D

Luv 'em

Richard

[VEEBULL]

All great responses guys , thanks ! At the moment it is research , research , research ! I shall certainly check out the various websites mentioned .Of course , gathering the appropriate timbers is going to be a challenge in itself .I am off to the UK in September , and have been told by a workmate that there are still a couple of traditional boat builders on the Severn , at Shrewsbury Shropshire ," like where ee is from ."

I have in my possession a number of Rosewood Marples firmers and pattern makers gouges as well as an assortment of Addis & Sons chisels , circa 1900 , that are just screaming out to be used !! So for me , it is about the woodwork , I reckon , if I ever get this project started / finished , I will have to get a proper rowing bloke for the maiden voyage !!

thanks once again for all your comments

regards
Veebull

[Jock_PL]

Follow this link for a picture of a Thames Wherry. "Rose in June" is 100% traditional, oak planks, copper nails and roves, not a drop of epoxy anywhere. The builder , Mark Edwards is the person standing in th stern of the boat.

http://www.richmondbridgeboathouses.com/images/build4.jpg

[HappyHammer]

Thanks Jock.

Where are you going to get the rowers from Veebull ?

HH.

[VEEBULL]

Thanks for the pic Jock , excellent !!!! A bit bigger than what I wish to build though , something in the order of 14-16ft , single seat is what I had in mind .Veebull

[Jock_PL]

Thanks for the pic Jock , excellent !!!! A bit bigger than what I wish to build though , something in the order of 14-16ft , single seat is what I had in mind .Veebull

A Thames Wherry is big and heavy. They were used after all to move people and furniture up and down London. Another snag is that there are no line drawings, though there is a scale model in the Science Museum in Kensington.
The good news is that there is a lighter and smaller derivative called a Thames Skiff. Thames Skiffs are a delight to row and there are many surviving examples. ("Rose in June" was built by three master Thames boatbuilders, but she is a replica.) Thames skiffs come in single. double and triple versions. Here is another link:

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/leopold/mark/rowena/rowena.html

[VEEBULL]

Goodonya Jock , yep got my wherries & skiffs arsey versey !! It would seem that the craft I first saw was an 'ANNAOPLIS WHERRY,' (a craft designed to suit more open East Coast American waters rather than rivers ), which I beleive was styled after the Thames Skiff & not the Thames Wherry .Veebull

[Jock_PL]

Goodonya Jock , yep got my wherries & skiffs arsey versey !! It would seem that the craft I first saw was an 'ANNAOPLIS WHERRY,' (a craft designed to suit more open East Coast American waters rather than rivers ), which I beleive was styled after the Thames Skiff & not the Thames Wherry .Veebull

If you are coming to visit the UK in September drop in on Mark Edwards at Richmond Bridge boatbuilders. Mark still builds wooden boats the traditional way... .

http://www.richmondbridgeboathouses.com/

[VEEBULL]

Jock , I have looked at Mark Edwards websight , some right gallus craft there !!! I am heading down to Bisley first up & then to Shrewsbury , however , a detour to Marks yard will definetly be on .

regards
Veebull

[Jock_PL]

Jock , I have looked at Mark Edwards websight , some right gallus craft there !!! I am heading down to Bisley first up & then to Shrewsbury , however , a detour to Marks yard will definetly be on .

regards
Veebull

When you know when you are going to Richmond Bridge Boathouses, let me know. (You can find me and post me a message on Tarboard, the Arthur Ransome discussion forum.) It would be fun to talk to you about your project over a pint of ale. (Did you see the wooden submarine replica? That was my idea!) In the meantime here are some photos which you might enjoy. It's a man beating a world record in a Thames Skiff.

http://www.dittons.org.uk/records/singlemeander/photos1.php

Sadly there's no icon of a mug of beer on The Woodwork Forum

[TK1]

Hi,

I read this thread a while ago, and happened to be flicking through the Wooden Boat Store catalogue last night (from WoodenBoat magazine) and they advertise the following:

"Rip, Strip and Row!" - A Builder's Guide to the Cosine Wherry
By Brown, Picket and Hartstock

"Build the Cosine Wherry, featured in Wooden Boat #100. Instructions and removeable plans for this fast 14' strip-planked pulling boat are included."
#300-159 $19.95USD 81 pages / softcover

The picture on the front looks like a classic Wherry shape, and at 14' it's a managable size to build and transport. Should go fast too.

Check out www.woodenboatstore.com or you pmight get it through one of the specialty bookshops out here (www.boatbooks.com.au may have it).

Enjoy the world of wooden boat building. The wooden boat association in your state may have info too.

Regards,
Darren

[WRB]

The best traditional werry plans come from

http://www.duck-trap.com/dtw.html

I have a set of plans for the Newfoundland Trap Skiff if you want to see them

cheers
Warren