Saw sharpening - what type of saw set?

[Driver]

I'm interested in learning how to sharpen a couple of old saws.

I've had a look at the video on the Taunton website that shows how to sharpen a dovetail saw. It's a very good instructional video and displays the technique really well. I can see there's a fair bit of skill involved but that doesn't put me off. As with any technique, the only way to learn is to practice.

My question is - there are obviously many different types of saw set available. I assume that they vary according to the size and type of saw. Is this right? Does anyone have a definitive list of what type of saw set to use for the different types of saw?

The two old saws I want to sharpen first are both panel saws - crosscut and 10 tpi. One is an old Spear & Jackson and the other is hard to identify. It seems to have what might be an elephant logo on the blade and I can make out some lettering that may read "Bedford".

Col

[derekcohen]

Col

I am no expert on saw sets, but I know enough to avoid 99% of the ones sold on eBay. Saw sets differs in the size of tooth they can work on, and some also do this more easily than others.

The Stanley #42 is a good all-rounder and probably the "best" vintage model on the market for about 6 tpi (I wouldn't swear to that but close enough) through about 12 tpi. This means that you would not be able to use it on fine-toothed dovetail and tenon saws (typically about 15 tpi).

Having said that, the bronze Eclipse model #77 (again from memory) is also only meant to go up to 12 tpi, but I used mine very effectively on a 15 tpi dovetail saw I sharpened and set (and it cuts a kerf as tight and clean as my LN Independence dovetail saw).

The ideal saw set for dovetail saws is the Stanley #42X. This will work on teeth even smaller than 15 tpi. The additional feature is that it hold the blade, then strikes the tip, which is more secure.

The #42X is much harder to find on eBay than the others. The #42 comes up quite frequently (be careful to check that it is not a #42W, which is I recall for very - VERY! - large crosscut saws). The Eclipse is reasonably common. Just check (ask) that the plunger is not worn - I guess you are fairly safe if the condition is generally good.

Failing above, have a look on Toolsforworkingwood.com

Hopefully Mike will chip in with his expert knowledge.

Kind regards

Derek

[Clinton1]

Col,
Saw sets are adjustable for a range of "TPI". The most common design of set will have a rotating "anvil" that is marked with the graduations. I don't think you will find too many that won't cover the range you want. I'm no expert, but I have never seen one that won't cover the whole range of common TPI.
Mine has this, a magnifying viewing window to aid reading off the set number and a lock nut to hold the anvil in place.

Have you seen the Bob Smalser Saw Sharpening "tutorial" that includes the file jig? Also, you can use two boards and some clamps (or the bench vice) to make a quick and dirty saw vise. Both are invaluable, logical and cheap.
Have fun

[Wood Butcher]

I have an Eclipse no. 77 and like Derek said I have used it on a 15tpi blade without any problems. It also holds the blade prior to setting the tooth which makes it easy to use. I think I got it for $4 at a garage a few years ago and find it a very useful addition to my kit.

[AlexS]

Also have an eclipse #77 about 50 years old (dad's). Works fine, easy to use. They turn up at 2nd hand tool sales all the time, shouldn't be more than a couple of $$.

[derekcohen]

I'm no expert, but I have never seen one that won't cover the whole range of common TPI.

Clinton

I wish that was true. What make do you have?

Here is someone who is Collecting Saw Sets (http://www.craftsofnj.org/toolshed/articles/Collecting%20Saw%20Sets/Collecting%20saw%20sets.htm).

And here is one called The Saw Set Collector's Resource (http://members.mybizz.net/~con12a/)

Vintage saws (http://www.vintagesaws.com/sets/sets.html)is the site to pay attention to.

Google is a wonderful friend.

Kind regards

Derek

[Clinton1]

Derek,
I'll have to ring up tomorrow and find out the brand from the retailer. The sets in Toowoomba, and I've thrown out most of the packaging.
I guess that it'll be the definition of "common TPI" that will decide if you agree or not! Its a new English made one.

[Driver]

Gentlemen

Thanks for the information - in particular, thanks to Derek for the websites. Bit more research to do and I'll be ready to have a shot at this!

Col

[routermaniac]

I've been happy with my eclipse, dont recall the mak tpi though, better check that one...

[Schtoo]

I have one that looks identical to the one in the Taunton video.

It's a die cast thing, goes under the brand of Sonax, and it I have used it to set one of my fine saws I have here. About 25tpi or so.

Need to sit down for a while after doing that though. Too many teeth!

The hammer in it is small, unlike most of the older ones that have a wider pin for getting a good poke on bigger teeth.

Cost about $12 I think. Nothing spectacular, but it does the job.

[Mirboo]

I have a Stanley No. 42X saw set and a Disston No. 24 (same as the Stanley 42W). The instructions for the 42X state that it has the capacity for "Back, Panel, and Small Circular Saws, 18 gauge and thinner, having 14 points or less to the inch." The instructions for the Disston 24 state that it is "suitable for use on hand and panel saws, butcher saw blades, pulpwood saw blades, band saws and small circular saws, 18 gauge and thinner having from 4 to 16 points per inch." Depending on the dovetail saw you are intending to sharpen (i.e. Lie-Nielsen dovetail saw is 15 points per inch, Adria dovetail saw is 15 teeth per inch (16 points per inch)) you might find that an old Disston No. 24 or Stanley 42W would do the trick.

Regards,
Mirboo.

[MikeW]

I have one that looks identical to the one in the Taunton video.

It's a die cast thing, goes under the brand of Sonax, and it I have used it to set one of my fine saws I have here. About 25tpi or so.

Need to sit down for a while after doing that though. Too many teeth!

The hammer in it is small, unlike most of the older ones that have a wider pin for getting a good poke on bigger teeth.

Cost about $12 I think. Nothing spectacular, but it does the job.
Col,

I quoted Schtoo's message as he points out the saw sets I have been recommending for anyone who wishes to get a good, usable saw set.

Here is a link to pictures and a description.
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-SAWSET.XX&Category_Code=

Note that Joel on that website says if you were to only get one, get the blue [fine] one. I would use the blue one down to 10 or so, but no further. The issue is where on the tooth the bend begins and how much of the tooth is actually contacted by the strike pin. The blue one has a very fine pin.

But, these are relatively inexpensive and will last the average person a very long time. I most often recommend a person get both if they have both full-sized saws and backsaws.

Take care, Mike

[Brick Breaker]

This good



http://www.taunton.com/FWN/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=24976


Brick Breaker cheers

[Schtoo]

That looks like it, except mine is a different shade of blue. Kind of hammered paint finish I think.

You are right Mike, it doesn't work well on coarser saws. The hammer tends to tweak the teeth, well, badly. Not sure how to describe it, but it doesn't seem happy to do it.

Provided I keep it away from the big rip I have with very hard teeth. Luckily I learned on the toe that the teeth break off really easy. I was young and foolish way back then though. I'd say a good 6 months ago...

I don't think I have seen the gold one recently, if at all. Seem to recall having seen it somewhere though, but I doubt it was here.

Didn't know there was a difference to be honest.


(BTW, these things really are not magnificent specimens. But they do work and are cheap and cheerful. A rare combination these days unfortunately...)

(BBTW, just noticed they are from here. Didn't even know. And it would seem that I paid too much for it too. ;) )

[MikeW]

And from another forum where I was answering similar questions this morning. The first was a response to the Somax's softness of alloy used in them. The second was about the numbers on the anvil. Note that they do not correspond to the number of TPI or PPI:

True. The downside is if one is sharpening a lot of saws, you will wear one out form gouging the alloy.

A good fix for that is to lightly file a flat with slightly dovetailed edges and inlay a piece of thin brass. I've had to do that on some vintage sets just to alter the depth. Works well.

But then again, I shouldn't be dragging a set across the teeth anyway. We sharpen, set, joint lightly and then sharpen again. Not for that reason, but at least it would mitigate the issue.

************
The numbering on the anvil has little relation to the number of actual teeth per inch/mm. The Somax fine set goes from too much to nothing or imperceptable.

************

Take care, Mike

[Driver]

Mike and Schtoo

Thanks, fellas. That looks like the go. As Schtoo says: cheap and cheerful! (Which is how I used to like my women - before I became a happily-married man, that is).

Col

[Clinton1]

I was wrong (and I'm admitting it)

My Spear and Jackson goes from 4 TPI to 12 TPI. I thought it was to 24 TPI.
Anyone wanna buy a saw set?