What is the best blade for cutting melamine?

[Rossluck]

Can anyone advise me on what type of saw blade to buy to cut melamine. I have a three-phase radial arm saw that'll take the blade from my 9 and a quarter inch Makita saw (this has heaps of depth for cutting sheet, has more torque than the 12 inch blades the saw mormally takes).

Needless to say, what I'm trying to avoid is the chipping at the edges of the melamine.

On anothe topic, does anyone else feel that yesterday's cricket test win in South Africa ease the pain of that one day final?

[Harry72]

without a panel saw with a scribing blade your better of rough cutting a few mm oversize then trimming back with a router and straight edge

[Auld Bassoon]

Broadly I agree with what Harry72 has said, but you can achieve a decent edge by scribing with a sharp marking knife and a straigh edge first. The trick is aligning the saw blade to the scribed mark exactly on its edge.

If you have an edge trimmer (eg the small Makita) then that will likely be your best option.

[journeyman Mick]

Ross,
You can get a reasonable cut (minimal to no chipping on one face and minor chipping on the other) if you use a triple chip blade. As you're using a radial arm, I would reccomend an aluminium cutting blade (negative rake) as it will minimise the blade wanting to climb through the work. I used to use a 10" 100 tooth ally blade on my triton WC and get acceptable results. I have a feeling though, that results may not be as good on a RAS as the blade enters the board at more of a tangent which means that the melamine surface is not as well supported by the stock behind/below it. Nowadays I have a full size panel saw with a seperately powerd scriber and I still need to keep on the ball (keep blades sharp & double check setup when changing over blades) in order to avoid chip out. It's very unforgiving material.

Mick

[Mick C.]

What u need is a Hollow Groud blade, like the CMT 287 series or 287-060-12M i have one of these and found it to cut as good as a panel saw with a scribing blade if u use a slow feed rate, or if u go a lil quicker and have the blade a bit lower in the table, the quality of the cut is great! It's really hard to appreciate how good the finish is without actually using one!

[Rossluck]

Thanks for the advice. You've solved my problem in that I'll try the blades you've suggested depending on price, and if I fail do have a trimmer. I dropped into Bunnies and looked at a Triton triple cut blade for around $100, but it was the smaller (7 and a quarter inch?) size.

Thanks again, I appreciate it. http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

[niki]

Hi Rossluck

Sorry for the late reply.

You can achieve very good quality of cut by passing the plate twice on the table saw or with the circular saw.
For the first pass, set the blade height to 1 mm or less, just to score.
For the second pass set the blade to fully cut the melamine (your choice of height)

Another method that I use, if the plate is not too big is; to make the first pass, with the blade height at 1 mm or less, in REVERSE, which means, starting from the far side and PULLING the plate toward me, but, if you think that its unsafe please don’t do it.

I do it all the time with the table saw and the circular saw with very good results.

Please look at the post
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=30120
You will see on the pic that I’m scoring the melamine for the first pass.

Hope it helps
niki

[Rossluck]

Hi Rossluck

Sorry for the late reply.

You can achieve very good quality of cut by passing the plate twice on the table saw or with the circular saw.
For the first pass, set the blade height to 1 mm or less, just to score.
For the second pass set the blade to fully cut the melamine (your choice of height)

Another method that I use, if the plate is not too big is; to make the first pass, with the blade height at 1 mm or less, in REVERSE, which means, starting from the far side and PULLING the plate toward me, but, if you think that its unsafe please don’t do it.

I do it all the time with the table saw and the circular saw with very good results.

Please look at the post
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=30120
You will see on the pic that I’m scoring the melamine for the first pass.

Hope it helps
niki


Thanks Niki. I have this three phase saw and bench that was used for cutting polycarbonate sheeting, so your idea will work well. I've been meaning to reply to your post but ... time .... :D

[Dean]

Thanks for the advice. You've solved my problem in that I'll try the blades you've suggested depending on price, and if I fail do have a trimmer. I dropped into Bunnies and looked at a Triton triple cut blade for around $100, but it was the smaller (7 and a quarter inch?) size.

Thanks again, I appreciate it. http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

You can get a 10 inch, 60 tooth Irwin trade quality triple chip blade from Glenfords or maybe Trade Tools for about $100.

[gerhard]

Hi Rossluck,

as melamine is reinforced resin material and is a such denser than hardwood, sawing can rather be seen as scraping than cutting. The teeth shave off curls like they would in metal, only melamine will show no nice curls but only bits and lost of dust. The principle is the same however, if you look at circular saws for cutting metals, you will go in the right direction. Your three phase machine means that it had an induction motor and that the rpm will be around 3000. That's great. Brush motor driven machines often reach 4000 to 5000 rpm and there will be greater risk of burning workpiece material and sawblade teeth. The blade must be tungsten carbide tipped, with as many teeth as you can afford, in order to obtain clean results with least chance of chipping. The "visible" side of the workpiece material must be the side where the teeth of the circular blade protrude, for the side which stands the most chance of being chipped is the side where the teeth leave the material. So on a saw table with the motor and the axle underneath, the visible workpiece side would be the up side and the side risking the most chipping would be the side in contact with the table. In a radial arm saw the "clean" side will be the side you can't see during the cutting.
As a rule there must be at least 3 teeth at the same time in the material strength. So if you cut material of 12 mm thickness (1/2") the teeth should be no further apart from each other than 4 mms (1/6"). Coarser is not recommended, finer is better. The teeth should be kept as sharp as possible and blades should be kept apart for separate dedicated materials (changing from wood to metal to resin with a single blade should be avoided, it will compromise the results in all different materials, whereas the finish will remain lasting much longer if the blade remains dedicated to one particular material). I have learned that buying expensive blades on eBay at a bargain can't compete with having the blades resharpened by specialist shops. Once you convinced a seller abroad how to pack a blade properly and bash- and drop-proof, you can achieve amazing deals on eBay. eBay Germany has especially good value (i already bought around 260 tools and accesories there).
The shape of the teeth is important too. The teeth should not be set sideways, from the sides they have to be smooth in a straight line. Their upper cutting profile is also important, often there is an edge (with one tooth having its sharpest edge in the upper left corner, the next one right, left, right, etc.). But there is also a special shape (forgot the proper jargon name, if a leave this lead now for Google, my text will be gone). One tooth on such a blade has a front sight profile with two 90 degree cutting edges, the next tooth has two beveled edges left and right. These are special blades with tantalite teeth, specially designed for cutting metal in a very clean way. These perform well in resins like melamine as well.

Some other tips to prevent chipping. The teeth should protrude no further from the material surface than half their length. On a saw table you should barely be able to see them, let alone the blade itself. The saw line should generate itself like a vapour trail from a plane at high altitude, with very little of the actual blade visible. Some people take little care in adjusting the saw depth; in those cases often almost half the blade is visible protruding from some thin plate material. This is risky, because the teeth dive into the material almost frontal and with little tangent, therefore exerting maximum breaking force upon material exit. On the turning-up side, the teeth meet the material left and right of the already made cut, with the chance of lifting the material or cutting into it from underneath for a second time if anything on the machine should be slightly out of line.

Saw very steadily, don't push with force. Let the teeth shave their way. One finger to pull the machine through will suffice (but don't be too softly either, because friction heat will then burn the material and the teeth). Chipping is often caused by the exertion of pressure when the tooth leaves the last bit of material, breaking it off rather than cutting it cleanly. Chisels in pine or beech or meranti serve as nice examples for breaking of splinters at the end-of-cut when the force and impatience were too great. Support the material as well and evenly as possible, to make the cut itself tension free all the way up to the point where the two pieces are entirely separated. Further make sure that the cut is exactly in line with the blade direction. So either the guides on a sawing table and even moreso on an arm saw, must be straight and preciese and on 90 degrees on every aspect. The blade axle must have no sideplay or bearing play. Also take care of very good dust extraction and observe that no debris gets under the supporting surfaces to compromise results. You should be okay then and get very nice clean cuts.

Lots of success!

gerhard

[BobL]

I've had great success with my 100 tooth triple chip blade on melamine. In fact I like the clean cut that blade does so much I like using it to cut nearly everything except full on ripping, although I agree with gerhard that you should avoid mixing blades where possible. The triple chipper is quite slow but you just have to take it easy and it leaves wonderfully smooth cuts in hardwoods like acacias etc. It's also a relatively quiet cutting blade as well.

[gerhard]

Hi Ross,

i read my post again after i submitted it and when reading the reaction of Journeyman Mick, i thought: "i've got it wrong, Ross has got a radial, so it hinges and touches the material from above". I thought of a combined radial/sliding arm type when i wrote my advice, and such a machine can be compared with a saw table, since the saw blade of a slider can be pulled or pushed through the material. With the blade touching from above and diving in downward, the matter is not like i described in the previous post, but somewhat else. The clean side with the least chance of splintering is the up-side this time. The arm and blade must be lowered with utmost care, any sideway force must be avoided. Mick's advice regarding the blade choice and the result to be expected, is spot on, it's exactly as he says.

The blade type with the special teeth shape is made by Festool and is called a trapezium (trapezoid) tooth blade. DeWalt may offer a similar design as well. A Hitachi blade with titanium tantalite teeth might be worth investigating as well, those are mounted on their metal cut-off saws. But i've seen some other sound suggestions in member's reactions, too.

Greetings

Gerhard

[Master Splinter]

I've had surprisingly good results with a 90 tooth blade and applying masking tape or packaging tape over the line before cutting - it gives the brittle melamine just a bit more chance to hold on. (also good for protecting laminate benchtops from marking when you jigsaw the sink cutout)

I know that I have a good edge when I manage to cut myself on it when I run my hand over it. (gee I hate doing that, more painful than a paper cut!!)

And if worst comes to worst and I do get a chip, I use some epoxy with white filler in it to hide it! (I must try the white timbermate filler one day)

But I've noticed that nothing seems to work all that well on the really cheap melamine board that comes from China...but what do you expect!