Allergic to CA?

[CameronPotter]

Hi Guys,

I would be interested to know if anyone here has a CA allergy. I have been unwell for ages now and I was looking around trying to find what it might be... Then yesterday I was beginning to feel better - went out to the shed and glued up a whole heap of blanks. No problem at all while I was out there, but a few hours later I felt awful.

Does anyone know if it might be the CA, or the accelerator? If so I will need to avoid this (it is respiratory problems I get). I can actually get it all over my hands without a problem, but I have been getting a lot of chest problems.

Does this sound familiar?

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Cheers

Cam

[Ian007]

Hi Cam,

I would not be surprised if you are on the money there, while I have not had this problem myself this stuff stinks and it just cant be good for you can it.

I wonder if you tried some tightbond poly for your pen blanks if that would help.

I have used this with good results it does take longer as in you need to let it go off and then set.

I drill blank as per the norm, I used a cotton bud to apply a small amount of water to the inside of the blank ( it needs a little water content to make the glue go off) then apply glue to the brass inserts put them into the blank place on the drying rack and go back the next day jobs done.

Or you could try to use a good quality face mask for fumes with the correct filter cartridge.

Cheers Ian:)

[CameronPotter]

Thanks mate,

I might try to get some Titebond - can you get it at any hardware store or only specialty places?

As it was, I was actually gluing up the dymondwood blanks that I will turn tonight.

Hopefully I will post piccies tomorrow (or tonight) if all goes well.

I had one blow out, but not bad and I saved JUST enough to glue in brass tube. I have also extended the front tubes using Euro style long tubes and I am going to turn them as pseudo-Euros.

Cam

[journeyman Mick]

Cameron,
Cyanoacrylate is the same as/similar to the hardener used in a lot of the 2 pack paints. These paints must be applied in a proper booth and positive pressure breathing apparatus must be worn. It's obviously really nasty stuff, I've been told that cyanide-like gases are given off. Beware!:eek:

Mick

[bsrlee]

CA glue releases Cyanide gas as it cures, so it is possible to get cyanide poisoning if you use lots of it and/or work in poorly ventilated areas. Cyanide poisoning at less than leathal levels displays symptoms like you describe, and will re-occurr on exposure for some years.

A friend used to work in a gold mine assay office but had to give it up due to long term low level exposure, he still has some heath problems, now he works in IT:D

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

:eek: No wonder I don't like using the stuff!

[Caveman]

:eek: No wonder I don't like using the stuff!

Ditto - nasty stuff. Recently turned a bowl out of an ancient olive fencepost that required a fair bit of CA. When it came to sanding, the CA immediately gave off fumes that stung the eyes like a spitting cobra (DAMHIKT)! (I was wearing a dust mask and a simple face sheild). I had to immediatly give my eyes an eye bath. No adverse effects other than damn sore eyes for half an hour os so. (Good arguement for a full facesheild).

[BobL]

About 6 years ago I was resurfacing our kitchen benchtops using two pack poly. I started the job around 8 pm in the evening and almost immediately the paint brush started shedding the odd hair, dropping more and more hairs as I proceeded. As it kept dropping hairs I tried to pick/wipe them up using my little finger but the plastic gloves I was wearing were too slippery to grab the hairs so I took my left hand glove off to pick them up with my fingers. Within 5 minutes I noticed a slight tingling sensation in my fingers which became more intense even after I finished the job and cleaned up. By then the fingers on my right hand and lips and tongue all started tingling and I felt a little nauseated. By now it was 11 pm and I jumped on the web to look up the suppliers MSDS where I confirmed I had indeed begun to poison myself although I was unlikely to die.

The other time I have had similar sensations to these is when preparing really hot chillies. I mean seriously hot! Like left the chillies wrapped in a double plastic bag on the kitchen bench for a few days and the capsicum gas penetrated the bag and permanently browned the 2 pack poly on the bench top! I cut a dozen of these chillies up for a curry and within 5 minutes of doing this I got the finger tingles. Then when eating the curry I got the full lips and tongue tingle, Plus a big tingle at the other end the next day

I started to get a similar effect in a restaurant in Beijing which served this dish consisting of about 25% solid chillies. Interestingly a local showed me how to negate this effect by drinking their 60% proof rice whiskey while consuming the chillies. It was probably just a numbing effect but there was also not much afterburn the next day but the accompanying hangover was by no means worth it.

[CameronPotter]

Thanks fellas.

Off to the store to get a gas mask then.

I will also try to avoid it, but sometimes it is simply the best glue there is...

Cheers

Cam

[chrisp]

Cam,

Get hold of the MSDS and read up on the PPE recommendations. I woud advise you to find out exactly what the hazard is so that you can use the correct respirator and cartridges.

Chris

[CameronPotter]

Will do Chris.

Also, just to clarify guys, the Triton Respirator is no good on gases, so I need a different mask for gases (such as those given off by CA)... BUT once the CA is set, I should be able to turn the wood and glue using the Triton Respirator as by that stage it is only the dust that I need to worry about... Is that correct?

Cheers

Cam

ps I have never had a problem with glue on my hands - sometimes it feels hot, but that is only the reaction of the glue... ie it is real heat, not my bodies reaction. That being said, after reading what you guys have said here, I might be a touch more careful in the future.
:o

[chrisp]

Cameron,

A MSDS on "Supa Glue" suggests the Relative Humidity (RH) plays a part in how irritating the vapor is. The MSDS suggests using a humidifier to bring the RH to above 55%. Apparently the irritation mainly occurs in dry atmosphere.

Regarding the Triton respirator, I suggest you check what standards it complies with. I understand from other disussion that it dosen't comply with any recognised OHS standards(?)

Chris

[CameronPotter]

Ahhh. Now we are getting technical...

My lungs are weak (from very early childhood chest infections - bloody tropics) and I suspect this is why I have troubles. Hobart is usually already quite humid.

As for the respirator - it stops dust. I was more meaning that once the CA has off-gased, it should only be the dust that I need worry about and I think that the Triton is fine for that... But I wanted opinions. As for OH&S, well if the respirator doesn't comply, that is a shame, but it has made a HUGE difference to my health after a particularly dusty time in the shed...

Cam

[chrisp]

Cam,

If you are already a bit down on lungs, then you should be extra careful with your choice of respirator. You owe it to yourself to look after your lungs the best you can. Have you read the stuff Bill Pentz (spelling?) has written on dust control? It is well worth reading and considering as it is the smaller dust particles that are of the most concern.

Chris

[CameronPotter]

Never heard of Bill Pentz... I might look that up.

As for best protection, I bought the Triton as it didn't fog up - everything else did (and I wasn't in able to find a Trend Airshield locally). I have tried several respirators in the past that caused my saftey goggles to fog up (and several safety goggles too). In the end I wasn't willing to risk not being able to see.

I will look up Bill Pentz though.

Cam

[Paul B]

I'm allegic to it. I can't even open a bottle of the stuff these days without paying dearly for it.

It effects me differently to you, I get a runny nose about six hours after exposure, I mean really really runny. I've gone through a box of tissues in about four hours, and have to sleep with them stuffed up my nose. It's not pretty. Then I have flu like symptoms for about three or four days afterwards.

It's bloody nasty stuff.

[CameronPotter]

...I get a runny nose about six hours after exposure, I mean really really runny. I've gone through a box of tissues in about four hours, and have to sleep with them stuffed up my nose. It's not pretty. Then I have flu like symptoms for about three or four days afterwards.

It's bloody nasty stuff.

Actually, that is almost identical...

I am VERY glad that I sorted out what it was. I had blamed all kinds of other things as it only happened AFTER I had left the shed. Everyone was blaming the woodworking but I told them that was silly because I couldn't see the correlation, but now I can (shhhh - don't tell them or they will tease me about it for years...)

Cam

[bsrlee]

2 thoughts:

Firstly, I'd be careful when working with wood that has had a large quantity of CA soaked into it - there could still be either un-reacted CA or by-products like cyanide compounds still trapped in the wood that will be released when you cut into them.

Secondly, the standard Triton helmet comes with bog standard dust filters. If you want to use it in an environment with other goodies in it, like paint, solvents or 'interesting' gasses, then you need to fit a different set of filter cartridges inside the orange box. Cyanide should be no special problem, as some of the 2 pack auto paints also outgas cyanide gasses when applied, so standard sized filters rated for such use are made and hopefully stocked.

[CameronPotter]

Thanks mate, but I don't think that the Triton Helmet works for gases - ie it is dust tight, but not gas tight...

Cheers

Cam

[Iain]

Dentists used to use a product call aron alpha (sp), similar characteristics to CA but without the side effects (It was used for sticking broken teeth back together).
Wander into your medical supply house in Hobart (there is one, just can't remember what it's called) and see if they have any.
Being a medical product though I doubt it will bear the same price tag as CA.

[CameronPotter]

Great idea.

What about accelerator? I assume that the accelerator would be toxic as well - although maybe this medical one has its own.

Cheers

Cam

[jaspr]

Thanks mate, but I don't think that the Triton Helmet works for gases - ie it is dust tight, but not gas tight...

Cheers

Cam

You might be right - but, the Triton works by creating a positive pressure - that's what should keep the dust and the gas out - as long as the filters on the intake take out the gas. The standards ones won't, but replacements that do, may be available.

jas

[CameronPotter]

Interesting idea...

It might work, but then I have a gas mask now so I think that I will stick to that.

Cam

[Markw]

Cameron
Check your MSDS, CA glues don't necessarily give off a cyanide gas (no such thing) but maybe a derivative of ie hydrogen cyanide or something similar. You need to be very specific as many of these chemicals in this group cannot be adequately controlled by use of a "gas" type respirator cartridge which relys solely on absorption of the chemical by way of an actvated carbon component. You can't filter out a gas like you can with a dust particle.

The Triton respirator whilst adeqate for dust particles, I dont believe is capable of use with other contaminants - no alternative cartridges available. If you are sentitive to this type of gas then abstination or supplied air equipment may be your only options.

[CameronPotter]

Thanks.

I will check up on this. I won't be using the triton for the gas work anyway - however, it does take standard cigweld or protector filter inserts.

As for what filter I got, it was the pesticide grade filter and it seems to be able to filter out what is required. I will give it a go and if I get sick - I will know that CA is not on my list of useable tools...

[Paul B]

I should have also said that I had the same reaction when I wore an appropriate respirator. Getting the fumes in my eyes seems to have the same effect as breathing the crap in. Or maybe it's not about breathing it in at all, might just be absorbing it through the mucous membranes around my eyes.

Oh, and I ran across a fellow over in the states who gets the exact same reaction to CA.

[CameronPotter]

Ahhh. I see. I haven't tried the respirator yet so it may not work for me either. I'll give it a go and give up if it doesn't work this time.

Cheers

Cam

[CameronPotter]

Tried the respirator and it worked. Yay!

I feel OK today. That said, it is still nasty stuff which I will avoid where possible now.

Cam

[kiwigeo]

Dentists used to use a product call aron alpha (sp), similar characteristics to CA but without the side effects (It was used for sticking broken teeth back together).
Wander into your medical supply house in Hobart (there is one, just can't remember what it's called) and see if they have any.
Being a medical product though I doubt it will bear the same price tag as CA.

Someone once told me Cyano glue was originally developed for surgical use during the Vietnam war.

[Iain]

Pretty sure it was around before that.